Bupe *New Suboxone film * official thread*

[Tommyboy]

Lol I totally agree. So funny too. I mean what, suboxone strips are somehow not dangerous for children?

Oh definitely not. Its not like its even easier for a child to dose with a strip that dissolves in a fraction of the time....

Well it's a lot harder for a child to open up the packaging for a strip then it is for them to open a pill bottle. Seriously, even I have a very hard time opening up the packaging for the strips. I need a scissor if I'm gong to be able to open it without having to go to town on it with my teeth.

 

[Znegative]

As research would show, the lower the buprenorphine dose, the better effects the drug has on the body; chronic pain, suboxone maintenance etc.. I keep reading that the ceiling effect of bupe is 32 mg and that buprenorphine's antagonist effects start to show when ppl try to dose too high. The ceiling effect I have to agree on (and ive even heard its more like 20-24mg). But this "less is more" theory I think is more applied to the pain relieving aspects of bupe. I;m sorry but every time i do a 2 mg shot followed by another and another I just feel better and better and betterrrr zzzzzzz.....huh? what? Anyways this could be due to my high metabolism and high tolerance fore opiates. Also those receptors sometimes take a while for all the bupe molecules to fill them all up. Therefore until they are full and flooded, then u will maybe start to antagonize" bupe's buzz. Anyways until I get some some feedback I'd have to say heck NO to the suboxone films. Subutex(pure Buprenorhphine Hcl) not only can you get totally loaded but theres no naloxone in them to give u a headache and all that scissor cutting and film cutting. Plus subutex offers a generic & my co-pay for generics is $10. My co-pay for brand names is same as paying cash and these STUPID films are $7+ per 8mg strip. 30 strips cost me $217.

I don't know, I hear you, and I've known others who have claimed that Subutex provides an actual 'high' which Suboxone cannot, via intravenous injection. However, I've shot them both, and I honestly can't say that I noticed a difference at all.

Also, I firmly do believe that less is more with buprenorphine. The reason why you don't get higher off of shooting a lower dose right now, is because your body is used to multiple 2mg injections it sounds like. If you want to truly experience what everyone else talks about when they say low dose Bupe causes more euphoria, than begin to cut down your doses. Instead of doing your usual 2mg injections, do 1mg injections. After about two days you'll adjust to this new dose, and I guarantee it will feel even better. I got the best results out of IV buprenorphine when I was injecting .2mg/shot. It took a while to taper down, but the effects were significantly better than the 2mg shots I used to do.

Also, I personally don't believe that Buprenorphine's ceiling effect is anywhere near 32mg. IME, taking more Suboxone/Subutex when you've already consumed 8mg is pointless, and that the agonist effects probably plateau at an even lower dose (like 2-4mg). Also, I'm throwing these numbers out relative to sublingual administration. If you're injecting, the ceiling effect is 2mg MAX, though I think it's probably closer to 1mg.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

However, I've shot them both, and I honestly can't say that I noticed a difference at all.

^ same. Suboxone and Subutex at the same dosage meant the same effect for me.

 

[Znegative]

^I do wonder though, because both of us were shooting microgram dosages, and every time I've heard someone claim they get more of a high off of subutex, they are injecting over 1mg at a time...

 

[cire113]

Man FUCK RB and there bull shit nalaxone scare tactics..

I Just saw my Sub dr. Today.. I Lost my insurance so i used to get 90 films for 50$.. now 90 films is $750... Still i take 8mg a day and its only 8$ a day much cheaper than my real addiction but still annoying none the less.. thats almost 1,000 a month plus the drs visit!

Whats more annoying is during my visit witih my Sub dr he had 4 other addiction specialists sitting in... I basically owned there asses and told them all the truth about Suboxone that they obviously didnt know shit .. I swear to god I knew more than 5 addiction specialists combined about Sub; It was really embarrassing for them..

Ofcourse they didnt believe me; But the really couldnt argue or counter any of my points about buprenorphine and binding affinity over nalaxone; I even told them I know people that have shot up suboxone and the nalaxone is useless

Basically 99% of Dr's are scared shitless to perscribe subutex because they really do think its more abusable then suboxone; RB has told them specifically not to perscribe it...

Pathetic... But honestly 8$ a day aint that bad im just spoiled..

Im gonna definetly have to taper down to 4mg a day max

 

[DooMMooD]

Well it's a lot harder for a child to open up the packaging for a strip then it is for them to open a pill bottle. Seriously, even I have a very hard time opening up the packaging for the strips. I need a scissor if I'm gong to be able to open it without having to go to town on it with my teeth.

Really? I have 0 problems. I use a scissor for convenience, because I use it to cut my strip in half. But whenever I wanna open the package without them its easy as pie.

You know the trick right? You fold the edge along that dotted line, THEN pull down the little piece. No teeth necessary!


Also about the subutex, my sub doc actually prescribes subutex to people who are allergic to ingredients in the suboxone. Now yes he is way less willing to do so, but theres somewhat reasonable explanations for that. My doc also would consider switching me over to subutex if my insurance ran out, on the virtue of it being generic and thus much cheaper.

RB partially funds sub docs and clinics, meaning they are somewhat responsible for allowing me to even go to one. Secondly, theyre basically the same thing, so if the cost is also the same, theres really no incentive to prescribe subutex over suboxone, or vice versa. W/e the doc is more comfortable with they'll prescribe. Example: in detox my docs ONLY gave out subutex. NOT suboxone. So I guess its just a matter of where you go. I guess if your doc flat out refuses to prescribe subutex for ANY reason, that is a bit more questionable.

I guess I"m just lucky.

Considering suboxone allows my clinic to stay open, reduces diversion SOMEWHAT (by no means I am claiming it to be anywhere near the reduction RB touts, but having bar codes on each wrapper does help even minutely), and the strips are easier for me to take as they dissolve much faster? Its meh to me.

 

[Znegative]

^thats how I felt when I had insurance, but when I no longer had my suboxone covered, and my doctor refused to prescribe me generic buprenorphine instea, I was fucking pissed because I printed out all these sources claiming the Naloxone didn't do squat. The thing was, my Suboxone doctor also knew that I had 'claimed' to have injected the Suboxone in the past (which she couldn't believe), but at the time I hadn't injected my subs, or taken them any way other than sublingual in the longest time and I honestly think she did believe me. Even my mother called her up begging for her to switch me to Subutex, but she would not yield.

Obviously (and it makes sense to a degree), my doctor probably believed, that although I was clean at the time (attending an outpatient, doing toxicology's, the whole nine yards), that prescribing Subutex might cause me to break down and pull put the old spoon and syringe again. What she didn't consider though, was that due to costs, I ended up tapering down to 1mg/day in order to make my scripts last as long as possible, and in doing so, I was no longer on a blocking dosage, and in result, just the fact that I knew I could get high, made my cravings more and more intense. I'm not going to blame my relapse on that decision, but it did play a role, as I was perfectly comfortable originally at 6-8mg/day.

 

[DooMMooD]

Oh I'm in total agreement there. Thats why I said if your doc refuses to in any scenario its more questionable. I guess find a doc that isn't as big of a schmuck would be the only solution, hah.

My doc would prescribe it to me if I NEEDED that, and he does prescribe it to others who do. In detox I was only able to get 'tex.

My point I guess is that every not doc out there is against Subutex and brainwashed by RB. Which is what cire said. Some actually know their shit. Once again I guess I'm very fortunate.

 

[Mass08]

What did shooting suboxone feel like?

 

[Znegative]

Yeah man, that is cool that your doctor is willing to work things out if something comes up. The strange thing was that my doctor was pretty reasonable as well. She prescribed my clonazepam when she usually never writes benzo scripts for her suboxone patients unless they really do struggle with anxiety and benzo's do improver their quality of life (and even then, she will take some time to think about it, not just hand out the script). She also even tried to help me out by contacting her R&B rep. To see if I could get some type of financial break (which I was refused), so the whole thing was very odd. When it comes to Subutex and ADD meds, my (old) sub doctor would rather die than even give me a script for fuckin' Modafinil!

 

[Znegative]

What did shooting suboxone feel like?

It all depends.
If you are already taking suboxone at high dosages (8mg and up), than you will not get anything from injecting your suboxone. However, if you are not on suboxone maintenance, or if you are but on a low dose (4mg and under), you can shoot your suboxone and get some type of effect out of it that is actually noticeable.

For me, IV suboxone was really only worthwhile when I had tapered myself down to 4mg sublingually and then started to IV .5mg shots 2x/day. At that point it was basically not very different from sniffing or taking it sublingually, only it hit me faster (you feel part of it immediately, but it peaks really in around 2-5 minutes). However, once I got down to doing .1-.2mg (or 1-200microgram) shots, I felt a lot more euphoria from it, and I even got that dope taste in my mouth after an injection. I wouldn't say Bupe gives an intense rush, but there is a rush there, its just takes a little longer to hit than other opiates. All in all, I think plugging suboxone/Subutex is vastly superior as it gives the same clean effect, but it lasts twice as long (as long as sublingual).

Also, the reason that people IV such small doses of suboxone (or rather, why they should) is because IV is so much stronger than nearly every other ROA (by at least 50%, and its 70% stronger than SL) asides from intramuscular injections (which I wouldn't recomend). So injecting .5mg is like taking 2mg sublingual, and injecting 2mg is like taking 6-8mg sublingually. There are other factors at place that make it hard to really give you an exact equipotent dose when switching from SL to IV (such as duration-IV Bupe has a much shorter duration than sublingual administration, as intravenous infusions of buprenorphine result in the drug reaching its peak plasma concentrations nearly immediately, and therefor your body begins to metabolize the drug immediately as well. With sublingual administration,oral, or insufflation, it can take up to 90 minutes or longer to reach this peak state, making the duration significantly longer), but when it comes down to it, the BA for the different Routes of Administration of Buprenorphine listed here on Bluelight are correct.

Seriously though, if you're thinking about injecting your suboxone, don't, plug it instead, I guarantee you will enjoy it more.

 

[Mass08]

I don't take suboxone. Im 60 days clean from all opiates and currently on naltrexone therapy. I was just very curious because one time when I was dope sick I considered shooting it and googled shooting suboxone and every site said don't do it, so just was curious if there was any euphoria or if it just stopped sickness. Thanks for ur answer! Very interesting.

 

[cire113]

Well there is unforuntetly lots of misinformation out there with Suboxone and alot of it is purposely done by RB.

So they ban the tablets because children can access them? are you kidding me? You know how many other pills are smaller and more accessible for children to overdose on easily? Im speaking narcotics.. I mean hell they have a fucking fentanyl lollipop ACTIQ; but that is low abuse no child would ever eat a lollipop compared to suboxone tablets;

Might as well put Advil and tylenol into strips; All in all its just RB's smart way of doing business to make more money off the patent of Strips since suboxone generic was coming out..

As far as my Dr is concerned... Yeah it really is weird that he would just flat out deny to prescribe Subutex; I really feel like is getting kickbacks or free gifts from RB; the fucking reps call him all the time supposedly.. and its weird he didnt say he wouldnt prescribe it he said "Im not allowed to perscribe it"... Straight up..

Ive explained to him the a million times the Nalaxone did nothing; Apparently all he said to me was if you care about your life you will figure out a way to afford it; Really dick thing to say honestly.. I'm paying 800$ more a month I'm 28 unemployed grad student... Yuuuuppp no problem..

Another problem Ive seen down here regarding Sub dr's is alot of them wont tell you shit until you actually see them in person and pay first; The make you always pay before seeing the DR. I Tried to not pay today but he wouldnt even see me. Thats how it is down here in South Florida; My dr is also a pain management dr so he gives out oxy,opana, and tons of other shit to people all day long... So go figure... (he would never give to his addiction patients though)

I definitely am Hyper sensitive to nalaxone i noticed a big difference once i started to spit out my salvia a few years ago.. Every now randomly I might have to swallow it (like if some girl talks to me sporadically) and i have felt a noticeable increase in body dysphoria and side effects from swallowing 1-2mg of nalaxone...

Znegative that is an unfortunate situation; and I totally get you man; There is a HUGE difference from taking 1-2mgs versus 6-8mg; especially for blocking/cravings; I really believe that even if you use heaven forbid and its blocked by the Sub it totally doesnt fuck with your head as much as if you were on lower doses...

DooMMood
I guess you got really lucky your sub Dr. is cool; and for whatever reason my Dr is an idiot; He did give me $50 back for lecturing him and all the other Dr's about Suboxone and he did give me another free prescription(refill).. SO i walked out of there with 2 prescriptions of #90 for $100; But still thats bull shit; Yeah i just got 6 months worth of sub but its gonna cost me $1500 to fill em;

I called my local walgreens and apparently if you drop off a prescription you only have 6 attempts to pick up... Meaning you can pick up 10 films one day, 10 films another day, but after 6 pick ups the prescription is void and you forfeit the remaining strips... Lmao

 

[Tommyboy]

Really? I have 0 problems. I use a scissor for convenience, because I use it to cut my strip in half. But whenever I wanna open the package without them its easy as pie.

You know the trick right? You fold the edge along that dotted line, THEN pull down the little piece. No teeth necessary!

And you think a child would be able to do that easier than picking up a pill or taking one out of the bottle?

It's funny that you fold the package and cut the strip with the scissor, because I do the opposite. I find it a lot easier to split the doses by just folding the strip and tearing at the crease.

 

[DooMMooD]

No but a film strip out in the open is comparable to a tablet out in the open. If a parents negligent enough to leave the tablets out where a kid can easily get them (ie not in the bottle) i think its not too far fetched to assume they'd leave strips out all over too. I mean as we all know the pill bottles are "child proof" are they not? And if they're not then why are they advertised as such?

Furthermore though, when I open my strip wrapper I only take half. I put the other half back into the open wrapper. I keep it in a special spot, but its an open wrapper with half a suboxone sitting in it nonetheless.

Regardless of alllll that though, my point is: if youre negligent enough that your kids are PLAYING WITH YOUR BOTTLE OF SUBOXONE TABLETS, switching to strips probably isn't going to do that much more for you....

Who the fuck leaves their bottle of suboxone where their kids can get it? The same people that leave their box of strips where their kids can get them. Just think about it. Either you're smart and keep them out of reach of kids, regardless of strips/tabs, or youre not and you dont...

Don't get it twisted, I am in favor of the strips, but for other reasons. If they had come out and said "We're phasing out the tablets because theyre difficult to dose correctly (crumble) they are more easily diverted (even slightly), take less time to dissolve (significantly), and dont taste as "horrible" (scored as neutral! lol)", then I'd not say a word. But their reasons stink like shit. We all know realistically it's just a way to keep a generic from being released within a reasonable time frame.



Also regarding the scissors again: I do cut both pouch AND strip with scissors for the most part. Only time I fold the pouch over or tear the strip is when I dont have my mini 'drug' scissors. I also do fold the strip before I cut it, into however many sections. And I tear down that line (like you) when I dont have my scissors. But I dont want my dose to fluctuate too much especially as I get lower and lower. And, well, sometimes when you rip em you get a side thats slightlyyyyyyyy bigger/smaller. For me its much easier and simpler to take my mini scissors and just cut straight down the middle. It becomes infinitely easier when I'm not simply cutting a dose in half (ie when I need to measure 8th/16ths of a doses).

In short: the scissors are more precise and easier. Especially in preparing more than a days worth. I (almost) always use scissors to open the pouch AND cut, I was just saying that opening the pouch aint no thanggggg.

 

[marylandNoName]

Snorting sub has never done anything different for me than putting it under my tounge... neither get me high... do some of you guys who snort actually get a buzz of the sub? I just get a stuffed up nostril.

yea iv been on bupe for 8 years and have been able to catch a buzz for all 8, with the strips and the pills. and it actually does get me "high", kinda like codone does, every drug has its own specifics but basically its the same, u have a feeling of euphoria, elevated energy and motivation, mood modification, "nodding".. its still an opiate jus a partial agonist which means its --->HARDER<---- to OD so whoever reads this dont think u can jus take as much as u want without the possibility of it happening. thats really, REALLY weird that u dont get a different effect from putting it under your tongue than sniffin the pill... i dont understand that, but to be fair, iv been trying to figure out for a good while why either route would have a different effect and cant find much info on it. logically, it would make sense that if u ingest x mg of bupe into your body that it wouldnt b any different, but im pretty sure it has to do with bioavailability, ur body absorbs more intranasally than sublingually, pretty much anybody iv ever associated with says the same thing "the strips suck" they really do i wont even waste money on the strips anymore i get perc 5s to keep me well till the pills come back around. i kno your probably gonna b thinkin "this kids crazy" lol i dont blame u id probably feel the same way i never experienced it first hand, but i have many, many times, its about a 4 to 1 ratio for me at least, everybodys chemistry is a lil different. also iv noticed that sniffing the bupe works about twice as well as putting it under my tongue. iv often wondered if it was all in my head so i tried to keep the "experimenting" as accurate or clean or whatever u wanna call it as i could and i always got the same result, even using the pill i had to use about twice as much to get back to feeling normal from RLS jus starting to set in. again im not the only one that has noticed this, almost anybody iv ever talked to has said the same. the strips go for about half of what the pills do around here even in the city (baltimore) its rare to even find the strips everybody lets their doctors kno that the strips jus dont work for em and they have to take alot more and even then u still dont get the same feeling u do off the tablets, its really weird its like theres something missing out of the strips. or iv also read in a couple places that it has to do with the bioavailability or absorbtion of the naloxone, the full antagonist in suboxone.

 

[suboxy8]

Need to call your doc, had same expierience and was turned down by pharm. Doc called in the transfer to film and all is good. Plus Film much better... my opinion...

 

[Tommyboy]

No but a film strip out in the open is comparable to a tablet out in the open. If a parents negligent enough to leave the tablets out where a kid can easily get them (ie not in the bottle) i think its not too far fetched to assume they'd leave strips out all over too. I mean as we all know the pill bottles are "child proof" are they not? And if they're not then why are they advertised as such?

Furthermore though, when I open my strip wrapper I only take half. I put the other half back into the open wrapper. I keep it in a special spot, but its an open wrapper with half a suboxone sitting in it nonetheless.

Regardless of alllll that though, my point is: if youre negligent enough that your kids are PLAYING WITH YOUR BOTTLE OF SUBOXONE TABLETS, switching to strips probably isn't going to do that much more for you....

Who the fuck leaves their bottle of suboxone where their kids can get it? The same people that leave their box of strips where their kids can get them. Just think about it. Either you're smart and keep them out of reach of kids, regardless of strips/tabs, or youre not and you dont...

I think that most kids ingested them after finding them on the floor, so it was a matter of the parent accidentally dropping a pill and not seeing it. It's a lot harder to lose a strip that's in a package, although it's pretty easy to lose a piece of a strip once it's out of the packaging, but it's unlikely that a child would find that thin of a strip on the floor. A full strip wouldn't be as hard to find, but I think that most people that drop the strip already cut their dose off of it and took it, and then the rest of the strip probably fell when they went to put it away.

 

[tronrush]

etard--i have a question for you... i discovered that my boyfriend (who has had a bad opiate habit but trying to recover) is shooting his bupe. furthermore he is getting huge lumps in his arm. what should i do, its freaking me out and I dont know what to do. he is on the strips and im worried that hes going to suffer serious health consequences from shooting them.

 

[Znegative]

^I know that you're asking advice from someone else, but I wanted to respond too.

I honestly would be concerned too, as it sounds like not only is he shooting his suboxone, but even worse, he's missing his shots, which can lead to serious infections/abscesses, especially if he's just using a cotton to filter out the solution. In the sake of harm reduction, your boyfriend should be made aware of Micron Filters. While I'm sure that you'd prefer he just stop injecting the strips in general, you have to look at the situation realistically and realize that he might not do that right away, and if that happens, he would benifit greatly from these filters as he would at least be injecting a much safer solution (.2 microns can even filter out bacteria I'm fairly certain).

@MarylandNoName:
The absorption for each ROA of buprenorphine is roughly as follows:

Sublingual-30%
Insufflation/sniffing-50%
Rectal-54%
Intravenous-99-100%

So you're not just imagining it when it seems as though sniffing Bupe is stronger than taking it sublingually. Another reason that it packs more of a 'punch' (though I feel that term is somewhat of a stretch when referring to suboxone), is that in general, substances that are insufflated are absorbed into the blood stream quicker than substances which are taken orally or sublingually.