Neo-doves Part II

[3 to the 3]

Ended up taking a second SCD about 2 hours after first. I had a great time, and as has been reported in the UK these are like a cleaner, less edgy and less rushy version of the first SCs. A lot more clarity and heaps of confidence.

The peak is short-lived, maybe 45 mins, but the come up and the next hour or two after the peak are still fun. With the second drop came a second stronger peak, and a longer residual drop off.

I had trouble sleeping at 2am even though my first drop was at 5:15 and second at 7:15. 3mg of Valium wasn't enough for me this time either , I ended up waking bolt upright at 5am.

As with all the of these products, the extra energy leftover after the fun parts have finished can easily turn into anxiety and jaw clenching. But these weren't nearly as bad as the old ones for this IMO. Still MDMA is much easier to come off IMO.

One thing that sticks out is a marked increase in heart rate/ vasoconstriction. Until I took the Valium my heart rate was (far from dangerous) but significantly higher than with MDMA. (as a benchmark)

Next day has been fine, a little tired and continually thirsty, but no obvious mental pain.

As much as I liked the fiendishness and head fuck of the old SCs I prefer the new ones overall.

 

[cowlos]

Took 2 SCD's and 2 ND2's last night the feeling was definately only in the head; no euphoria but just an elevated mood and more chattiness. It was high that kept making me feel like it wasn't enough (hench why I took so many). Started feeling quite bad on the comedown so had 40 mg valium (stupid to take so much but with little diazepam experience I was oblivious) and one of the old SC's. Feeling very anxious, depressed and lethargic today and visibly trembling. I'm sure I went a bit overboard but I'm very apprehensive about taking these products again.

 

[cowlos]

2 days after the experience: Don't really want to leave my bed, feeling very aggressive and depressed, but better than yesterday.

Ended up throwing up halfway through yesterday and was able to eat which made me feel a lot better.

I have been having 10mg selegeline w/ phenylalanine which helps the depression but the agression remains.

It is possible that mixing the old range of neorganics with the new range has caused a bad reaction or that mixing different varieties of the new range has that effect or it could simply be that I did too much.

Hope no one else ends up with this feeling.

 

[madmick19]

well it sounds like your body has really been through the ringer or wash, just to summarise:

you took 2 x nd2 and 2x SCD- (some compounds that im not familiar with atm other than serotonergic and dopamanergic mimickers)
+
40mg valium
ontop of:
"..... Selegiline, also known as l-deprenyl, is an irreversible and (relatively) selective MAO-B inhibitor.


the zinberg model which talks about drug set and setting may be worthwhile you looking at for the range of influencing factors when on a substance but by enlarge (for alot of single substance comedowns)you will need to rest and wait it out But if it continues go to the doctor and let them know.

i would seriously consider resting up monitoring yourself, if it gets better---great make sure you eat- body doesnt particulalry like to eat itself to fix itself.

Moderation is the key- flushing a cocktail of uppers with a cocktail of downers maoi's has the potential for some really dangerous problems

 

[3 to the 3]

Apart from being tired for the next 24 hours or so, I had little other negative effects from the SCDs.

I personally think taking any more than 2 or 3 MAX of any of this range of products is asking for trouble.

People that are using a lot of amphetamines/MDMA should stay away from these. If you are not getting a good buzz out of one or two then don't bother. You will only use too much, and further increase your tolerance, and get terrible comedowns....

 

[bustabraincell]

Tried the new neodoves recently, mixed opinion...they definitley did not have the 'loved up buzz' that the original ones did....did not really 'come on ' and give you the buzz....which iwas a bit of a dissapointment. However there was no buzz to chase, which made them less 'moreish' which I found to be a hazard in the old ones. However, I always found it a gasp of relief when the last one was gone, cos then one was able to continue on normal life without wondering when to take the next... I have found that the originals, well one every 2.5 hours until they are gone, suited me fine, that would be about 36 hours, but who was counting,,,the new ones, well, myself and a friend went through an 18 pack in 24 hours, no sleep, and tied to wind them up with some woodrose seeds,...maybe not such a good idea, specially as we had some important jobs to do. So in a nutshell, there is not the magic in the new ones tha was in the original, much more speedy, not so lovey, at one stage was comparing them to duramine or dexxies.%)

 

[cowlos]

well it sounds like your body has really been through the ringer or wash, just to summarise:

you took 2 x nd2 and 2x SCD- (some compounds that im not familiar with atm other than serotonergic and dopamanergic mimickers)
+
40mg valium
ontop of:
"..... Selegiline, also known as l-deprenyl, is an irreversible and (relatively) selective MAO-B inhibitor.


the zinberg model which talks about drug set and setting may be worthwhile you looking at for the range of influencing factors when on a substance but by enlarge (for alot of single substance comedowns)you will need to rest and wait it out But if it continues go to the doctor and let them know.

i would seriously consider resting up monitoring yourself, if it gets better---great make sure you eat- body doesnt particulalry like to eat itself to fix itself.

Moderation is the key- flushing a cocktail of uppers with a cocktail of downers maoi's has the potential for some really dangerous problems

In defense of the cocktail, the selegeline was to increase mood the next day, well after the blood plasma levels of the ND2's and SCD's had reduced below any sort of intoxication levels and after I was already feeling shit. The valium was to comedown and although very maldosaged would not have lead to the extreme depression and aggressiveness I experienced.

I'm not sure how the zinberg model would affect the situation though; I was feeling quite good until I took the 40mg valium and had to immediately pass out straight after I had taken the capsule of original SC.

I am feeling fine now and no noticable difference from the day before I took the substances so I can be hasty and say no permanent effects were noted.

Because others have been fine with these the advice I can give is not to mix the old batch of neo's with the new batch.

 

[cowlos]

Apart from being tired for the next 24 hours or so, I had little other negative effects from the SCDs.

I personally think taking any more than 2 or 3 MAX of any of this range of products is asking for trouble.

People that are using a lot of amphetamines/MDMA should stay away from these. If you are not getting a good buzz out of one or two then don't bother. You will only use too much, and further increase your tolerance, and get terrible comedowns....

Exactly, and don't bring more than 2 or 3 out with you because you will very easily convince yourself that you will get a better high from taking more; you won't.

 

[phase_dancer]

In defense of the cocktail, the selegeline was to increase mood the next day, well after the blood plasma levels of the ND2's and SCD's had reduced below any sort of intoxication levels and after I was already feeling shit

Selegiline is a MAOB inhibitor at lower dosages, but at 10mg it certainly inhibits MAOA, the isoenzyme responsible for breaking down serotonin. The danger here - and it really is a danger - is that using drugs that affect the serotonin system with higher doses of selegiline may result in serotonin syndrome, which is a ghastly situation often leading to death. The older NDs and SCs definitely affected serotonin levels, which makes selegiline and any of these compounds potentially dangerous.

I have been having 10mg selegeline w/ phenylalanine which helps the depression but the agression remains.

The therapeutic potential of monoamine oxidase inhibitors by Moussa B. H. Youdim, Dale Edmondson and Keith F. Tipton, Nature Reviews - Neuroscience Vol 7, April 2006

...The low level of MAOA in serotonergic neurons suggests that glial cells might have an important role in degrading the neurotransmitter 5-HT. Indeed, inhibitors of MAOA but not MAOB have been shown to increase brain 5-HT and to have antidepressant activity....

...MAOB inhibitors are devoid of antidepressant activity and do not promote the cheese reaction unless administered at concentrations high enough to inhibit MAOA.

As can be seen from the above, antidepressant affects are only achieved at higher levels (10mg and up). So, a dose high enough to produce antidepressant activity must also inhibit MAOA, and therefore put you at risk if also using the drugs you've mentioned (valium excluded). Please try to avoid this combination. Phenethylamines including cathinone analogues shoud not be taken with anything over a few mg of selegiline.

 

[cowlos]

Selegiline is a MAOB inhibitor at lower dosages, but at 10mg it certainly inhibits MAOA, the isoenzyme responsible for breaking down serotonin. The danger here - and it really is a danger - is that using drugs that affect the serotonin system with higher doses of selegiline may result in serotonin syndrome, which is a ghastly situation often leading to death. The older NDs and SCs definitely affected serotonin levels, which makes selegiline and any of these compounds potentially dangerous.





As can be seen from the above, antidepressant affects are only achieved at higher levels (10mg and up). So, a dose high enough to produce antidepressant activity must also inhibit MAOA, and therefore put you at risk if also using the drugs you've mentioned (valium excluded). Please try to avoid this combination. Phenethylamines including cathinone analogues shoud not be taken with anything over a few mg of selegiline.

Shit... I was under the impression that selegeline's selectivity for MAOB remained at doses up to and including 10mg. Would you advise a 2 week abstinence from drugs which act on serotonin (such as MDMA) after a single 10 mg dosage?

However, in this situation the 10mg selegeline was taken the day AFTER the dosage of the neo products and AFTER I felt like absolute shit so I don't think it contributed to that feeling.

 

[phase_dancer]

Most literature reports selegiline to be MAOB selective at doses up to 20mg/day, however there has been suggestion this occurs at lower doses. Anectdotal accounts suggest it does occur at 10mg/day in some individuals, so I may have been a bit hasty in saying it definitely causes MAOAi. However, considering the possible consequences I'd say it's definitely worth being cautious.

Depending upon the actions and half lives of the newer neo products, taking it the next day could still present some problems. There are also some questions raised concerning preferential binding during metabolism where CYP isozymes may both be required for both metabolism of selegiline and some amphetamines/ beta keto analogues.

Would you advise a 2 week abstinence from drugs which act on serotonin (such as MDMA) after a single 10 mg dosage?

Personally I'd advise yes, but there's undoubtedly others who think otherwise. I know several people who have taken selegiline with drugs like MDMA, as a neuroprotective or because they are on a course of selegiline, but this is normally at small dosages ~5mg/day max.

 

[TranzE]

Just quickly, are the new Neo Doves still a blue capsule?
I noticed the new SC2 are half blue/half yellow capsules.

 

[bustabraincell]

just as quickly, yes. %)

 

[TranzE]

Ok so that means, SCD are yellow capsules.
Just posting so ppl are informed.

 

[3 to the 3]

Shit....

I thought the new SCD caps were white? High Spirits - Yellow & ND2 - Dark Blue.

 

[TranzE]

Actually your right mate.
High Spirits are yellow. I thought I had SCDs but they were High Spirits.
Sorry for the confusion.

 

[3 to the 3]

no worries.... that's a relief.

 

[bustabraincell]

And just quietly, NDIIs do make love making a bit of a joke....an enjoyable joke, but a joke none the less...

 

[3 to the 3]

Yeah, for me the SCDs were the least performance enhancing substance of all time... .. Whereas the old SCs caused marathon nastyness...

New SCDs are a cooler feeling though.

 

[tadfish]

So whats the thoughts on mixing new and old range?
did anyone try the range doron had before the first ND's SC etc. ??
wondering if anyone anywhere still selling those

whats everyone's thoughts for mixing piperazines with the new and old range

was thinking while in NZ friends going to try to mix MeOPP and mCPP with a few different ones. i am pretty sure that it was MeOPP that u could have alot of without serious side effects but wondering how they will combine with these drugs, if not solid answers idea or theorys