Need Advice, recently busted and turned informant (maybe)

CI's aren't even featured on that show "Dirty Jobs," WTF?!

zackkurt82 said:
I talked to a lawyer and he told me to cooperate. So I will go ahead and snitch. Dont give me this moral crap about snitching, you all would turn in a second if it meant avoiding jail time.
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8( Honestly, I think you'd be surprised. There may still be some honor among thieves in this day and age. Not everyone looks for the easy way out of bad situations. Jail time isn't that terrible compared living a life where you're constantly looking over your shoulder or feeling like a hypocrite. But, everyone is different. What's right for me might not be right for you, and whats right for you might not be right for me. That's the fun of being an individual. :\

I'm sorry the lawyer you contacted told you to cooperate. :eek: It's never a good idea to operate on the promise of freedom without some kind of legal and binding agreement made. The reason I say this is because once you do agree to cooperate, what's your guarantee that these officers are going to hold up their end of the deal? Cops are notorious for saying one thing and doing another. It's their JOB; It all boils down to the pursuit of justice. Think about the reasons why you're considering working with the police. Then make sure you've got some sort of insurance to protect your best interests once you produce the desired results.

NOTE: I'm NOT advocating snitching; I don't believe in it, and I've probably done enough time to substantiate that.

I was once in a situation like this myself, and my lawyer told me NOT to cooperate. :( He said that in his experience, you can never do enough to satisfy the vice cops and make it worthwhile - and his best advice to me was, for the kind of life that I've chosen to lead, it would be better to just do my time, and not have to worry about anything or get caught up in the bullshit of being an informant. He didn't delude me about having my name and personal information concealed from the individuals I was asked to help bring in. He said, it's all going to be disclosed a document called the "Notice of Discovery" where they list the individuals accusing said person of being guilty or what have you.

...Incidentally, that pharmacist you mentioned probably has enough resources to get a decent attorney and do everything he can to protect his livelihood and his stature in the community, so those documents will be readily available to him and his attorney, and quite possibly anyone else who has any idea as to how procuring public records works. 8o But again, you have to do what's right for you.

I assume you know what you're getting into by cooperating with these vice cops. I also assume you're prepared to handle whatever happens as a result of doing this, too. Don't kid yourself into thinking nobody will ever find out, or that you'll be able to sustain some kind of protection should there ever be any retaliation or other negative consequences of cooperating with these guys who want you to do their dirty work. Even cops hate snitches; They don't care about you or what happens to you, and they're certainly not your friends. They just care about making busts, quotas, and beefing up city/state conviction records.

Anyway, I wish you the best of luck no matter what you decide. I don't know what your personal situation is, but I do hope that you figure something out and that everything goes well for you. Be well, play it smart, and stay safe.
 
Well, the lawyer the OP talked to DOES have the OP's interests in mind. If his advice is to cooperate, then you should probably do so. Just be sure you raised all the possibilities, i.e. uncertainty about whether the police will follow through on the deal, and so forth, with the lawyer, so that you're clear on the situation. This isn't a complex legal problem, and so long as the lawyer you talked to has experience in criminal matters, and answered your questions in a satisfactory way, I think you can be confident in his advice.

Regarding some of the other posts... killing a potential witness in a criminal case is first-degree murder with special circumstances, meaning that it is a capital crime in any state with the death penalty, including California. Any individual who attempts to commit such an act, or conspires to commit such an act, or solicits anyone to commit such an act, has just elevated himself to an entirely new level of attention on law enforcement's radar screen. This would be a matter that goes to the heart of a functioning criminal justice system, and the resources and means deployed to punishing such an individual will be enormous. It does happen, and this is a possibility worth considering in the context of any given case, but it is an incredibly stupid move on the part of anyone facing prosecution.
 
maybe I read the OP wrong but I always thought that cops can't sell someone something and bust them. It would have to be the person who is selling the drugs to be caught?
 
Maybe just taking the charge will be less of a burden then being an informant. That shit could get you in trouble with people more dangerous then police and it will probably give you a guilty conscience.
 
zackkurt82 said:
I talked to a lawyer and he told me to cooperate. So I will go ahead and snitch. Dont give me this moral crap about snitching, you all would turn in a second if it meant avoiding jail time.
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Get a second opinion. As others have mentioned, there can be extremely bad ramifications if you snitch, and it is very possible to get diversion as Johnny1 mentioned if this is a first offense and you handle this in a respectful manner.

It is also not a guarantee that something in the courts - some technicality or misrepresentation somewhere along the line - will result in your receiving no jail time.

I'd hate for you to be in a situation where you were harmed because the overworked police assigned to protect you (which would significantly restrict your own freedom) failed to adequately do so. I highly suggest you get a second opinion from another attorney, maybe even a third.

I would not "turn in a second" to avoid jail time. I'm not "in the game" and never have been, but I know the rules and I think you do too. Easy time for a fairly minor offense, as others have mentioned, is far preferable to living a life of looking over your shoulder.

Good luck.
 
Wow that one post that was like a 20 page rant was more than I care to read. I will say again, I was busted for buying oxy from a cop. There was no police report, no arrest. They took my information, I agreed to come in the next day and speak with them. When I came in, I signed paper work forfeiting the money and also promising not to participate in any illegal activity as an informant. They then asked me to setup a date to meet with my usual dealer who i suspect is stealing from a pharmacy. At the meeting they will arrest him. They were not interested in me because they are a big time task force. Yes all I have is their word, but its better than nothing. I dont know if anyone has dealt with a cop before but saying stuff like "what is your badge number?", being difficult, and playing hard ball only makes the situation worse. Cooperation is always the best when dealing with police. From what I understand they dont want to waste their time in court for a small fish like me. They explained to me they go after crooked doctors who rip off millions of dollars from the govt in fraudulent scripts.
In response to the idea that my dealer is some noble martyr because he sells me drugs, last time I checked he received a lot of money for the drugs so I dont feel any sort of kindred attachment to him.
 
Well, if anything, I'd like to be kept up to date about this whole situation. I guess all we can do from here is wish you best of luck.
 
IMO, depending on the amount you bought, your crime doesn't sound major enough to land you in jail, you said you never even got a citation. I wouldn't cooperate at all, not to mention how its not even related to the case at all, unless you said that you knew somebody who sold oxys.
 
^ Well that's the thing: the narcs are always going to make it sound like you're going away for 30 years--even if their case is full of holes. That's why it was suggested the OP retain counsel.
 
zackkurt82 said:
Wow that one post that was like a 20 page rant was more than I care to read. I will say again, I was busted for buying oxy from a cop. There was no police report, no arrest. They took my information, I agreed to come in the next day and speak with them. When I came in, I signed paper work forfeiting the money and also promising not to participate in any illegal activity as an informant. They then asked me to setup a date to meet with my usual dealer who i suspect is stealing from a pharmacy. At the meeting they will arrest him. They were not interested in me because they are a big time task force. Yes all I have is their word, but its better than nothing. I dont know if anyone has dealt with a cop before but saying stuff like "what is your badge number?", being difficult, and playing hard ball only makes the situation worse. Cooperation is always the best when dealing with police. From what I understand they dont want to waste their time in court for a small fish like me. They explained to me they go after crooked doctors who rip off millions of dollars from the govt in fraudulent scripts.
In response to the idea that my dealer is some noble martyr because he sells me drugs, last time I checked he received a lot of money for the drugs so I dont feel any sort of kindred attachment to him.
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You stated in the OP that you needed the Oxy for when your insurance ran out. So what are you using these pills for - to sell, to get high for fun, or because you seriously need them?

How did you meet this cop that you tried to buy pills from? Were you introduced to him or did you just walk up to some random dude in the park?

I see a lot of holes in your story and judging by what you're about to do (or have already done) I'm not inclined to believe everything you say.
 
^ Jerry A., your points may be valid but we have to take our posters as they come in this forum. Judgmental posts are not allowed. So let's take the OP at his word. That said, the OP can feel free to answer some or all of your questions, so long as he does not provide information that could identify him.
 
I apologize in advance for making such a long post.​

Posted by zackkurt82:​
So I am asking not so much if I should snitch or not but more about whether people have got off with no legal trouble by cooperating in this manner. If i can put this behind me with just some money lost and a little bit of informant work that would be amazing.
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Your mind was made up when you made the original post. We can't change that now. As per your original post, we've shared personal experience and opinions about this matter and your stance has remained the same; You wish to "cooperate." Now, the only thing we can do is hope that everything works out for you the way the cops told you it would.

Posted by Johnny1: ​
...I think that what people are trying to tell you is... that your setting up the pharmacist for arrest doesn't automatically mean the police will keep their word unless there is an agreement in writing that a lawyer you hire has checked out.
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***Side Note: Incidentally, thanks for posting this Johnny1. I believe that what you and I are both saying about this aspect of cooperating with law enforcement is quite valid.

Furthermore, I don't think that making sure your ass is covered on all aspects of this situation is "playing hardball" or "making things worse." There's a way to handle yourself which still indicates that you're cooperating, but that you're also being careful about your business affairs from here on out. I really don't think you can be too careful here, especially since the whole reason you're doing this is to avoid the charges and/or jail time, right? ;) And, keep in mind that regardless of what happens to you, the cops still get to go home to their families and sleep in their own beds. :\ So, since the situation is what it is, I think that you should have some kind of insurance (no pun intended), otherwise, why even bother?

By the way, are you prepared to deal with the fact that you might end up going to court/jail anyway? Even though you cooperated with law enforcement and helped them make their busts?

I'm aware of a woman (she's currently in state prison, ironically) who has over ten felony drug convictions [*I'm certain that at least three of these convictions were incurred prior to the establishment of the "Three Strikes Law," and harsher sentencing for "Habitual Offenders"], and I know for a fact that she has recently gone the route of cooperating with law enforcement. I've reviewed some of her legal papers and seen her CI number and all that jazz. Likewise, her name appears in the "Discovery" paperwork of several other people I'm aware of. Somehow she continues to spend time in jail and prison, even though she's "cooperating" with the police, and regularly informing on people in the scene. I think the cops just use her because she is easily intimidated and they know she'll do anything to avoid "the bitch" these days. I can't be sure if they're putting her in jail/prison because it "looks good if she's in there," or "she really helps them out and has a lot of "solid" information which almost always leads to a conviction," or because they're just in the habit of using people and taking advantage of them. I think she "might" be getting reduced sentences, but she damned sure isn't getting off "scott free." Regardless, I won't be copying off this lady's homework at any time in the future. =D

My reason for mentioning this to you is, somehow this particular woman is still being prosecuted. I'm sure she uses public defenders or whatever, but somehow it looks like whatever deals she may have had with law enforcement aren't seeing their way to the judge/jury who ultimately decide your fate. I'm not advocating what you're doing, but I think if you're going to do it, you need to be aware that the cops don't have any control over sentencing. The only thing at this point they have the power to do is to make sure that your paperwork/personal information don't find their way to the city/state prosecutor's desk - otherwise, you will be dealing with the legal consequences of this little endeavor.

Anyway, yes, it will be interesting to see how this plays out. You've still gotta help them make three busts. I hope you're not putting all your eggs into one basket on the hopes that the pharmacist is going to be a "big bust," and that that's all you need to give them. If they said three, they probably mean three, no matter how big the busts end up being. I'm also curious to see whether or not the cops are going to hold up their end of the deal, and if you really do get off "scott free."

Again, good luck.
 
Generally speaking, task forces have incentive to keep promises of this sort. One really would not get very far if informants were screwed over at every opportunity.

I agree that the OP should protect himself as far as possible. He has an attorney, who is undoubtedly apprised of the facts better than anyone here. That attorney has recommended cooperation. In my view, that's the end of the discussion.

As far as the ethics, I'm not sure how the mods here feel about discussions of the subject here. There is also Philosophy and Spirituality, or Current Events and Politics, for such discussions.
 
Ason Unique, I'm sorry but I have to edit your post. It's only about right and wrong and not about the OP's legal situation.

Please let's stick to the nuts and bolts and not discuss morality, per the Legal Discussion forum guidelines. Thanks.
 
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Heuristic said:
As far as the ethics, I'm not sure how the mods here feel about discussions of the subject here. There is also Philosophy and Spirituality, or Current Events and Politics, for such discussions.
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Drug crimes being (for the most part) law violations between consenting adults, law enforcement finds itself in the position of having to use CI's to make any progress in drug law enforcement.

I'm not saying this is good or bad, but just the nature of the beast--and unfortunately the evolution of drug-crime sentencing has seen historically-escalating punishments that far exceed the nature of the crime. While many people think that the reason for the harsh sentences is because society wants to punish criminals for what it sees as serious crimes, it really has a rather mundane practicality behind it: leverage to exert on potential informants.

The reality is suspects facing a few months make much poorer informants than those facing 30 years. So what better way to improve informant quality than to artificially inflate drug-crime penalties? And that's exactly what has happened over the last 40 years.

Seeing how Bluelight is largely a board that exists for the discussion of illegal drugs, Legal Discussion I think would be remiss if it failed to allow for discussion of what is a typical scenario encountered by drug defendants. It's a topic that comes up quite often, and to avoid inflammatory discussion, we try to stick to the practical legalities behind interactions between LE and their potential informants.

Ethically? We generally want to stay away from it, but it can't help but be part of these kinds of discussions. Every time the topic comes up, the moderators of this forum inevitably unapprove a varying number of judgmental/flaming posts. While many of us can at face value sympathize with the sentiments expressed in these posts, I think the OP had it right--no one knows how they will handle the situation until it's facing them.

With that said, I've never seen a post in this forum that read:


Hi folks,

I'm new to the forum, and in 1985 I got busted for three kilos of coke. Instead of ratting someone out, I did the 25 years and boy am I glad I did. I wake up every morning and can walk the streets with a clear conscience. Always wanted kids, but at age 62 I guess it's getting a little late for that, hehe...
 
not the only one in this position

I was recently busted for growin marijuana in my aptmnt for myself. Metro Narcotics ( local narcotics task force) came to my door at 8:00 pm saying they had a complaint that i had a growing operation going on and ask to search the premises. My initial response was no thats stupid n no im not growin marijuana. But of course i has just gotten done smoking and even tho i used to say u couldnt smell the plants, its probably was much more evident to the police once i opened the door. So after the lead detective left to go get a warrant and i had some time to think i decided the best course of action at this point was to let them inn and pretty much forfeit the plants ( like i said there where 6 agents at my door and the warrant was coming so i dont wanna hear no shit from anybody) and the cops told me i could help myself and work with them so after thinking about it i told them i would and just like the poster of this threat they just took my name, number, and adress and told me to go to their head quarters the next day to sings the same informant papers the original poster singed. Ive read the whole post and can relate to a lot of the things said; i myself im a first offender, well pretty much, first time i have been looking at felony charges even tho i have a couple misdemeanor arrest. I also im someone with a family and a job on the line witch im not willing to loose so im in pretty much the same boat. I also agree with the moderator who explained how police work to bust drug users and drug dealers, its through the use of informants. So how would they benefit if they went around arresting their informants if their helping them? nobody would turn informant. Ive 2 had the thought of what if they dont keep their word? but really they are cops with a lot more shit on their hands than just our case so their going to prioritize. My question is how long will this cop keep me as an informant? i wonder if there is an amount of time a cop can keep u as an informant without filling charges on u? i just dont want to still be in this mess a year from now. i wanna do my little work and move on. Again, nobody give me bs because if u havent been in this position u cant say how u would react. We are just 2 people trying to keep our life together. I think it really sucks for me because this is an offense that in most states now days would have been a misdemeanor. But bein in the conservative state im in is the same as if i would have sold someone a gram of coke, a class c felony witch is the lowest form but could still carry up to 5years in prison. Now my other problem is the cops want me to help them get someone that sells coke or extacy witch are not my usual substances of use, i used to be on oxys for a couple years, and used to recreationally take extacy but for the past few years ive gone down to nothing more than smoking but i like smoking the best of buds so that led me to start growin me own and soon after my first plant i fell in love with it and is become my passion. Its just to bad something that im passionate about is goin to lead me to do something i never thought id do. I would like to hear a personal experience of someone becoming an informant and hwo the whole thing played out.:(
 
tobala said:
With that said, I've never seen a post in this forum that read:


Hi folks,

I'm new to the forum, and in 1985 I got busted for three kilos of coke. Instead of ratting someone out, I did the 25 years and boy am I glad I did. I wake up every morning and can walk the streets with a clear conscience. Always wanted kids, but at age 62 I guess it's getting a little late for that, hehe...
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Someday a decent person will stop by this place tobala, and then they'll bust him and he'll work on being able to make that retrospective post for you.
 
^ Maybe the ones who wouldn't turn into an informant are the ones who are smart enough not to get caught. Seriously, when buying or selling drugs there's the smart way and then there's the wrong way. I've never bought drugs from someone I didn't already know and I've especially never sold drugs to someone I didn't know AND trust. It's when you start talking to strangers and "friends of friends" that you get in trouble. [It's important to] use your head [in order to not face] the dilemmas that come with [getting caught].

Edited to remove comments that cross the line into judgmentalness; remember, no judgmental posts are allowed in the LD forum. Thanks, Johnny1
 
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You're a fool if you think you know who you can trust. Not everyone is aware when everyone they know and trust gets arrested, and as soon as they get arrested they are often turned against you.

Every informant is someone's friend and family. Informants rarely act twice - they're offered a chance to make a bust to save their skin, they take it, and that's that. It's the people you trust the most that are going to lead to your arrest in the war on drugs.
 
Any time i've heard of cops turning someone into an informant is when they send an undercover to buy from an actual dealer, not the other way around.

You [should not have told] the cops you knew a dealer in the first place. If you just remained silent you would have ended up with a possession or attempt to buy oxy charge... not something worth snitching over and REALLY risking your fmailies life. The cops are playing you [...] man.. And i would not want the lawyer you supposively have...seems he don't know shit about the law either.

USE YOUR RIGHT TO REMAIN SILENT. ALWAYS ASK FOR A LAWYER DONT TALK TO COPS BECAUSE ANYTHING YOU SAY WILL JUST BE USED AGAINST YOU.
 
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