National Database for OTC Products

[drug_mentor]

^ I know you weren't echoing Bustys statement exactly but I felt like you criticised my response to it, which I guess I may of misinterpreted.

I wouldn't prefer a "shonky medical system where you only got medical care if you could pay for it" but I really don't see how that correlates with the restriction of prescription drugs. The two aren't mutually exclusive and just because we are doing certain things right doesn't mean that we shouldn't voice our opinion over whats being done wrong.

In terms of the thread topic, it has gone a little all over the place and I certainly hold my share of the blame in that, but the original topic was/is about the possible database/monitoring of OTC medicines, including codeine. I did talk a little bit about prescription monitoring or the labelling people as doctor shoppers because I really see it as unfair and uncompassionate to say they are the problem and not the tight arse doctors or the people who make our dodgy laws. Much like you, I don't think anything is going to change anytime soon or that the medical situation in this country is as bad as it could be, that doesn't mean I ain't gonna voice my disagreement when I see what I regard as a highly ignorant statement by somebody who should know better, this is a discussion board after all... Anyway as said a couple times already I have done enough to contribute to the derailing of this thread so I am not going to engage in off topic discussion any more.

 

[spacejunk]

yas, likewise

 

[Sustanon]

So I was reading about pharmacies and privacy laws.

Each pharmacy has a 'patient profile' and it's added to evertime you buy a Schedule3 or prescription product, along with notes [though maybe you don't get all the notes, not sure] . So I went down to local pharmacy and asked for my patient profile. It includes everything you tell them, and notes they have made about you. I have been banned from buying riko there, but because i've known this pharmacist for years and i like him i'm too embarreassed to read what he's said. I really don't want to read 'suspected drug seeker'

Anyway it's your right to ask for this patient profile and review it, and ask for changes to be made where you believe there is an error or maybe a cunt pharmacist has overstated the situation in regards to riko or codeine purchases. It is apparently your right to have this patient profile deleted also... which may come in handy.

So next I'm gonig to hit up the warehouse see what notes they got on me.

If they dont record ur details how would they even have a profile of you?? *scratches head*

 

[Mr Blonde]

Regarding patient profile, I don't think you can actually request changes and they will be made, probably more likely they will make a note of your concerns or if you discuss why you require these meds with the pharmacist they may add that so that others don't jump to conclusions regarding what might be excessive use.

Now, as for the Database for S8 and OTC products (Trust me, it certainly ain't S4 containing shit, why I was scripted 4 packets of PBS-subsidized Tramal 200 mg SR within a 12 day period), I'm sure that OTC products won't be monitored. It's all speculation at this point in time, but each pharmacy has their own rules/state and federal rules to comply with.

I think that the Database is setup in order to catch multiple doctor shopping people of all ages. Oxycodone, morphine, hydromorphone, codeine phosphate (pure form), fentanyl, methadone, buprenorphine. From these drugs, sought out most is OxyContin and MS-Contin, and the most used drugs are methadone/buprenorphine (In the form of patches). How do I know this you ask? Methadone and buprenorphine are given to approximately 2,500 people daily in Australia.

Sounds like you finally read the article.

@Mr Blonde I apologise if I strayed to close to the line but I don't think any of us are discussing anything to do with the actual synthesis of drugs but rather synths relation to this bill and as possible advantageous benefit of the bill. (although this whole bill seems to really only affect people who cross state borders for more drugs as there are already state based monitoring systems (not always for codeine)...)

No it's fine, it was more a case of people posting off-topic things in the thread rather then specifically the synth guidelines being crossed.

 

[ayjay]

Thought I might throw in the press release from the minister, so we knows whats we talking about

12 February 2012

The Gillard Government will set up a new $5 million national electronic records system to combat abuse of controlled drugs including prescription painkillers, said Minister for Health Tanya Plibersek.

The Electronic Recording and Reporting of Controlled Drugs system will be made available to doctors, pharmacists and state and territory health authorities across Australia to monitor the prescribing and dispensing of addictive drugs in real time.

“While controlled drugs such as oxycodone, morphine and codeine play an important clinical role in managing pain, abuse of these drugs can cause enormous harm and is a growing problem in the community,” said Ms Plibersek.

“Following calls from coroners, law enforcers and consumer groups for greater control over distribution of the drugs, the Gillard Government is pleased to be making this electronic system available.”

Ms Plibersek said health professionals and administrators will be able to immediately detect people suspected, for example, of trafficking in painkillers, forging prescriptions and “doctor-shopping.”

“The new records system will be able to flag patients in real time who have repeatedly sought controlled drugs, helping to prevent people from inappropriately using the drugs or selling them to others.”

Health professionals will be able to access a centralised database over a secure computer network, which will contain prescription history records.

“If a pharmacist determines it is not clinically appropriate to dispense a medicine to a patient, it is their duty of care to restrict access to that patient.”

This information will enable state and territory health department regulators, pharmacists and prescribers to minimise the abuse of these medicines while also ensuring necessary access for consumers who have a legitimate need for these important medicines.

The amount of prescription opioids used in Australia is growing. According to the Internal Medicine Journal, the total value of Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme opioid prescriptions increased from $2 million in 1992 to $7 million in 2007.

Ms Plibersek said the Electronic Recording and Reporting of Controlled Drugs system was first developed by the Tasmanian Government.

The Gillard Government has signed a licensing agreement with the Tasmanian Department of Health and Human Services and will make a nationalised system available to states and territories, which are responsible for monitoring controlled drugs, from July this year.

“The system has proved popular among Tasmanian health professionals where it has been operational for more than a year.”

Currently, some states use paper-based prescription records, which are slow and require significant resourcing, while electronic recording in others states is inconsistent between jurisdictions. A national electronic system will allow pharmacists to check on prescription records from other states.

Drugs that will be monitored on the system are listed under Schedule 8 of the Standard for the Uniform Scheduling of Medicines and Poisons, which is administered by the Therapeutic Goods Administration.

Abuse of controlled drugs can have severe health and economic consequences such as addiction, disruption to families, loss of work productivity, risk of blood-borne diseases for injecting drug users, depression, anxiety, overdose and even death.

For more information, please contact the minister’s office on 02 6277 7220

From here

So looks like schedule 8 drugs are the ones to be monitored:

Drugs that will be monitored on the system are listed under Schedule 8 of the Standard for the Uniform Scheduling of Medicines and Poisons

And this schedule is here. Codeine is schedule 8, except where listed in schedules 2 and 4. Codeine combined with ibuprofin or paracetamol, where codeine dose is 30mg or less per tablet, is schedule 4. So for your CWE pleasure you will technically not be tracked by this scheme.. yet....

 

[Mr Blonde]

^ Schedules 2, 3 & 4 - 2 for products where it is combined with phenylephrine as well as paracetamol, 3 for combination meds that are 15mg codeine and less and meet certain packaging requirements, and then 4 for the other combination meds.

 

[Charles Bronson]

Schedule 3 = Rikodeine/Paracetamol combined with codeine/Ibuprofen combined with codeine.

Queensland is the hardest state to get multiple packs of Panafen + from. All the rest of the states, have laws against this shit!

Anyways, I'm going outside. It's a beautiful day out there in sunny Queensland (Gold Coast is like Los Angeles, and Brisbane is like a normal Californian city!

 

[Charles Bronson]

2 for any purpose PHARMACY MEDICINE



3 for any purpose PHARMACIST ONLY MEDICINE



4 for human use PRESCRIPTION ONLY MEDICINE

 

[Charles Bronson]

These type of drugs won't be covered in the National Database, but soon will be!

 

[Oxycondone]

I still stand by my point that this new system will not only create another layer of beurocracy for health professionals to conform to but also will falsly flag many legitimate pain patients as they go to hospital for emergencies/change home location/change GP/change medication strength or type/stock up for holiday or other circumstance ect...

Without a rock solid explanation good luck convincing health professionals you're not a drug addict...Especially when you may not even be aware when/where or why you have been flagged.

 

[Mr Blonde]

^ I agree that this is going to raise some concerns for those who have a legitimate need for long term use of S8 drugs. Hopefully there is a fair and understanding way that these issues can be handled, but I doubt it given the attitude the government takes towards these matters.

I disagree with idea that is going to add more bureaucracy... right now pharmacies are sending in paper records and unless they call up the responsible state health department, it takes time for them to catch on to doctor shoppers. A simple real time monitoring system will definitely be a big aid to pharmacists in attempting to curb this practice, and may cut down on some of the investigative bureaucracy on the state health department end.

 

[Sustanon]

I rekon anything above 12.8mg of codeine / pill will be monitored. You cant take away the only pain management pills from legitimate users. I mean how many people depend on it? Like I asked before who will decide if you had enough pills this month? There are heaps of people who take it for ongoing pain and it will be very hard to diffierentiate between legitimate customers and abusers. Just because someone uses even a box or 2 of pills a week is classified as a abuser? Man pain is such a bad thing, taking this away from people will be a horrible thing to do.

 

[brighton]

These type of drugs won't be covered in the National Database, but soon will be!

source?

 

[Christ!]

source?

Source - Charles Bronson's brain.

 

[Oxycondone]

I rekon anything above 12.8mg of codeine / pill will be monitored.

You think they'd monitor Panadeine Extra but not regular Panadeine... I think they'd either monitor all OTC codeine products or none (ie only products containing above 15mg codeine per tablet). That's if they are planning on monitoring non schedule 8 medications at all...

 

[Sustanon]

I thought 12.8mg was the highest amount that can be in a single pill if OTC?

 

[Mr Blonde]

^ Panadeine Extra, and the new generic Mydol, both have 15mg codeine phosphate per tablet. I mentioned the new Mydol brand a while back in the CWE thread, and just recently it has arrived on the shelves in a 40 pack by getting through a loophole in the scheduling.

 

[Sustanon]

Ahh kk, there not really following their regulations then haha Why cant manufacturers just make pure codeine tablets? that way there would be very minimal health risks associated with it. They follow those regulations :S

 

[Mr Blonde]

CODEINE when:
(a) not combined with any other opiate substance;
(b) compounded with one or more other therapeutically active substances, of which not more than one is an analgesic substance:
(i) in divided preparations containing 12 mg or less of codeine per dosage unit; or
(ii) in undivided preparations containing 0.25 per cent or less of codeine;
(c) labelled with a recommended daily dose not exceeding 100 mg of codeine; and
(d) in packs containing not more than 5 days of supply at the maximum dose recommended
on the label,
except when included in Schedule 2

That's from the SUSMP 2011. They are not disregarding their own regulations, the legislation states 12mg of codeine per dosage unit, not codeine phosphate. That is why Mydol can be on the market; the weight of the actual codeine component is less then 12 mg per tablet, they are disregarding the salt as the legislation does not specify the weight including the salt.

 

[ThHardMotherfucker]

Mydol - Cunning fuckers whoever made that shit!

Point is, I think that it's important, real fucking important, to track down these dic hopping degenerates who fool legitimate doctors into feeling bad, cuz they have the confidence/etc. from being fucked up offa benzos/opiate combos really.

Then, you get the retarded, scum fucker type of junkie. Taaaallllkkksss reaaallll sloowwwww likkkkeeee, is constantly out of his/her head and is easy as fuck to spot as a dope fiend due to his/her lack of self respect.

"The amount of prescription opioids used in Australia is growing. According to the Internal Medicine Journal, the total value of Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme opioid prescriptions increased from $2 million in 1992 to $7 million in 2007."

MY GOD! Get me the President of the U.S of A on the phone...!

Jesus titty fucking christ! If this is all they have to back up their so called war on irresponsible drug users, well than fuck my arse without a condom on, cuz I luvvv getting fucked by stupid arse politicians/propaganda pushers!

15 years, people! Someone who was 50 in 92', would be 65 in 07' = increase in health risks/associated painful syndromes, as our bodies aren't made to last long.