National Database for OTC Products

[Busty St Clare]

I pretty much agree with spacejunk.... you reap what you sow. I have no problem with people enjoying codiene once a week or so, it's not my bag but each to their own. In the name of harm reduction though if you are using 3 or more times a week it is no longer a recreational activity but rather a crutch. You are on your way to becoming an addict (if you are not there already) and it is perfectly withn the job of government to protect you from yourself. Don't forget in a lot of cases they are subsidising the cost of these prescriptions with tax dollars. If you know better then by all means pay full price. The same for doctor shoppers. Trust must exist between any health professional and their patient and if you abuse this trust you are not only risking your own health but the prescribers professional livlihood.

My best advise is to establish a good relationship with those who can help you. If you suffer from a genuine condition find a doctor who has your interests at heart. I know alot can be heartless cunts when it comes to addiction but many more want to help you. The same can exist between you and a pharmacist. Become friendly with them, rather than coming in looking like a sketchy dope fiend, make small talk, buy other items, use the words please and thank you, establish a level of trust. Of course this isn't going to work if all you want is a 3x 50 packs of codiene every second day but it will make things easier if they see you as a human not some junky animal. I have a good relationship with my local chemist who always asks about my kids and is more than happy to reach under the counter for the pseudo tablets when I have a cold even though "officially" they only stock the new formula shit.

 

[ayjay]

I think Busty's right here - if you are smashing boxes of codiene so much that the pharmacist doesn't want to sell to you, you've probably got a jack rabbit Same goes for "doctor shopping" - if you need to visit several GPs to get your needs met, something's up!

Nevertheless - the "stick" approach has some issues. Where are all these people going to go when they can't get their scripts filled? Are they just going to say "Oh well" and give up drugs? Probably not. I can foresee an increase in pharmacy break-ins and hold ups, as well as a surge in heroin use. Also an increase in black market painkillers. Probably not desired outcomes I would guess...

I think there needs to be a concomitant increase in availability of pharmacotherapy, for example. It needs to be easier for Docs to prescribe things like methadone and buprenorphine. There should be consideration of prescribing drugs like oxycodone as maintenance therapy for a habit. And you should be able to pick up buprenorphine a box at a time - not this terrible daily supervised dosing system we have at the moment.

 

[Charles Bronson]

Huh, it seems that one of my threads has inspired thought amongst my fellow BlueLighters, and for that I am grateful. (Except you Spacejunk...).

I guess that it's alright for myself, being a non-doctor shopping/non-S8 drug abuser, but I was worried there for a second. I thought that my deprivation of my right to get adequate pain-relief (being kicked the shit out of, back problems, naggers did me in man!) was in jeopardy, but it appears as if, through constructive conversation, that my right to get adequate relief of pain is NOT in jeopardy.

It appears that the Third Reich (Gillard Government) has placed this PROJECT STOP bullshit on strictly S-8 only drugs, such as pure codeine phosphate/oxycodone/hydromorphone etc. I'm glad as fuck, let me tell you, that something like this has come along and stopped fuelling the need for junkies to fuck multiple doctors over in a 24 hour period.

Shit man, the strongest painkiller I had was in hospital, 10 mg Endone. Apart from that I have been scripted Panadeine Forte/Tramadol/Dextropropoxyphene solutions etc.

Panic hit me like a bucket of water, as I'm prone to taking 3200 mg of Ibuprofen/Codeine daily for a condition, but it appears that Heir Fuhrer Gillard has done the Australian people a good thing, by making it so much fucking harder for thieving/conniving cunts of addicts to get their fix, a little bit harder/less dodgy fucking over doctors.

Good work, heir Fuhrer Gillard.

 

[Charles Bronson]

Nevertheless - the "stick" approach has some issues. Where are all these people going to go when they can't get their scripts filled? Are they just going to say "Oh well" and give up drugs? Probably not. I can foresee an increase in pharmacy break-ins and hold ups, as well as a surge in heroin use. Also an increase in black market painkillers. Probably not desired outcomes I would guess...

I think there needs to be a concomitant increase in availability of pharmacotherapy, for example. It needs to be easier for Docs to prescribe things like methadone and buprenorphine. There should be consideration of prescribing drugs like oxycodone as maintenance therapy for a habit. And you should be able to pick up buprenorphine a box at a time - not this terrible daily supervised dosing system we have at the moment.

Create more police work/more jobs in law enforcement/probably set up a state ran Prescription Drug Abuse Squad (oh wait, they already do have one of them, I think?).

Couldn't give a fuck about a punk-bitch cop. Do nothing for me.

 

[Mr Blonde]

Not all, holiday destinations and tourist hot spots are less likely to check identification ime.
It's been a month or so since I've been on the Gold Coast but I was up the Sunshine Coast this weekend.
Generally, if I'm buying any codeine products there it's easy to play the interstate card and youve been at the beach all day and just came past the chemist on the way back to your apartment. I've never actually had to say this, but I've noticed it's assumed.
On the few times I have been asked for my details and not identification, I have simply been asked to write down my name and address without producing any photo I.D
Comes in handy if you are buying bulk

Yeah like I said not all places will require ID, but they will all take some kind of details from you for any S3 drugs, including salbutamol (Ventolin) or 1% hydrocortisone cream.

footscrazy made mention of (what seemed to be a victorian) scheme that appeared to be a larger database, but i'm not aware that we've had any updates or further information on that. i think mr blonde may have mentioned this recently?
i'm very curious to know more about what happened there, i'm not sure if there was an update at any point?

Yeah I asked if there was any more information but no one has chipped in yet.

 

[bobbydarren]

As was stated, 'mate' of mine went in to a pharmacy asked for a 200 ml bottle of Rikodeine, was told that he'd been having up to 3 bottles of Rikodeine per month, stated it was bullshit, bought it and left, word got through to me through the usual routes and what does a FOAF point out in today's Sunday Newspaper (Queensland)...Fucking Thousand Year Reich!

Well did he actually buy 3 bottles that month from different pharmacies or was pharmacist/chemist chick just lying?

I"M banned from buying riko from my 3 local Warehause stores because the chem girl looked on her computer and said 'oh I see you've regularly bought this from blah store as well..... oh and blah store too' . she then narcs to someone out the back. This resulted in me being banned from all 3 stores [and presumably the entire chain of stores].
Got limited to 1 codeine product per month at 1 of these stores, and as a part of this limitation the chem girl now has to read a script made especially for me everytime i give them my info, this includes asking me when I last purchased this product.

It's the same at all 3 stores, with the girl having to read through a shit load of notes then ask me the same scripted questions. But this is a case of 1 particular chain of pharmacies sharing information between their stores.

I want to know if this is illegal, and if so, I want to know how to complain about this pharmacy and to who. I"ve whinged aboutr this before, but nobody seems to know. They surely are in breach of privacy laws.

 

[Oxycondone]

I'm glad my state has been nice on us with medication restrictions (especially in rural pharmacies I've noticed). If this new system fucks me over I will be so pissed and will be making my voice heard both to my representative and the medical boards of which I belong to.

Furthering restriction from their current state only harms legitimate patients I find (some pharmacies won't even dispense a single tablet of a faxed, authorised (checked via phone) S8 prescription until it arrives in the mail, mitigating any time benefit from faxing). In my state rural folk (only 15% of the population) have to travel for health care, university, jobs, ect. It is not uncommon for a person to have 2-3 GPs, one where they live while studying, one in their town of origin (to visit/stay with parents and friends) and one somewhere else of need. I currently have had to use this system previously and probably will again in the future, I also go through scripts quickly (although as authorised by my state) and travel regularly (sometimes needing to stock up before I go away). If this is picked up as doctor shopping by the new national system I will be spouting smoke from my ears...

Edit: Also if I run out of meds on a weekend (like this past weekend) when my GP isn't working I rely on codeine CWE's to get by... I know I've been told before to "be more organised" but sometimes you can't organise for a day you'll have excruciating pain worse than normal and need to take more tablets than you originally envisioned, or you go somewhere and for whatever reason you forgot/lost/had stolen your meds, or simply you go to the pharmacist and they don't have your meds in stock (I bet you my current meds that if you randomly picked 5 pharmacies from your phone book and called all of them none would stock 8mg Dillies, I rang 20 pharmacies in Sydney when I was on my travels to find them and had to race to get there before they shut just to get my meds for the weekend!).

 

[Charles Bronson]

Well did he actually buy 3 bottles that month from different pharmacies or was pharmacist/chemist chick just lying?


The pharmacist bitch was lying. I thought it was pretty obvious by quoting 'mate', which meant myself. The only Rikodeine I've tried to get in to me in the last month was multiple times from a Discount Drug Store, one at one location rejected my claim, the other one didn't, and so I got a hold of 100 ml of Rikodeine, as that's what they had, drank that shit, on top of some Xanax and some good P. Cubensis, then hit Roger Waters 'The Wall' concert.

Point is, it being the 13th day of the month, and myself buying 1 bottle of 100 ml of Rikodeine from a completely different pharmacy (Discount Drug Store), and the pharmacist bitch at the other location, from ThinkPharmacy, said to me that I had bought 3 bottles of Rikodeine in the last 10 or so days is complete and utter bullshit.

I"M banned from buying riko from my 3 local Warehause stores because the chem girl looked on her computer and said 'oh I see you've regularly bought this from blah store as well..... oh and blah store too' . she then narcs to someone out the back. This resulted in me being banned from all 3 stores [and presumably the entire chain of stores].
Got limited to 1 codeine product per month at 1 of these stores, and as a part of this limitation the chem girl now has to read a script made especially for me everytime i give them my info, this includes asking me when I last purchased this product.

I assume you're talking about Chemist Warehouse. Yeah dude, they liason with one another/some even work at different pharmacies. I'm banned from entering my local CW and Good Price Pharmacy Warehouse, because I go there too much. Shit man, I went down to a Chemist Warehouse that actually sells Rikodeine for a decent price (Check online) and then after getting a bottle every month, I was banned from getting anymore Rikodeine, with the exception of me lying at the same store, saying that it was for my little sister.

It's the same at all 3 stores, with the girl having to read through a shit load of notes then ask me the same scripted questions. But this is a case of 1 particular chain of pharmacies sharing information between their stores.

I want to know if this is illegal, and if so, I want to know how to complain about this pharmacy and to who. I"ve whinged aboutr this before, but nobody seems to know. They surely are in breach of privacy laws.
You would think that they're in breach of privacy laws and bullshit, but no dude, they're not. File sharing is common against bully pharmacists, who work in liaison with one another. If you want to complain, download a form...(Google 'APRHA', go to Complaints section, and print one out, ask for the details of the pharmacists name, and Boom, you have them being watched by a national agency, established to keep these cunts who are 'health professionals' in line).

Hope that this information helps you bro. Ain't nothing like a good piss from the arse every now and then, to clean up the pipes, so to speak LOL. Have a good one brother, and stand up to these communists sons of bitches.

 

[drug_mentor]

I pretty much agree with spacejunk.... you reap what you sow. I have no problem with people enjoying codiene once a week or so, it's not my bag but each to their own. In the name of harm reduction though if you are using 3 or more times a week it is no longer a recreational activity but rather a crutch. You are on your way to becoming an addict (if you are not there already) and it is perfectly withn the job of government to protect you from yourself. Don't forget in a lot of cases they are subsidising the cost of these prescriptions with tax dollars. If you know better then by all means pay full price. The same for doctor shoppers. Trust must exist between any health professional and their patient and if you abuse this trust you are not only risking your own health but the prescribers professional livlihood.

I couldn't disagree with your first paragraph more, it is NEVER the job of the Government to protect you from yourself. You are free to live your life as you choose and until that becomes a negative on other people thats your business, no one elses and certainly not the Governments. Using codeine 3 times a week an addict or close?! Thats ridiculous, to most codeine users a CWE probably affects them less than a 6 pack of beer, yet I don't think most would call someone who drank a 6 pack of beer 3 nights a week a bloody alcoholic. I have noticed you tend to stigmatise opiate users a little bit and I am not sure why. Certainly describing tri weekly recreational codeine use as being an addict or certainly on the way is a huge fuckign exaggeration, and whats more, even if you are an addict or on the way, the Government doesn't step in to intervene in tobacco or alcohol addiction so why is it their right to do so with codeine or other drugs if you don't feel your use is a problem?

I don't think its right to blame doctor shoppers for the current situation, because people should have rights to treat themselves with whatever drugs they want. It shouldn't really matter why someone wants an opiate, who are you to say emotional pain is more or less than a physical injury? Its this bullshit mentality that there is only one proper way to use drugs and every other way is wrong that creates the fear of 'non medical' use of drugs and physicians apprehension to prescribe drugs of potential abuse. This and the threat of legal consequences.

I agree that people abusing drugs shouldn't get Government subsidised drugs, but how about you give people the option. I would happily pay full price for oxy or xanax or whatever if I felt I needed it but my percieved need didn't exactly fit the current narrow criteria a doctor would consider acceptable. People shouldn't be catching a buzz on tax payer subsidized meds but when the only other option the Government is giving us is to go and pay outlandish prices on the blackmarket is it any wonder that a large amount of people take the first option?

At the end of the day I really don't see it as anyone elses business how much someone takes of what so long as they can pay for it themselves and don't neglect their responsibilities.

 

[Busty St Clare]

Come back to me in 18 months drug mentor and then we'll see how healthy it is compared to alcohol.

 

[Divine Moments]

I don't think most would call someone who drank a 6 pack of beer 3 nights a week a bloody alcoholic.

Yet someone who does that probably is an alcoholic...

 

[drug_mentor]

LOL I use fuck all codeine any more, that isn't the point. I know how damaging alcohol is I currently have a pretty heavy addiction to it which has caused me a lot more negative than my use and abuse of opiates/opioids over the years but thats besides the point really... I just disagree with the notion that its the Governments job to step in and pre emptively stop people becoming habituated on a substance. I also disagree that its doctor shopper or drug abusers fault that people have trouble getting meds, its not for somebody else to decide what substance could be beneficial to my life and what can't, so I don't really think its even fair to deny people access to drugs due to the mere possibility their usage of said drug might fall into your own personal definition of abuse or recreational use. The laws are the problem and people that are either forced to tell lies to physicians or pay exhorbitant prices on the black market in order to obtain the drugs they feel help them are victims too.

It really isn't relevant how damaging or 'healthy' a drug is. I assume your referring to CWE because the health effects of pure codeine are next to fucking nil stacked against alcohol, in general you seem to have a problem with opioid users in general which I don't understand. Opiates are less damaging to the body than beer and wine mate, yet I doubt you would consider tri weekly use of either of the latter two as neccessarily close to an addiction. I would of thought a medical professional wouldn't have such idiotic biases.

DM, I know if you count units of alcohol then 18 beers a week probably JUST falls into what doctors will call an alcoholic. For me personally, I don't find this is true whatsoever, to me an alcoholic has an addiction and not even using every second day doesn't fall into my typical definition of addiction. Aside from that, off 18 beers I could get drunk at the most 2 nights a week and that is hardly an addiction. I have known MANY MANY MANY people who would drink a 6 pack 3-5 nights a week after work for extended periods only to give it up on a whim with ZERO hassle for whatever reason be it health or grief from the missus, etc. To a minority of people this might be problematic use but for a majority I don't think so (don't take this as me saying its healthy, just not that likely to cause a real addiction).

 

[Busty St Clare]

Could someone who takes codiene 3 nights a week for 18 months walk away just as easily?

 

[drug_mentor]

^ I took it more than that for longer than that and my liver tests come back fine so I would say so buddy...

Not to mention its only because of the retarded prohibitionists adding actual harmful shit to the tablets that I (or anyone else) may of suffered any damage, I don't see how thats an argument against codeine use more than it is an argument against our bullshit laws?

 

[Busty St Clare]

I'm talking more about tolerance and withdrawal. Most codiene abusers I know get into trouble quickly because they find it harder and harder to satisfy that itch as the weeks rapidly pass. The only thing that saves them is the far dirtier heroin scene that they choose to avoid.

 

[drug_mentor]

^ I know loads of people to take that level of codeine regularly and not struggle with addiction, including myself in the past. Speaking from experience alcohol is way less healthy and way more habit forming, but really what you form a habit on easier comes down to personality. We can argue the semantics about how healthy codeine is but the point is I just disagree with your whole elitist outlook like anyone who takes drugs you look down on or uses more drugs than you deserves to have the fucking Government intervene in their lives. That attitude is unproductive imho.

Anyway, this is going a little bit off the original topic and I think we have both made our opinions clear. Lets face it Busty, for whatever reason we don't seem to see eye to eye on a hell of a lot.

 

[Sustanon]

How on earth would someone who does codeine turn to Heroin? Heroin is fuking rubbish in Australia anyway, people keep offering me some, ud be lucky to get 10-20% pure stuff if that unless you know some higher up in the chain people. The average Joe who uses codeine few times a week, I doubt would even have that good connections. Some people prefer it as they dont have to source it illegally, we all know how shit it is to depend on a drug and a dealer.

 

[drug_mentor]

^ I agree with you on the first point in general, but you can't say codeine use doesn't spark the love of opiates/opioids for some people. I don't think dope in this country is as bad as people make out... maybe a little expensive, Government testing has average purity just above 20% last I checked and I would guess a large % of busts that they get these figures from is small time, bottom of the barrel retail purchases. It has always baffled me a little bit that dope could cost quite what it does with this proximity to the golden triangle but on the same token I don't think its overall garbage and atleast its one of the places in the world that gets #4 which is relatively easy on the veins.

Codeine seems to be a sort of unique drug to me though in a sense, it seems to me that in Australia atleast there is a good amount of codeine devotees, many of which have been exposed to harder opiates at some point in their life but continue to use codeine as their primary opiate. Tolerance permitting I have actually found codeine to be a favourite opiate amongst a number of people which includes myself (unfortunately even after extensive breaks my tolerance is no longer that good ) and a very close friend of mine. With any class of drugs there is the potential for a user to escalate their way up the ladder but in my experience codeine is an experience that has nearly as much to appreciate in its subtlety as it does its ability to get one fucked up. For me it is sort of like the diazepam of opiates, sure I struggle to get incredibly fucked up but on the flipside there is a range of enjoyable subtle effects that few other drugs in the same class offer.

 

[Oxycondone]

Anyway, this is going a little bit [understatement] off the original topic and I think we have both made our opinions clear.

How on earth would someone who does codeine turn to Heroin? Heroin is fuking rubbish in Australia anyway, people keep offering me some, ud be lucky to get 10-20% pure stuff if that unless you know some higher up in the chain people. The average Joe who uses codeine few times a week, I doubt would even have that good connections. Some people prefer it as they don't have to source it illegally, we all know how shit it is to depend on a drug and a dealer.

Don't want to break the code but lets just say the synth for codeine -> heroin is very basic organic chemistry, and a lot of people I know (hey it may be the circles I'm in) have never met a H connect and have only tried it through their mates synth (they did it just for a one off try, the synth was a one off and no money was exchanged, heck they may even come out better doctors for it).

Anyway bringing this back on topic, this national register would make it slightly more difficult for decent sized (commercially lucrative) portions of H to be synthed. Unfortunately I can see that leading to the possibility of synths of stronger opiates such as fentanyl which will cause A LOT MORE ODs. Thanks again government for your kind knee jerk legislating which will not only kill people but serve to raise the health care expenses in a time where economic stability is rapidly disappearing.

 

[brutus]

How would the pharmacist check your ID in this situation?

Here in the U.S. every time you buy anything with psedoephedrine, you must talk to the actual pharmacist and explain why you need it and not some other nasal decongestant that's not behind the counter. Then the pharmacist asks you basically all of the information that is on your license before asking to see it. The pharmacist checks the info that you verbally told him/her against what's on your license. After all of that, they check the ID to make sure it's not fake and then scan it to check the database to see the last time you bought any pseudoephedrine. Also, you are only allowed to purchase a certain amount. Plus you have to be either 18 or 21 depending on the state. Even after all of that, the pharmacist can refuse to sale it to you.

If that program actually is put in place, hopefully it will not be like it is in the U.S. It's ridiculous that it's easier to buy meth than to buy pseudo for sinus problems. I know I am preaching to the choir about how governments handle drugs though.