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Tryptamines [Mushrooms Subthread] P. Tampanensis & P. Mexicana A Sclerotia (Philosophers Stones)

There is no objective truth, only 6 billion subjective ones. Your truth may not be my truth or your friend Harry's truth.

Scientific and spiritual views do not necessarily need to be in any opposition to each other. They can coexist.

This is what I wanted to say.

Scientific and spiritual views are two different viewpoints of the same phenomena.
The scientist says that the molecule affects the brain in such-and-such a manner.
The spiritualist says that s/he feels enlightened.
They can both be correct.
 
15mg is not enough... 15g would be a moderate dose. Equivalent to 30g of fresh cubensis.

But 30g fresh cubensis equals 3g dried, which is almost an eighth.
It is very easy to trip hard on 3g dried cubensis, especially if you are experienced with mushrooms and know how to take your trips farther. Moreso if you have a good environment for tripping.
The strength of the trip depends partially on the strength of your mind.
I have tripped well on less than half a gram of dried cubensis, since my environment was very trippy (with friends all on high doses, great music playing, etc.), and I am very experienced with psychedelics (more than 100 trips).
 
You cannot apply logic to subjective experiences. Feelings are not logical. The human experience is not logical.

Yes!
Especially for mystical experiences, which by definition are not located in the realm of logic.
 
consider "thinking you are having a mystical experience" and "having a mystical experience" as logical operators.

"thinking you are having a mystical experience" = TM
"having a mystical experience = HM

TM(a) (where a = the experience)
does not equal
HM(a)

logically. If it did then there would be no way for a person to ever be wrong about their experience.

cough. your logic operators are defined to include their function. logically

tm=a
hm=a

tm=a=hm

the experience is always defined as mystical by your operators themselves. there is no objective experience without a subject experiencing it. "the experience" is a modal operator of the subject.

people are never wrong about their experience. they define what they believe and it functions as such, until they change their interpretation/belief regarding it, for whatever reason.

when you say: im thinking about a mystical experience, you are by your own words not having one. you don't think you're having one, you'r attempting to create one. thus you are not having one. neither do you think you do. you already know your not. your thinking is not that of an absolutely autonomous subject that creates ex nihilo.
 
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Philosophers stone refers to sclerotia, which is basically a clump of mycelium. It's a "reserve" of nutrients the mycelium creates to survive eg. dry periods, or periods when nutrients aren't readily available to the mycelium.

Then again, all mushroom matter is mycelium. You can take any piece of mushroom material, sterilize it and throw it into a jar of sterile substrate, the mycelium will grow from the piece of mushroom and colonize the substrate.

It is very easy to trip hard on 3g dried cubensis, especially if

People are different, and react differently on psychoactive substances. A 3g dose might be reality shattering for one, while another might achieve barely treshold with said dosage. YMMV.

I'm also quite experienced on mushroom trips, but 3g of dried cubes doesn't do very much for me.

this is a rather traditional and dogmatic view of the human mind...it does not accord to some studies examining inter and self-personal reporting. We don't always have access to what is going on in our own minds.

This is irrelevant. When you have a subjective experience, there is only one person who can, at that moment, subjectively or objectively define that experience. Your interpretation of the experience (or the memory of that experience) may change within time, but it is still you who defines how you interpret that experience.
 
this is a rather traditional and dogmatic view of the human mind...it does not accord to some studies examining inter and self-personal reporting. We don't always have access to what is going on in our own minds.

until they change that belief + my next paragraph. one is not an absolute autonomous subject. until there is an interpersonal report; the self-personal report functions as true. (foundationalist epistemology) when the belief is shared this truth may or may not change according to interpersonal dialectics (coherentist epistemology). the modal foundation (self-reported experience) may fall, or it may be accepted, thereby gaining a level of reality. it may gain strenght or weaken in interpersonal reports. if accepted, the modal foundation becomes a foundation by means of coherence, as it begins to function as interpersonal truth. but even then it never becomes objective. the modal foundation an sich however is always the hands of the subject regardless of the interpersonal. (consider fanaticism, delusion, schizophrenia).

an interpersonal report will never gain any objectivity, since that is based off another subjects experience of said first subject.

modal fictionalism ftw =D
 
[(edit) since the original post to which this was a reply seems to have vanished, i'll reconstruct the questions put forth.]

psyT: that is not foundationalism; and even descartes in his first meditation deems 1st person sensory knowledge as uncertain.
&
psyT: i think you are confusing 'some other world' with 'this world' in your modal fictionalism.

allright, i'll try to clear it up.

my reference to foundationalism is there to make it easier to comprehend. foundationalism has no logical basis by its own. as you note yourself adamantly with descartes first meditation, solipsism can never be ruled out logically. which is the only true foundation. dubito, ergo sum. paradoxically though, it is not a foundation (for truth). its a bottomless swamp.

therefor, i refer to such a foundation (of truth) as a modal foundation in first instance. it has the possibility of being a foundation. so it is both a foundation and it is not at the same time. this position i refer to as modal fictionalism. while the possible world wherein this is a foundation is not true, the benefits of it can be kept by the subject, eg. by his belief in the fiction; it creates very real effects in the very real world. here we come into the grey area in between (and why it bears reference to foundationalism). although it is a fiction, said person acts on it as if it is true. say he blows himself up as a suicide bomber. the world in which these effects manifest is the interpersonal world. thus by way of their effect, the modal foundation gains a level of reality through the subject taking it as a foundation (while it is not, stricly speaking). this is the grey area

lets now cross over into true interpersonality (in the previous example, the other persons affected have no free will in the matter, and are thus objects). the truth as something that extends beyond ourself is not established.

say you experience a (mystical) state wherin you come to see your significant other as your true soul mate. you are led to truly believe this. this is your personal experience. by the power of your sincere belief in it, it becomes a foundation (for you); personal feelings and thoughts are built on it (note that descartes does the same thing in his cartesian circle). however, from the perspective of the interpersonal realm; this is only a modal foundation. it is possible. here we cross the grey area. so the next day you are cuddling with your s/o, you tell her of your experience and feelings. here the modal foundation may become a truth in the sense of 'beyond myself'. suppose your s/o says YES, i also feel such a thing. the modal foundation becomes coherent through external factors. though strictly speaking there still is no objective foundation, it becomes a true foundation by the means of this coherence. eg. both you and your partner will act accordingly and produce real effects in the shared world, coherent with your belief. thus these 'objective' effects lend a level of reality to the cause of these effects; ie. what once was the modal foundation. infact, an instance such as the cartesian circle is here created: the belief becomes a reality through its effects, which in turn reinforce the belief further, making its base broader/stronger everytime the belief is confirmed. we gain trust in it, and begin building upon said belief, forgetting, as a matter of fact, that it is actually a belief. this is infact a foundation as it is used in foundationalist theory. it doesn't get any better or stronger then this. which means foundationalism cannot exist without a reinforcing coherentism.

and for the apotheosis: the foundation of the scientific method; eg. experience/experiment is no different whatsoever. One notes A is causally connected to B. one notices similar situations in which this is true. one concieves of a general theory that as broadly as possible encompasses all these events. however, as strongly confirmed the theory will get, in actuality it never passes into objectivity/ beyond hypothesis. that is a leap we make. you can never have experienced all possibilities of said theory. Though incredibly small, there is always the chance that suddonly a situation pops up that contradicts the theory. when that happens, the theory is either discarded or amended. so its never truly objective. you say a pure science like mathematics? axioms!

modal fictionalism, broadly taken, is a way by we can designate the fiction of our foundations, while at the same time take them for real through their effects. as a philosophical position, we can keep the benefits of these fictions, while escaping universal foundationalism which is either a bottemless-pit-paradox or completely untenable in terms of epistemology. when taken not too narrow, modal fictionalism is philosopically speaking a very tenable position regarding avoidance of paradoxes in most fields applied. its not perfect though (as if, lol =D)

[wanders off talking to the birds and the trees]
 
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If you believe you are having a mystical experience, then subjectively, you are experiencing a mystical experience. It's a totally subjective definition.



You cannot apply logic to subjective experiences. Feelings are not logical. The human experience is not logical.


An "Amen" is in order here.

Amen
 
Is 15mg of fresh tapensis enough to trip hard?...
Do they like mexicans or hawaians get stronger when dried?

Well I don't know about trip hard, but I think 15g fresh would still be enough for a decent trip. I don't know, I might be sensitive to tampanensis, but per g they are pretty strong shrooms. The trip with them can also be kind of strange. :)
 
Well I don't know about trip hard, but I think 15g fresh would still be enough for a decent trip. I don't know, I might be sensitive to tampanensis, but per g they are pretty strong shrooms. The trip with them can also be kind of strange. :)

I also think that either 15 or 20 grams are sold here legally as a dose. Done it once or twice and although I didn't find it particularly strong that also might have been because of the type... Wouldn't be that surprised if that's what they call a dose.
 
^btw; i find it so strange they illegalized all the other species, yet they left tampanensis out of the new law?
 
Are you talking about the netherlands mushroom ban?

Someone told me that there's a loophole in the law: the law only specifies mushroom fruitbodies as illegal, and sclerotia are not fruitbodies.

I'm not sure how true this is, I bet Solipsis can confirm/debunk this info.
 
Philosphers Stones are quite nice; only tried once but a mild and pleasant experience was had :)
 
i have fallen in love with those truffels since the aforementioned ban on mushrooms in the netherlands ....actually they taste way better than "normal" shrooms. i like the nuttily (didn't know that such a word actually exists^^) taste and i think there's no difference between the effect of shrooms and truffles (considering your ingesting the right dose, 15 gramm of fresh sclerotia)
makes me want to do shrooms this weekend :D
 
Has anyone had experience with a few different types of truffle (Atlantis, Mexicana, Tampanensis) & could compare?
 
last time i tripped i bought "golden teacher" sclerotia...i don't wich sort it really was but i can say, after having eaten many if not all of the usual used "magic mushrooms", that there is no difference except your own set and setting that effects and shapes your trip......note, that this is my perception and might not be true at all ^^
 
Golden teacher is a variety of Psilocybe cubensis.

Differences between strains/varieties of the same species might be too marginal to notice, but differences between different species are clear.
 
Philosopher's Stones

Good evening everyone, this is my introduction to the forum. :)

I am not an experienced psychedelic user, but certainly have enough experience that I feel I have readied myself for mushrooms (lots of marijuana, many trips on HBWR - some very strong, strongest being 12 good quality seeds - and one absolutely terrifying trip on salvia... near .5g of 15x extract held in for a while from one hit is pretty intense for someone who had only just started smoking weed...). As you can perhaps tell from this list, I tend to only do entirely natural substances. Anyway, it is very hard to get mushrooms around here (I live in the north-west of the UK, although I sure most who know few psychedelic users have trouble finding a source), until my friend found a Dutch supplier for philosopher's stones online, who sold them under the condition that they are legal under Dutch drug law because "they are technically truffles, not mushrooms". It is far from the only website to do so, but fairly unique in that it sold to the UK.

Anyway, I was just wondering what people thought of these compared to "real" magic mushrooms? I've heard they still contain psilocybin, but slightly different composition causes them to give a more introspective, mental high than visual. As interesting as that sounds, I've had many of those on HBWR before, and thus am primarily wondering just how visual they are - HBWR rarely gives me many OEVs, save for enhanced brightness and vivacity of lights and shimmering, shifting surfaces.

Any tips on taking them would be appreciated too, although far from necessary - the information on the myriad pages on normal psilocybin mushrooms will most likely ring true to these philosopher's stones.

Thanks. :)
 
There really isn't a 'normal psilocybin mushroom'

There are dozens, maybe hundreds of psilocin/psilocybin containing mushrooms.

If these 'philosopher's stones' (not a term I've ever heard) have psiloc(yb)in them then they're as 'normal' as mushrooms come.
 
I know I can't post suppliers, but can I post Google searches? If so... [gone!] (Well, the name of them is "philosopher's stone truffles"... that's enough information ;))

If not... I shall remove that immediately.

I do understand there are many, many different types of psilocybin/psilocin mushrooms, but I single these out because they have an entirely different label ("truffles" as opposed to "mushrooms"), and as a result seem to possess an entirely different legality status.
 
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