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  • EADD Moderators: axe battler | Pissed_and_messed

Morals on the killing of animals

I'm not sure thats a valid argument against saving billions of animal lives and reducing suffering every year, whilst saving a heap of fresh water and crops, improving our health, reducing environmental damage and getting rid of sandbox for resistant disease/illnesses to grow/evolve...

Twasn't intended as an argument, rather an often overlooked simple fact.

That said: the morality of thus is but being murdered in a brutal fashion by teeth and virii or well-nourished and executed in a controlled manner. ;)
 
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Just got back from a pigeon shoot at a train station (having got fuck all sleep the last two nights, been working all day today and back on at 7:30 later, but that's by the by..). Although feral pigeons are disease ridden vermin with the nest building skills of an amoeba (plus it's my job), it never sits comfortably with me because they form mating pairs for life and at this time they are happily roosting on their shitty pile of twigs. Getting the first one is easy, but obviously the other one fucks off before I can reload, resulting in me chasing it around taking pot shots from ever increasing distances and eventually losing sight of it, not knowing if it's dead, injured, or mourning its murdered partner... :(
 
That said: the morality of thus is but being murdered in a brutal fashion by teeth and virii or well-nourished and executed in a controlled manner. ;)

)

As someone else said, they are bred to eat.

We aren't doing them a favour by keeping them alive, or killing them in a humane way.

The poor bastards shouldn't exist in the first place.
The question of whether it's better to be free and take your chances in a hostile world or be a slave in return for security and comfort would only ever get one response from a cow...

Me, I'd rather see our country side populated with more charismatic native creatures like deer, wild horses and some wolves to keep them in check.
Not likely but there you go.



At furbar.

It says a lot about you that you worry about widowed pigeons. Why not get yourself a falcon to help you out ?
And a cape. It would be a wasted opportunity to have a job that involved guns and falconry if you didn't wear a cape.
 
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<iframe width="420" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/FQMbXvn2RNI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

...
 
How can you tell if someone is a vegan?

Dont worry...they will fucking tell you!
 
There is also the matter of thousands of kilos of edible animal fat going to waste, being burned or buried, while the natural habitat of orang-utans is being destroyed for palm oil. Which is used as a cooking fat, in place of animal fats, to make products that will be consumed mainly by non-vegetarians. The pastry surrounding steak and kidney in a pie might well have been made with palm oil (read: dead orang-utans) while the perfectly-usable fat from the same cow went to waste.

If you are going to be killing animals for food, you should at least endeavour to make as much use as possible of as many parts of them as possible. I consider wasting food a serious sin anyway.
How can you tell if someone is a vegan?

Dont worry...they will fucking tell you!
QFT. It would be more than mildly disingenuous of me to deny utterly that my reversion to eating m**t (but land animals only; I consider fish, marine mammals and especially shellfish thoroughly unclean) gave me any sort of thrill from horrifying the sanctimonious tossers.

By the way, there is a bit of a (real or perceived) gender divide on vegetarianism. If a heterosexual couple are in a restaurant, and the man orders a vegetarian dish and the woman orders m**t, when the food arrives, she will invariably be given the vegetarian meal and he will be presented with the Other. I have direct and indirect experience of this, but it was happening (conveniently? You decide) back in the days before camera phones, let alone instantly uploading your video to YouTube via WiFi or 3G and automatically posting the link on Facebook and Twitter.

EDIT: As I was saying, there is a bit of a gender gap ..... Women are slightly more likely than men to claim to be some sort of vegetarian (on a sort of continuum with exceptions for dairy products, eggs, fish, chicken, turkey at Christmas, ham on pizzas and so forth) whereas men are more likely to claim a stricter discipline (i.e., more likely to be vegan, raw vegan or Even soya mince is bad because it lends an ill-deserved legitimacy to real mince. We should avoid foods made to resemble what we should not eat and more likely to prefer to go hungry than eat something "forbidden").

The origin of these differences is more likely to be social than biological, given that we treat people differently from birth if not sooner (too many parents want to know if their baby is going to be a boy or a girl, before it's even born; why would they even care, unless they have already made up their minds what they want and how they plan to treat it?)
 
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I used to live in an area of Australia that was hippy central so lots of vegans, raw vegans, fruitarians, vegos and people that called themselves vegos but also at fish. The above includes quite a few close friends. I have heard all the diet preaching i can take for this lifetime . I do take some perverse enjoyment in eating a juicy steak in front of them i must admit but i am a born shit stirrer ;)
 
Like Gene Hunt in Ashes to Ashes, eating fish and chips in the cell with a hunger-striking, vegan prisoner?

You really can't beat a good chip, though. The salt on your tongue, the vinegar at the back of the throat, the crisp exterior bursting open at exactly the optimum pressure to disperse the fluffy white potato goodness inside. Truly this must be the Food of the Gods.

Just don't ask what kind of fat they were cooked in, though :sus:
 
I used to live in an area of Australia that was hippy central so lots of vegans, raw vegans, fruitarians, vegos and people that called themselves vegos but also at fish. The above includes quite a few close friends. I have heard all the diet preaching i can take for this lifetime . I do take some perverse enjoyment in eating a juicy steak in front of them i must admit but i am a born shit stirrer ;)

hahahaha I can imsgine you doing that too :)

Evey
 
Like Gene Hunt in Ashes to Ashes, eating fish and chips in the cell with a hunger-striking, vegan prisoner?

You really can't beat a good chip, though. The salt on your tongue, the vinegar at the back of the throat, the crisp exterior bursting open at exactly the optimum pressure to disperse the fluffy white potato goodness inside. Truly this must be the Food of the Gods.

Just don't ask what kind of fat they were cooked in, though :sus:

The best chips I ever had were in a tiny seaside town in Devon, just the perfect mix of crunch and fluff. Absolute heaven, and I've yet to find a chip that compares. Not that other chippies do bad chips, they're just not quite on that same level of amazing.
 
Curious that this topic always boils down to meat eating. Humans kill animals for many, many other reasons. I've been around some questionable animal killings in my life, a couple incidents that stick out in my memory:

When I was in my early 20's, my roommate poisoned our neighbor's dog. This dog barked incessantly for 3 years straight and complaints to the city did absolutely nothing. If you had asked me years prior what I thought about people who did such things, I would've been appalled. But after losing sleep non-stop for 3 years to that shrill poodle's non-stop yapping and developing PTSD about going to sleep, I was so relieved. I didn't participate, I didn't help him carry out the plan, I made sure I wasn't even home when he did it. But I didn't stop him. And it wasn't the dog's fault, it was the owner's fault. The quiet that followed... words cannot convey how peaceful it was.

I lived on an organic farm where there were wild cats killing the chickens and other small livestock. The farm owners put out ethical traps to catch some, but there were so many that they eventually opted for cat food dipped in anti-freeze. No more cat problem. Again, I didn't partake, but I was there.

I love animals, I've had many pets in my life, many companions. I'm one of those "commune with nature" types. But I think humans who value animals over other humans have some problems. I generally won't date guys with dogs because their dogs will always mean more to them than you. It's just a sign of our socially dysfunctional times.

On the flipside, I think animals are lucky in a way that we grant them death more easily... like with euthanasia. I was in Newfoundland with my aunt driving down the dark highway when we hit a moose. The damn thing almost went through the windshield. All its legs were broken and its face was smashed, but it was alive. We called the police and they shot it dead on arrival. Why do humans not get that option?
 
I'm sorry but I'm outraged at people who poison animals. Absolutely disgusting because more often than not, that animal goes through hell before it dies. Here, they have been poisoning cats with antifreeze which I've been told explodes their insides. I get that cats can annoy the hell out of people. My cat annoys me most of the time with her meowing, demands, doing her business if I've forgotten to leave the window open for her at night but so what? I wouldn't hurt the little thing. She may find me annoying the way I sometimes forget the leave the window open for her so she can relieve herself, sleep for long hours (during withdrawals or stim comedowns) so not always able to give her food n drink when she wants it n the way I'm ungrateful that she's brought me a "gift," merely chucking it in the bin n "don't you know I worked hard chasing that rat, chewing it n bringing its remains to you mske your day." :D

The point is just who the hell are we to get annoyed at animals for making natural sounds n feel that we've have the right to hurt that animal in order to get them to stop. Would anyone do this to a screaming baby that cries non-stop for the first two years of his or her life? It does happen. Why not smother them n be done? Because there'd be outcry n rightly so. We'd be hounded as child-killers, murderers, evil scum etc etc etc. But why should there be more opposed reaction to annoying bany than to those pestly cats who urinate on the law each morning, those foxes are always after the chickens smelly rogues lets get some dogs to torture them by tearing them to shreds n enjoy it at the same time "you see we call this a sport." I feel that we're such an arranging n selfish species at tines that it almost has me feeling ashamed to be a human-being, with some of the acts we perform (or allow others to perform) n justify our reasons for doing so.

The dogs next door drive me absolutely crazy with their barking but I would not consider hurting them in any way n if I knew that someone else was going to hurt them, I'd do something about it as I'd feel that I had a responsibility in keeping those dogs safe by knowing that there was threat to their life. Looking bsck at the example I gave of the annoying crying bany, s/he probably is not enjoying this never-ending activity n probably exhausted. S/he may suffer from colic n easily prone colic (trapped wind). Imagine what having trapped wind is like, most of the time we can moan or grumble n whine on n grumble some more when we're unwell but the poor baby can't say what's wrong they can't even say "Mam, I've a tummy-ache n it hurts." All they're able to do to try n get their carer(s) to understand is to make the only sound they know---cry. Often the carer will try feeding which is going to make baby feel worse, changing etc etc. Even winding doesn't necessarily reliecr the colic so the baby is likely to continuing crying as their form of communication n the carer continue to try working out what baby is trying to communicate before they finally understand what bsby is communicating.

OK you're probably thinking "why is she banging on about a crying baby who is probably suffering from colic?" Well lets look back to that annoying dog who continuously barked non-stop n caused annoyance. What was the dog's environment like? Was s/he exercised often? Was s/he getting much attention? Was s/he given sufficient food or drink? Was s/he suffering from any illness / disability? Was s/he being abused or mistreated in any way? Was s/he frightened? Would it not have been possible to have done a little investigating n found if there was another way of ceasing the annoying barbing than resulting to poisoning the poor thing? Was the dog aware of your irritation? Probably not. Was the dog aware that by constantly barking, s/he would be annoying anyone? Probably not. Was the dog more likely using the only sound s/he knew to use, barking, as a way of trying to communicate to someone, anyone, that there was an issue? Likely. There is never any excuse gor poisoning an animal. Even those who are vicious because, more often than not, vicious animals have been mistreated n are either; doing the only thing they know, are frightened or are lashing out due to hurt/upset/anger. Foreigner, I have a lot of respect for you on this site n find your posts intelligent n thought-provking, but in this instance, with the dog I feel you're just as responsible because you knew what they were going to do n allowed ut "because the dogs annoyed you" n no one helped your case - they also failed that poir dog too.

It angers me how we, human beings, feel that we've the right to feel annoyed at animals (myself included here) for doing what is natural to them. We are the ones living in a changed environment that we have created over centuries n expect animals to adopt to our desires, our needs n expectations. How arragont n selfish are we? We have changed so much in the world due to the imtelligence of humans, yet of basic things such as animal-commincation we are still very clueless n backward. We've still a lot to learn.

Evey
 
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I'm sorry but I'm outraged at people who poison animals. Absolutely dosgusting because more often that, that animals goes through hell before it dies. Here, they have been poisoning cata with antifreee which I've been told explodes their insides. I get that cats can annoy the helm out of people. My cat annoys me most of the time with her meowing, denandings, doing her business if I've forgotten to leave the window open for her at night but so what? I wouldn't hurt the lottle thing. She may find me annoying the way I sometimes forget the leave the winfow open for her so she can relieve herself, sleep for long hours (during withdrawals or stim comfowns so not always able to give her food n drink when she wants it n the way I'm ungreatful that she's brought me a "gifyt," merely chucking it in the bin n "don't ye knpw I worked hard chasing that rat, chewing it n bringing its remains to you mske your day." :D

The point is just who the hell are we to get annoyed at animals for making natual siunds n feel that we've the right to hurt that animal in order to get them to stop. Would anyone do this to a screaming baby that cries non-stop for the first two years of his / her life? It does happen. Why not smother them n be done? Because there'd be outcdy n rightly so. We'd be hounded as child-killers, murderes, evil scum etc etc etc. But why should there be more opposed reavtion to annnoying bany than to those pestly cats who urinate on my law each morning, those foxes are always after the chickens smelky rogues lets get some dogs to torture them by tearing them to shreds n enjoy it at the same time "you see we call this a sport." We're such an arragont n selfish spevies at tines that it almost has me feeling ashamed to be human with some of the acts we perform (or allow others to perform) n justify our reasons for doing so.

The dogs next door drive me absolutely craxy with their barking but I would not consider hurting them in any way n if I knew that someone else was going to hurt them but I'd do something about it as I'd feel that I had a responsibility in keeping those dogs safe by knowing that there was threat to their life. Looking bsck at that annoying crying bany again, s/he probably is not enjoying this never-ending activity n more often than not, are probably exhausted. There may have coluc or easily have colic (trapped wind). Imagine whay having trapped wind is like, most of the time we can moan or grumble n whine on n grumble some more. The poor baby can't sau what's wrong they can't even say "Mam, I've a tummy-ache n it hurts" all they're able to do to try n get their caters to understand is to make the only sound they know---cry. Often the caree will try feeding which is going to make baby feel worse, changing etc etc. Even winding doesn't necessarily work if a child suffers from colic.

OK you're probably thinking "why is she banging on about a crying baby who is probably suffering from colic?" Well lets look back to that annoying dog who continuously barked non-stop n caused annoyance. What was the dog's environment like? Was s/he exercised often? Was s/he getting much arrention? Was s/he fed giving sufficient food or drink? Was s/he suffering from any illness / disability? Was s/he being abused or mistreated in amy way? Was s/he frightened? Would it not have been possible to have done a little investigating of your n found other ways of ceasing the annoying barbing than resulting to poisoning the poor thing? Was the dog aware of your irritation? Probably not. Was the dog aware that by constantly bark, s/he would be annoying anyone? Probably not. Was the dog more likely using the only soumd he knew s/he could use, bark, as a way of trying to communivate to someone, anylne, that there was an issue? Likely. There is never any excuse gor poisoning an animal. Even those who are vicious. Because, more often than not, vicious animals have been mistreated n are either; doing the only thing they know, are frightened or are lashing out due to hurt/upset/anger. Foreigner, I have a lot of respect for you on this site n find your posts intelligent n thought-provking, but in this instance, with the dog I feel you're just as responsible because you knew what they were going to do n allowed ut "because the dogs annoyed you" n no one helped your case - they also failed that poir dog too.

It angers me how we, human beings, feel that we've the right to feel annoyed at animals (myself included here) for doing what is natural to them. We are the ones living in a changed environment that we have created over centuries n expect animals to adopt to our desires, our needs n expectations. How arragont n selfish are we? We have changed so much in the world due to the imtelligence of humans, yet of basic things such as animal-commincation we are still very clueless n backward. We've still a lot to learn.

Evey

Evey


How do you feel about poisoning vermin Evey? I do it all the time, and I agree it isn't a particularly nice way to die, but vermin carry lots of nasty diseases that make humans die in very unpleasant ways too...
 
OK you're probably thinking "why is she banging on about a crying baby who is probably suffering from colic?" Well lets look back to that annoying dog who continuously barked non-stop n caused annoyance. What was the dog's environment like? Was s/he exercised often? Was s/he getting much attention? Was s/he given sufficient food or drink? Was s/he suffering from any illness / disability? Was s/he being abused or mistreated in any way? Was s/he frightened? Would it not have been possible to have done a little investigating n found if there was another way of ceasing the annoying barbing than resulting to poisoning the poor thing? Was the dog aware of your irritation? Probably not. Was the dog aware that by constantly barking, s/he would be annoying anyone? Probably not. Was the dog more likely using the only sound s/he knew to use, barking, as a way of trying to communicate to someone, anyone, that there was an issue? Likely. There is never any excuse gor poisoning an animal. Even those who are vicious because, more often than not, vicious animals have been mistreated n are either; doing the only thing they know, are frightened or are lashing out due to hurt/upset/anger. Foreigner, I have a lot of respect for you on this site n find your posts intelligent n thought-provking, but in this instance, with the dog I feel you're just as responsible because you knew what they were going to do n allowed ut "because the dogs annoyed you" n no one helped your case - they also failed that poir dog too.

Honestly, I really don't care about any of this because it's not my responsibility or my problem. We complained to the city 5 times, as did the neighbour on the opposite side. We sent the neighbour letters by registered mail, one of which we paid a lawyer to write. We spoke to the landlord, who himself was a scumbag and didn't care. We even spent $50 to buy one of those infrasonic anti-bark machines that looks like a birdhouse you put on the fence. When the dog barks it lets out a sound only the dog can hear.

I was in school full time and that dog had me on the verge of a nervous breakdown. My roommate was on sleeping pills and SSRIs from all the barking. Imagine, you're on the brink of falling asleep, it's taking over, and then suddenly there's a shrill bark that shocks you awake. Now repeat this 15 times a night, for 3 years, and imagine the frustration when your ghetto white trash neighbour just shrugs it off. That moron put his dog in the backyard and ignored him while he sat in his house drinking beer and stuffing his fat fucking face with fast food. I don't blame my roommate for taking matters into his own hands. The city gives more rights to nuisance animals than it does to the sanctity of the peace, and the sub-human filth living beside us knew that he didn't have to lift a finger to change the situation. I couldn't exactly afford to sue him on my prolific student budget either, otherwise you bet I would've.

I would never poison a dog, I just can't bring myself to do something malicious like that. I've had pet snakes that need to eat mice, or lizards that eat bugs, and I've helped in slaughtering animals on farms, but that's all a different story. I guess I technically have some bad karma for not interfering in my roommate's plan, but at the time I was happy someone else was going to do the dirty work. Do I care though? Nope. My life got so much better when I could be in my own home without being constantly etched away at by high pitched, yappy, deranged dog.

Do you realize that people lose their minds from barking dogs? Especially small ones. It's a recorded phenomenon. It makes even the most rational people crazy.

So don't lecture me. You don't have the moral high ground. Animals are not worth more than humans, especially nuisance animals.

As for babies with colic... I did live with one, and I moved. I generally don't spent large amounts of time with babies or small children because I know I'm not a kid person. However your comparison is flawed because nobody puts their baby in the backyard to cry 24/7 to the chagrin of the neighbours. And babies grow out of colic.
 
I have no problem killing anything I need to survive how I want. Including midges, wasps and annoying people.

Crucify me..
 
I have no problem killing anything I need to survive how I want. Including midges, wasps and annoying people.

Crucify me..
Hey, if someone did crucify you, you'd have the last laugh since that's basically agreeing with you ; )
 
Hey, if someone did crucify you, you'd have the last laugh since that's basically agreeing with you ; )

Crucification would be some way to go. In a hot country and hung for long enough I,d almost be like chorizo ;) rather tasty eh..

So you don,t feel like you're waiting for Hannibal tonight? Maybe it'll be a lucky escape for you:D

Go have fun you x
 
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