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MK Ultra and BZ the "Superhallucinogen"

This drug's only value seems to be as a weapon. I think the effects sound comparable to belladonna, only lasting nearly 3 days. Belladonna was enjoyed I believe by the Manson family back in the day. I guess one man's toxin is another man's psychedelic.
 
Ditran is a pharmacologically very similar agent. Some related 3-piperidinol benzilates ((1-methyl-3-piperidyl)benzilat and (1-ethyl-3-piperidyl)benzilat), are controlled substances in many countries. So it seems at some point in time it was thought that such stimulant/deliriant anticholinergic compounds have some abuse potential. Ditran was used experimentially in the therapy of depression. After a few applications the patients were said to be cured. I suspect, however, that anyone would say that the depression is gone, just to avoid having to take any more of these horror drugs.
 
I suspect, however, that anyone would say that the depression is gone, just to avoid having to take any more of these horror drugs.
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That is so true! Although, out of the anticholinergics, ditran was supposed to be one of the few euphoria producing ones (although by the time you're into full blown hallucinations, the euphoria had chanced to have long gone). Other anticholinergic drugs with a capacity for euphoria are benztropine and orphenadrine - supposedly known for their abuse potential
 
(Anti)cholinergic drugs are very interesting. I just find it hard to put together their modes of action. Does anyone know of a comprehensive text (on- or off-line) that covers the topic?
 
^Hallucinogenic Agents by Brimblecombe and Pinder, Wright-Scientechnica, 1975, offers a good primer.
 
why would you call an anticholinergic "hallucinogenic"?

it wont liquify the basic parts of your reality, enhance your senses, etc

its a deliriant, it LOWERS consciousness, giving dreamlike hallucinations, that you cannot distinguish from reality
 
Doesnt sound like fun. In fact it sounds like amphetamine phsycosis.

Is this really the stuff they based Jacobs Ladder on? So some poor sod had to go thru sumthing like that? Nasty.....
 
Apparently, a couple of thousand poor bastards were subjected to BZ in test co-ordinated by Edgewood Army Arsenal.

Mind you, if you think the US army's proposed use of chemical weapons is bad have a look at this site (psycho's at play!) - and the media sometimes has a go at sites like Bluelight, what about these...

psychos at play
 
fastandbulbous said:
^^ Because under its influence, you do experience true hallucinations...
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i was under the impression that hallucinogenic = psychedelic, not just any drug that produces hallucinations
 
Nope hallucinogenic - producer of hallucinations
psychedelic - to reveal the mind.

Just so happens that a lot of psychedelics also do funny things to vision and its processing
 
we should definitly have this in handheld spray pumps as defense againt cops and DEA. counter-terrorism.
 
i dont know about you guys, but three days tripping doesnt seem that bad as long as you are in safe, comfortable company.

some effects i found:
Auditory hallucinations involving speaking to people who arent there.

Auditory hallucinations involving speaking to objects that may or may not be there.

Minor color differences in the sky and or ocean (blue to green but nothing drastic).

One does not recognize a mirror, and often winds up speaking to the person in the mirror (often getting agitated at the "other person's" repetition of their body movements).

Plants gain a higher intelligence level - people seem to think plants are sentient and will speak with them, associate a personality with them, et cetera.

Forgetting where one is going, yet continuing to go "there."

Animation of inanimate objects - statues, walls, fences, all seem to take on a life of their own and will in fact speak with the user.
 
^^ As I mentioned in an earlier post, I've got a friend who took a large dose of an anticholinergic (datura) while in Crete many years ago - it lasted a few days and he's still occasionally suffering, over a decade later
 
fine, but what if a lower dosage was taken?
also, im not trying to undermine your credibility, but a friend of a guy who posted online isnt going to disauade me totally from using a drug.
also, as im sure your aware, drugs tend to arouse dormant psychosis, could it be your friend was just a closet-nutter?
 
Do you know what a delerium stands for..?

It's NOT the same thing as "tripping".. But go ahead. Find out for yourself.
 
Randomer said:
fine, but what if a lower dosage was taken?
also, im not trying to undermine your credibility, but a friend of a guy who posted online isnt going to disauade me totally from using a drug.
also, as im sure your aware, drugs tend to arouse dormant psychosis, could it be your friend was just a closet-nutter?
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Listen up, there is no fun dose of this drug, just as there's no fun dose of dioxin, sarin, or any other chemical weapon (at least not any I can think of).
 
Do you know what a delerium stands for..?

It's NOT the same thing as "tripping".. But go ahead. Find out for yourself.
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I know this is a harm reduction site, but on this I'm with Blowmonkey's above statement (my friend wasn't/isn't a 'closet nutter', he's one of the least flakey people I know).

So go ahead, knock yourself out, but if you do develop problems, don't come back with whinging posts about feeling perminantly anxious unless you want a chorus of 'we told you so'
 
Fucking christ if you want to take it that bad just do it and don't argue with a name printed on your computer monitor.

It's already pretty obvious you're aware of what everyone else thinks - why is this argument continuing?

Okay I'm done with my piece.
 
Randomer, if there are is one person I would listen to on bluelight, it is Fastandbulbous (and blowmonkey), he knows what he is talking about, a lot better than you do, I have taken datura, which, comparatively mild compared to BZ, is still VERY unpleasant, and not a drug to fuck with.

I can more or less guarantee, that if you were to aqquire BZ, one of two things would happen.

A: you would be found out, and be jailed for a LONG time, for BZ is not a drug, its a chemical weapon, and I believe, banned under the geneva covention as such.

B: you would take the BZ, and either lock yourself into permanently confused, delusional thinking, not knowing if you were still tripping or not, or do yourself some permanent damage and end up a drooling, incontinent vegatable, or possibly kill yourself whilst in a nightmare world of hallucinations.


I really would trust Blowmonkey and F&B on this one, you will seriously regret it if you don't, I guarantee it.


Fastandbulbous, I agree with you about the E&W forum in part, though I don't think all the people there are nescessarily deviant, there are some good people there who the subjects merely interest, I used to be a member there under the name Lestat (I imagine you might know Ibee under that name from another forum I used to buzz around before it went down too;)), although I never posted due to problems with my email or somesuch computer problem, and I saw threads that disturbed me greatly, and some sick shit about people killing innocent animals which I despise, but there are good people there, its only the minority of sick fucks, that ruin things for the rest.

I myself have done stuff like is posted on there, I experimented with very small scale synthesis of sulfur mustard, merely out of interest, and the "thrill" of doing it, didn't mean I ever tested it on a living thing.
 
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