Opioids Methadone or suboxone while kicking off of 140mg oxycodone/day?

[the_ketaman]

A while ago I got some advice here for stopping the oxy which I was taking at +- 150mg/day for more than a month, before that I took it 3/4 times a week around the weekend at that does, and not really during the workweek.

Some other context, sometimes I combine it with smoking some methamphetamine while on oxy, and sometimes some cocaine or 3mmc (a designer drug), but not every day! I do not really like cocaine, and meth gets old quite quickly as well, I tried it for the first time some months ago and I was quite disappointed If you hear the scare stories.. (but that was also the case with oxy)

Back to the problem at hand. When stoppying with the oxy's about a months ago, I used suboxone and cocaine for 2 days:
day 1: 4mg suboxone + 1 gram of cocaine - feeling ok but agitated because of the coke
day 2: 2mg suboxone + 1 gram of cocaine - feeling unrest because of the coke
day 3: took nothing - feeling ok
day 4: took nothing - went for a 5km run at 10kmh at the end of the day, at the end of the day I felt like I couldn't even let the dog out anymore, light feeling of tremors.
day 5: took nothing - felt like shit, no energy with cold shivers sometimes, bigger pupils (and felt huge amount of pain in my uppper left leg) 2 hours of sleep max
day 5: took nothing - felt like shit, no energy with sometimes (and still a huge amount of pain in my upper left leg, so bad it wakes me up with ripping muscle pain) 2 hours of sleep max, the doctor said it is pinched sensory nerve in my hip and put me on paracetamol+diclofenac+**oxycodone**. I did not take the oxy
day 6: took nothing - felt a little better, let the dog out, but the pain in my leg was still huge
day 6: took nothing - felt a little better, but the pain was such a discomfort that I decided to take the oxy again. I slowly titrated from 20mg upward to 40-50mg, which was the dose that was now adequate to suppress the problems.

I was on oxy again for more than 10 days, not because of lack of willpower, but because of pain ~_~.

After that I quit again hoping the pain was away (my condition usually lasts 6 weeks, with the first 2 weeks maximum pain).
So then I decided not to try the suboxone but methadone instead, just to see the difference. I tried Lorne??? his taper:

Day 1: 15mg methadone - feeling OK, not high but the pain went away and felt quite normal, 9hrs of sleep
Day 2: 12.5mg methadone - feeling OK, just a bit tired, 7.30 hours of sleep max
Day 3: 10mg methadone - feeling OK, just a bit tired, 6 hours of sleep max
Day 4: 7.5mg methadone - feeling OK, 100 pushups and went for a 5km run, tired but could only sleep 6h, and woke up in the night
Day 5: 5mg methadone - feeling OK, just a bit tired, 100 pushups again, 6 hours of sleep max and woke up again
Day 6: 2.5mg methadone - feeling OK, went for a 100 pushups + 5km run, quite tired still only 6 hours of sleep
Day 7: nothing - feeling OK, pupils normal, 3 times cold shivers but that's all. Quite tired during the day but more energy in the night, I took 2mg lormetazepam to sleep, but again only 6.5 hours max.
Day 8: nothing - feeling OK, woke up and went for a 5.5k run and it felt amazing, after the run I felt SUPER tired.
**This is where I am now**
The pain is still there but it very manageable.
I know that methadone has a very long half-life, If I use the population average about 1 day and use a half life calculator I should have less than 2.5 methadone in my system as of now. Which is about the equal of 5mg oxycodone. I wonder how coming days will be but I have good faith .


The question is: after how much time should my oxycodone tolerance be back to normal (25mg initial dose)? My plan is to not do anything for the coming two weeks. but I am BORED as hell in the weekends.

I have been on methadone and Suboxone both for extended periods of time. And i can only suggest Suboxone. Methadone makes you really stable until it stops working.
Bupe for me is more sustainable, I live a healthier, less miserable life with wayore freedom and ability to live a fairly normal life now.

 

[angelomorgano]

how long you been using opiates? if not for too long i'd say at least 2 months to reset ur tolerance to baseline.

Since januari 2019 I got oxycodone 5mg subscribed max 4 times per day to manage chest pain due to extreme coughing during pneumonia. I always wanted to try it but I didn't feel anything. When I got one 30x5mg tabs home, I tried bumping up the dose to see what the fuss was all about. I found it quite dissapointing to be honest, just a nice buzz but nothing special. However I used to use coke a bit more and oxycodone was a way to at least do something without fucking up my condition during sports and at least experience some kind of harmless buzz.

I used it a couple of days per week (2 to 3 times fri/sa/sunday) in a dose of 30/40mg per day. In december I used it a bit more due to parties and christmas (up to 100-150mg/day), in january this year I switched back to 3/4 times per week a short while ago but got a bad cold/flu. I noticed that a large dose (60mg) of oxy would fix my symptoms for a while, so I did it for 2.5 weeks straight at that dose (STUPID MISTAKE). I noticed that when I went running, I had some pain in my hip, but the oxy would suppress it. Then I went on detox, and the pain in my hip became extreme, which appeared to be an irritated sensory nerve. During withrawal the pain got really bad but I kept it as it was for about a week, and then started using oxy again at 40mg/day for 8 days, and then started the taper with methadone of lorne (15,12.5,10, 7, 5, 2.5, 0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0), that's where I am at now.

 

[Lorne???]

IM is NOT a waste; the Ba is over 90%. SQ is slightly lower though still effective

I suggest In the muscle if you don't want to IV

 

[angelomorgano]

IM is NOT a waste; the Ba is over 90%. SQ is slightly lower though still effective

I suggest In the muscle if you don't want to IV

Okay, I am kind of confused what to do. At this point I havent used opioids in 2 weeks so I expect my tolerance to be lower (like 30mg oxy instead of 60).
I have 10x10mg ampuls of pure morphine. The packaging says it can be used interavenous, subcutaneous, intramuscular.

Since IV is a step too far for me, but I don't really feel like throwing it away, I decided i might do it subcutaneous (which isn't as hard-core as IV imho).

My questions:
1. what would be right dose to use if i do it subcutaneously? 2 ampuls at once?
2. is intramuscular much better? why? and what would be the recommended dose.

I don't have IM needles, only insulin needles, meant for subcutenous injection.

 

[Lorne???]

Insulin can reach the muscle depending on your body type. And you can get 1.1 inch insulin syringes at the pharmacy, that go right in

However subcutaneous (SQ is the proper abrevation)
Will work just fine Two ampoules is actually a lot, however if you want to get high, yeah, use two ampoules 20mg of morphine is pretty good. I would use 30mg, personally, though I am wacky and I never take a real break,! So;@,, agh

So SQ is fine, however it will take an hour to hit and it doesn't hit as hard as the muscle because it doesn't absorb straight into the bloodstream

Hope this helps....

 

[Lorne???]

I hate to encourage IV use , however you should try it once with Morphine, life is about experience, IMO

 

[Lorne???]

I hate to encourage IV use , however you should try it once with Morphine, life is about experience, IMO

 

[Keif' Richards]

Thanks for taking the time to reply! It's good to know it's not that large of a habit, which helps mentally I guess.
I will try to take nothing at all, and if wd really gets in the way I will see if it's possible to call in sick that day, if not I will take a low dose of methadone to get me through the day.

It is all relative homie. I saw an anti-smoking spot on TV where this ~60 year old woman said "quitting smoking was the hardest thing I've ever done.

My point, I guess, is that it is all about your perspective. I can commit to one shot a day and stick to it. Great. The caveat?

I spend every waking moment thinking about the next shot. I would still be behaving like a fiend even if I wasn't doing drugs.

Willpower is a learned skill. Society seems to think it is just "something you can have ir you just try. Pull yourself up by your boot straps, it's nice outside.

I hate that shit. Ask yourself how your behavior is affecting your life regardless or the drug or dosage. Are you satisfied? Just an opinon.

 

[angelomorgano]

It is all relative homie. I saw an anti-smoking spot on TV where this ~60 year old woman said "quitting smoking was the hardest thing I've ever done.

My point, I guess, is that it is all about your perspective. I can commit to one shot a day and stick to it. Great. The caveat?

I spend every waking moment thinking about the next shot. I would still be behaving like a fiend even if I wasn't doing drugs.

Hi, I know the feeling you are describing. That feeling is most associated with cocaine for me. I don't get a big "rush" or anything from oxy that I am craving to experience again and again, it's just a more comfortable buzz (weed feels literaly 5x harder for me).

Willpower is a learned skill. Society seems to think it is just "something you can have ir you just try. Pull yourself up by your boot straps, it's nice outside.

I hate that shit. Ask yourself how your behavior is affecting your life regardless or the drug or dosage. Are you satisfied? Just an opinon.

About the willpower:
I can usually keep myself to only using in the weekends and I do not always use the same thing (sometimes it's XTC, speed, meth, coke, GHB, mushrooms, ketamine, weed, benzo's, phenibut, 3mmc, 2cb, lsd etc). However, I hardly ever drink alcohol, I don't like it.
I even smoke only in the weekends, and on monday I couldn't even think of smoking at work. Once in a while I use during the week (for example during a championsleague match on a wednesday). If I feel myself using too much, then I decide to stop for a multiple weeks alltogether to give my body some 'rest'.
I still work out about 3 to 4 times per week (running, gym, hiit).

Sometimes that behavior makes working out a little harder cause it's a hit on your physical "condition" (especially smoking), and oxy is a nice replacement because it doesn't fuck you up so much as xtc for example, but you do get to chillout for a bit.

Summary I do look forward to the weekend to relax and enjoy myself. But I enjoy myself going to work and working out without any drugs, so in general I can say my life is good (good job, girlfriend, generally happy, etc.).

What fucked things up is CORONA. I am now sitting inside, quite bored. I do go out and play some football with friends while keeping distance sometimes and that's the highlight of the day. Due to corona I do smoke almost everyday now, and that habit is actually the worst imho.

Also, if I commit to not doing anything for 3 weeks, then my cravings are also hugely reduced.

The way it affects my life would be that I sometimes decide not to go for a walk in the woods, but instead to some dope at home. But sometimes I would combine the two

 

[angelomorgano]

today at 14:00 I did about 17.5 mg of morphine (a little bit less than 2 ampules) SQ in my belly fat. after 1.5 hours feel nothing, maybe sligthly warmer glow.
at 15:30 I just did the remaining 2.5 + half of another ampul SQ, so about an addtional 6-7mg SQ.

I don't know much extra I should take and how long to wait to redose. Kind of disappointing. I am afraid if I would redose another ampul right now it wouldn't even work because the previous dose is probably already wearing off.

 

[Toastytoasty]

I have 2 8 mg Suboxone strips should I take them both at the same time for a high?

 

[nznity]

today at 14:00 I did about 17.5 mg of morphine (a little bit less than 2 ampules) SQ in my belly fat. after 1.5 hours feel nothing, maybe sligthly warmer glow.
at 15:30 I just did the remaining 2.5 + half of another ampul SQ, so about an addtional 6-7mg SQ.

I don't know much extra I should take and how long to wait to redose. Kind of disappointing. I am afraid if I would redose another ampul right now it wouldn't even work because the previous dose is probably already wearing off.

I told you....ampoules are meant to be IVd or you're just wasting good dope.

 

[angelomorgano]

Thats a

Damn you're lucky AF that u were able to find it. Im in south FL so down here unless you go t a clinic all ull find in the street in suboxone but hey IM SO GLAD to hear that youre feeling good 11 days later! It gives me hope!!!! Keep it up!

Methadone and Suboxone are both great for tapering and suppressing withdrawal imho. Both especially requires the right dose, but methadone gets you high and you don't want to be stuck to that.

 

[angelomorgano]

I have 2 8 mg Suboxone strips should I take them both at the same time for a high?

I guess this totally depends on your tolerance for opiates. I was used to 100-150mg oxy for a couple of weeks, and one 4mg suboxone was enough to suppress all the symptoms for 1 to 2 days! Taking 2x8 seems like a lot unless you take super high doses of oxy or a lot of heroin. Also, to get high it doesn't really work because buprenophine has a ceiling effect, meaning that it doesn't get you higher if you increase the dose. So not much recreational value there.

 

[angelomorgano]

I told you....ampoules are meant to be IVd or you're just wasting good dope.

I've ordered some IM needles cause IV is not for me. I still have to try the IM route, but I am scared of hitting a nerve and I don't really know what place would be best. A friend which did steroids said he did it in his own ass for about 200 times and never hit a nerve, he says it's the best spot because there are not that many nerves.

Since I got some heroin laying around for some months now, I decided to try that for the first time right now, I just sniffed 3 mini lines, but still feel nothing. I guess I have some cross tolerance from the oxy. I am extra careful since I don't know how pure it is (although it looks like a nice brown powder with some hard small rocks in it), so I am starting small to check if there is any fent in it, I also have a narcan ready in case it goes wrong.

 

[nznity]

I've ordered some IM needles cause IV is not for me. I still have to try the IM route, but I am scared of hitting a nerve and I don't really know what place would be best. A friend which did steroids said he did it in his own ass for about 200 times and never hit a nerve, he says it's the best spot because there are not that many nerves.

Since I got some heroin laying around for some months now, I decided to try that for the first time right now, I just sniffed 3 mini lines, but still feel nothing. I guess I have some cross tolerance from the oxy. I am extra careful since I don't know how pure it is (although it looks like a nice brown powder with some hard small rocks in it), so I am starting small to check if there is any fent in it, I also have a narcan ready in case it goes wrong.

IM on your calves........even a 10 y/o kid can do that.

 

[nznity]

seriously what a waste of pure morphine though.....

 

[jnhjnh517]

Please don't make the mistake I did and go on the program plainly for opiate ADDICTION, not Dependence. It sounds like you could manage by, first finding the dose that makes you just comfortable, then taking that dose every time you feel withdrawals to be at a moderate discomfort. And keep trying to space out the days as long as possible and at the same time lowering your dose. What I'm trying to say is don't going on the program unless you are fully physically dependent, because then one day you will know what it truly feels to be dependent. You could also give Pregabalin or Clonidine a try. They work for both titration and withdrawals Ask your doctor or the addiction doctor.

I made that mistake with Percocet, using up to 3 times a week for 3 years (20mg to 100mg a day). I was 6 days without and ended up higher than a kite on my first dose of Suboxone. Maybe my replies too late but I hope I can help. If you have any questions just ask me.

edit: Sorry I had just skimmed you post and missed the part about you using oxy for 2+ weeks. I would say that's borderline of physical dependency and if you can still make it a couple of days without than that's still a good sign. If you have to try going on suboxone for one week only, enough time to detox the oxy but not enough time to become dependent on suboxone. AVOID METHADONE AT ALL COST.

 

[angelomorgano]

Please don't make the mistake I did and go on the program plainly for opiate ADDICTION, not Dependence. It sounds like you could manage by, first finding the dose that makes you just comfortable, then taking that dose every time you feel withdrawals to be at a moderate discomfort. And keep trying to space out the days as long as possible and at the same time lowering your dose. What I'm trying to say is don't going on the program unless you are fully physically dependent, because then one day you will know what it truly feels to be dependent. You could also give Pregabalin or Clonidine a try. They work for both titration and withdrawals Ask your doctor or the addiction doctor.

I made that mistake with Percocet, using up to 3 times a week for 3 years (20mg to 100mg a day). I was 6 days without and ended up higher than a kite on my first dose of Suboxone. Maybe my replies too late but I hope I can help. If you have any questions just ask me.

edit: Sorry I had just skimmed you post and missed the part about you using oxy for 2+ weeks. I would say that's borderline of physical dependency and if you can still make it a couple of days without than that's still a good sign. If you have to try going on suboxone for one week only, enough time to detox the oxy but not enough time to become dependent on suboxone. AVOID METHADONE AT ALL COST.

I have tried both and find methadone works quite well, suboxone also works quite well. If you read a few posts back you can see the methadone taper I used with success.

I was on oxy for about 2/3 weeks at 140mg per day, and used it 3 times per week de year before. When I quit I did feel withdrawal and couldn't really be useful at all, an unpleasant feeling of discomfort, no sleep and supertiredness. The methadone took that all away and after the methadone taper of 6 days I felt a little tired but fine!

 

[dopamimetic]

Anybody of you having experiences with a dissociative drug (ketamine, DXM, MXE etc)? There is evidence for that these receptors do directly interact with opioid tolerance and you could literally skip a good part of the withdrawal, symptoms and pain. Other possibility is memantine, which every doctor could prescribe and has less psychoactive effects but too is less potent than the classical dissociatives.

This worked recently for me, I went off 200mg/d (was on it for around 18 months) morphine to zero directly just with memantine. No physical withdrawal (and I did get symptoms when skipping a dose or just even take it on noon instead of morning), no diarrhea but some remaining anxiety, wiredness and tension so adding clonidine would be beneficial. What I don't know yet is if it works for most or only part of the people, that would explain why it's barely ever used in clinical practice and even addiction pros often never heard of, but my bet is more on other reasons as there are many papers out there with good statistics and it works in animals too.

Some reports exist around here too, people using DXM, long lasting dissociatives to take away withdrawal. If you continue them for as long as the w/d would last, you skip most of it and possibly even the memory effect, in that after a relapse you wouldn't experience increased strength of withdrawal but that's possibly an unconfirmed theory atm.