Opioids Methadone or suboxone while kicking off of 140mg oxycodone/day?

[kinkyjohn]

Also worth noting: 95% of us opiate addicts thought we were different. No one is different when it comes to Oxycodone. Oxycodone is one of the most addicting substances on the Earth. I remember reading a study of some absurd amount of users became dependent and addicted on it.

There's a reason the main pharmaceutical companies responsible for the Oxycodone / Oxycontin push are bankrupt due to lawsuits... that drug created the heroin / fentanyl / overdose / death epidemic that is today.

I'm here to tell you that once in the rabbit hole, recreational Opiate use is a myth. Maybe the first year of some fun weekends sniffing percs existed, but they won't for long. If you don't give up all opiates permanently now, I would bet my bank account on the fact you'll be among us lifers.

I agree and lets be honest .. the OP is likely gonna turn into a full on opiate addict at some point. I chipped H for 10 years .. and only survived so long as I grew up with OCD so have off the chart mental dissociation / control abilitiles. In the end tough life circumstances which made me enough money for a habit - got me full time. Although you really need to be able to dissociate to cope with cravings one thing that will help is to have rules about when and how much you take .. e.g. every weekend. It'll work as long as you stick to them .. and they will help localise cravings. You'll want dope like crazy on Friday evening at 5:55pm (or whenever your weekend starts) but you'll hardly think about it on Monday.

I would also suggest to the OP that methadone maintenance is a wonderful way to stabilise an out of control habit (by all means go back to the dope afterwards) and buprenorphine is the GOD of withdrawal drugs but only if you haven't been habituated to it for a LONG time. As such .. avoid those drugs as much as possible for now as you may seriously need them .. and methadone is dangerous if taken unstably - plus it's valuable to have an opiate you "don't get high on," as that makes it much easier to avoid the cravings to redose till everything's bitching thing. Just getting methadone from a pharmacy once a day breaks the whole .. score .. get high .. get higher .. get higher thing. Sometimes you just need to get your habit under control .. and maintenance is good for that.

I also once had a fentanyl withdrawal that presented like cholera and bupe was the only drug that could get me even slightly well .. it got me through it with hardly andy screaming. I even knew who and where I was most of the time .. and had some sensory inputs that weren't just pain / violent expulsion of the stomach and intensitines. Since bupe also reduces opiate withdrawal symptoms but has it's own largely independent withdrawal (maybe not true of all opiates or for all people .. but certainly true for me .. every time) I rapid taperd the bupe to opiate naive in two weeks with only a days bad withdrawal from that bat shit crazy fent habit. The above is less or not true if you are / have been habituated to bupe so avoid bupe maintenance like the plague and never use it for more than two weeks. Bupe is also NOT safe if you are a fentanyl user as it's super easy to kill yourself by dosing through bupe .. as even with the huge difference in half lives it's easy to take enough fent you'll die when the bupe wears off (especially with carfent as it has a cheeky 8 hour half life).Thankfully .. there's less fent around these days - but still worth noting.

 

[angelomorgano]

I agree and lets be honest .. the OP is likely gonna turn into a full on opiate addict at some point.

likely maybe, but not certainly

I would also suggest to the OP that methadone maintenance is a wonderful way to stabilise an out of control habit (by all means go back to the dope afterwards)

What do you mean with 'methadone maintenance'? Doesn't that mean continually taking it forever just as a replacement for heroin/oxy/fent?

I also once had a fentanyl withdrawal that presented like cholera and bupe was the only drug that could get me even slightly well .

That sounds quite bad. Personally I have tried bupe only twice (4mg sublingual and 2mg sublingual), it does make you feel like just "normal" if you feel withdrawal. I am not planning to take.

 

[kinkyjohn]

likely maybe, but not certainly

Good luck .. I'm sure some manage it .. but better to be realistic. A lot of what drives addiction is unrealistic expectations - is being an addict that bad a thing for you (maybe you're terminally ill .. or suicidal) ... is there a life circumstance you can change to take the pressue off so you don't feel the need to use. Regular opiate use really isn't that bad in an of itself .. but it's illicit nature means you need a lot of money, and the supply can be up and down in quality, availability and that can fuck your life hard.

What do you mean with 'methadone maintenance'? Doesn't that mean continually taking it forever just as a replacement for heroin/oxy/fent?

It can mean that and it is the official line, but in most countries they are realisitic about it and don't mind if you go on it for 6 months just to stop spending money like crazy and stabilise your habit. Having it supplied regularly from a pharmacy stops you getting fucked up all the time .. stops supply problems and stabilises your life. Sometimes shit goes bad in life .. and that bad gets hellish if you're constantly bouncing off opiate withdrawal. Sometimes you need to be there for people .. or to take opportunities. Methadone can let you do that if you are a total opiate freak. Going back to dope is fine once it's dealt with - but it's far more likely you'll decide you want less of it in your life if e.g. you get a challenging and interesting new project to work on and so you should try and avoid being pushed into a pattern of methadone use if you ever go for it. People respect it if you state up front what you want from it .. e.g. I've been smoking too much / getting needle freeked and need some down time for my health so want to take it for 6 months. Most doctors will be sympathetic of that.

That sounds quite bad. Personally I have tried bupe only twice (4mg sublingual and 2mg sublingual), it does make you feel like just "normal" if you feel withdrawal. I am not planning to take.

My WD was off the scale .. but I was constantly offsetting huge overdoses with long meth runs and built the most bat shit crazy tolerance in six months. I've head of others with similar withdrawals. Most opiate users never see them .. but the fact remains bupe is a godsend if you need to take a short break as you can get opiate free in 2 weeks with minimal discomfort. You might just need to get your tolerance down .. or you might be getting drug tested. By all means take a bit when your in withdrawal .. but don't use it at other times and don't maintain.

 

[angelomorgano]

Thanks for the clarifications. Makes sense

 

[kinkyjohn]

Thanks for the clarifications. Makes sense

My pleasure ... sorry for the hard to read mess. I am not always that with it.

New users are worth the most effort in my opinion. Being an addict doesn't have to be a terrible thing .. but it's important you enter it knowingly and retain the idea it was your choice and that means being prepared for dealing with the shit. If not .. you won't be able to take the shit with good and there's a lot of shit in being a junky. You need to still have friends / lovers / family .. and dope is a great way to lose them. I've lost none of my important friends .. but that's because I have enough money so never had to steal, and because I am happy to be a junky and confident in it so I am honest e.g. I may cancel plans at short notice because I've got the sickness .. whilst it's not great nobody is gonna dump you for that unless they aren't your friend. And if there is a crisis I go on methadone and deal with my share of the shit .. I was recently looking after a close friend who had breast cancer. Could only do it cos I went on maintenance and we were both much happier for the break from each other when I arranged some care cover for a weekend so I could go scratch my getting really fucking high itch. Naturally highly strung people are often much nicer to be around when they are a well satiated junky with enough gear in hand.

 

[angelomorgano]

My pleasure ... sorry for the hard to read mess. I am not always that with it.

New users are worth the most effort in my opinion. Being an addict doesn't have to be a terrible thing .. but it's important you enter it knowingly and retain the idea it was your choice and that means being prepared for dealing with the shit. If not .. you won't be able to take the shit with good and there's a lot of shit in being a junky. You need to still have friends / lovers / family .. and dope is a great way to lose them. I've lost none of my important friends .. but that's because I have enough money so never had to steal, and because I am happy to be a junky and confident in it so I am honest e.g. I may cancel plans at short notice because I've got the sickness .. whilst it's not great nobody is gonna dump you for that unless they aren't your friend. And if there is a crisis I go on methadone and deal with my share of the shit .. I was recently looking after a close friend who had breast cancer. Could only do it cos I went on maintenance and we were both much happier for the break from each other when I arranged some care cover for a weekend so I could go scratch my getting really fucking high itch. Naturally highly strung people are often much nicer to be around when they are a well satiated junky with enough gear in hand.

Seems like a good way to go about it. I agree that real friends wouldn't leave you for this unless you become a stealing/backstabbing kind of friend. I would never be like that, if I would really become a full blown addict I would not pin that on my friends by stealing/backstapping. All my friends know I use oxy, but we all have a history of using all types (everything except opoids) of drugs regularly (at parties or on trip-weekends, every couple of weeks). Some of my friends really love speed, others like weed more, another prefers coke, I prefer oxy as the others have too much impact on the days after. My girldfriend lives with me and knows my habits and supports me. She doesn't use anything herself except occasionally some weed, pills or speed at parties.

Meanwhile:
Day 6 without any opiod. Still feel ok, and last 8 days I went running 4 times and played football with some friends so I'm getting fitter again, feeling OK but also super bored still can't sleep more than 5/6 hours which really pisses me off (even meds like clonodine 0.1mg, lormetazepam 2mg, seroquel 25mg, don't really help) I wake up tired but can't fall asleep anymore... I do have 1x7.5mg or and 1x15mg tabs of midazolam (versed/dormicum) which could maybe knock me out, but somehow I feel the best way is just to accept it and wait till it returns to normal..

 

[draculic acid69]

Yes certain drs give methadone scripts.yes u can go get one from a Dr.
Yes u will have to find a Dr who can prescribe it.not that hard just contact a clinic and they'll tell you which Dr to see.yes u will also have to go to a clinic initially but coz u work u should be eligible for takeaways.might take a few days though as the first 3 days are monitored doses to see how u respond and to get the dose right.suboxone can be gross shit and is nothing like sweet sweet methadone.look into it.

 

[Keif' Richards]

Angelo, I'm very proud of you and your accomplishment. My advice is to not take Opioids again. The time it takes to develop a dependence gets shorter and the intensity of the withdrawal more potent with each successive detox.

Are there any other options you can explore for the pain? What have you tried?

 

[kaosisallwesee]

Meanwhile:
Day 6 without any opiod. Still feel ok, and last 8 days I went running 4 times and played football with some friends so I'm getting fitter again, feeling OK but also super bored still can't sleep more than 5/6 hours which really pisses me off (even meds like clonodine 0.1mg, lormetazepam 2mg, seroquel 25mg, don't really help) I wake up tired but can't fall asleep anymore... I do have 1x7.5mg or and 1x15mg tabs of midazolam (versed/dormicum) which could maybe knock me out, but somehow I feel the best way is just to accept it and wait till it returns to normal..

You'll feel better and better each day if you're past the peak, until one day you wake up and feel amazing! Realising you're happy as fuck, slept well, have no PAWS, and can put that shit behind you forever. I really suggest against using at all once you're over withdrawals. I relapsed twice thinking I could just use one time. I failed and went back to daily use. Luckily I stopped before it became a physical addiction again. Please listen to the advice you asked for and stop all opioid use, you'd be stupid and naive to think you can use once a week.

 

[Keif' Richards]

You're pretty much at the finish line. I agree that the inability to sleep is a major bitch. You will start sleeping more and more each day, and soon, you'll wake up and realize its over!

 

[CfZrx]

Seroquel makes sleep ez in WD from opioids.

 

[angelomorgano]

Hi Lorne??? You seem very knowledgeable & id like to share w u an inquiry i sent to kinkyjohn ( i found him 1st) n if u don't mind i would REALLY appreciate some input from you as well. Please excuse my ignorance but im going to do a copy & paste of the post i sent him. Because i dont know how to use this yet, in other words i dont know bluelight yet sufficiently that id know how to include you in the conversation. ANY INPUT from your part would be much appreciated please & thank you. Here it goes:

Hi there kinkyjohn, you seem to know what you're talking about& im simply a girl trying to get as much info as I can by reading these posts in order to decide if I should taper with Subutex or Methadone (ive never tried methadone). And i wanted to pick your brain a little if you don't mind please bcuz I need some guidance. I have a pretty bad H/Fent habit of about 10 times a day ($100 a day habit now constantly AGAIN for the past 5 months. I had been clean but relapsed so its been on & off for a few yrs now). Unfortunately I don't have insurance so i cant go t detox! (FML) so my only choice is to taper on my own. My plan is to see a doctor & get a script and to do a taper, i've tapered on suboxone on my own before but i hate it cuz it makes me feel like im on meth! I cant eat or sleep on it and i ALWAYS have precipitated WD's! I once waited a day and 1/2 and still went into pwd!!! So since ive done subutex tapers at detox before id like to possibly go this route. Im sorry to just barge in on ur conversation but I REALLY WANT TO STOP! I NEVER WANT T B IN THIS SITUATION AGAIN but im really unsure of what i need to do. As you can see its not my 1st rodeo though. Here's what id like to know about methadone if you're familiar w it; 1) Can i go to a dr & get a script for it? Bcuz all ive heard is about people having to go t a clinic everyday & i gota work so thats not gona work. 2) I cant miss work so my plan is to stop on a friday so i can start during the wkend & b stabilized by monday. So, Can i do a 5-7,day methadone taper and work during tapering PLUS simply stop AFTER THE 5/7 Day taper with the WD not being so brutal afterwards that i can continue working? WORK IS A CONCERN, ive never done it before so idk how im gona feel. 3) Do i have to be sick for X amount of time prior to taking it as i would w Subs. I want to do a taper bcuz i dont want to be dependent on anything. I just wana be clean!!!! So im trying to do figure out how i can successfully do this and keep my job. I had a bad experience a year and a half ago where i had an amazing job, killer apt, nice car, my life was set and i lost EVERYTHING to this fkn drug! I went to rehab for 2 months (had insurance thru my job then) got clean, and slowly started to rebuild. Im now again in a position where i have a decent job and my own place again n worked really hard t get here! A year later started playing w fire again by doing it "recreationally" again and i got fkd! I cant believe im here again, im so disappointed in myself that id end up here again. I now know that there's no such thing as doing it "recreationally" its bullshit. I want OUT but i NEED t b able to do this without losing my independence and all I've worked so hard to rebuild! Please let me know ur thoughts, i would SOOO APPRECIATE some input and guidance PLEASE. Ive now been physically dependent since January and so its now been 5 months and I truly wana stop and never touch this shit again. Ive also noticed its more mental this time, i have a lot of anxiety. I had the worst experience of my life 3 yrs ago, my brother and i were on a binge and he overdosed and died on day 2 in front of me and that really fucked me up so that's really affected me, its made me a really nervous person so i also plan to start taking supplements for my anxiety after im out of this mess. Dude, im just ready to STOP like yesterday. I should know better you'd think right.

EDIT: And I beg of you, please dont ignore my msg based on my history. I realize that u guys must see people all the time who say they wana quit but dont. I promise you that im truly serious about it. If u knew how fucked up i was before ud see how far i came to rebuild all that i had lost, including THE most precious person to me which was my brother. I REFUSE to let 5 months dictate the rest of my life. I fucked up! But now its time to move forward and pay the piper. I know its gona suck but im SO TIRED of this. Its lost its allure in every way. So any advice would really help im looking to do this Asap. Also not sure if this is relevant but i only snort it, im terrified of needles so thats never been an option.

I haven't really detoxed using suboxone really. I did it using methadone (bought it off the street in 40mg tabs). I used Lorne's taper of 6 days and by weighing the tables and breaking them up so that I would have exactly the doses as he suggested.

My experience is that I did not get high, and it sort of slowly let me off the hook. The day after my last dose (which was only 2.5mg) I did feel tired and felt like not doing anything. I could still work but it cost me some effort . The most annoying thing is lack of sleep because you do not feel rested, and any uppers do not really help because they make WD worse. Anyway 3 days after my last dose I felt better and better.

If you have the methadone, I would plan your taper such that the last dose of methadone is on a thursday or friday. That stuff has a long half life (24-28hrs on average), so it will take a while for some milder withdrawals to pop-up, and you want to have those in the weekend! Somebody else should advise you for the correct dosages, and don't let the taper go on for too long!

My taper ended 11 days ago and I still haven't used any opiods and I feel relatively good.

 

[nznity]

This is a real bummer. I think I won't be able to give it up alltogether but this will keep myself better in-line (i hope). Maybe it's just a stupid assumption, but If use only in the weekends then I expect no withdrawals.



I live in the netherlands, according to the stats we only have about 11000 heroin addicts, which is quite low. It was also quite hard to find the heroin as all dealers avoid that shit like crazy. It has quite a bad stigma. Most dealers here have literally everything except opiods. I haven't heard of heroin being mixed with fent here.


I admit that I took oxy way to much which started with being sick and it suppressed my sickness symptoms, but me being able to go without for a while is proof for myself that I can go back to using it recreationally, and making sure my tolerance doesn't skyrocket.

I've tried fentanyl nosespray about 2/3 months ago, but I found fentanyl super bland, don't really see why ppl would prefer that over oxy. I've also tried methadone and bupe, not that special. Even oxy is just "meh" but it's definatelly better than nothing , and I do need something to spend my time with in the weekends (which used to be coke which did more harm imho). I also have a couple 10mg pure morphine ampuls for injection, although I do not want to start injecting, I will try those in my bellyfat subcutaneously, because I don't see another way. Drinking them will probably not do any good?

Anyway, that's why I am not that scared of heroin, as I was before I have ever used opiods. And money is not that much of a concern, luckily

I really hope I can prove to be different



BTW, this is day 5 with nothing, and yesterday I suddenly felt a turning point during the day where the lethargy went away and suddenly felt awesome Sleep is still out of wack, 4-6 hours per night

if i was you, i'd bang those morphine ampoules. You're gonna waste them subcutaneously or IM. IV is the only way to go with thoseee, very rare to obtain.

 

[angelomorgano]

Angelo, I'm very proud of you and your accomplishment. My advice is to not take Opioids again. The time it takes to develop a dependence gets shorter and the intensity of the withdrawal more potent with each successive detox.

Are there any other options you can explore for the pain? What have you tried?

You'll feel better and better each day if you're past the peak, until one day you wake up and feel amazing! Realising you're happy as fuck, slept well, have no PAWS, and can put that shit behind you forever. I really suggest against using at all once you're over withdrawals. I relapsed twice thinking I could just use one time. I failed and went back to daily use. Luckily I stopped before it became a physical addiction again. Please listen to the advice you asked for and stop all opioid use, you'd be stupid and naive to think you can use once a week.

You're pretty much at the finish line. I agree that the inability to sleep is a major bitch. You will start sleeping more and more each day, and soon, you'll wake up and realize its over!

Thanks for the support guys. I think I am already over any withdrawals for the past 10 days. I feel generally good except the lack of sleep because my nose is a bit congested and I wake up with a dry mouth ~_~. My nerve pain is also decreasing and I am off any paracetamol and diclofenac as well.

I know it's against all advice here, but as I said before I do not plan on giving it up completely. It's not that I don't respect you guys because the support you gave me really helped me in figuring out a game plan.

Nevertheless I believe that I got dependent on it because of getting a bad cold and masking the symptoms of it with oxy too long. I kinda knew and it was plain stupid, and I will do my utmost best not to get there again. If I do, then that's on me and only me, and you have every right to call me stupid and naive!

I also have a friend who was addicted to speed and another to coke. They were both told in the clinics not to ever use again, and they both can do it occasionally now (once monthly or so). I know opiates are a different thing, but it's not impossible.

 

[nznity]

I haven't really detoxed using suboxone really. I did it using methadone (bought it off the street in 40mg tabs). I used Lorne's taper of 6 days and by weighing the tables and breaking them up so that I would have exactly the doses as he suggested.

My experience is that I did not get high, and it sort of slowly let me off the hook. The day after my last dose (which was only 2.5mg) I did feel tired and felt like not doing anything. I could still work but it cost me some effort . The most annoying thing is lack of sleep because you do not feel rested, and any uppers do not really help because they make WD worse. Anyway 3 days after my last dose I felt better and better.

If you have the methadone, I would plan your taper such that the last dose of methadone is on a thursday or friday. That stuff has a long half life (24-28hrs on average), so it will take a while for some milder withdrawals to pop-up, and you want to have those in the weekend! Somebody else should advise you for the correct dosages, and don't let the taper go on for too long!

My taper ended 11 days ago and I still haven't used any opiods and I feel relatively good.

If you really want to use opiates again, You should wait at least 6 months to start again with a fresh Tolerance. THere's something called the "Kindling effect Though", like sekio said your brain makes these changes and remembers your past dependece. Each and everytime you start to use, you get hooked faster. For example if i use 3 consecutive days i start wding bad. Just like oopiatekiller said once you been there a few times, recreational opiate use is a myth.

 

[nznity]

Thanks for the support guys. I think I am already over any withdrawals for the past 10 days. I feel generally good except the lack of sleep because my nose is a bit congested and I wake up with a dry mouth ~_~. My nerve pain is also decreasing and I am off any paracetamol and diclofenac as well.

I know it's against all advice here, but as I said before I do not plan on giving it up completely. It's not that I don't respect you guys because the support you gave me really helped me in figuring out a game plan.

Nevertheless I believe that I got dependent on it because of getting a bad cold and masking the symptoms of it with oxy too long. I kinda knew and it was plain stupid, and I will do my utmost best not to get there again. If I do, then that's on me and only me, and you have every right to call me stupid and naive!

I also have a friend who was addicted to speed and another to coke. They were both told in the clinics not to ever use again, and they both can do it occasionally now (once monthly or so). I know opiates are a different thing, but it's not impossible.

If you really wanted to chip, once or twice a month should be the MAX you could do it and not get dependent. But we've all tried that before and ended doing em everyday. haha

 

[angelomorgano]

if i was you, i'd bang those morphine ampoules. You're gonna waste them subcutaneously or IM. IV is the only way to go with thoseee, very rare to obtain.

Can't say I'm not curious, but I won't start banging cause I feel that's what could make it go out of control.

If you really want to use opiates again, You should wait at least 6 months to start again with a fresh Tolerance. THere's something called the "Kindling effect Though", like sekio said your brain makes these changes and remembers your past dependece. Each and everytime you start to use, you get hooked faster. For example if i use 3 consecutive days i start wding bad. Just like oopiatekiller said once you been there a few times, recreational opiate use is a myth.

Interesting! I didn't know about the name 'kindling effect', I will research that. However, I am planning on doing the ampules tomorrow, let's say I would do it for 2/3 days and then quit for another 2 weeks, I do not expect any withrdawals then.. If that would be the case then it's really fucked up, 6 months is quite long..

 

[angelomorgano]

And by the way? why would subcutaneaous be wasting them?

 

[nznity]

And by the way? why would subcutaneaous be wasting them?

the rush from morphine ampoules is 10/10, on par with heroin.

 

[nznity]

Can't say I'm not curious, but I won't start banging cause I feel that's what could make it go out of control.




Interesting! I didn't know about the name 'kindling effect', I will research that. However, I am planning on doing the ampules tomorrow, let's say I would do it for 2/3 days and then quit for another 2 weeks, I do not expect any withrdawals then.. If that would be the case then it's really fucked up, 6 months is quite long..

how long you been using opiates? if not for too long i'd say at least 2 months to reset ur tolerance to baseline.