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Stimulants Meth purity in the US over time, what's your experience? (Poll)

In your anecdotal experience, has meth become better or worse in the last 10-20 years?

  • Meth is better and more pure than ever compared to the past

    Votes: 10 14.7%
  • Meth feels different, has a worse high or more side effects compared to the past

    Votes: 23 33.8%
  • Meth is worse now, less pure

    Votes: 18 26.5%
  • It's different every time, hard to say

    Votes: 13 19.1%
  • Other (please explain in post)

    Votes: 4 5.9%

  • Total voters
    68

Snafu in the Void

Moderator: NMI Bukowski Jr.
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By all accounts according to the DEA meth has become increasingly more pure in the last 10 years in the US according to seizure analysis. However, this is a bit contradictory to both my experience and almost all of the anecdotal experiences I've seen from others on BL and elsewhere. I am curious what causes this disparity or what is going on.

Cartels have switched back to using the p2p method of synthesis (aka "biker meth"), which is notorious for impurities namely in the creation of large amounts of L-methamphetamine. This can, however, be removed from the product but this can only be done by advanced methods and equipment which is not something a smaller level chemist might do.

I think it's important to distinguish between what the DEA is seizing/testing, and what the end users are smoking, what the low level dealer is selling.

I am particularly looking for opinions from people who have used meth both in the past and recently. It would also be relevant to share what part of the country you are from.

If you are from Canada or Mexico your answer might be relevant as well, but I'm most interested in the US.
 
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I live in Ontario Canada and my personal experience with methamphetamine is that it has become much cleaner and more potent than it has ever been say compared to 3 years ago. The cost is still $10 per point or 100 mg which has not changed since I started using it years ago.
 
Get the Meth from California I live on the East Coast

I like it but I wouldn't even classify meth as a hard drug. Maybe its because I snort it but I've never felt any much of a euphoria just a lifting of my mood to pleasant.

In terms of quality something is going on either with the drug or in my mind. I remember Adderall blowing me away when I first tried it. But since the first time I snorted meth 18 months ago and almost everyday since for me it lifts my mood but can not be compared with the top level of drugs that get you fucked up like coke, crack, heroin.

I treat it like a narcolepsy pill because if go a day without it just pass out asleep almost instantly.

It also isn’t that addictive. I went a few weeks without it and my only complaint was fighting to not fall asleep like an old man even with 8-9 hours of sleep.

Price continues to drop it’s insane. 8 grams is not alot of money but it lasts me about 3 months. I spend more money on alcohol(package stores not bars) in a month then 3 months of meth. Ive spent more in one night on crack or coke.

I read the book The Least of Us about the meth being mass produced using p2p and other articles online and all the meth users say its crap and you hallucinate and the old ephedrine meth was more of a warm high.

If I snort too much and domt sleep I will hallucinate and feel worse. But its mostly the sleep deprivation that causes hallucination. If I woke up from 9 hours of sleep and did ten lines I doubt I would hallucinate but my paranoia gets worse and I know my high wouldn’t be better. Headaches and obsessive behavior take hold like wasting hours downloading and cataloging 100’s of GB‘s of porn but actually watching very little even though I had planned on it but somehow 10 hours has passed and I ran out of time.
 
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Chattanooga, TN
I haven't done meth in over 6 months, but I got several grams (individually) over the last 4 years. It seemed like each one was better than the one before, and MUCH BETTER than what I'd gotten in the.past 10 to 20 years.
The very last gram I got was fucking incredible. It lasted over 2 weeks.
 
Have we all forgotten what good meth feels like?
Sadly some of us never knew. But I'm glad you said something because everything I've heard has said this stuff sucks compared to the old stuff. I wouldn't even call it a high. I'd label it a mood/energy enhancer and aphrodisiac you should be able to get over the counter. Be a lot easier than slowly destroying my nose.
 
Have we all forgotten what good meth feels like?
I don't know what you guys are getting, but the last couple of batches I got were astounding. Any stronger would be deadly.

I mean 3 lil' puffs and I'm euphoric, energized, and feeling superhuman for over 24 hours. How much stronger do you need?
 
I don't know what you guys are getting, but the last couple of batches I got were astounding. Any stronger would be deadly.

I mean 3 lil' puffs and I'm euphoric, energized, and feeling superhuman for over 24 hours. How much stronger do you need?
I'm getting it from probably the best seller for the last couple years where and how I get it. People love the guy. Almost all the meth in the US is from Mexico and everything I've had was mostly the same not like coke which is all over the place. Can't be from snorting it because good coke and heroin feel great snorted.

On another forum there's a lot of people that try it for the first time and are like where the high I just felt jittery so its a big problem
 
By all accounts according to the DEA meth has become increasingly more pure in the last 10 years in the US according to seizure analysis. However, this is a bit contradictory to both my experience and almost all of the anecdotal experiences I've seen from others on BL and elsewhere. I am curious what causes this disparity or what is going on.

Cartels have switched back to using the p2p method of synthesis (aka "biker meth"), which is notorious for impurities namely in the creation of large amounts of L-methamphetamine. This can, however, be removed from the product but this can only be done by advanced methods and equipment which is not something a smaller level chemist might do.

I think it's important to distinguish between what the DEA is seizing/testing, and what the end users are smoking, what the low level dealer is selling.

I am particularly looking for opinions from people who have used meth both in the past and recently. It would also be relevant to share what part of the country you are from.

If you are from Canada or Mexico your answer might be relevant as well, but I'm most interested in the US.
 
It may be purer but its half as potent on a good day.
The way they transport it has a lot to do with the potency as well, I mean they’re transporting it in liquid chemicals. Whether it be oil or some other type liquid. A type of foam is what I heard that they found it in in Gwinnett county Georgia recently when the DEA took down a conversions lab. I mean I could be wrong, but anytime you transport a chemical in another chemical there’s bound to be some kind of other molecular change unless they know the science of it all and not everyone knows the signs of it alI mean I could be wrong, but anytime you transport a chemical in another chemical there’s bound to be some kind of other molecular change unless they know the science of it all and not everyone knows the science. I was an RPI cook from to from 1999 to 2009 with a little bit of shake there at the end. It has progressively gotten worse since then in my opinion. Now we get P2P thats mostly L isomer, if its not Iso. They even learned how to co crystallize MSM with the ISO to make it melt almost exactly the same melting point as methamphetamine. And what it looks like is absolutely gorgeous old school Crystal crack back, and if you didn’t know any better you would think that it was the most amazing dope you’ve ever had by the crack back, but theres just no no potency or legs. You can eat, you can sleep, and you don’t feel like doing much. Can you shoot your tolerance up so high because it is pure methamphetamines just not the D isomer it’s LD and you’re lucky if you can get that. From my understanding both the Sinaloa and the Jalisco cartels are in competition for American distribution of methamphetamine or drugs. Not sure which or both. But if anybody has any further to talk on this I’d love to discuss it more. If that’s the case all they need to do is create dextromethamphetamine with a good potency. All I can say about that is, may the best man win.
 
I don't know what you guys are getting, but the last couple of batches I got were astounding. Any stronger would be deadly.

I mean 3 lil' puffs and I'm euphoric, energized, and feeling superhuman for over 24 hours. How much stronger do you need?
It's not that it's stronger but it was a better high! I feel like if you aren't stuck looking at the computer screen and watching porn for at least 4 to 10 hours stuck in the chair or bed and blocking out everything else your family, friends, work, social life all that.. that's on pause and you're in you're own little porn paradise just wacking it getting that good forearm strength and by the end of it you look like popeye.. at least your right forearm does unless you switch hands lmaooo if that ain't happening after you smoke a few hits then today's meth is tainted and pure garbage and anything the media says I don't bother listening to because I know who the owners are and I don't care of those types of people personally.. I dislike liars and those people fucking lie like a mother fucker being forced to lie being held at gun point.

But anyways what was I saying.. oh yeah.. today's meth is garbage and wtf is wrong with the cartel? How do they not know how to make good dextromethamphetamine!? If that's the case they should quit now and just open up some taco shops in their area cuz at least they're good with Mexican food.. I mean for fucks sake wtf is going on with life? Everything sucks ass! Why even live!? I might call it quits for good pretty soon man! Too many changes and all for the worst!
 
Meth from all over the US is more potent and pure than ever. Average potency is 97 percent dextromethamphetamine. I am a meth researcher and I've been researching for a long time. I can tell you my honest opinion. The issue everyone is having is they have no idea how potent the meth is and they are using way too much. What happens when you use too much of an amphetamine? You get all bad effects and none of the good. Think about it people saying no euphoria but all the bad side effects at an exaggerated level. Stimulants have a window of where the dose is right. With pure meth just 50mg is actually intense. You can eat a capsule with 50 to 100mg and fifteen minutes later you get smacked with a rush just like shooting meth. Everyone has the fire dope they are just using it all wrong.

Edit to add I have tested my theory with results that surpassed anything I could have expected. Just WOW
 
Meth from all over the US is more potent and pure than ever. Average potency is 97 percent dextromethamphetamine. I am a meth researcher and I've been researching for a long time. I can tell you my honest opinion. The issue everyone is having is they have no idea how potent the meth is and they are using way too much. What happens when you use too much of an amphetamine? You get all bad effects and none of the good. Think about it people saying no euphoria but all the bad side effects at an exaggerated level. Stimulants have a window of where the dose is right. With pure meth just 50mg is actually intense. You can eat a capsule with 50 to 100mg and fifteen minutes later you get smacked with a rush just like shooting meth. Everyone has the fire dope they are just using it all wrong.

Edit to add I have tested my theory with results that surpassed anything I could have expected. Just WOW
I couldn’t disagree more. I dont use alot of meth around 3-4 small/medium lines a day. Ive done 1 line or 2 its not better its not any feel. Ajd my tolerencemhas not moved up,much at all in 1year and a half.

How can you tell me I’m using too much when 2 and 1/2 months a go I got 15.5g for $1 with the shipping so really $ and Im still not even halfway through it yet?

What will it be min another 2.5 to 3 momths then? 21g for *snip NO prices please**

i think other than the switch to p2p meth is like adderall and benzos you take it long enough you never really feel it again. I took years,off of xanax and adderall snd still will,nevermget,euphoria from them again
 
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I couldn’t disagree more. I dont use alot of meth around 3-4 small/medium lines a day. Ive done 1 line or 2 its not better its not any feel. Ajd my tolerencemhas not moved up,much at all in 1year and a half.

How can you tell me I’m using too much when 2 and 1/2 months a go I got 15.5g for $125 with the 415 shipping so really $110 and Im still not even halfway through it yet?

What will it be min another 2.5 to 3 momths then? 21g for $150.

i think other than the switch to p2p meth is like adderall and benzos you take it long enough you never really feel it again. I took years,off of xanax and adderall snd still will,nevermget,euphoria from them again
Well you answered your own question dosing huge doses of meth will fry your dopamine receptors and you'll just destroy it altogether. So dosing almost pure Meth and not knowing it is just quiet literally destroying peoples brains and brain chemistry. It is very neurotoxic after all.
 
Well you answered your own question dosing huge doses of meth will fry your dopamine receptors and you'll just destroy it altogether. So dosing almost pure Meth and not knowing it is just quiet literally destroying peoples brains and brain chemistry. It is very neurotoxic after all.
I needed to add this even tho I'm embarrassed and ashamed but I reached meth toxicity dosing today's mentioned superior (for me anyway) dope. I was dosing my capsules and eye balled ONE! I also made the second mistake of dosing to soon. I ingested approximately half a gram in about 4 days and day 4 I began uncontrollably jerking and overheating. I attempted to mitigate myself and failed. Was in full convulsions by the time I reached the ER. 97 percent dextro, Impatiens and thinking approximate dosing is ok. Even the well educated and well experienced will fall. I plan to make a full post but I'm super bummed and down on myself. After all I've been through and learned and I do something so amateur and reckless. But for harm reduction and the sake of helping others I will share this.
 
Everyone fails, particularly when seduced.
I love this reply. I was dosing 100mg and felt I could handle that every 24 hours but on the night of day 3 I took an eyeballed capsule just because I was worried my wife would see me grab my good scale out of the bedroom and know I was dosing early. Well she found out! Crazy thing is I use to IV quarter grams, smoke crack and shoot heroin. Hell I'd mix two points of each to wake up.. but this supply 100mg oral and wait... Biggest rush ever from a capsule. The dope is out there. My main point of connection is a person who has used and had a successful life for over 30 years.
 
Clearing up misinformation about methamphetamine that's been cut with n-isopropylbenzylamine
Long Post
I've been studying people's subjective responses to this shit that's currently being sold as meth in most of North America and Australia. It's low-quality, with different effects as methamphetamine so it's often assumed to be pure n-iso. Here's the thing. It's not pure n-iso! Real crystal meth has one component:

Dextromethamphetamine hydrochloride (90%+)

The shit we're currently seeing has three components:

Dextromethamphetamine hydrochloride (25%)

Levomethamphetamine hydrochloride (25%)

n-isopropylbenzylamine hydrochloride (50%)

Both n-iso and levo-meth have unpleasant effects. Levo-meth's effects are typical of norephedrine-releasing stimulants: clenched jaw, hypertension, ears ringing, sweating, etc. Unpleasant, but manageable.

N-iso isn't a stimulant, but the effects of levo-meth are sometimes assumed to be from n-iso. N-iso's effects are more insidious, and take about a day and a half to kick in. Lethargy, listlessness, inability to focus, horrible brain fog, depression, procrastination, sense of uneasiness and fear, feeling like you're unable to leave your room for days on end. That sort of shit.

This is why some people who just take it for one day often feel okay afterwards. N-iso didn't have the chance to build up in their system.

If it does build up in your system, then you're basically a useless husk of a human being until you allow your body to remove that poison from your system. That might take some time, and it won't be pleasant at all, but nothing can be gained by continuing to put more poison into yourself.

There's this organized disinformation campaign, that's been trying to discredit anyone discussing how highly-cut meth is. Typical things you hear from this campaign, and why they're misleading:

N-iso isn't a stimulant

No shit, that's why it's mixed with racemic methamphetamine, which is a stimulant.

It tests as meth with a marquise test

Yeah, both levo and dextro meth test positive with a marquise test, and this concoction contains plenty of both. N-iso does not react to the marquise test.

It forms crystals, so it's pure

These are weak, hydrated crystals that incorporate both water and both enantiomers of methamphetamine into their structure. Notice how they always seem damp when you crush them? That's because water has to be incorporated into these otherwise-weak crystal structures in order to stabilize them. Real meth, on the other hand, does not form hydrates.

People who make meth are idiots, and could never figure this shit out

They're a lot smarter than most users, and learn by trial and error. Most are pretty bright, but were born into shitty situations, and learned chemistry as a way out of poverty. Also, these guys pass down their techniques, which aren't hard to learn if you have someone who knows their shit instructing you. Think Walt and Jesse.

This is all just crazy tweaker talk!

Yeah, it's really easy and lazy to assume all meth users are paranoid and prone to conspiracies. So far it's been really effective as a means of discrediting anyone who discusses it. But the evidence indicates that the tweakers are right this time. I'll get to that later.

Meth is a poison that's destroying your brain, and those effects you're noticing are symptoms of that

This one is really common to hear, but it's not entirely true. It's possible to use real methamphetamine responsibly (hell, it can be prescribed in the US, under the name "Desoxyn"), but this shit that's being sold as meth now is a whole different animal. So people who have been using methamphetamine responsibly for years are suddenly getting really fucked up, and are having a hard time explaining it. This tends to work psychologically, because meth users often feel guilty about their use, and assume that if they're experiencing problems, it's their own fault.

All tests we know of PROVE it's methamphetamine!
 
Yes, because it contains racemic methamphetamine, so will test positive for that. However, there is one test that this concoction can't fool: the melting point test.

Get a stainless steel digital thermometer from Harbor Freight or Autozone or whatever. They're like $5. Make sure they can measure past 200°C. Then put a bunch of your shit in a vial, using a double-boiler type setup, with some kind of oil in the outer container. Vegetable oil, mineral oil, motor oil, baby oil, whatever. Anyway, heat the oil, which will then heat the vial, and its contents will melt. Insert the thermometer, and make sure the vial contents are completely melted. Then remove the outer vessel (with hot oil in it) from the heat.

Everything will cool down very gradually. Watch the thermometer, and watch for crystals forming in the inner vial. As soon as a crystal forms, take note of the temperature. More and more crystals will form. If you have real meth, the temperature will hold during this process, at somewhere between 170°C and 175°C. The temperature will barely change during the crystallization. It might fall 1-2°C, due to minor impurities, but the less it changes temperature, the purer you can expect it to be.

But since that's not something that anyone has these days, you can probably expect crystals to start forming at maybe 160°C, and for the temperature to drop maybe 10°C before it's all solid. This proves that you have a mixture on your hands, not a pure substance. This is the best way to test this shit by far, since there's absolutely no room for interpretation.

The ghetto version of this is "crackback", where users watch how the molten salt solidifies. If it solidifies in a wave, starting from one or two points and radiating outward, that indicates purity. If it forms slushy crystals around the edges first, and leaves a liquid pool in the center that emits vapors as it solidifies, then that means you have a mixture, and not a pure substance.

This "crackback" nonsense is like reading tea leaves

People assume that "crackback" means looking at the patterns in the solidified substance. That's wrong. Actual "crackback" means observing how the molten salt transitions from liquid to solid as it cools. You have to watch it in real time. While it may not be scientific, per se, it's actually a pretty useful observation.

There are plenty of other observations that are useful for identifying it. This n-iso concoction crystallizes in plates, whereas real d-meth crystallizes in shards. So when crystals crack, they often have plate-like surfaces visible. This makes it pretty easy to recognize once you have some experience.

If this were a mixture, you could separate the components by recrystallization

Yeah, if the meth was d-meth. But since you have both isomers, that greatly impairs their ability to form crystals, so instead it gets incorporated into the n-iso crystals. Levo meth can form crystals with other levo meth, and dextro meth forms crystals with itself too. Think of them like those zigzag shape pieces in Tetris. One is a mirror image of the other, and if you got just one or the other, you could stack them easily. But if you have both coming at you, it's a lot harder to stack them in nice solid shapes. That's why it gets incorporated into n-iso crystals instead.

But meth chemists couldn't have figured all this out! They don't know a damn thing about crystal lattices!

They learn by trial and error, mostly. And all they would have had to do is try combining n-iso with racemic meth, and letting it crystallize.

You don't know anything about chemistry and used the wrong word somewhere, therefore this invalidates everything else you've said

I'm sorry you feel that way.

What do you mean, "organized"? Coming up with conspiracy theories like that is a sign you need to lay off the pipe.
Yes, meth users are known for being paranoid and coming up with crazy conspiracy theories, but they don't tend to all point in the same direction, and start at the same time. This shit began in full force at some point in early 2017, and has remained consistent ever since. Thousands of anecdotes scattered all over the internet, all describing the same symptoms starting at roughly the same time.

It's not crazy talk. It's real. And we need to start treating this problem with the appropriate level of seriousness, unless we want to keep funding these cartels that are poisoning people.

I've tried to provide the best harm-reduction information I possibly can, but there's so much misinformation out there that it can be hard to sort truth from nonsense. So it's really important that we take on this misinformation that keeps being spread about what's going on. They think you're stupid enough to believe their bullshit. Prove them wrong.
 
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