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Dissociatives Metaprogramming with Ketamine

C

Chummp

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Sep 20, 2003
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306
Now this really interests me:

This process of objectively observing and intentionally altering personal behavior is called Metaprogramming - a term coined by John Lilly. Ketamine enables metaprogramming in individuals to a point where it seems like synaptic pathways are almost consciously being rerouted to acheive a desired reality shift. In the emergent state, one can literally "try on" new facets of personality, perception, and reality. For instance, you can invoke a new attitude for yourself, fit it into your old reality paradigm, judge possible outcomes and effects, then keep it or scrap it. You can project yourself into the future, into a new relationship, into a new career, or into a new life. This is not an abstract projection, it is as if it is actually happening! When you find a new reality, resolution, or answer that suits you, you can live it out and measure it against the reality you just came from.
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from: The Ketamine Konundrum


Has anyone been able to 'Metaprogram' while on Ketamine? I would love to learn how to do this.
 
I experienced something very similiar to this via 2-CE last night. The effect was almost exactly as described in that blurb, but my intent was more playful.

For instance, I imagined myself as the epic hero, Beowulf. As I imagined what it must have felt like to be Beowulf strolling through the great hall with a pint of ale in hand, my posture transformed and my mannerisms seemed to magically shift to fit the personality type of an epic hero. It was a good feeling, and my thought patterns fell in line with the feeling perfectly. Had I been interested, I suspect I could have easily applied the experience to an idealistic projection of my own image.

I think most psychedelics have the power to do this. Personally, I haven't ever felt it with Ketamine. The body load has always been too distracting for me to do anything productive like this.
 
I have metaprogrammed on every drug I've ever taken. I have never tried Ketamine, but I can see no reason why it should be any different. It has been easiest for me on psychedelics, especially those which are good at evoking a trance state. Ketamine is reportedly one of the best there is when it comes to those kinds of experiences, so it should be one of the best when it comes to redefining yourself.
 
This is one of my favorite things about psychedelics. I first noticed my ability to do it on LSD, but 2C-E works great for it too.

I can see how dissociatives might have some of this power as well, although the only one I've tried much is DXM. K might be better.

I've actually found this to be a really useful tool for self-improvement. Like "psyching myself up" to do something I'm either dreading or just don't feel prepared for. If I can manage to "metaprogram" myself into being the type of person who CAN do [whateveritis], and do it really, really well, then even after the trip ends and the metaprogramming fades, I feel like it's still at least POSSIBLE for me. Works great!
 
from The Ketamine Konundrum : ...You can project yourself into the future...
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true with Ketamine- which also good for "remote viewing" (real-time visualization of distant places- the South American shaman has done this for centuries using Yage).

now, before anyone dismisses this as "hallucinating", let us consider the thought and teachings of Jung regarding Synchronicity and the subconscious...Jung’s definition of synchronicity clearly incorporates precognition and clairvoyance, which, by some people’s definition, are also types of intuition: they are certainly inner knowing.

by nature, I am a skeptic, but historically, I have been able to reproduce the above phenomena on a fairly reliable and consistent basis...
 
ketamine is the only drug wherein i am able to consistently project myself into another world. Always. I dont get hit by acid, i dont really like other psychedelics ....but with k, its like ive died and gone an [almost] heaven. So many different fantastic places. Some scary experiences in the beginning, but like i say, once you master your trip espcially on dissociatives, you are able to experience such fantastic k holes and wonderful galaxies that i have never seen nor navigated when on other drugs. i have experienced k holes with good friends who are so remarkably in-tune with my trip, that we find ourselves going to the beach together almost all the time. (its hard explaining this to non-k users, or those who havent experienced similar trips..i tend to feel like a nutcase) thats why this thread is a good one. :) One other funny "group" metaprogramming me and my mates have mastered down pat is the AIRPLANE scenario wherein we are always en route to some paradise destination, and there is a designated steward/stewardess. *sigh* i miss k.:)
 
crystalcallas said:
ketamine is the only drug wherein i am able to consistently project myself into another world. Always. I dont get hit by acid, i dont really like other psychedelics ....but with k, its like ive died and gone an [almost] heaven. So many different fantastic places. Some scary experiences in the beginning, but like i say, once you master your trip espcially on dissociatives, you are able to experience such fantastic k holes and wonderful galaxies that i have never seen nor navigated when on other drugs. i have experienced k holes with good friends who are so remarkably in-tune with my trip, that we find ourselves going to the beach together almost all the time. (its hard explaining this to non-k users, or those who havent experienced similar trips..i tend to feel like a nutcase) thats why this thread is a good one. :) One other funny "group" metaprogramming me and my mates have mastered down pat is the AIRPLANE scenario wherein we are always en route to some paradise destination, and there is a designated steward/stewardess. *sigh* i miss k.:)
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Yeah me too, i love trying to focus in on diff aspects of the *hole* whilst in total delta state , looking around and admiring the scenery so to speak, some are totally scary, some are totally beautiful, others just completely bizarre and freaky. Have never masatered acid and dont like other psychadelics either ( or rather they dont like me ) and never found this effect with any other drug ive taken.

I love using k to try and sort out diff aspects of my life, diff issues that are bothering me at the time, in the lil book of ketamine they call it k for knowledge and thats so true... i always try and remember aspects of what i learn and hold onto thoughts and feelings to analyse at a later date...

I found a lot of stuff in this article interesting whilst learning how to navigate a k trip and learning how to metaprogramme

http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/ketamine/references/other/1997_kent_resproject_1.shtml
 
Well it certainly sounds like hallcuinating to me. i.e. people seeing shit that isn't there.
 
BilZ0r said:
Well it certainly sounds like hallcuinating to me. i.e. people seeing shit that isn't there.
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I don't think you understand what metaprograming is. Hallucinating is pretty much involuntary. Metaprogramming is a conscious act. Its something you could conceivably do without drugs: focusing on goals, aspects of your personality, during meditation. The idea is that metaprograming is something that you can do much faster. It's picturing something in your head, using your imagination. That's hardly the same as hallucinating.

As for doing it with ketamine:

My understanding (having never done it), is that recalling ideas and feelings from a hole is a very difficult task. It seems that a traditional psychedelic, one with a longer post-plateau trip, would be better suited to the job.
 
I agree with Atlas that 'recovering' actual data from a ketamine experience can be difficult, and usually is.

...BUT...

Ketamine seems to imbue a 'multi-dimensional' perspective (if that makes any sense at all), from which one can actually 'reposition' core beliefs and foundational assumptions through their conscious intent. It's as if there's a clean 'hierarchy' of observable fundamentals that can be worked with DIRECTLY, from a somewhat objective space. This sounds odd, Im sure, but if you've been there, you'll know exactly what I mean...

A clean (or even hazy) 'memory' of the experience may not be available to call upon, but nonetheless the actual effects of the 'data management' session can be (and, in my case always WERE) obvious in my behavior and physical manifestations fallowing the experience. In such, I see it as a serious 'tool' for metaprogramming - in a most profoundly bizarre way.


All of this is very hard to describe, but then again - so is ketamine. =)

Best,

...Ad
 
...OR you were high on drugs...

I mean, you can alter your perspectives whether your fucked up or not. Now the more fucked up your are, the more freedom you have with your perspectives.

I mean, with meditation you can make yourself think whatever you want.

I mean, as soon as you start saying that a drug gives you a "'multi-dimensional' perspective" you kinda loose your credibility in claiming that its not an hallucination.
 
Just because something is not within the context of your known belief structure doesn't mean that it is not valid. Many angles of perception exist that are not documented or understandable within the 'rational scope'.

Enjoy your narrow minded perspective and vague classifications. They should guide you to a life FULL of marginal experiences, limiting assumptions and generally BAD metaprogramming. =)

I guess that you just haven't been 'fucked up on drugs' enough to realize that it's ALL a hallucination...


Ez,

...Ad
 
Sorry AdInfinitum, something that is not documented, not understandable, not rational, and not empirically verifiable should be considered invalid by any intelligent person.

I don't think Blizor is writing off mind blowing, transcendental drug experiences totally. I think he's placing emphasis on the power of the human mind and not the drugs we put into it. He's right, shit like meditation, mass hysteria, or false memory implantation illustrate the awesome and natural powers of the human mind.

I value drugs, but I also refuse to sell my mind short.

I respect drugs and they respect me back.
 
MaliceNwunderland said:
Sorry AdInfinitum, something that is not documented, not understandable, not rational, and not empirically verifiable should be considered invalid by any intelligent person.
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That IS the generally accepted view, so I cannot attempt (and don't have the patience) to argue against it. If I did, I'd grow quite exhausted by having to defend my every thought,...I'm certain.

However, I still hold tight to my 'irrational' beliefs - at least the ones that work FOR me. I've seen way too much 'evidence' (in my personal reality) that my beliefs (which are not fully founded on rational thinking, causal relationships, and empirically verifiable data) are working to my advantage to ever 'go back'. Through my methods, I am able to live a life of magic and freedom. I wouldn't trade that for a textbook full of dated assumptions and Neutonian barriers any day. :)

Best,

...Ad
 
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to be honest, the whole "hallucinations are not real, anything that happens on drugs is not real, it can't change anything" is a remarkably dangerous attitude for people who want to use dissociatives. this is the kind of sillyness that gets shamanic apprentices bitch-slapped the world over.

i argee, not worth arguing over. the vast majority of humanity believes this - but they aren't on dissociatives. but, at least, y'all remember the PCP/handcuffs bit - people on dust can break handcuffs. every cop knows this - it is accepted normal reality. and utterly impossible. it cannot be done - not amount of no-pain will help. PCP allows people to do starkly impossible things.

and, for the ones in the know, when you get your karma really together, you can do the other universe thing in dreams, without drugs. i'm thinking it's time for a "weird k experiences" topic where we can discuss this without the whole "shut up, freak" vibe.
 
tantric said:
to be honest, the whole "hallucinations are not real, anything that happens on drugs is not real, it can't change anything" is a remarkably dangerous attitude for people who want to use dissociatives. this is the kind of sillyness that gets shamanic apprentices bitch-slapped the world over.
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LOL, well played :)
 
PCP allows people to break handcuffs? Can I have some proof of that please?
 
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