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[Mescaline Extraction Subthread] d-Limonene Tek

Substitution questions: does anyone have any advice regarding something which could be used in place of a French coffee press? More importantly, a food dehydrator. I'm weary of using my oven for such a thing, considering mescaline really doesn't like the heat -_-

Other questions: How long is "a few" hours listed in step 2 of 69ron's tek? Five-ish?

Instead of repeating the whole TEK "2-3 times" as suggested in step 7, could I just repeat the first step several times, mixing the acquired products and performing the second step on that, then repeating that step, then continue to repeat as I go along? I feel like this is terribly unclear, but if anybody understands and knows what I'm saying, help would be appreciated :D

How long should the vinegar and d-limonene sit?

Regards,
HZ
 
Substitution questions: does anyone have any advice regarding something which could be used in place of a French coffee press? More importantly, a food dehydrator. I'm weary of using my oven for such a thing, considering mescaline really doesn't like the heat -_-
french press is like 20 bucks, and there's nothing better you can use...

Other questions: How long is "a few" hours listed in step 2 of 69ron's tek? Five-ish?
you're over thinking it, just do 3-5. i shake it up every now and then too.

Instead of repeating the whole TEK "2-3 times" as suggested in step 7, could I just repeat the first step several times, mixing the acquired products and performing the second step on that, then repeating that step, then continue to repeat as I go along? I feel like this is terribly unclear, but if anybody understands and knows what I'm saying, help would be appreciated :D
i don't understand. if you have more powder, then do the math and addmore of the other ingredients.

How long should the vinegar and d-limonene sit?
till it seperates. it doesn't take long. i personall shake it, let it sit for a few minutes, shake it, and repeat that one more time before letting it fully seperate.


Since this is an A/B tek, would it work with other alkaloids like DMT etc?
yes. the ratio's might be different, but yes.
 
i don't understand. if you have more powder, then do the math and addmore of the other ingredients.

What I'm saying is, in the TEK, 69ron suggests in the last step that you complete the extraction another 2-3 times on the dried cactus. What I'm asking is, could I simply repeat the steps as I do them?

To illustrate this, instead of going:
Step 1 > Step 2 > Step 3 > Step 4 > Step 5> Step 6 > Step 1 > Step 2 > Step 3 > Step 4 > Step 5> Step 6 > Step 1 > Step 2 > Step 3 > Step 4 > Step 5> Step 6 >

Could I just go:
Step 1 > Step 1 > Step 1, then take the combined products of that, then repeat step 2 a number of times, etc?

Also, is any 100% d-limonene extract usable? Would 100% d-limonene be food grade, regardless of the specified application (graffiti removal, grease trap cleaning, etc) suggested in the listing?
 
ok, got a few questions on this one:

- could NaOH be used for this extraction too?(how much?)
- if 60% acetic acid is used, would one dilute it or adjust the quantity? or maybe both?
- and finally: could acetone or isopropyl substitute MEK?
- isn't there a way to freeze-precip. it just like DMT?


thanks four your answers fellow kitchen chemists! :)
 
how do you guys schedule your eating habits when dosing with this method? whats the best way to avoid nausea/throwing up?

i usually only get mild nausea from this...last time my girlfriend ate a bowl of teriyaki chicken almost immediately after dosing and threw up horribly multiple times.
 
does this extraction work for all psychoactive cacti as well? for example polaskia chichipe, PEYOTILLO, SUNAMI, ect.
 
Does the extraction work with 97% pure d-limonene or does it have to be 100%? The remaining 3% should be non-polar as well anyway, right?
 
The middle layer is called an emulsion. It's made from the top and bottom layers mixing together, and trapping air inside. Don't "mix" the vinegar/limo in the future, or you'll have this problem. All you really need to do is put them together in a jar and gently flip the jar over a few times. As long as the vinegar and limonene are in contact, an extraction is occurring.

In regards to your current situation, though, I guess you could try putting the whole mess in the freezer for a while, or in a pot of warm water, to see if it separates out. Time is your friend here. If not, I would just save the bottom layer, and throw the middle layer out.

so, regarding emulsion. let's say that after adding and mixing the vinegar, only a bottom layer of the white emulsion and top of limonene remain. would the pot of warm water/free still work for this? is any of these methods (hot/cold) better/worse?

for some reason, this time it was shaken much harder than usual….


One more question: Does anyone ever reuse the limonene for each pull?
 
so, regarding emulsion. let's say that after adding and mixing the vinegar, only a bottom layer of the white emulsion and top of limonene remain. would the pot of warm water/free still work for this? is any of these methods (hot/cold) better/worse?

In my experience, a hot water bath works better. I haven't had any success with the freezer method. If the hot bath doesn't seem to be working quickly, I just separate the emulsion from the limonene. The limonene is good to go with more vinegar. For the emulsion, I place it in a tall and narrow container (so if it separates the layers can be separated by decanting), then place it in a cool dark place to sit and separate. For me, the longest time it took for an emulsion to separate was 6 weeks (!!!)


One more question: Does anyone ever reuse the limonene for each pull?

I would think that it might be more prone to emulsions in subsequent pulls, possibly from additional fats/junk in the powder.


how do you guys schedule your eating habits when dosing with this method? whats the best way to avoid nausea/throwing up?

I'll have a small/medium meal 2-3 hours before dosing. Ginger tea about 30 mins before, as well as splitting up the dose over a period of 20 - 30 mins. Additionally, if you come across any Zofran (ondansetron) that will eliminate any nausea.
 
^Great info. I too can vouch for the hot water bath, it works wonders.
I personally reuse the limonene for three pulls. i'm going to experiment and try one with fresh d-limonene, and compare results, will let you guys know.


I have questions too. I've done this tek more than a few times. Most successful. But every once in a while I fuck up. Last time I did it, I let the limonene soak with the cactus for 12 hours. Maybe too much, because when using the vinegar comes out very cloudy, even after a hot bath.

The problem is when i evaporate, and am left with a lot of material, not just the goopy black/dark good stuff. There is a lot of flaky stuff, and it smells like limonene/vinegar. Anyways, my question is how to salvage this. I know there is goods in it, but want to reduce it to more pure. My idea was to dissolve it in a small amount of d-limo, and then do vinegar pull again. Any thoughts?? Thanks in advance.

-Friendly anonymous psychonaut :)
 
What consistency are your yields? Have had anywhere from deep dark orange/black/brown tar to more flaky ornage tinted black and lighter tan to cream colored powders.

Hot water baths do wonders, solve the problem of re-using limonene for subsequent pulls.. Patience.

Would pre-evapping vinegar down to a greater strength have any beneficial effect?
What I'm saying is, in the TEK, 69ron suggests in the last step that you complete the extraction another 2-3 times on the dried cactus. What I'm asking is, could I simply repeat the steps as I do them?

To illustrate this, instead of going:
Step 1 > Step 2 > Step 3 > Step 4 > Step 5> Step 6 > Step 1 > Step 2 > Step 3 > Step 4 > Step 5> Step 6 > Step 1 > Step 2 > Step 3 > Step 4 > Step 5> Step 6 >

Could I just go:
Step 1 > Step 1 > Step 1, then take the combined products of that, then repeat step 2 a number of times, etc?

Also, is any 100% d-limonene extract usable? Would 100% d-limonene be food grade, regardless of the specified application (graffiti removal, grease trap cleaning, etc) suggested in the listing?

Good question! What if on first limonene - second vinegar pull i just added more vinegar before siphoning off?

I think it would be possible to tweak the order, but maybe not repeat the limonene pull without taking with acetic acid.
 
Dude, I don't use this tek, but yeah, I reuse toluene or xylene, you should absolutely reuse d-limonene, what else would you do with it? it will still have mescaline in it, and is expensive as fuck.

As I say, don't use this tek or method, but yeah, of course you can use NaOH, what do you use now? You can even get food grade lye, if that's a concern for you.

Yes, this method will work on any and all mescaline-containing cacti (and any other material).

Yeah, jesus, 97% pure is fine, more than fine.

Yeah, whatever you're using acetone for (presumably washing the finished crystal?), MEK is just fine. Not sure about isopropyl alcohol, but I imagine so, however MEK would be my chosen substitute. Make sure it's dry, add an excess of Epsom salts you've previously baked to the acetone bottle (not while it's still hot, fuckwit!).

No, you can't freeze precip. That works on DMT because there's a big difference between how soluble DMT is in hot naphtha (very) and cold naphtha (hardly at all). Mescaline freebase is soluble in limonene/toluene/xylene even when it's cold. DMT also forms a nice solid crystal as a freebase, mescaline does not, you can't separate one oil from another just by freezing. Plus, you want a salt anyway (why all the acetic acid? Hydrochloric, guys. I just never really got the appeal of this method, but fuck it, it's your thang, do what you gon do).
 
Make cactus as fine as possible. Combine cactus with water, like 2 litres of water for every kilo or so, I guess, and cook down until it stops being slimy, goes thin.

Transfer to glass container. Add as much NaOH as there is cactus, by weight. Add some more. Leave for a while.

Add enough xylene to form like an inch layer in the top of the glass. Mix it in and let it separate. If it doesn't separate, forms an emulsion, or a gloopy porridge, you can solve this problem with heat, base, and time. You can NEVER add too much NaOH. If in doubt, more lye.

When it does separate, and you're happy it's been in there long enough to soak up all the mescaline it will, suck the xylene (the top layer) out with a glass gas syringe (easily bought online). Transfer it to a small jar, like a jam jar or something, that you have a tight fitting lid for.

Add some hydrochloric acid, I use 37% conc. diluted a bit, it doesn't matter that much, any excess will evaporate.

Cap it, shake it up really well. It will separate into two layers. Stick it in the freezer.

When the water layer has frozen, take the jar out, and as quickly as you can, pour the xylene out, back into your cactus/water/lye mixture.

Rinse the ice in the jar with a little bit of ice cold water to get all the xylene, pour this into the cactus mix too.

When the ice melts, pour the water into a big flat dish to evaporate. When it does, it will leave behind a residue of crystalline powder. This is mescaline hydrochloride.

Repeat the steps with adding the xylene, mixing it up, pulling it out, adding the acid, freezing it, and pouring the xylene back in until you stop getting worthwhile amounts of mescaline from evaporating the water.

You're done. The cactus mixture can go down the drain. The solvent, try to save and reuse, it's bad for the environment, but it's probably going to end up there, either by being poured away or allowed to evaporate. Try to avoid this as much as possible. If you want to purify your mescaline, you can use dry acetone (add Epsom salts you've baked to acetone bottle to dry it) and rinse it in a coffee filter. I never found this necessary.

Safety points:

ALWAYS wear goggles when working with acid or base. They will BLIND YOU FOREVER if you are not careful. I once had a very basic mixture splash all over my face. It covered the goggles I was wearing. If I hadn't been wearing them, I'd be blind for sure, probably in prison too.

NEVER add water to acid or base. This forms a dangerously concentrated solution. Always Add Acid.

ALWAYS have a big jug of white vinegar on hand to neutralise lye spills.

DON'T fucking smoke around solvents, you fucking idiot. Work in a ventilated area. Xylene is flammable. Acetone is really flammable.

NEVER use aluminium, check to make sure everything you use is resistant to being eaten by solvents/acids/bases you are using.

Notes:

You'll notice this is not a precise tek but a general method. I think that teks encourage people to do things they don't really understand, and make things sound harder than they are. What you are doing is not difficult. You have freebase mescaline. You are dissolving it in a solvent it goes into. You are then turning it into a salt. This means it no longer goes into that first solvent, but into water instead. You are then separating the two layers, and evaporating the water, leaving the mescaline salt behind. This is not hard to grasp. Grasp it.

This will work with many different kinds of acids, bases and solvents. I happen to use hydrochloric acid, NaOH, and xylene. You can use others.

You can never have enough base. Heat, base and time will solve all your problems.

The hardest part of this is the technique with the syringe. Master this, and you have mastered mescaline extraction. It is much more important to have solvent without any water/cactus/lye mixture than it is to get all the solvent.

Questions?
 
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What if on first limonene - second vinegar pull i just added more vinegar before siphoning off?

It's always better to do more pulls in general, rather than one or two pulls with larger volumes. Overall, you could combine some of the steps, you would just have more material to work with, which can be awkward sometimes depending on what glassware you have. Just remember to do lots of pulls regardless. My yields weren't that good from this tek...forgot what the actual numbers were. I much prefer a full alkaloid extraction anyway.
 
Think about washing up pots and pans. You can use one big bowl of soapy water for all of it, or you can periodically replace the water, use 4 or 5 smaller bowls. Which way gets your pans cleaner? The thing about salting out the actives in an extraction is you can reuse the solvents, so there's no reason not to keep doing pulls until nothing more comes out.
 
^ah, good metaphor!
It's always better to do more pulls in general, rather than one or two pulls with larger volumes. Overall, you could combine some of the steps, you would just have more material to work with, which can be awkward sometimes depending on what glassware you have. Just remember to do lots of pulls regardless. My yields weren't that good from this tek...forgot what the actual numbers were. I much prefer a full alkaloid extraction anyway.

Thanks :) I like this tek because my current environment only allows me to use safe ingredients, and this one seems to be the most fitting. what kind of yields were you getting? i find the yields quite satisfying, although i don't have much to compare off of. Came across a specimen that wasn't too fulfilling once...

What do you mean "full alkaloid extraction"? Would this tek be considered so because it takes out more psychoactive alkaloids other than mescaline?

What do your guys yields with this tek look like? have had them range from deeply dark black/brown sappy stuff, too more crystally-looking lighter orange(which is chopped with a razor) or thin scrapes of fine tannish dust.
 
What do you mean "full alkaloid extraction"? Would this tek be considered so because it takes out more psychoactive alkaloids other than mescaline?
All home extractions of cactus are full-spectrum. You will get all the other alkaloids (lopophine and such) along with the mescaline with any A/B procedure, separating such similar chemicals is beyond the scope of the kitchen chemist.
 
So, I completed the extraction...However, when I evaporated the vinegar I had way too much material and it reeked of calcium hydroxide. I figured maybe I used too much calcium hydroxide (I used a lot, i alter directions like an ass).So, I figured I would put the powder in brand new, non-exhausted d-limonene and then add vinegar after a few hours. Whatever it was, the powder did not dissolve in the d-limonene. I added vinegar, waited few hours, and the d-limonene is clear but the vinegar is super cloudy. Can't even see through it at all. What the fuck is going on? How do I clean this up without a hassle of an MEK run. And what do you think this non-dissolving crap is?

Thank you kindly for any help

EDIT: there is no dissolved matter anymore, so whatever it was dissolved in vinegar. Granted I used a few pounds of wet cactus, but a 9 gram yield reeking off calcium hydroxide made me think it had to be calcium hydroxide. If it was calcium hydroxide, it would have dissolved in the d-limonene and not the vinegar right? Vinegar is very cloudy, so it has to be saturated with something...ugh
 
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