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[Mescaline Cactus Subthread] MAOI Potentiation

I'm certain that MAOI's would potentiate it, however, that combination is extremely risky, and is AFAIK entirely unexplored. I would strongly council against it, and recommend instead simply accepting the ridiculous cost and taking a larger dose, or tripping off of a cheaper drug. PEAs and MAOI's do not get along well (unlike trypts and MAOIs, which is somewhat less dangerous). Also, doing this with cactus extract, instead of pure mescaline, would be significantly more dangerous, because there are all those other alkaloids in the cacti, and it's quite possible that one could be inactive without an MAOI, but be active and toxic when MAO isn't around to shred it as soon as you eat it.

Piracetam would probably potentiate it, but as we know, it's quite unpredictable.


In all cases, the extent of careful experiments needed to ensure safety (slowly working up the dose in combination with the potentiator) would make this a large undertaking. I'd start with no more than 50mg of mescaline and a small dose of the potentiator (maybe 100mg if i was going to use piracetam), and go cautiously from there, if I was to do this, which I wouldnt. The amount of material required for such tests would offset the likely savings in mescaline from potentiating it.
 
I would think that a way to potentiate it would be to ingest a substrate for the same metabolism (MAO-B was it?) to get competitive inhibition.

Citrus Aurantium Extract (95% Hordenine), I quote "According to the most credible research I've seen, hordenine isn't a MAOI per se, but a highly selective substrate for MAO-B."

I think this compound is available to buy as a food supplement and let me check but I think this is in mescaline-containing cacti as well! Some constituents of cacti may potentiate it through this same way of competetive inhibition, I think?
....
Cacao is not a MAOI:

There is, however, a persistent rumor that chocolate itself is an MAOI. The primary support given for this seems to be something that Terence McKenna once said about the Mayan custom of mixing chocolate with mushrooms (suggesting they did this to potentiate the mushrooms with the chocolate). Regardless, we have not been able to find any solid evidence that chocolate is, in fact, an MAOI.

The point of confusion is certainly that chocolate contains caffeine and theobromine, whose effects may be increased when taken in combination with an MAOI. Many sources suggest that chocolate should not be eaten incombination with prescription MAOIs, although the levels of caffeine and theobromine are low enough that reliable sources generally say it is safe in combination with MAOIs unless the chocolate is eaten in large quantities.

Many people get confused between MAOIs, and the foods and medications which should not be mixed with them. As neither MDMA nor chocolate are MAOIs, combining them should not be a problem. We have never received a report of health problems resulting from mixing chocolate with MDMA.
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http://www.erowid.org/ask/ask.php?ID=2571
 
TheAzo said:
I'm certain that MAOI's would potentiate it, however, that combination is extremely risky, and is AFAIK entirely unexplored. I would strongly council against it, and recommend instead simply accepting the ridiculous cost and taking a larger dose, or tripping off of a cheaper drug. PEAs and MAOI's do not get along well (unlike trypts and MAOIs, which is somewhat less dangerous). Also, doing this with cactus extract, instead of pure mescaline, would be significantly more dangerous, because there are all those other alkaloids in the cacti, and it's quite possible that one could be inactive without an MAOI, but be active and toxic when MAO isn't around to shred it as soon as you eat it.

Piracetam would probably potentiate it, but as we know, it's quite unpredictable.


In all cases, the extent of careful experiments needed to ensure safety (slowly working up the dose in combination with the potentiator) would make this a large undertaking. I'd start with no more than 50mg of mescaline and a small dose of the potentiator (maybe 100mg if i was going to use piracetam), and go cautiously from there, if I was to do this, which I wouldnt. The amount of material required for such tests would offset the likely savings in mescaline from potentiating it.
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MAOI and mescaline is absolutely safe-- as well as with cacti. The ammount of tryamine is nowhere near dangerous.
 
yourtman said:
MAOI and mescaline is absolutely safe-- as well as with cacti. The ammount of tryamine is nowhere near dangerous.
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Do you have any references (academic, or anecdotal) regarding the safety of mescaline in combination with an MAOI?

I'm basing my assumption of risk on the reports of combinations of other phenethylamines with MAOIs causing complete loss of touch with reality while they maintain full control of their body - ie, great potential for harm to the user. Someone here posted one about 2C-I (i think, might have been another 2C) + MAOI about that, where they were trying to climb the walls or something. I can't seem to find it though, since you can't seach the forums for "2C-I"....
 
I'm planning on doing it for my 2nd time soon. I was just wondering if there is anything I could take prior to potentiate the effects? MAOI/vitamin C/etc?

Thanks!!!!! :)
 
If you're doing it for your 2nd time you shouldn't worry about potentiation. If you eat enough cactus, that is :p

You can use a MAOI to potentiate mesc, but that is for serious trippers only... you can easily end up in hospital if you don't know what you're doing.
 
sekio said:
If you're doing it for your 2nd time you shouldn't worry about potentiation. If you eat enough cactus, that is :p

You can use a MAOI to potentiate mesc, but that is for serious trippers only... you can easily end up in hospital if you don't know what you're doing.
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Well the first time I made a tea from a 12", ~3.5 lb top cut of Torch and it was excellent but could've been a tad stronger. This time me and my buddy are splitting a 22", 8 lb top cut Torch so I'll be getting a bit more, although as we know content varies.

How is it dangerous to use an MAOI like syrian rue? Does it have potential physical side effects or could it just make the trip unbearably strong?
 
MAOI's can have physical side effects like serotonin sickness, hypertension, etc. in addition to making your trip unbearably strong.

If you don't know the potency of your material, don't add MAOI.
 
sekio said:
MAOI's can have physical side effects like serotonin sickness, hypertension, etc. in addition to making your trip unbearably strong.

If you don't know the potency of your material, don't add MAOI.
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irreversible MAOIs yes, but rue no. Seriously if you think you have to go on a hardcore diet for rue or caapi, do some research, you will be pleasantly surprised. Any serotin sickness resulting from MAOI use is from a manmade MAOI
 
Mescaline + Syrian Rue = Safe Combination?

~1.2g of syrian rue + ~450mg of P. Torch extract for a 115lb dude.

The dangerous combinations sticky says no MAOIs + Phenethylamine psychedelics, but I seem to remember reading that this combination is okay.

Can someone clarify this for me?
 
"fine bar being"?

Okay, so I'm not putting myself in any danger with this combination? I'm usually good with nausea.
 
I've tried mesc with Syrian rue and with b. Caapi extracts. I can't honestly say either one made much of an appreciable difference. I think you will be fine, but I'd suggest saving the SR for your next DMT experience.
 
Okay, cool. Bear in mind that it is not 450mg of pure mescaline, but just P Torch resin. Realistically, it probably contains ~250mg mescaline.
 
It's been through three "cleans" of some food grade mescaline extraction tek. It's kinda brown and sticky, so I call it a resin. It's definitely P Torch, not S Pedro.
 
I thought cactus contains tyramine and related alkaloids that are not OK to combine with MAO inhibitors. And they can still be in the extract.

"bar" or "barring" means "except for"

The 'right' kind of MAO inhibitor for phenethylamines is supposed to be one that inhibits MAO-B, for tryptamines one that inhibits MAO-A. However there are non-selective MAOIs, quite a lot actually, that inhibit both. I can also imagine there are compounds that are substrates for both types of MAO.

The beta-carbolines in Caapi and Harmala (Syrian Rue) are RIMAs, if I am correct: Reversible Inhibitors of MAO-A. That is why they are great for activating DMT, although people get away with cutting corners on diet restrictions. The tyramine in cactus falls into the diet category which you can get away with that but it doesn't mean it isn't unwise regarding headaches and other side-effects. Medication should still be watched out for with RIMAs like any other MAOI. And also,

RIMAs still have highly dangerous and sometimes fatal interactions with many common drugs; in particular, they can cause serotonin syndrome or hypertensive crisis when combined with almost any antidepressant or stimulant, common migraine medications, certain herbs, or even most cold medicines (including decongestants, antihistamines, and cough syrup).
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Hmmm. I'd like to get a clear answer from this thread...

Also, I might end up doing 600mg of the stuff, because I just found out that it is actually pretty weak. A friend did 900mg of it and only had a change of mind/emotional state.
 
A question has been asked about this on erowid: http://www.erowid.org/ask/ask.php?ID=3089

There are also reports on erowid where there is a potentiation estimated at about 3x.

It seems there is not a life threatening contraindication but results can be unpredictable in terms of trip strength and side-effects as well. You would do well accepting widely varying outcomes before you embark.
 
Thank you, that was informative. Overall, it seems that it is safe, but unpredictable in terms of effects.
 
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