Maintenance treatment in Netherlands

[DeathIndustrial88]

It's funny when thry call ketamine horse tranquilizer* when it's the same shit for humans.

Yeah, most people fail to realize that most human medicine is also medicine for animals. Only difference is in the dosage and preparations really. Hell most trials for drugs are test on animals before they're used on humans. lol

 

[izo]

It's almost like they have an agenda to restrict people's access to some of the best medicines.

Not almost, that’s about it when it comes to psychoactive substances.

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

Not almost, that’s about it when it comes to psychoactive substances.

Definitely. Can't have people feeling good & content or they'll stop consuming and following.

At one point I was on 11 different medicines for major depression, anxiety/panic & BPD.
If I could have just legally used a few doses of heroin intranasally each day, I would have had no need for the other 11 medicines.
Actually, I had no need for them anyway since they didn't even work & ended up making my depression worse.

 

[izo]

Eleven, wow.

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

Buprenorphine
Clonazepam
Gabapentin
Venlafaxine
Propranolol
Prazosin
Clonidine
Mirtazipine
Flexeril
Topamax

Also had abilify & vraylar thrown into the mix at one point too.


And probably a few more I'm forgetting. Was on all of this at the same time, but have since stopped taking several due to shitty side effects & still feeling depressed.
Not to mention in January the price of my meds went from 1.30 a piece to 4 dollars a piece.

Been in a bad depressive episode since my mom died last year.

Over Christmas, I had the chance to take some hydrocodone. Was the first time I've felt relief from my depression in almost a year.
So yeah I definitely feel like they don't want us to have access to these things for reasons other than "Safety".

 

[nznity]

Buprenorphine
Clonazepam
Gabapentin
Venlafaxine
Propranolol
Prazosin
Clonidine
Mirtazipine
Flexeril
Topamax

Also had abilify & vraylar thrown into the mix at one point too.


And probably a few more I'm forgetting. Was on all of this at the same time, but have since stopped taking several due to shitty side effects & still feeling depressed.
Not to mention in January the price of my meds went from 1.30 a piece to 4 dollars a piece.

Been in a bad depressive episode since my mom died last year.

Over Christmas, I had the chance to take some hydrocodone. Was the first time I've felt relief from my depression in almost a year.
So yeah I definitely feel like they don't want us to have access to these things for reasons other than "Safety".

Ew man,
I hate Topamax so much. I couldn't stand its secondary fx it gave me, nasty drug

 

[nznity]

Over Christmas, I had the chance to take some hydrocodone. Was the first time I've felt relief from my depression in almost a year.
So yeah I definitely feel like they don't want us to have access to these things for reasons other than "Safety".

Opiates are the best antidepressants in existence, even though they aren't prescribed for that. SO MUCH BETTER than the so called Antidepressant class of DRUGS.

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

Ew man,
I hate Topamax so much. I couldn't stand its secondary fx it gave me, nasty drug

That shit has the ability to cause acute glaucoma which can lead to permanent blindness if you don't get to the ER right away.
I think it's also made from a sugar molecule & can wreak havoc on your metabolism.
Was always worried about that blindness side effect.

It's amazing that sudden death, suicide, tardive dyskinesia, blindness, etc.. are acceptable side effects of psychiatric drugs but god forbid some one enjoy their medicine (like an opioid). haha

I couildn't agree more about the current class of drugs used for depression. SSRI's have never done jack shit for me. In fact, I'm pretty sure they're mostly placebo.
When the SSRI's don't work, they head straight for the lithium or antipsychotics. How they think that is going to help a depressed patient is illogical to me.

 

[nznity]

That shit has the ability to cause acute glaucoma which can lead to permanent blindness if you don't get to the ER right away.
I think it's also made from a sugar molecule & can wreak havoc on your metabolism.
Was always worried about that blindness side effect.

It's amazing that sudden death, suicide, tardive dyskinesia, blindness, etc.. are acceptable side effects of psychiatric drugs but god forbid some one enjoy their medicine (like an opioid). haha

I couildn't agree more about the current class of drugs used for depression. SSRI's have never done jack shit for me. In fact, I'm pretty sure they're mostly placebo.
When the SSRI's don't work, they head straight for the lithium or antipsychotics. How they think that is going to help a depressed patient is illogical to me.

The only thing you get from antidepressants is weight gain, erectile dysfunction, loss of libido, inability to cum and if that wasn't enough you grow a pair of tits on some cases. There's also suicidal ideation on a very small percentage of people and instead of helping you stabilize/control/get rid of your depression, it worsens it to the point that you end up killing yourself.....

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

The only thing you get from antidepressants is weight gain, erectile dysfunction, loss of libido, inability to cum and if that wasn't enough you grow a pair of tits on some cases. There's also suicidal ideation on a very small percentage of people and instead of helping you stabilize/control/get rid of your depression, it worsens it to the point that you end up killing yourself.....

Absolutely!

SSRI's made it hard to feel any joy, creativity or anything. It just made me feel like an automaton that still had depression.
Both SSRI's & antipsychotics make me feel like a part of myself is being blocked.

Hell they don't even know & can't prove that people with severe depression have anything wrong with their serotonin. It's only a theory.
There has never been any scans or imaging done of a brain of a depressed person proving their serotonin is low and then the use of an SSRI boosting their serotonin & alleviating their depression. It's very deceiving.

And they hand these thiings out (which also cause dependence) to anyone who even remotely complains of mild depression, which everyone has at some point in their life.

 

[nznity]

I couildn't agree more about the current class of drugs used for depression. SSRI's have never done jack shit for me. In fact, I'm pretty sure they're mostly placebo.
When the SSRI's don't work, they head straight for the lithium or antipsychotics. How they think that is going to help a depressed patient is illogical to me.

Me neither man, it baffles me how those meds are even fucking legal. It's pure fucking torture taking those substances...they turn you into a complete zombie, it does indeed do jack shit for depression. Especially those depot injections Invega Sustenna cough cough* I've never taken it myself but had a friend who got 2 shots of that poison against his will and if it wasn't for the fact that he told me his shrink had injected him with some medication that had taken all the joy out of his life(I explained it what that shit did to your body and all the side effects). He started crying and said that his psychiatrist wanted to give him like 2 or 3 more shots but now that he knew what was causing him feel that way, he confronted thst bastard and also talked to his mom that there was no way he was gonna let them inject him with more of that shit but he was already fucked. It took him like 4 months for him to start feeling somewhat normal and he couldn't even get high or feel the effects of benzos. He was desperate to get high(he's an immature kid, he just Wanted to continue getting high so as soon as he felt better.....he bought 12 vials of ketamine). Needless to say, he's in a 1 year rehab right now after doing the most retarded shit ever, he stole 300 bucks from his mother, she passed him that but 2 days later when he traded his phone for more cocaine and ketamine + arrived at his house all fucked up....his mother had to do what she had to do, he was out of control.
He's 22 but he acts like a child, hope next time I talk to him he's a new man. Damn I've derailed so much haha but my friends story was the perfect example of how antidepressants/antipsychotics don't do jackshit, it's been already half a year anyway time flies. He gets out of rehab In October lawlz.

 

[nznity]

Absolutely!

SSRI's made it hard to feel any joy, creativity or anything. It just made me feel like an automaton that still had depression.
Both SSRI's & antipsychotics make me feel like a part of myself is being blocked.

Hell they don't even know & can't prove that people with severe depression have anything wrong with their serotonin. It's only a theory.
There has never been any scans or imaging done of a brain of a depressed person proving their serotonin is low and then the use of an SSRI boosting their serotonin & alleviating their depression. It's very deceiving.

And they hand these thiings out (which also cause dependence) to anyone who even remotely complains of mild depression, which everyone has at some point in their life.

Same with the schizophrenia/excess dopamine theory lolll.

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

Me neither man, it baffles me how those meds are even fucking legal. It's pure fucking torture taking those substances...they turn you into a complete zombie, it does indeed do jack shit for depression. Especially those depot injections Invega Sustenna cough cough* I've never taken it myself but had a friend who got 2 shots of that poison against his will and if it wasn't for the fact that he told me his shrink had injected him with some medication that had taken all the joy out of his life(I explained it what that shit did to your body and all the side effects). He started crying and said that his psychiatrist wanted to give him like 2 or 3 more shots but now that he knew what was causing him feel that way, he confronted thst bastard and also talked to his mom that there was no way he was gonna let them inject him with more of that shit but he was already fucked. It took him like 4 months for him to start feeling somewhat normal and he couldn't even get high or feel the effects of benzos. He was desperate to get high(he's an immature kid, he just Wanted to continue getting high so as soon as he felt better.....he bought 12 vials of ketamine). Needless to say, he's in a 1 year rehab right now after doing the most retarded shit ever, he stole 300 bucks from his mother, she passed him that but 2 days later when he traded his phone for more cocaine and ketamine + arrived at his house all fucked up....his mother had to do what she had to do, he was out of control.
He's 22 but he acts like a child, hope next time I talk to him he's a new man. Damn I've derailed so much haha but my friends story was the perfect example of how antidepressants/antipsychotics don't do jackshit, it's been already half a year anyway time flies. He gets out of rehab In October lawlz.

Holy Jesus!
Yeah I have never let them give me those damn injections. Thankfuilly I like to study drugs & shit, so I research everything & will straight up tell my doctors that anything blocking my dopamine or inhibiting serotonin is only gonna make my issues worse.

I can remember being 22 and doing a lot of stupid shit too. hopefully that guy comes around though and learns how to handle himself and his drugs. But I can understand the torture of how it feels when you try a psychiatric medicine and it changes you for awhile. It's a gross feeling.

Happened to me with vraylar last year. Only after a few doses, I felt so strange. My coordination was so bad that I lost my ability to drive. Felt really detached. Then I look it up and discover that the shit has a half-life of 25 days. Longest fucking half-life of any drug I've ever taken. I immediately quit taking it and it took well over a week or two before I actually felt the effects wear off.


It's frightening how these 'scientists' and 'chemists' are finding more and more drugs that completely remove your personality and they're trying to make them more permanent with injections & drugs with insane half-lives. Pretty scary shit. lol

 

[nznity]

I can remember being 22 and doing a lot of stupid shit too. hopefully that guy comes around though and learns how to handle himself and his drugs. But I can understand the torture of how it feels when you try a psychiatric medicine and it changes you for awhile. It's a gross .

Me too man, haha. But my lil buddy was on automatic mode being reckless and all he would do was just say sorry for the stupid things he'd done I.e he broke the microwave plate from my kitchen tryinh to cook his ket I told him not to fuckin shoot IM before cooking his shit, I told him to be sober when he was cooking AND AFTERWARDS he could get high. Man, he had 12 sealed brand new vials of ketamine and the drugs.....it's not as if they were going anywhere but he sneaked into my bathroom and he couldn't resist, opened up one vial and shot in his calf unbeknownst to me. I was playing play station so I let him use the kitchen when after 5 mins I hear this BOOM and when I asked "NACHO WHAT THE FUCK HAPPENED?. ALL he could do/say was "I'm sorry" all k'd out of his mind and my plate all scattered over the floor along with like 6 vials of k wasted too. I was like "fuck I knew this kid was gonna do something stoop1d but I was like oh well it's my fault for not supervising it*.
The kid was sad bcs his gf had broken up with him and all he wanted to do was to get high* but couldn't do it in his place, he asked if he could come to mine but I put 2 conditions for him to come:
First, to bring me a 6 pack of beer(since I don't like ketamine too much, with a lil bit I'm fine)
Finally, 2nd but MOST IMPORTANT was to fucking behave and not do Any stupid shit at my house
most important thing I told him not to do....and first thing he did .
I saw it coming anyway the kid was acting recklessly( he was getting high with money stole from his mother)
I even spent the whole afternoon giving him advices to not do the same mistakes as I did too at that age but he was more interested in holing and injecting K into his muscles. Tbh, I'm glad he's in rehab he was out of control...he still owes me a microwave plate

It's frightening how these 'scientists' and 'chemists' are finding more and more drugs that completely remove your personality and they're trying to make them more permanent with injections & drugs with insane half-lives. Pretty scary shit. lol

And what' makes me angry is that they use us as guinea pigs to try those poisons on us and fkn profit off us!

 

[Fertile]

Given how buprenorphine works, it's not really a surprise that it causes anhedonia. Ask about methadone.

Anhedonia as a key clinical feature in the maintenance and treatment of opioid use disorder

There is a critical need for research on clinical features that may influence response to treatment for opioid use disorder (OUD). Given its neurobiology and relevance to opioid use, anhedonia may be one such promising clinical feature. We identified ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Effects of Buprenorphine on Responses to Emotional Stimuli in Individuals with a Range of Mood Symptomatology

The opioid drug buprenorphine has been shown to modify responses to emotional stimuli and may have antidepressant properties. In preclinical studies, it shows antidepressant-like and anxiolytic-like effects, and a handful of clinical studies suggest it ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Suboxone and Anhedonia, a phase IV clinical study of FDA data - eHealthMe

There are 27,533 people reported to have side effects when taking Suboxone. Among them, 52 (0.19%) have anhedonia. These people tend to be male, 50-59 old, have been taking the drug for 2 - 5 years, also take medication Truvada, and have Hiv infection

www.ehealthme.com

Throw the doctor these articles. stage IV trials actually means pharmacovigilance i.e. reports back from doctors to the FDA (in the case of the USA) and in this case, it's patients who are concomitantly given antidepressants but STILL commit suicide. It's not a small number. By all means let the doctor play with antidepressants but apart from possibly tianeepitine Iwhich works via opiate receptors) then I do not think it will help.

For too long the suicide rate has been blamed on opiate users having poor impulse control and so on....

But people who have been on buprenorphine for 6 months are likely keeping up with their meds better than 95% of patients.

I also HATE that presumption that impulse control is the issue. I have 54 OxyContin and about as many OxyNorm and I take it when I need it for pain. I was, well, making my own analgesics before I went to a drug clinic who passed me onto a pain clinic who took one look at me and asked WHY I had not been given (equally potent) opioids for the last decade.....

So I am the rare case. Someone who turned up thinking they had an opioid problem to find I had a crap doctor problem.

I guess OxyContin is OK but I HATE the fact that I need them. If I choose to, then that is one thing, but to be so crippled I need them to get out of bed is NOT fun.... also, maybe it's just me but Oxy feels like too much caffeine. Not nice at all.

 

[emkee_reinvented]

BTW ONLY The Netherlands uses dextromoramide. It's designed to replace the IV rush - some users are all about the rush, not the high.

Methasone was the first 'rationally designed' opioid and was developed by a team at I.G. Farbenindustrie. It was originally considered too toxic.... I guess they compared the LD50 to that of morphine.

Before methadone, metopon was used. It's about twice as potent as morphine and is much more active orally (but still under n50%)
.

Dextromoramide has been removed from the pharmacotherapeutical kompas.

So the chance anybody getting them is slim

 

[Fertile]

Wow - that's quite recent then. Dextromoramide was being produced (according the Pharmacompass) until 2021 at least.

Well, it was a brave attempt. I suspect that too many tablets were finding their way onto the streets. Someone I knew was given some when he was in Amsterdam a few years ago.

 

[Narco09]

Back to on-topic.

Any Dutch person here can tell about the maintenance treatment in NETHERLANDS. Would be extremely grateful

 

[Narco09]

I try to talk in holland with my medications, if they know better. I would like to stop taking SSRi and antipsychotics. But im TERRIFIED that a new case of psychosis comes on.(ive had only one, ten years ago). It was way beyond horrible hell, super-natural, satanic fucking "universe fucking with you 24/7" with every piece of information for weeks. oof. I dont want to have that ever again.

 

[Arnold]

I try to talk in holland with my medications, if they know better. I would like to stop taking SSRi and antipsychotics. But im TERRIFIED that a new case of psychosis comes on.(ive had only one, ten years ago). It was way beyond horrible hell, super-natural, satanic fucking "universe fucking with you 24/7" with every piece of information for weeks. oof. I dont want to have that ever again.

Soz not much help.

Ik wil stoppen of minderen met het gebruik van heroïne | Thuisarts.nl

www.thuisarts.nl

Loads of frogs in Maastricht though.