Maintenance treatment in Netherlands

[Fertile]

BTW ONLY The Netherlands uses dextromoramide. It's designed to replace the IV rush - some users are all about the rush, not the high.

Methasone was the first 'rationally designed' opioid and was developed by a team at I.G. Farbenindustrie. It was originally considered too toxic.... I guess they compared the LD50 to that of morphine.

Before methadone, metopon was used. It's about twice as potent as morphine and is much more active orally (but still under n50%)
.

 

[nznity]

I thought methadone was invented in Germany, or do you mean Methadone maintenance?

Many opioids were invented in Germany actually.





I always remember the Netherlands even using actual diacetylmorphine for maintenance, although I don't know if they still do or how you can get it.

Dutch cut overdose deaths by dispensing pure heroin

Public-health experts in the Netherlands say free distribution of heroin is one reason that drug-related deaths are far less common than in the United States. The program also has reduced crime and improved the quality of life for many users.

www.cleveland.com

Man that guy in the article is a fkn clown, how is Diamorphine maintenance not a therapy and he considers it giving "free drugs" to people? isn't fucking suboxone and methadone drugs too.....they are all just fucking labels that don't really matter. Why not give the pharmaceutical version of the fking drug ppl want to do so they don't risk their lives seeking them on the streets. It's all a bunch of bullshit too that u have to be at least 35 and have already tried all types of therapies before thry can give u heroin. Man, they make it so complicated for nothing. Heroin should be fking legal, not everyone likes it anyway. Zzz, fking politicians they just don't legalize drugs cause Lotta sectors would lose money....it all comes down to that, stupid cotton paper.

 

[Nas47]

Methadone was invested in Germany In the 1930s. Or well synthesized because I think you were referring to the fact that you Americans invented the methadone replacement therapy.

U.S. take patent of med,which was invented in nazi Germany 1940.The second fully syntetic opioid after demerol in 1938 also in Germany.Used like painkiller also on front.Later americans start to maintain subst.programs in U.S.Even Burroughs was written something about it.Dolophine used in Lexingtone psych.warden

 

[nznity]

U.S. take patent of med,which was invented in nazi Germany 1940.The second fully syntetic opioid after demerol in 1938 also in Germany.Used like painkiller also on front.Later americans start to maintain subst.programs in U.S.Even Burroughs was written something about it.Dolophine used in Lexingtone psych.warden

U.S took the patent of the medication, which was invented by the nazi Germans in 1940. The second fully synthetic opioid developed after demerol which was synthesized in 1938 also in Germany. Used as a painkiller on front(?). Years later , Americans began to experiment with substitution maintenance programs. Even William Burroughs wrote something about it. Methadone(Dolophine) used in Lexington's psych ward.
It was entertaining doing that, I'm bored as hell. Sowwy uu

 

[Nas47]

Well be bored

 

[Nas47]

Little error if you want.1940 as i remember,not 1930

 

[Jen X]

I've seen Canadian 'pink' methadone and noted how much more respect Canadian pharmacists give clients.

I never had to use them - we toured Windsor and I got about 50 boxes of codeine/paracetamol and cleaned them (the proper DMSO route) and even made some deoxymorphine. 1g lasted us 20 days.

But the US could learn from Canada. The pharmacist treated the client with the same respect as any other customer. One of the MAIN reasons I do not switch to buprenorphine or methadone is the attitude of pharmacists.... I did it once, but never again - being treated like scum. One of them I seriously considered burning down, so ANGRY I was... but then I discovered that the pharmacist's son had a HUGE habit and being Muslims, they will always try to keep the family together.... then the son stole keys and ripped off every salable pill on the shop. So I guess justice was done - the owner saw how his own kid acted.... and wondered (as parents to, if iT was HIS fault.

I've heard horror stories from some americans on the treatment they receive . My old doctor and pharmacist treated everyone well and were nice to the homeless. Even let me start a box for food donations in the wait room.

 

[Fertile]

I think John Cooper Clarke summed up opiates perfectly 'first it's fun, then it's not, then it's hell'. Sadly their are too many people who still disagree with methadone maintenance. They don't see that for a lot of people - it's the only way out. I don't know of a dingle user who wanted to stop who didn't just try cold turkey. The US in particular seems to have both extremes - prescribes x10 the amount of opiates than any EU nation and yet charge for methadone therapy.

Now their is a rush of medicinal chemists developing 'biased ligands' that bind to both mu & delta receptors but supposedly do not cause beta II arrestin recruitment.... brorphine supposedly being one, although it's turned up as an RC so I PRESUME people like it.

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

I love opiates/opioids. Suboxone didn't kill my cravings for heroin, but it did stop me from ever wanting to drink alcohol again. Which was probably better for me in the long run than an alcohol addiction (which killed my oldest sister) & destroyed another one. Also 2 of my best friends have been destroying themselves with alcohol for as long as I've known them. They would not have the organ failure & brain/organ damage they have now if they were life long opioid addicts instead (although with street drugs & a lack of education, they could easily die from them too).

I don't care what anyone's moral viewpoint of them are. We should be allowed to use them.

 

[nznity]

Little error if you want.1940 as i remember,not 1930

Nope, it's correct. Methadone was synthesized in 1938.

 

[nznity]

I don't care what anyone's moral viewpoint of them are. We should be allowed to use them.

Even in the most advanced countries there's still this big stigma surrounding opiates. They don't legalize them cause they care about us, the simple reason they don't legalize it, it's cause they would lose a shit ton of money. They don't give a fk about us ppl in pain.

 

[Nas47]

Nope, it's correct. Methadone was synthesized in 1938.

Ok,ok.Not be bored

 

[izo]

Germany has also begun with treating addicts with heroin. First it was just a test run in frankfurt and the center right political party was against it but finally it got accepted in whole Germany.

 

[Nas47]

I did't know that.Austria have also different subst.programs as i know...but that a countries example some sort for me.

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

Even in the most advanced countries there's still this big stigma surrounding opiates. They don't legalize them cause they care about us, the simple reason they don't legalize it, it's cause they would lose a shit ton of money. They don't give a fk about us ppl in pain.

This is the conclusion I've come to about us in the USA.

They don't want people to feel good.


Opiates were once used here as psychiatric medicines, with great efficiency before SSRI's & antipsychotic took over.
They are also incredibly cheap to make, if they wanted to.

It is my belief that if everyone knew that opioids aren't as deadly as they believe & have the potential to treat a wide array of issues, then the pharma companies stand to lose money because if I could take pure diacetylmorphine everyday, then who needs SSRI's, mood stabilizers, antipsychotics, etc..

Not to mention whenever I would use a full agonist, I would feel content on it, I wouldn't need alcohol. I didn't feel the need to indulge in consumerism and go buy shit or anything like that. I was simply happy, entertained & peaceful with myself, my music & maybe some cannabis and my cigarettes.




This is why we are seeing so much opioid demonization. On any other website I use, if I happen to mention the fact to people that opioids are technically safer than long term alcohol use, I have all kinds of morons attack me & act like I'm ignorant for saying that, when it's the truth. Not to mention the 'ease' in which they make it sound like one can overdose on an opioid is exaggerated & often just as difficult or as easy to achieve as an alcohol overdose (which nobody seems to care about).

Alcohol & tobacco kill more people annually than opioids every year & most of those opioid deaths can be attributed to poly-substance overdoses. Therefore they can make look opiates look super deadly & scary when it's not even really the case. And the masses choose to stay ignorant on this because they've been deeply engrained to think opioids are bad, opioids = death & yaddah yaddah.



If I can say I've learned anything over the past 5-10 years, it's that society is incredibly fucking brainwashed and programmed to go with whatever they're told. Some how they've gotten society to think it's normal & "the right thing" to do by withholding medicines from people who could benefit from them. All on the basis that "feelings of wellbeing & euphoria is bad" & "we don't want you to get addicted & overdose, but here let's have a drink".

 

[Fertile]

I love opiates/opioids. Suboxone didn't kill my cravings for heroin, but it did stop me from ever wanting to drink alcohol again. Which was probably better for me in the long run than an alcohol addiction (which killed my oldest sister) & destroyed another one. Also 2 of my best friends have been destroying themselves with alcohol for as long as I've known them. They would not have the organ failure & brain/organ damage they have now if they were life long opioid addicts instead (although with street drugs & a lack of education, they could easily die from them too).

I don't care what anyone's moral viewpoint of them are. We should be allowed to use them.

William S. Burroughs noted that opiates were a sure cure for alcoholism. Suboxone, sadly, seems to cause anhedonia in a significant number of patients. Maybe thienorphine will be a better treatment. It's duration is so long that it can be given twice a week, it's Ki so low it will blockade almost any other opioid and it's TI is reassuringly high.... seems too good to be true. Of course, it may never reach anywhere outside of China (where it was developed).

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

William S. Burroughs noted that opiates were a sure cure for alcoholism. Suboxone, sadly, seems to cause anhedonia in a significant number of patients. Maybe thienorphine will be a better treatment. It's duration is so long that it can be given twice a week, it's Ki so low it will blockade almost any other opioid and it's TI is reassuringly high.... seems too good to be true. Of course, it may never reach anywhere outside of China (where it was developed).

They absolutely cured mine, even suboxone.


Although I've ended up depressed & unhappy on suboxone. I've read that because of it's pharmacology, chronic adminstration of buprenorphine will lead to dopamine reduction & anhedonia. I believe it. I think if it weren't a shitty partial agonist with a ceiling effect and minimal mu activation, it would be better.

 

[nznity]

This is why we are seeing so much opioid demonization. On any other website I use, if I happen to mention the fact to people that opioids are technically safer than long term alcohol use, I have all kinds of morons attack me & act like I'm ignorant for saying that, when it's the truth. Not to mention the 'ease' in which they make it sound like one can overdose on an opioid is exaggerated & often just as difficult or as easy to achieve as an alcohol overdose (which nobody seems to care about).

It's been proven over the years many times( I think no other drugs have been more studied than opiates) that even used everyday at high doses they are benign drugs. They don't damage any single organ in the body(unlike alcohol which destroys every single organ if you abuse them everyday), the only problem you could encounter is chronic constipation and low levels of testosterone but nothing death threatening and that isn't irreversible if you quit. Also, the overdose rate is very low if you don't combine opiates with other downers and don't inject them. IF YOU USE YOUR MEDICATION AS THEY WERE DESIGNED TO BE CONSUMED you aren't risking your life honestly.

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

It's been proven over the years many times( I think no other drugs have been more studied than opiates) that even used everyday at high doses they are benign drugs. They don't damage any single organ in the body(unlike alcohol which destroys every single organ if you abuse them everyday), the only problem you could encounter is chronic constipation and low levels of testosterone but nothing death threatening and that isn't irreversible if you quit. Also, the overdose rate is very low if you don't combine opiates with other downers and don't inject them. IF YOU USE YOUR MEDICATION AS THEY WERE DESIGNED TO BE CONSUMED you aren't risking your life honestly.

Exactly! Well said!


Can't tell you often I'll be watching youtube & get some ad about how horrible opioid addiction is & how if anyone you know uses them are in danger of dying. lol
The next ad is a nice alcohol ad, celebrating a shit drug that can & does destroy people. Ironic.

It's almost like they have an agenda to restrict people's access to some of the best medicines.

 

[nznity]

Exactly! Well said!


Can't tell you often I'll be watching youtube & get some ad about how horrible opioid addiction is & how if anyone you know uses them are in danger of dying. lol
The next ad is a nice alcohol ad, celebrating a shit drug that can & does destroy people. Ironic.

It's almost like they have an agenda to restrict people's access to some of the best medicines..

It's funny when thry call ketamine horse tranquilizer* when it's the same shit for humans.