KraziKat's Quit II: This time it's for real!

[KraziKat]

KK, sounds like you are killing it, man. You have so much strength. You don't even realize. Look back through your posts and see how far you have come. You've got over a week off subs? That's awesome!! It's a roller coaster. It sucks and you question yourself the whole way through. Stick with it. I'm so happy to come back and see how well you've been doing!

Also, I agree with everybody about the help. Get the support you need. I've been seeing a therapist and it has really helped. For me, there is so much guilt associated with this that I can't imagine getting past it without hemorrhaging some of it out and having some guidance getting through it.

I wouldn't say "killing it," but I am getting better I suppose when I can see through the fog. I actually just re-read through some of your thread to see how you handled things, particularly with regard to kratom... The weekend was rough, real rough. I caved to kratom since the sub half life wore off, and I am regretting it as I feel it's a setback that I was determined to not have to endure.

I need to string multiple days together of not tickling my opiate receptors which kratom certainly does. I've only dosed once a day the last 3 days. But still.

I am 9 days off subs, more than a month off my DOC, so there's that...

I am so busy at work atm which is making this extra hard, and I have a lot of important work stuff on the horizon.

 

[KraziKat]

This past weekend was extra hard and emotional. Saturday marked a week since jumping off subs, and I was in such a fog... broke down to the wife - AGAIN. I'm still married, and she has my back, but I am afraid to put her through the ringer anymore than I have. So now she knows about my drinking problem, the subs, and an oxy relapse (but not the depths of it).

She asked for and I gave her the leftover subs I had, which she flushed. If that hadn't happened I would have taken a nibble for sure by now. For sure.

I held on to the kratom, however, though tomorrow or the next day, when I finish a major work deadline, I'll give that up. I have decent supply of zolpidem for sleep, and some xanax which I am trying to use sparingly. Since quitting subs I have taken about 15-20 mg adderall, but I'll be out of that tomorrow and wont get more.

 

[KraziKat]

I went to my first NA meeting on Sunday. I did not speak. In fact, I'm sure I sat in the wrong place. What's this about inner circles and outer circles?

 

[aihfl]

I went to my first NA meeting on Sunday. I did not speak. In fact, I'm sure I sat in the wrong place. What's this about inner circles and outer circles?

That's nothing I've ever heard of in my 4-5 years of going to 12 step meetings.

 

[Grinders Kiefers]

I went to my first NA meeting on Sunday. I did not speak. In fact, I'm sure I sat in the wrong place. What's this about inner circles and outer circles?

Was it the three circles? I've heard of that being used in SAA (sex addicts anonymous): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_circles

As far as I know, there's nothing in NA literature that refers to three circles or inner/outer circles. Maybe there's something in one of the newer informational pamphlets. NA meetings are autonomous so perhaps this group has adopted some esoteric approach. I would ask someone who knows about it if you go back to that same meeting, it's not something I've encountered or even heard of before.

 

[KraziKat]

Thanks Ai and Grinders. Maybe it has something to do with this particular meeting which I think meets at the same place daily. It's part of an niche hospital for mental patients, old folks and addicts. A lot of the people at the meeting were there in-patient... they had the wristbands on and stuff. They were all in the inner circle, while the our ring were people with years of sobriety who had gone through the program. I was afraid I'd get get called on, as of course I sat in the outer away from all the action... I didn't speak once, just listened.

 

[Tombs]

That's nothing I've ever heard of in my 4-5 years of going to 12 step meetings.

Ditto, must be specific to the meeting.

How you feeling today KK?

I took 2 percs today because I couldn't get out of bed due to pain.

I'm not taking them to stave off withdrawal, so I'm thankful for that.

 

[KraziKat]

Ditto, must be specific to the meeting.

How you feeling today KK?

I took 2 percs today because I couldn't get out of bed due to pain.

I'm not taking them to stave off withdrawal, so I'm thankful for that.

Hi Tombs! I'm feeling pretty rough, as per usual these days. Today I will attempt to go without kratom for the first time, and maybe settle for just a beer or two at night. I'm weak, and craving, but at the same time never more committed to getting this right.

I didn't get drunk last night. Just had a couple, then after the effect wore off I took xanax which bought me 2 or 3 hours sleep, and then I was up at 1 AM and I took 10 mg ambien. With all I have going on at work, and looking after my kids, I simply can't afford to be a sleepless mess right now. Maybe tomorrow. If I get all my work done today, I'll take tomorrow off to just be home and do nothing.

I have to think that the longer I move away from opiods and extreme alcoholic drinking (slugs in the middle of the night, hiding bottles, guzzling vodka, etc) I should gradually start to feel better.

I've been drinking and drugging for 20+ years. I'm 42. Though didn't become a total pill-popping junkie til I was 37 or so. Though having liquor at home has been a constant for as long as I can remember... I have to know that I'm simply not going to feel better overnight.

 

[ladyhlove]

Hey Kat! I was wondering how you were doing so I came on over to your thread.

You're doing well! I know you don't think you are, but you are!

I struggled with borderline alcoholism before my pill use, which also came a bit later in my life than some. (started at 29, 32 now). Actually my main reason for thinking that it was totally cool to take opiates all the time was that is curbed my drinking so much. I could go out to the bar and have those one or 2 beers and stop, something I struggled with a lot off of opiates. I've still been drinking throughout my opiate recovery, but I've been pretty good. I've over imbibed about twice since going into ope recovery. The hangovers I get are really bad and those 2 times were no exception. I also get this lingering hangover depression that lasts for about two or three days after my physical hangover subsides. I imagine your rough days can be partially attributed to that. Right now, I've told myself that its ok to have a drink or two during this (I can't do full on CT...it will lead to a massive relapse of everything, trust me I've done this before) but if it starts getting out of hand, I need to cut alcohol out too. So far, I've been ok. Had one beer at dinner last night with a friend but didn't really drink at all this past weekend. I've had to give up the MJ though, sadly. My work has instated a "random" (they're gonna fucking test me first, I know it) drug test policy that will officially go into effect in 60 days from yesterday. Luckily, the test (probably) won't test for subs, so I'm good on that end but I have to quit smoking. That and it's impossible to move through my program if I test poz for anything. So, day 3 without mj. It sucks but I'm not, like, in pain.

Good job for telling your wife! You know I've been suggesting that to you for awhile. I know you weren't completely honest, but sometimes that's what you have to do especially when you're dealing with someone who doesn't completely understand what you're going through. I told my ex about my addiction, but left out the heroin part (told him I was using opiates, but left it at pills, heroin is just too much for me to let him know about right now). I wish I could tell him everything, but the stigma around H is so strong I know it would probably change the way he sees me forever. That and he loves to tell his fucking mom everything. She's a rich, white, trump supporter and judgmental as all hell but she understands pill addictions (she's a nurse)....heroin and she'd probably never let me near her home ever again.

 

[aihfl]

Krazi, I have been a lifelong insomniac. I can tell you with three months since my last relapse that the alcohol and benzos are not really helping you. Alcohol helps you fall asleep but the sleep quality during the second half of the night will be compromised. I knew several years ago that I really needed to stop because my drinking had gotten to the point it was actually preventing me from falling asleep (it made me weirdly wired) and if I did drink enough to pass out, I would still be drunk when I woke up. Same issue with alprazolam. It's so short acting that if you're taking it to fall asleep, once it clears your system, rebound insomnia is going to be an issue. My psychiatrist told me to stop taking lorazepam (Ativan) for sleep for that reason and prescribed me two sedating antidepressants, mirtazapine (Remeron) and doxepin, although I only take the doxepin if the Remeron doesn't knock me out or I can sleep in the following morning. My sleep patterns are pretty much normal now that I've had zero alcohol for three months and only take the occasional Ativan for extreme anxiety or panic. Other things you can do is practice good hygiene. I used to sleep with lights on (partly due to irrational phobias and the fact I used to live in a house I believe to be haunted), read, watch TV and do all sorts of other things that keep your mind occupied, in bed, but my therapist told me not to do anything in bed except sleep or have sex, and since I have no one special in my life right now, that leaves only sleep. He said otherwise the mind comes to associate the bed with wakefulness. Anyway, once you get some distance from booze and Xanax, your sleep patterns will return to normal and it won't even take that much time.

 

[KraziKat]

Krazi, I have been a lifelong insomniac. I can tell you with three months since my last relapse that the alcohol and benzos are not really helping you. Alcohol helps you fall asleep but the sleep quality during the second half of the night will be compromised. I knew several years ago that I really needed to stop because my drinking had gotten to the point it was actually preventing me from falling asleep (it made me weirdly wired) and if I did drink enough to pass out, I would still be drunk when I woke up. Same issue with alprazolam. It's so short acting that if you're taking it to fall asleep, once it clears your system, rebound insomnia is going to be an issue. My psychiatrist told me to stop taking lorazepam (Ativan) for sleep for that reason and prescribed me two sedating antidepressants, mirtazapine (Remeron) and doxepin, although I only take the doxepin if the Remeron doesn't knock me out or I can sleep in the following morning. My sleep patterns are pretty much normal now that I've had zero alcohol for three months and only take the occasional Ativan for extreme anxiety or panic. Other things you can do is practice good hygiene. I used to sleep with lights on (partly due to irrational phobias and the fact I used to live in a house I believe to be haunted), read, watch TV and do all sorts of other things that keep your mind occupied, in bed, but my therapist told me not to do anything in bed except sleep or have sex, and since I have no one special in my life right now, that leaves only sleep. He said otherwise the mind comes to associate the bed with wakefulness. Anyway, once you get some distance from booze and Xanax, your sleep patterns will return to normal and it won't even take that much time.

I find it so hard to not drink at least a little and pop whatever pills I happen to have

Just gotta STOP. Or run out and not get more and ignore every urge and resist the liquor store temptation that is everywhere. Sounds simple enough.

 

[aihfl]

Just gotta STOP. Or run out and not get more and ignore every urge and resist the liquor store temptation that is everywhere. Sounds simple enough.

We are about the same age (I'm 44) and I started my binge drinking career at 17. It's not simple. I can say there is nothing worse than quitting alcohol. Nothing. It's fucking everywhere and maybe it's just me but I'm much more cognizant of just how many liquor stores there are now that I've stopped. Getting opiates for me involved making and getting to an appointment with a shady pain doctor plus a trip to the pharmacy to have the script filled. Alcohol? I didn't even have to leave my house after discovering instacart.com will do alcohol home deliveries.

 

[KraziKat]

We are about the same age (I'm 44) and I started my binge drinking career at 17. It's not simple. I can say there is nothing worse than quitting alcohol. Nothing. It's fucking everywhere and maybe it's just me but I'm much more cognizant of just how many liquor stores there are now that I've stopped. Getting opiates for me involved making and getting to an appointment with a shady pain doctor plus a trip to the pharmacy to have the script filled. Alcohol? I didn't even have to leave my house after discovering instacart.com will do alcohol home deliveries.

I hear that. It's also so damn cheap compared to the hundreds and thousands of dollars I was forking over once, twice, three times a month to buy the 30 mg oxycodone pills that was prescribed to someone other than me. However, booze is indeed poison. If I were taking percs I'd be dead by now, no question.

Like LadyHLove says above, it was easy to not drink a lot when I had 200 mg a day of oxy running through my veins, and then it was 30+ grams of kratom... which I always drink on. I'd like to stop this demon in my tracks. I am heeding what you are cautioning, aihfl, but I admit I am struggling.

It's like with all those years in active oxy addiction -- I KNOW this is bad, but I am doing it. Autopilot. Same with booze. I KNOW this is so bad for me, but sometimes I go on autopilot to those liquor stores.

Fuck me. Swigging booze in my car, or basement or garage, then going inside and nursing a beer. Drinking beers is like not even drinking... it's like a night off. Like my wife asks, "How come you just can't stick to beer? Can you at least pour it in a glass?"

It was easier to swear off booze and/or cut back while on opiates or kratom. And it's always easier with cannabis. But I know I need to walk through the fire, suffer, be sleepless, sweat, be anxious, be humble, and all that good stuff... and above all, be honest.

Thanks as always for checking in and providing guidance, aihfl, I am hearing your words about not going down that rabbit hole. I have never had REAL alcohol WD, just hangovers and intense anxiety. When I took 3 weeks off drinking last spring, when I first came to BL, I didn't sleep for a week. But then I felt better. But then I immersed myself in kratom, then back to oxy, then booze, beer, adderall, benzos, blah blah blah!! ARGH!!!

Okay, I feel better now. Thank you everyone for you kind words, support and encouragement.

 

[KraziKat]

Hi Everyone! I hope all us SL BLers had a happy and healthy-ish holiday weekend.

Today is day five off kratom, more than 2 weeks since suboxone, and 6 weeks plus since oxy, my DOC (really not sure). I am not sober, but I am not in the opiate game, so there's that. I feel myself getting stronger without them, at least ever-so-slightly. I have serious waves of anxiety every day, and overall fatigue. This is normal, yes?

At night, I medicate myself to sleep with either xanax or ambien, though my stash is running low... and when they're gone, they're gone. I have cut down on alcohol but have not cut it totally. It's a battle every night. CBD/THC works great, when I use it. Must use it more instead of booze and pills!

I played tennis on Saturday which felt great. Not sure I've ever mentioned his here, but I used to be an avid, competitive tennis player. It had been months. My tennis buddy, who is a drug guy and had been urging me for years to quit opiates, was very encouraging... however, he is a cocaine user, and we always do bumps while we play. And this time was no different. But I literally don't have the nose for that drug. One day of use and I'm plugged for days or even weeks.

Also, as hypocritical as this sounds, I went to an NA meeting, and I enjoyed it. I got someone's number and everything. Of course, obviously, I am not ready to seriously work a 12-step program having only given up opiates, but it helped reinforce that part of me.

 

[KraziKat]

Also, I am not sure if the anxiety I get is from the opiated WD and PAWS, or from the benzo/ambien habit I've picked up. Thoughts? FYI, I usually only take these at night to sleep, and it's been a good month on em. Sometimes I'll take during the day when it's real bad... but never more than 1 or 2 grams (xan bar) tops a day

 

[aihfl]

It may be the Xanax. With it's short half life, rebound anxiety can be an issue and 2mg a day is leaning toward a heavy dose. It sounds counterintuitive but you're probably better off if you don't use it every day. Trust me, you don't want to have to deal tolerance issues then deal with a taper. It takes a long time and withdrawal can be hell. You'd be better off using kratom - WDs are not nearly as bad. And either stick with the Ambien or find something else to knock you out. Alprazolam's short half life doesn't make it well suited for insomnia.

 

[KraziKat]

It may be the Xanax. With it's short half life, rebound anxiety can be an issue and 2mg a day is leaning toward a heavy dose. It sounds counterintuitive but you're probably better off if you don't use it every day. Trust me, you don't want to have to deal tolerance issues then deal with a taper. It takes a long time and withdrawal can be hell. You'd be better off using kratom - WDs are not nearly as bad. And either stick with the Ambien or find something else to knock you out. Alprazolam's short half life doesn't make it well suited for insomnia.

Welp, I have two bars left and then that's that, and on to Ambien. Will try to half those as well to make em last a little longer.

I am still open to seeing a shrink that can prescribe, as you suggested. Just haven't gone there yet as I continue to self-medicate. However, I am happy to say I'm 6 days off kratom today and 2+ weeks since sub and maybe 2 months since oxy.

 

[ladyhlove]

Dude GO KAT! I'm so proud of how far you've come since we both started on this lil forum here just a couple months ago :D !!!

 

[KraziKat]

^Thank you Lady for the kind words, but if I'm honest – and if I'm not what's the point of all this – I am really struggling today, white knuckling it for sure. While I am opiate-free, kratom included (will be one week tomorrow), I am not very sober.

I've sniffed a little cocaine this week as it fell into my lap and I didn't have the self control to say NO THANKS. And I've used alcohol at night until I get stoned, and then all cravings basically subside for the night... until I wake up at 2:30 AM.

2:34 to be exact.

I fall asleep with my son at around 10 or 10:30, and I wake up at 2:34 and take half an Ambien. Last night's wake-up was a win as I did not chase with with booze.

I learned one of my good friends today scored a whole bunch of Blues from the dealer I put him in touch with. No pun intended, but that's a tough pill to swallow. Not so much due to my own cravings for the pills – which are VERY high atm, but because he is today like I was 6 years ago, nibbling on a blue... a quarter here and there. So I am scared he will succumb like so many others. He is a well-respected medical professional, owns his own practice. I'd hate to see him lose it all, and I'd feel horrible if he did and responsible, although he'll do what he wants (he can prescribe for god's sake!)

Anyway, that's where I'm at. Very stupid with the coke thing. I don't even like it... but I felt like I needed SOMETHING to get through these work days, even though I don't. So now I have a stuffed nose and I'm hooked on nasal spray, and probably will be for a few days.

I'm supposed to be preparing a big presentation that I'll be making in Florida a week from Monday, but instead I am white knuckling it, and still using something despite it not being my DOC. Sigh. Why can't I be sober? Why can't I just stick to weed??

 

[Rio Fantastic]

^Thank you Lady for the kind words, but if I'm honest – and if I'm not what's the point of all this – I am really struggling today, white knuckling it for sure. While I am opiate-free, kratom included (will be one week tomorrow), I am not very sober.

I've sniffed a little cocaine this week as it fell into my lap and I didn't have the self control to say NO THANKS. And I've used alcohol at night until I get stoned, and then all cravings basically subside for the night... until I wake up at 2:30 AM.

2:34 to be exact.

I fall asleep with my son at around 10 or 10:30, and I wake up at 2:34 and take half an Ambien. Last night's wake-up was a win as I did not chase with with booze.

I learned one of my good friends today scored a whole bunch of Blues from the dealer I put him in touch with. No pun intended, but that's a tough pill to swallow. Not so much due to my own cravings for the pills – which are VERY high atm, but because he is today like I was 6 years ago, nibbling on a blue... a quarter here and there. So I am scared he will succumb like so many others. He is a well-respected medical professional, owns his own practice. I'd hate to see him lose it all, and I'd feel horrible if he did and responsible, although he'll do what he wants (he can prescribe for god's sake!)

Anyway, that's where I'm at. Very stupid with the coke thing. I don't even like it... but I felt like I needed SOMETHING to get through these work days, even though I don't. So now I have a stuffed nose and I'm hooked on nasal spray, and probably will be for a few days.

I'm supposed to be preparing a big presentation that I'll be making in Florida a week from Monday, but instead I am white knuckling it, and still using something despite it not being my DOC. Sigh. Why can't I be sober? Why can't I just stick to weed??

Don't beat yourself up. You're a poly-drug addict. You've come off of all opiates. That's still a huge achievement. Don't turn a small thing - your use of downers to sleep and a one-off on coke - turn into a huge thing by letting guilt consume you and then throwing the towel in and going backwards. I'm on 4mg of subutex and haven't spent longer than a fortnight off of some kind of opiate for going on 2 1/2 years now, so if I were in your position I'd be really proud of myself. What are you taking at the moment?