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  • BDD Moderators: Keif’ Richards | negrogesic

Kratom, which one should I buy?

Not all people find relief with kratom.
@FutureReference I'm assuming you had a pretty high tolerance when you switched to kratom for the pain? Were you on opioids before for the chronic pain?

Yeah brother I wake up most days contemplating suicide still. I don't want to shun Kratom in entirety but I tried every strain available and aside from some uplifting mood effects (I think from a Red Leaf Maeng Da?) I got no relief whatsoever. Surprisingly after about 4 months I did have pretty moderate withdrawals. Not bad like Suboxone but on par with Oxy for sure.

I am sorry for not being specific though. I never did try Kratom with no opioid tolerance and it was during an interim phase of switching from the VA to my current Pain doctor so I went from 160mg Oxycontin to about 15G of Kratom daily. Again, truly sorry here as I feel I might have diminished potential positives here. With zero tolerance it may have great pain-relieving effects, but for me it truly did nothing. The only thing I can recall is during this period I was given Norcos until I was situated and 20MG of that still did relieve pain even if ever so slightly so I can only speak from experience when I say Kratom is probably about on the level of Codeine for pain. The uplifting strains have worked though so I don't want everybody to think it is worthless. I just feel the withdrawals aren't worth the minimal help for pain
 
Thanks for the comments, a lot of knowledge

After reading them, I need to confess, I believe I am not going to buy it anymore. i have already had so many addictions, I don't wanna to add one more to my life.

Reading the comments, I have had the impression that it is not worth it, I will not gain sufficient benefits from it and the risk of addiction is high, specially for those who have already a predisposition to vices, like I have.

Still thinking. If I decide to buy it, how should I start? 1 gram, for a first dose? I have never taken an opioid

In the case of higher doses, is it better to take like 5 gram (for example) at once or can I take 1 gram, after a while, another gram, and so on (in order to wait to see the effects)? will the effects be very different depending on the way I am ingesting it (considering the quantity ingested at the same time)?

Kratom is an opioid and must be treated as such. Withdrawals will creep up for sure. You say you have no opioid tolerance; are you seeking euphoria or medical benefits? If it is for anxiety I have had success but not for pain. But I have a very high opioid tolerance and this may have been a huge factor. I am sorry for not speaking my entire truth and just shunning Kratom.

If it is for recreational use, I say avoid it altogether. With no tolerance, a 1G dose is more than enough. Always start low
 
If you do end up getting it start at 1 gram just to be sure your body tolerates it at all. After that try 3 grams and work your way up gram by gram from there. I'd suggest only dosing once a day at night to keep tolerance low.

It's also worth mentioning that in a small minority of people kratom can cause acute liver damage, id suggest you research those symptoms and be on the look out for them.
 
I believe I am not going to buy it anymore. i have already had so many addictions, I don't wanna to add one more to my life.

Reading the comments, I have had the impression that it is not worth it, I will not gain sufficient benefits from it and the risk of addiction is high, specially for those who have already a predisposition to vices, like I have.

I have never taken an opioid

You have never taken an opioid - you are partial to addiction.

Your impulse to NOT buy any looks like an impulse that would be really cool to follow, brother - go with that gut instinct
 
You have never taken an opioid - you are partial to addiction.

Your impulse to NOT buy any looks like an impulse that would be really cool to follow, brother - go with that gut instinct

This is probably a good advice.

If you should take it: it's really worth it staying in the low-dose range (probably both physically and economically). Due to a lack of scales and (stupidly) lack of research, I started with (and continued to take for quite a while afterwards) unnecessarily high doses for someone that had never taken Kratom.
Now, I'm taking a 1.9g single dose and am satisfied with the effects (and doing nightly/per day less than I used to take in a single dose).
 
I was shot in the military and had my spine crushed.
shrapnel and blunt force from rpg (mid spinal is a little fucked) and after 26 years of opies this leaf proved a game changer for me in low doses. didn't have to take as many benzos either. maybe i was a prime candidate as it does nada for some. worked outta home for the better part of 15 years i think (tech related) and after SO retired kratom facilitated socialization (to a point), pain reduction and maybe most of all; mood boost. surely there were a lot of other mechanisms in action but wasnt ready to dig that deep as mind is full enough, ATM.
also help another co-worker aged 62 (damaged vet) to stand for 6-7 hours without too much trouble with no other substances. I introduced him a few months back and he swears by it... i know it is not placebo.
Imma have to hook him w/dude cause i think im out of it for a min....
have to search for non-opioid pain meds to request at SOs next neurology appointment. opi makes her sick at any dose and it will keep me from temptation as i only prefer opi for pain sans kratom.
maybe i will learn something....
 
shrapnel and blunt force from rpg (mid spinal is a little fucked) and after 26 years of opies this leaf proved a game changer for me in low doses. didn't have to take as many benzos either. maybe i was a prime candidate as it does nada for some. worked outta home for the better part of 15 years i think (tech related) and after SO retired kratom facilitated socialization (to a point), pain reduction and maybe most of all; mood boost. surely there were a lot of other mechanisms in action but wasnt ready to dig that deep as mind is full enough, ATM.
also help another co-worker aged 62 (damaged vet) to stand for 6-7 hours without too much trouble with no other substances. I introduced him a few months back and he swears by it... i know it is not placebo.
Imma have to hook him w/dude cause i think im out of it for a min....
have to search for non-opioid pain meds to request at SOs next neurology appointment. opi makes her sick at any dose and it will keep me from temptation as i only prefer opi for pain sans kratom.
maybe i will learn something....

Wow man. Salute for your service and I thank God you made it out. The PTSD sometimes outweighs even the pain so that is amazing your benzo dosage is lessened due to Kratom. Which strain helped you out like this? The US had gotten pretty insane and I am on only 40mg of Oxy daily and since I take it to manage it 24hr it does nearly nothing. I know i metabolize oddly but your story gives me hope. If you could let me know which strain was so helpful with pain I'm dying to know! I did have mood boosting effects but never any relief from the chronic pain. Did you take this alongside other opioids or did it help you solo?
 
Did you take this alongside other opioids or did it help you solo?
solo... found it did not compliment each other in my system and actually the opposite; no "euphoria" from the opi and no mood boost from the kratom. so i just went with the krat.
it was super green maeng da and i started @ .5g. it worked and got up to 1-2g doses (every 4 hrs as u said) after almost two years of use. always got what i expected.
the ONLY reason i am not on it now is because the dea/fda are gonna kill it at the soursce if they have it their way and i dont wanna be left holding an empty bag so to speak. looking for a natural alternative but am skeptical....
will pm you
disclaimer:
may not have the same effects/affects on you, brother.
and thanks for your service to the US as i was a hiree. ;)
i did it all for the nookie
lol
 
Thanks for the comments, a lot of knowledge

After reading them, I need to confess, I believe I am not going to buy it anymore. i have already had so many addictions, I don't wanna to add one more to my life.

Reading the comments, I have had the impression that it is not worth it, I will not gain sufficient benefits from it and the risk of addiction is high, specially for those who have already a predisposition to vices, like I have.

Still thinking. If I decide to buy it, how should I start? 1 gram, for a first dose? I have never taken an opioid

In the case of higher doses, is it better to take like 5 gram (for example) at once or can I take 1 gram, after a while, another gram, and so on (in order to wait to see the effects)? will the effects be very different depending on the way I am ingesting it (considering the quantity ingested at the same time)?

If you desist now, you will probably be in a position later to thank yourself when it comes time to be administered narcotics for pain relief, pre-anaesthesia, life-threatening diarrhoea and the like. Because it is harder to prevent and counteract, mutatis mutandis, tolerance in my estimation is a larger problem than physical habituation from more than one standpoint, and even when one gets 100 per cent off narcotics, the tolerance the second time around will build up more rapidly, which appears to be a combination of immune, endocrine, metabolic and perhaps CNS factors. It also seems to make tachyphylaxis, which results in a lightning-speed tolerance buildup, more likely especially with synthetics and who knows where kratom alkaloids fit into that.
 
This is probably a good advice.

If you should take it: it's really worth it staying in the low-dose range (probably both physically and economically). Due to a lack of scales and (stupidly) lack of research, I started with (and continued to take for quite a while afterwards) unnecessarily high doses for someone that had never taken Kratom.
Now, I'm taking a 1.9g single dose and am satisfied with the effects (and doing nightly/per day less than I used to take in a single dose).

If in the US stupeheads goad politicians to keep banning Kratom at the state and local level and try to get it in the Controlled Substances Act 1970, it will shut down most the research to be done about it just like it has done with everything else -- the first large psilocybin experiments have apparently been done very recently and there are still all sorts of hoops for people to jump through to do them, there was also 80 years of practically no real research on cannabis.

Corrupt Bolshevik quisling sadistic mafioso pig-fucking arseholes want to ban any self-help tools so that they get more five and six-figure bills and insurance reimbursements for people in rehabilitation, and people in the US want to impose their will on everyone else, with one politician having the nerve to say that other countries do not know as well how to deal with addicts -- the same establishment that poisons its own citizens with fentanils and methanol and shit all through history and where the main ideas for rehabilitation are non-scientific and harmful in the long run if not the short run . . . when something happens like a state banning tianeptine when it has never been present in the US at the suggestion of those corrupt arseholes one knows how bad things are . . .
 
I have officially given up, I am not going to buy it anymore, there is no meaning to do so, i have been convinced by this thread.
 
well, let's say, recreationally, is it nice? How is the trip? If it is nothing special, I will no try at all, if it is something that should be checked at least once I can buy to have an experience, it is very cheap, but would the trip be worth it? in the long run, I have already realized it's not worth it
 
well, let's say, recreationally, is it nice? How is the trip? If it is nothing special, I will no try at all, if it is something that should be checked at least once I can buy to have an experience, it is very cheap, but would the trip be worth it? in the long run, I have already realized it's not worth it

Before I go into an indpeth kratom description, have you ever taken an opioid before? Not recreationally because you said you havent tried them, but have you ever taken codeine/hydrocodone/any pain killer that has been prescribed to you for pain?
 
Before I go into an indpeth kratom description, have you ever taken an opioid before? Not recreationally because you said you havent tried them, but have you ever taken codeine/hydrocodone/any pain killer that has been prescribed to you for pain?

never

I have taken other drugs, psychedelics, cocaine, crack. Not even a painkiller (only benzos)
 
never

I have taken other drugs, psychedelics, cocaine, crack. Not even a painkiller (only benzos)

Ah ok. Well ill try my best then.

Kratom has a bitter gritty taste, very earthy like dirt. The effects of a small dose (1-3g) will consist of a boost in mood (slightly euphoric but not overwhelming like amphetamines or cocaine). Kratom can offer the ability to ease anxiety and allow anxious people to want to engage in conversation with others. A nice warm sensation is is accompanied with the mental euphoria and relaxation, and may cause some itchiness that is common with most drugs that act as opioid agonists. Larger doses (5-10g) will tend to exhibit sedative effects as opposed to the coffee-esque stimulation of small doses. Feeling heavy and sedated is common, especially among red/brown strains. The analgesic effects become more pronounced with higher doses although some strains provide great pain relief at low doses while still providing energy. You may find yourself a little nauseated after consuming kratom due to the amount of plant matter you will ingest. It acts a diuretic as well so you may pee quite a bit more than usual. High doses also increase the risk of "the wobbles". I have not experienced the wobbles from kratom but from what I read and heard from others it seems similar to the spins from being too drunk, accompanied with uncontrolled movements of the eyes. It is not dangerous, but this can lead to a dysphoric feeling. Similarly, energetic strains such as whites/greens (although I find green strains to be a middle ground between red and white) may cause anxiety and reds/brown's tend to increase the risk of nausea.

Overall I love it. I'm an advocate for it though, so there is some bias. If you have addictive tendencies you may not want to tread this late because you might be open to wanting to try stronger drugs that can lead to an opioid addiction.
The WDs from kratom are not all that bad in comparison to true opioids but can still be uncomfortable. I view the WDs as a mix between nicotine and coffee and low dose opioid WD combined.

And last but not least I'll provide a strain guide that goes from the most sedating to the most energetic:

Brown/Chocolate->Red->Gold->Yellow->Green->White

There are many different effects depending on what kind you get as well (Maeng Da, Bali, Super Elephant, ect.). But if you choose to try it then I will do my best to describe them for you. But effects can vary between different vendors even if the strain is the same. This is usually due to the quality of the product though.

Hope this helps!

Mr. Deeds
 
If this is the first time one has taken a narcotic there is no way to be certain about the effect, especially in the absence of physical pain and/or distress - given that the effects of narcotics by themselves, even the strong ones like nicomorphine, dextromoramide, morphine, smack, dipipanone and so forth, are actually more subtle and centred on the physical body than a lot people expect, and the side effects of nausea, the potential for vomiting and so forth are still there. If one has a sufficiently sanguine and calm, i.e. "morphine-y" personality and takes codeine or the like, they may feel next to nothing if there is no distress present for it to solve, and all will happen is the beginning of jacking up tolerance. Alternatively, the case of such a person presents no legitimate medical excuse for not being given strong narcotics when they are in pain for a prolonged period as the subjective change that takes place on administration is most likely not going to be stark and noticeable enough to set up an intractable psychological habituation, much less the phobia about withdrawal which turns the purely metabolic condition of physical habituation into actual addiction. Tolerance is an unrelated matter which is usually basis for real fear depending on the economic/supply situation -- it even happens with antacids and ibuprofen . . .

This is why most even heading towards more complete involvement from any remotely recreational and early situational use of narcotics strictly by themselves is actually very uncommon and why iatrogenic addiction (as opposed to physical habituation) truly only happens, caeteris paribus, at low per myriad or single digits per 100 000 levels . . . most people who get themselves in trouble with narcotics find it as the most persistent of several drug habits or the second most after benzodiazepines after extended intensified or compulsive poly-drug use. Narcotics may not even do everything they have to therapeutically, hence the need for adjuncts, potentiators, and atypical analgesics In a lot of cases. Even after a root canal treatment or extraction, the narcotic needs something like naproxen with it to stop the swelling, and the right antihistamine makes it work 10 times better.

And there are people for whom, because of personality structure, they will have an atypical reaction to them like nothing but dysphoria, complete dissociation, or something like that. For example, there are many people who say that catabolic steroids like methylprednisolone and dexamethasone make them cranky, but for me, dexamethasone and betamethasone feel even better than Bolivian Marching Powder and last a good long time and mix just as well with narcotics. They are also self-limiting because they can be taken only so often. But a lot of the distress of the gout cranking up again is mitigated by the fact that it will take essentially a speedball of hydromorphone, hydromorphinol, or nicomorphine and dexamethasone to quell it, in the main line to begin with and then a slow sublingual taper over nine days. I did not press for details, but another catabolic steroid fancier once told me that when he sees a field of sisal (from which Dr Percy Lavon Julian Sr, the famous African American chemist, discovered cortisone can be extracted) that it makes his butt itch.
 
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For example, there are many people who say that catabolic steroids like methylprednisolone and dexamethasone make them cranky, but for me, dexamethasone and betamethasone feel even better than Bolivian Marching Powder and last a good long time and mix just as well with narcotics.

Nothing quite like the mania induced by methylprednisolone, though I wouldn't exactly call it enjoyable. Sort of reminds me high dose pregabalin mania. Anyone familiar with the mechanism via which glucocorticoids produce psychiatric disturbances?

There's the amusing case of Jane Pauley (an NBC Today Show correspondent) who after taking some corticosteroids for her urticaria, went inpatient psychiatric patient bonkers (the corticosteroids having precipitated full blown bipolar disorder type I that did not reverse upon discontinuation).
 
I'm not trying to be a dick but your fence riding on whether or not to buy kratom convinces me that you will be buying it.

The truth is no one can describe how shitty opiate addiction is and you can't know until you experience it. It all sounds so manageable on paper but it's much different in stereo.

In this respect it seems to be worth the risk for some instant gratification. If you have any sort of mental issues you will almost certainly fall into the trap.
 
Thanks for the comments, a lot of knowledge

After reading them, I need to confess, I believe I am not going to buy it anymore. i have already had so many addictions, I don't wanna to add one more to my life.

Reading the comments, I have had the impression that it is not worth it, I will not gain sufficient benefits from it and the risk of addiction is high, specially for those who have already a predisposition to vices, like I have.

Still thinking. If I decide to buy it, how should I start? 1 gram, for a first dose? I have never taken an opioid

In the case of higher doses, is it better to take like 5 gram (for example) at once or can I take 1 gram, after a while, another gram, and so on (in order to wait to see the effects)? will the effects be very different depending on the way I am ingesting it (considering the quantity ingested at the same time)?
Wise choice.

As everybody has said - poor drug for recreation/and/or pain, with high possibility for negative Opioid related side effects/withdrawal.
 
One thing Kratom extract did was temporarily restore the ability of a combination of clonidine, paracetamol with diphenhydramine, and hydroxyzine to allow me to get to sleep on one occasion.

If one can still get bromphenamine (Dimetapp) and/or dexbromphenamine (Drixoral) where they are, it is a somewhat less anticholinergic antihistamine with much of diphenhydramine's sedative effect, just about as good overall as doxylamine and almost as much so a phenyltoloxamine. It is also quite a good potentiator for dihydrocodeine and hydrocodone in particular . . .
 
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