Opioids Kratom Megathread V.6

[apocalypse_when]

Reading this thread and seeing the difficulty that some if you guys are having coming off kratom (which is obviously gonna be the case since it stimulates the bodies opiate receptor regardless of whether or not it can be classified as a true opiate or opioid) just makes me all the more frustrated when I read the comments left on YouTube videos about kratom. People get so mega defensive (and sometimes downright abusive) when they try to advertise it as a totally harmless and 100% non addictive "cure" for opioid addiction and you state to them that this isn't the case...

Of course its waaayyyyy less damaging than an active addiction to heroin or oxycontin, but to suggest that it's a completely safe and totally non addictive "cure" is misleading and just downright false.

 

[Sertürner]

^ Very true apocalypse! Even though it is helping so many people in a plethora of different ways, kratom is still an opiate agonist and so opioid receptors will still undergo receptor desensitization increasing tolerance, which will lead to a physical dependence, and then BAM! your opioid dependent!

Dont get me wrong, I love kratom and fully support it's legal use. But this crap on YouTube and peoples blogs and stuff that claim is entirely risk-free and/or a natural "opiate free" painkiller (technically yes its opiate free, but it's still an opioid...many all in one plant actually) only fuel the fire and push it closer to scheduling.

Only appropriate and accurate information on how to use it safely while providing the public with both its beneficial uses AND potential side-effects in the long and short term will ultimately give this plant a real chance at staying legal.

 

[DoctorMolecule]

Reading this thread and seeing the difficulty that some if you guys are having coming off kratom (which is obviously gonna be the case since it stimulates the bodies opiate receptor regardless of whether or not it can be classified as a true opiate or opioid) just makes me all the more frustrated when I read the comments left on YouTube videos about kratom. People get so mega defensive (and sometimes downright abusive) when they try to advertise it as a totally harmless and 100% non addictive "cure" for opioid addiction and you state to them that this isn't the case...

Of course its waaayyyyy less damaging than an active addiction to heroin or oxycontin, but to suggest that it's a completely safe and totally non addictive "cure" is misleading and just downright false.

Yep, you hit the nail on the head. I?ve been addicted to both heroin and kratom and I can tell you being addicted to kratom is much easier on the body.
I can?t stand those comments on YouTube either. Someone told me it?s all just in my head, but how does psychological dependency account for the depression, insomnia, runny nose and eyes, malaise, restless body, twitching, and anxiety? When I run out of pot sure I?m more grouchy but I?m not having a runny nose and runny ass hole

 

[apocalypse_when]

^ Very true apocalypse! Even though it is helping so many people in a plethora of different ways, kratom is still an opiate agonist and so opioid receptors will still undergo receptor desensitization increasing tolerance, which will lead to a physical dependence, and then BAM! your opioid dependent!

Dont get me wrong, I love kratom and fully support it's legal use. But this crap on YouTube and peoples blogs and stuff that claim is entirely risk-free and/or a natural "opiate free" painkiller (technically yes its opiate free, but it's still an opioid...many all in one plant actually) only fuel the fire and push it closer to scheduling.

Only appropriate and accurate information on how to use it safely while providing the public with both its beneficial uses AND potential side-effects in the long and short term will ultimately give this plant a real chance at staying legal.

Yep, you hit the nail on the head. I?ve been addicted to both heroin and kratom and I can tell you being addicted to kratom is much easier on the body.
I can?t stand those comments on YouTube either. Someone told me it?s all just in my head, but how does psychological dependency account for the depression, insomnia, runny nose and eyes, malaise, restless body, twitching, and anxiety? When I run out of pot sure I?m more grouchy but I?m not having a runny nose and runny ass hole

Yeah, sometimes when it's a video about how to cope with opiate withdrawls, some bright spark in the comments will say something like "one word....kratom. It kills withdrawl symptoms dead and cures opiate addiction" Then when you point out that methadone and suboxone kill withdrawls dead too, but wait and see what happens when you take any of those, including kratom to "ease" withdrawls and then stop it, they get super pissed. You still go through the withdrawls, they're just postponed. But for some reason they can't accept that. They'll say things like "but kratom is natural, or it's a type of coffee plant"... all of which are true, but it's missing the point.

 

[DoctorMolecule]

Yeah, sometimes when it's a video about how to cope with opiate withdrawls, some bright spark in the comments will say something like "one word....kratom. It kills withdrawl symptoms dead and cures opiate addiction" Then when you point out that methadone and suboxone kill withdrawls dead too, but wait and see what happens when you take any of those, including kratom to "ease" withdrawls and then stop it, they get super pissed. You still go through the withdrawls, they're just postponed. But for some reason they can't accept that. They'll say things like "but kratom is natural, or it's a type of coffee plant"... all of which are true, but it's missing the point.

Don?t get me wrong, I think kratom was a godsend, it helped me break my needle IV drug fixation to heroin.
The problem is I think tolerance to kratom builds quite rapidly. When I started dosing again last August I started out taking 5-8 grams daily (which is the heavy end of dosing... I know, but it?s the minimum dose where I can feel it). Fast forward to November and I?m dosing 45-50grams a day

 

[apocalypse_when]

Don?t get me wrong, I think kratom was a godsend, it helped me break my needle IV drug fixation to heroin.
The problem is I think tolerance to kratom builds quite rapidly. When I started dosing again last August I started out taking 5-8 grams daily (which is the heavy end of dosing... I know, but it?s the minimum dose where I can feel it). Fast forward to November and I?m dosing 45-50grams a day

Oh yeah definately, its a great tool to get a person away from a destructive IV heroin habit, or even an equally destructive oral pilll habit.

I was just meaning that people need to be realistic about what kratom is and what it does.

What bothers me is those people who tout it as a miracle cure for opiate addiction that's as free fŕom dependence issues and as "tame" as a cup of coffee.

I think you probably know the types of people I'm referring to and I think we're on the same page in what were saying.

Best if luck to you in getting off completely, if that's ypur goal and congrats in breaking the heroin cycle.. That's a great accomplishment of which you should be very proud..

All the best brother...

 

[Rupert D]

I was on kratom for about six years with very few breaks but always switching between strains after a couple of days. I went on it to try beat opiate addiction and ultimately it didn't work as I was then using opiates with kratom after a while. At peak, I was easy doing 10 grams a day.

I loved kratom; for me it was better than my 'weed puritan' days. It just tastes like shit whereas weed has the aromatic advantage for a lifestyle drug. But kratom, when you're in the honeymoon period, is bliss. Although I did get to a point where my swallowing method was bob on and I could take grams of the stuff without tasting anything but juice.

Anyway, I have been as high on some kratom supplies as any other prescribed opiate including morphine sulphate (and possibly even black tar opium). But over all I wouldn't say continual use is like this. Probably best to take long breaks to ensure better highs. But if you are an addict, this won't be possible and like me you'll end up taking what becomes just another arse ache.

I do vouch for kratom, though; the same as I used to vouch for weed back in the day.

 

[apocalypse_when]

my swallowing method was bob on

Sorry bro, but couldn't help laugh at the unfortunate choice of words there

Seriously though, I'm interested in hearing people's experience a with Kratom.. especially as I'm tapering off my fentanyl patch at present..

I just have my doubts as to what kratom could actually do in comparison to being on a substantial fentanyl dependence. It may be a useful tool when tapering off the very end though...

 

[Transcendence]

People who claim that kratom is not an opioid or that withdrawal is equivalent to coffee withdrawal are effectively doing more to hasten its ban than the prohibitionists. Addiction is somewhat self-limiting compared to morphine or synthetic/semi-synthetic opioids, as there's only so much of the crap you can swallow/drink and it causes more nausea at high doses than any other opioid I've tried. I feel ridiculous taking 10g a day (twenty 000 size capsules). But I know people who 60 grams or even more (?!) daily. The withdrawal is full-on classical opiate withdrawal, usually with more mild physical symptoms and perhaps more pronounced psychological ones. People who don't know better (even those that don't) are certainly going to become trapped if they treat it otherwise.

In my opinion the physical withdrawal effects (at least below 20g daily) are only a shadow of something like poppy tea. I always feel completely back to normal by the 5th day, which is also faster than most opioids. Since the physical effects are limited, it's more than possible to soldier through it while still working, particularly with the aid of loperamide and perhaps a stimulant if available. Using stem and leaf tea or even just a taper also makes most of it avoidable. I don't see it really "ruining" anybody's life situation for this reason unless they are encouraged to jump to harder opioids.

Still, the mental component of kratom withdrawal can be terrible and maybe even worse than morphine for me. Someone who doesn't realize what's happening could especially have a very rough time of it. Thankfully I don't notice much in the way of PAWS, but there's no reason why it couldn't trigger PAWS.

As an aside, does anyone feel that kratom doses remain effective long after near-total tolerance to other opioids would set in? I used to take the ~150-200mg oxycodone equivalent dose of poppy tea every day for years just to maintain. After a short break of 10 days or so I can actually nod on normal red bali kratom. Even after several months of medium-high daily kratom doses, I can still get mildly high if I take 10g at once (~1.5x my typical dose). On the other hand, taking ~1.5x of my morphine dose would after such a period would typically not be as efficacious.

 

[MDPV_Psychosis]

Yea, I find kratom to remain effective indefinitely, at least so far. I've been able to keep my doses at the same level for a long time without any desire to up the dose.

I realize that my experience is not universal. There are plenty of people out there with stories of constant dosage increases and rapidly developing tolerances.




You ever notice on other kratom forums how people recommend rotating strains in order to keep tolerance down. Seriously? Continuing to take something is not the way to prevent tolerance.

 

[DoctorMolecule]

Oh yeah definately, its a great tool to get a person away from a destructive IV heroin habit, or even an equally destructive oral pilll habit.

I was just meaning that people need to be realistic about what kratom is and what it does.

What bothers me is those people who tout it as a miracle cure for opiate addiction that's as free fŕom dependence issues and as "tame" as a cup of coffee.

I think you probably know the types of people I'm referring to and I think we're on the same page in what were saying.

Best if luck to you in getting off completely, if that's ypur goal and congrats in breaking the heroin cycle.. That's a great accomplishment of which you should be very proud..

All the best brother...

Thanks, I haven?t shot dope in almost 20 months. I got back into Kratom again cause honestly I missed the opiate esq high

 

[DoctorMolecule]

Seriously though, I'm interested in hearing people's experience a with Kratom.. especially as I'm tapering off my fentanyl patch at present..

I just have my doubts as to what kratom could actually do in comparison to being on a substantial fentanyl dependence. It may be a useful tool when tapering off the very end though...

Oh I still felt withdrawal symptoms when I made the leap from heroin/hydromorph to kratom. It made it possible to meet the bare minimum of life?s responsibilities. I still couldn?t sleep for the first week but I didn?t have the typical hot/cold sweats and vomit diarrhea thing. Kratom took the really sharp edges off basically. But I was still anxious insomniac and depressed

 

[J Street]

Kratom Effects

I've been using kratom for about three years now. For about a year, I dabbled using one a month or every few months. Then, I was using it daily for about 2 months and had to overcome addiction. I stopped using for a few months. For about a year, I've been using it roughly twice a month. At first, I continued to have great effects with it.

A few months ago, something happened. I stopped feeling high on kratom. I no longer got that wonderful feeling of being in a different mindset where I felt something akin to Euphoria and colors got brighter and it was harder to hold a down to Earth conversation with others. I thought maybe the kratom expired 8(. I bought new kratom from another reputable source with good reviews. Still the kratom did little for me except numb and relax. No energy. No euphoria. No change of state of mind. Just numbing.

Does anyone know what is going on here? I feel like I should be getting great highs since I don't use it very often. Please advise.

 

[zagor11]

I was using it for a week to wean off oxycodone then I run out. My new order arrived today and I took one dose which had no effect at all. IDK why.

 

[Tieeurrrop]

Is kratom strain switching for tolerance just broscience/a myth?

I have been experiencing tolerance issues with my favorite red strains lately. Even after a 1 month break it barely was reduced when I took it again.

I am out for now and wanted to re-up and was wondering if I should try some other strains or if that is just bullshit all the talk of switching strains 'eliminated my tolerance issues' I read online.

The issue for me is I am very sensitive to stimulating strains (in that they give bad anxiety and discomfort) and it took a long time to find a couple of red strains I can get on with so I wonder if it is worth even bothering with other strains since if they turn out too stimmy it will just be a waste.

I figure the only reason that people might say switching works for them is that it might be the other strains had more stimulant type actives which weren't as susceptible to tolerance as the opioid ones, and since I only like the sedative effect, and thus opioid effects, which cause tolerance it would probably be a waste of kratom and time to try other ones out? Ie the ones I like are going to be most susceptible to tolerance since they have more opioid alkaloids.

Opioid agonism will cause tolerance no matter the strain won't it and the other actives I hate anyway since they give me a tight knot in my chest and end up having to throw it out wasting money and being left with less kratom.

 

[j133760]

I suppose theoretically its possible to OD from Kratom. You can "OD" on just about anything, too much water can kill you. But with recreational drug use, I imagine Kratom alone wouldn't be possible. Your body would likely purge it and have you throwing up for an hour. Now if you were already on a bunch of other sedatives/downers that were depressing your breathing, then its possible a high Kratom dose can push you over the edge.

The drug itself is the trash-tier of "legal highs." Very dirty high that comes with an abundance of unwanted side effects. Even if you manage to stomach it and not throw up a large dose; the high would be very weak. Of course this is just me shooting blanks, Ive never actually tried it but my friends/acquaintances all had identical experiences. Personally I dont see much value in it. For opiate withdrawals there are more effective and potent legal fixes like poppy seed tea. But I guess if your trying to legitimately get off opiates, and not just stave withdrawals, Kratom could be helpful since it wont feed the addiction as its not an opiate.

Anyone know if Kratom is physically addicting? Be curious to know the nature of Kratom withdrawal, assuming it has one.

 

[PoisonDurban]

I have been experiencing tolerance issues with my favorite red strains lately. Even after a 1 month break it barely was reduced when I took it again.

I am out for now and wanted to re-up and was wondering if I should try some other strains or if that is just bullshit all the talk of switching strains 'eliminated my tolerance issues' I read online.


The issue for me is I am very sensitive to stimulating strains (in that they give bad anxiety and discomfort) and it took a long time to find a couple of red strains I can get on with so I wonder if it is worth even bothering with other strains since if they turn out too stimmy it will just be a waste.

I figure the only reason that people might say switching works for them is that it might be the other strains had more stimulant type actives which weren't as susceptible to tolerance as the opioid ones, and since I only like the sedative effect, and thus opioid effects, which cause tolerance it would probably be a waste of kratom and time to try other ones out? Ie the ones I like are going to be most susceptible to tolerance since they have more opioid alkaloids.

Opioid agonism will cause tolerance no matter the strain won't it and the other actives I hate anyway since they give me a tight knot in my chest and end up having to throw it out wasting money and being left with less kratom.

The colors aren't real and it's a marketing scheme. The poor farmers aren't seperating each leaf and going through the whole process making sure they aren't mixed. They also have their own vendor they sell to, and then that guy sells it to another vendor, and somewhere down the line an American vendor gets it. I am sure there is higher quality kratom with higher active %'s, but the stimulating/sedating strains depends on how much you dosed, how long ago you dosed, and if you've eaten, what mood you're in, etc etc. plays much more of a role than red/white/green. In your case I believe tolerance is playing a role .

 

[Mycophile]

I suppose theoretically its possible to OD from Kratom. You can "OD" on just about anything, too much water can kill you. But with recreational drug use, I imagine Kratom alone wouldn't be possible. Your body would likely purge it and have you throwing up for an hour. Now if you were already on a bunch of other sedatives/downers that were depressing your breathing, then its possible a high Kratom dose can push you over the edge.

The drug itself is the trash-tier of "legal highs." Very dirty high that comes with an abundance of unwanted side effects. Even if you manage to stomach it and not throw up a large dose; the high would be very weak. Of course this is just me shooting blanks, Ive never actually tried it but my friends/acquaintances all had identical experiences. Personally I dont see much value in it. For opiate withdrawals there are more effective and potent legal fixes like poppy seed tea. But I guess if your trying to legitimately get off opiates, and not just stave withdrawals, Kratom could be helpful since it wont feed the addiction as its not an opiate.

Anyone know if Kratom is physically addicting? Be curious to know the nature of Kratom withdrawal, assuming it has one.

Dude, I'm actually finding your post VERY annoying because you ADMIT to not knowing anything about Kratom and yet you assume all sorts of things that are incorrect.

First off, I actually believe it is impossible to OD on Kratom and if anyone could I would have.

Studies have been done, I've read a few, and the amount you'd have to take to OD would have you throwing up long before you could.

If you mix it with other things the other things could kill you, and that's happened a few times, but it's always the other things, which is why Kratom gets a bad rap and it's never killed anyone by itself to my knowledge.

You're saying it's a "dirty high" is IMO PURE BULLSHIT.

Kratom is my favorite drug of all time and the high is NOT weak.

It is SERIOUSLY euphoric and some posters on here have said they find it more euphoric than prescription opioids.

It is SUPER clean, makes you feel energetic, optimistic, relaxed, and you can do anything on it while not being negatively effected really.

I've played sports on it and it improved performance, worked on it, studied on it, etc.

It's SO much better than real opiates and safer.

It is also good for hangovers, depression, anxiety and pain.

That being said, yes, it is physically addicting but you need to really over do it and it needs to be respected.

For me, I will be very tired and depressed for about 3 days and get a runny nose and need to sleep a lot.

Another thing is that Kratom differs depending on your source and headshop Kratom for example SUCKS and your friends may have tried bad stuff, or maybe not, but everyone reacts to substances differently.

Even if your friends had those experiences, you didn't, and even IF you DID, that's still just your experience, which you admitted you didn't even have.

LOTS of people LOVE Kratom and it is also good medicinally.

Don't pretend you know about something if you don't because uneducated opinions are not worth much.

 

[zephyr]

Eh, ill see if potatoman can chime in here, he mentioned some case of a death with copious kratom in the system but also other drugs so instant od or long term build up- still an od of sorts.

 

[Mycophile]

Eh, ill see if potatoman can chime in here, he mentioned some case of a death with copious kratom in the system but also other drugs so instant od or long term build up- still an od of sorts.

Sounds like the other drugs and not Kratom.