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Kratom Can Easily Hold a Candle to Opiate Highs

Lawrence said:
In term of analgesic effect, do you think kratom is better than Codein in equivalant dose ???
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The main opioid-like alkaloids present in Kratom are 7-Hydroxy-Mitragynine and Mitragynine.

Codeine is approx. 1/10 as potent as Morphine.

7-HydroxyMitragynine is approx. 17 times more potent than Morphine.

7-HydroxyMitragynine is approx. 170 times more potent than Codeine.

Mitragynine is approx. 5.6 times more potent than Codeine

Mitragynine is just over half as potent as Morphine.

Ex.

1mg 7-HydroxyMitragynine = 30mg Mitragynine = 17mg Morphine = 170mg Codeine

The major opioid receptor agonist indole alkaloids found in Kratom are both, in different degrees and on their own, both more potent than Codeine.
 
^ your numbers are from studies that are largely irrelevant and totally wrong to the true potency as seen in other mice studies where assay is actually for analgesia and even moreso via monomer isolates in 'real world' use
 
^ True, but potency is not a good indicator of euphoria or analgesia. Just means you need less or more.
 
When in jail some how some got in, suprised they didnt try to smuggle heroin insted, and it was ok but keep in mind I was in jail so anything was welcome(btw it was resin/extract). In general though this isnt a good substitute for opiates but could be used as one I guess. I agree with the above poster who said good for naive but not good for tolerent users.

WooHoo #200 lol.
 
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my drug of choice is HEROIN, but tehre is no good heroin... i would do anything to find somethign reall...
now i am on suboxone... ad im crazing to inject myself with something...
 
i am into heroin.. but i havnt ben able to get my hands on anything good., its so sad...
 
LuxEtVeritas said:
^ your numbers are from studies that are largely irrelevant and totally wrong to the true potency as seen in other mice studies where assay is actually for analgesia and even moreso via monomer isolates in 'real world' use
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Takayama, Hiromitsu. “Chemistry and Pharmacology of Analgesic Indole
Alkaloids from the Rubiaceous Plant, Mitragyna speciosa.” Chemical & Pharmaceutical Bulletin. 52(8) 916—928 (2004).

Link to the text:

http://www.drugs-forum.co.uk/articles/kratom-alkaloids.pdf

This study shows Mitragynine as 26% and 7-H-M as 1071% potency of Morphine. Seems to be the most touted study on the Kratom enthusiast websites.

If there is definitive information regarding the analgesic equivalency between these 3 chemicals, what is the most accurate (or current) accepted strength of M & 7HM?
 
As for the question about codeine...Well codeine has a metabolic ceiling so after 600 mgs you are just wasting it. With 7-hydroxy though there is no known celing. Yes, it is 17 x as potent as morphine, and yes, that refers to the analgesia and not the psychoactivity but as MrBlond noticed this is usually a fair indicator for psyhoactivity or rather its potential.

There have been studies at Chiba on psyhoactivity, and it has registered far results but as I said, there are so many things limiting that potential.

On Mitraginine itself...It is an Indole and worthless as far as opiate like psyhoactivity to most. I have had Mitragynine, Rx pure, in Thailand, and found it absolutely worthless but hey, that is me. Never had 7-hydroxy isolated but am considering extracting soem myself and doing some work with it (meaning experiments).
 
rachamim said:
As for the question about codeine...Well codeine has a metabolic ceiling so after 600 mgs you are just wasting it. With 7-hydroxy though there is no known celing. Yes, it is 17 x as potent as morphine, and yes, that refers to the analgesia and not the psychoactivity but as MrBlond noticed this is usually a fair indicator for psyhoactivity or rather its potential.

There have been studies at Chiba on psyhoactivity, and it has registered far results but as I said, there are so many things limiting that potential.

On Mitraginine itself...It is an Indole and worthless as far as opiate like psyhoactivity to most. I have had Mitragynine, Rx pure, in Thailand, and found it absolutely worthless but hey, that is me. Never had 7-hydroxy isolated but am considering extracting soem myself and doing some work with it (meaning experiments).
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From what I remember, a thread on BL a month or two ago about a Kratom/7HM extract came up, and members were giving each other advice about what dose to take. However, some posters were talking about whole Kratom extract, and some a 7HM 'extract' (pure 7HM dissolved in alcohol). It looked like doses for the whole Kratom extract were being recommended to people talking about the 7HM-only 'extract'.

Depending on where you look, some sources (be they studies, Kratom enthusiast sites, or forums like this one) list 10x , 12x and 17x (so far the 3 that I've seen) for the amount of potency variation between 7HM vs Morphine. A rough guide is better than no guide at all, but this definitely leaves plenty of room for error when you're dealing with milligram increments.
 
^ Yeah, I remember that thread; it got me interested in trying some of the 7HM extract, there were some positive posts on the stuff.
 
^ Nice... what kind of doses did you use? What opioids would you compare it to?
 
just as a follow up i recently took 8 grams again after a few days of 4 grams night, and i pretty much felt nothin, maybe the slight lift from like 2 percs, relaling to mu early days of opiod use as a high school, bit nothin on th level od 4 days ago when i experienced the same high as a 40 mg OC

So apperently the tolerance rises quickly and definetly, will report in a gew weeks when the tolerance goes down
 
ofukibenhearB4 said:
Ive had the 7HM i thought it was badass at the time. definatly clean and strong
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Wow, really? I've heard of the famed ampules of 7HM, something like 1mg/ml in 20ml ethanol solutions. I've never seen them or found a place to purchase them though.


EDIT: sweet, found an erowid archive on 7HM:
http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=62085

Sure doesn't seem to last long. Kratom lasted 5-6 hours when I experimented with it.
 
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rachamim said:
On Mitraginine itself...It is an Indole and worthless as far as opiate like psyhoactivity to most. I have had Mitragynine, Rx pure, in Thailand, and found it absolutely worthless but hey, that is me. Never had 7-hydroxy isolated but am considering extracting soem myself and doing some work with it (meaning experiments).
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This is intriquing.. what effects does plain Mitragynine have? I know many psychedelic compounds are indoles, though the correlation is weak; never have I experienced anything remotely psychedelic with kratom besides some time dilation.
 
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Kratom and OZ

G`day,presently seeing whether some mail might arrive up for me of which K. looking forward to it enough hoping its on is on a par with codeine(love CWE) been a previous JNKY but settling down now , just letting time melt away betwwen doses, hurrp up K
 
suboxone i s fucked, tell `em you`re allergic to food colouring and they will give you subutext.. much better. don`t swallor a s aeasier, so more absolber in mouth, trust me i been on 64mgs a day??
 
TChort: IF you have time, go to Gallery and look at my pics. I grow the plant. There is no such thing as 10X, 20X, 50X or whatever because to make that kind of quantification you need to have a soldi solubility index with which to extract. So, what are they doing?

They soak some whole or powderised leaf in a basic solvent and hope for the best. Once they find a solvent that works, they jus t soak it but they have no way of even remotely knowing how much alakloid has been leeched. the point being, there REALLY is NO guide right now unless you are a liscensed professional getting Rx grade from Chung in Bangkok and I do not even know if they are providing it anymore.

Anyway, at the time all they had was Mitragynine which is an Analgesic Indole and other than Pschonautica it is not much of a "hot item." As Serat once said, more like a weak SSRI and I for one say Amen.

Ideally you need to extract, crystallise, purify, weigh exactly, dissolve, and quantify it in this manner but noone is doing that to my knowledge. It is too much work when the avergae Joe will but anything. All these spurious labels of "Bali," Java," Thai," Super Thai, what have you. It is all a croc.

I am actually at my main house now and am getting bored so I might just try to work with the leaf and post it in the Blog, but cannot promise. My wife is on me to return to Cebu where she is currently so I do not have the time needed but her Xmas break is coming up and then when I have those 3 weeks I will probably do a full work up.
 
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