Pods You gotta start maybe trying to space out those doses a little bit. It sounds like it's getting bad if you don't use it for a few hours WDs start... WD's probably shouldn't start for at least 24 hours, maybe your psyching yourself out. I've noticed there's a shitty feeling if you don't use for a few hours that is more of a hangover. That should go away and you will feel a little better and sober before the WD's start. How long are you going to give this taper thing until you try just going CT. The longer you stay on, the harder its gonna be. You've been such a great help buddy, I just want to see you dive in. You know what you gotta do.
Kratom Addiction/ Need Help After Withdrawals Are Over
- Thread starter Beat It
- Start date
Pods You gotta start maybe trying to space out those doses a little bit. It sounds like it's getting bad if you don't use it for a few hours WDs start... WD's probably shouldn't start for at least 24 hours, maybe your psyching yourself out. I've noticed there's a shitty feeling if you don't use for a few hours that is more of a hangover. That should go away and you will feel a little better and sober before the WD's start. How long are you going to give this taper thing until you try just going CT. The longer you stay on, the harder its gonna be. You've been such a great help buddy, I just want to see you dive in. You know what you gotta do.
nancylynnsmith
Greenlighter
- Joined
- Jul 3, 2012
- Messages
- 37
Hey PNM,
What is it we don't want to face? Are we rationalizing because of some painful or even mildly irritating thing in our lives that we just don't want to look at face on? I have several ways of avoiding unpleasantness - booze, occasional vicodin, booze, kratom, Five Hour Energy, Xanax, crap food, kratom - WHATEVER. Whatever is available and doable. I am so thinking of going to AA when I get back home (I've been on a month vacation in my NC house). Don't be too hard on yourself for tapering. But I can't taper. Tapering to me is just one more way to avoid getting off. I had a doctor about twenty years ago put me on methadone for migraines. What an idiot. I did taper off then. It took me four months. But kratom is so readily available that tapering was just putting it off for me. Anyway, I feel stronger today. I think this thread helps and talking to my husband honestly about how addicted I was has helped. Life is too short to be ruled by anything. I really do want to be healthy, happy and substance-free. Physical activity is going to save me I think. I worked my ass off today, and I think it helped. Take care. N
What is it we don't want to face? Are we rationalizing because of some painful or even mildly irritating thing in our lives that we just don't want to look at face on? I have several ways of avoiding unpleasantness - booze, occasional vicodin, booze, kratom, Five Hour Energy, Xanax, crap food, kratom - WHATEVER. Whatever is available and doable. I am so thinking of going to AA when I get back home (I've been on a month vacation in my NC house). Don't be too hard on yourself for tapering. But I can't taper. Tapering to me is just one more way to avoid getting off. I had a doctor about twenty years ago put me on methadone for migraines. What an idiot. I did taper off then. It took me four months. But kratom is so readily available that tapering was just putting it off for me. Anyway, I feel stronger today. I think this thread helps and talking to my husband honestly about how addicted I was has helped. Life is too short to be ruled by anything. I really do want to be healthy, happy and substance-free. Physical activity is going to save me I think. I worked my ass off today, and I think it helped. Take care. N
nancylynnsmith
Greenlighter
- Joined
- Jul 3, 2012
- Messages
- 37
Dear PNM,
I did have about 30 Xanax when I went cold turkey. I took one or two a day for awhile. That may have helped. But honestly, I did have insomnia, digestion problems, shaky legs, shivers and the blaaaahs. It isn't easy, but there have been way harder things I've gone through. CT was easier on me than tapering - but I did have that Xanax if you can get any from your doctor.
N
I did have about 30 Xanax when I went cold turkey. I took one or two a day for awhile. That may have helped. But honestly, I did have insomnia, digestion problems, shaky legs, shivers and the blaaaahs. It isn't easy, but there have been way harder things I've gone through. CT was easier on me than tapering - but I did have that Xanax if you can get any from your doctor.
N
podsnomo
Bluelighter
- Joined
- May 23, 2012
- Messages
- 388
Thanks here and gratitude to Beat It (our awesome OP) and Nancy for bringing it to me.
You're both right, and Nancy, you have some good insight.
I'm basically doing with kratom what I did with the pods. When I quit drinking, I felt like I had made such a huge accomplishment (and I had) but I let that be my rationalization for using pods. Of course, I used pods moderately at first, and it slowly crept up on me. The kratom though, now that I've made another accomplishment by getting off the pods (one of the toughest opiates to quit), is more than sneaking up on me. It's steam-rolling me. I'm using more and more. I planned on my two larger doses rather than my 4 smaller ones today, but I took 3 larger doses, about 10g each. I did half n half of my generic kratom and maeng da twice, once at 9 a.m., and again at 2 p.m. Then I took about 11g of bali just an hour or so ago around 10 p.m.
So here's my idea now. Rather than CT, and rather than a soft taper, I'm going to do something in between. A hard taper. Rapid, if you will.
Tomorrow a.m. I'll take some loperamide and a standard recommended dose of dxm. I had success with this reducing my symptoms in the past. Then, I'll see how long I can go without dosing kratom, and will limit myself to 5g. I'll see how tomorrow goes and gauge what I can do from there.
I'll keep you guys posted and I'll appreciate you guys keeping me honest. I'm not talking to anyone IRL about kratom. I don't wanna. And I won't have to if I can get off kratom pretty quickly.
I've been preaching what I ought to have been practicing. And well, I did practice it well during my 6 week pods taper, which was hell. I'm going to hope I can do this quick kratom taper in a week or two.
Nancy, I do have some xanax in addition to my 1.5mg/day script for klonopin. What I did was switch to klonopin after I filled my last fill of xanax before needing to go back to the doc. That way I could say I'm just switching, but have the extra to help while I kick the kratom. But I've been taking my 1.5 mg k-pin a day and doing .5-1mg of xannies too.
I need those extra xanax for the kratom quit when the anxiety is the worst because my 1.5mg klonipin is the same equivalent dose of xanax I've been on for years. So, my current script keeps me normal ON kratom. So, I need the extra while the WD anxiety is on me.
Thanks again guys. Please, give me your thoughts on my plan-ish thing. I do wanna get clean now. And BTW, I've never abused my benzos, so I will consider myself sober when I get down to exactly what I'm prescribed. Then I'll consider myself clean after I wean/taper off the benzos under my doctor's care and direction.
My sponsor told me to just do exactly what my doctor said, because (referencing my pods) he said that I've been my own chemist/pharmacist for too long, and it's killing me.
Now I gotta take the hard road. I've been looking for an easier softer way, but from AA I know that the results are nil until I let go absolutely.
Thanks again you guys. I love you all!
pnm
You're both right, and Nancy, you have some good insight.
I'm basically doing with kratom what I did with the pods. When I quit drinking, I felt like I had made such a huge accomplishment (and I had) but I let that be my rationalization for using pods. Of course, I used pods moderately at first, and it slowly crept up on me. The kratom though, now that I've made another accomplishment by getting off the pods (one of the toughest opiates to quit), is more than sneaking up on me. It's steam-rolling me. I'm using more and more. I planned on my two larger doses rather than my 4 smaller ones today, but I took 3 larger doses, about 10g each. I did half n half of my generic kratom and maeng da twice, once at 9 a.m., and again at 2 p.m. Then I took about 11g of bali just an hour or so ago around 10 p.m.
So here's my idea now. Rather than CT, and rather than a soft taper, I'm going to do something in between. A hard taper. Rapid, if you will.
Tomorrow a.m. I'll take some loperamide and a standard recommended dose of dxm. I had success with this reducing my symptoms in the past. Then, I'll see how long I can go without dosing kratom, and will limit myself to 5g. I'll see how tomorrow goes and gauge what I can do from there.
I'll keep you guys posted and I'll appreciate you guys keeping me honest. I'm not talking to anyone IRL about kratom. I don't wanna. And I won't have to if I can get off kratom pretty quickly.
I've been preaching what I ought to have been practicing. And well, I did practice it well during my 6 week pods taper, which was hell. I'm going to hope I can do this quick kratom taper in a week or two.
Nancy, I do have some xanax in addition to my 1.5mg/day script for klonopin. What I did was switch to klonopin after I filled my last fill of xanax before needing to go back to the doc. That way I could say I'm just switching, but have the extra to help while I kick the kratom. But I've been taking my 1.5 mg k-pin a day and doing .5-1mg of xannies too.
I need those extra xanax for the kratom quit when the anxiety is the worst because my 1.5mg klonipin is the same equivalent dose of xanax I've been on for years. So, my current script keeps me normal ON kratom. So, I need the extra while the WD anxiety is on me.
Thanks again guys. Please, give me your thoughts on my plan-ish thing. I do wanna get clean now. And BTW, I've never abused my benzos, so I will consider myself sober when I get down to exactly what I'm prescribed. Then I'll consider myself clean after I wean/taper off the benzos under my doctor's care and direction.
My sponsor told me to just do exactly what my doctor said, because (referencing my pods) he said that I've been my own chemist/pharmacist for too long, and it's killing me.
Now I gotta take the hard road. I've been looking for an easier softer way, but from AA I know that the results are nil until I let go absolutely.
Thanks again you guys. I love you all!
pnm
kickingkratom
Greenlighter
- Joined
- Jun 9, 2012
- Messages
- 3
Hey guys,
I know I haven't been on here in a while, and I haven't read up on the thread yet so I'm not sure what has been said. I wanted to come back here and give you an update on my progress. Suffice it to say, I have completely kicked a ~15g/daily, 4-month long kratom addiction. All of my withdrawal symptoms are gone. I wake up happy now, and look forward to normal things again. I'm going to post something I posted on another forum, but I'll still stick around here if anyone wants to pm me/ask me things.
-Had a habit of ~10-15g of plain bali leaf a day
-Day 0: dropped down to 6-7g
-Day 1: dropped again to 4.5g
-Days 2-4: dropped to 3.5g
Withdrawal symptoms were becoming very apparent by this point. I chose to take a very steep taper (which honestly I wouldn't recommend) and I think the wds hit me much harder than they would with a moderate taper. Depression and anxiety are the worst at this point. Haven't had too much trouble with physical symptoms or getting to sleep.
-Day 5: down to ~2.5g
Symptoms are still bad/getting slightly worse. Everything is manageable but still just sucks.
-Days 6-8
These were without a doubt the worst days of withdrawal. I came so close to freaking out/asking my parents for help or something else stupid. Cravings were terrible and I was just filled with despair and anxiety. LUCKILY, on day 7 I managed to find some bud which really really helped me that night. It calmed me down and gave me some much needed good feelings. This was the only time I smoked during withdrawal but it definitely helped with nighttime boredom/sleeping.
-Days 9-14
Like I said, by this point the worst was over. I had ordered some phenibut and starting with Days 9 took 1500mg, Day 10 1000mg, Day 11 500 mg, Day 12 500mg, Day 13 nothing. I'm not sure how effective this was in alleviating the depression.anxiety symptoms but During these last few days I felt nearly normal and happy again, so my guess is that it did help.
And that's it. While I haven't had any cravings in at least 10 days, I do still think about kratom sometimes. Luckily I have none left and am easily able to stop myself from ordering more. My life is back to normal, and for anyone out there who is going through or is planning to go through what I have, just don't give up because I promise you it does get better. I know it's hard to keep a positive attitude like that when your in the thick of anxiety/depression symptoms, really. I know you'll feel hopeless and anxious and depressed and honestly you will have to deal with that. BUT, I also know that you will forget. You will forget what it's like to feel that shitty and your life will go back to normal, and it will make you happy again. I know that when i was in mid wds the things I really wanted to know was how people were doing 1-2 months after kicking, and hopefully this will give you some indication. I'm completely free of kratom and the withdrawal symptoms, I have forgotten the awfulness of the depression I went through, and I think I would consider this a success story. So good luck anyone else and I think I'll check on here from time to time so everyone else should feel free to post here/pm me if they need help.
Oh, and thank you everyone who came here and gave their support and shared their stories. I'm not sure I could have done this alone, and one of the things that helped me the most was reading other people's stories and talking to them, so thank you.
I know I haven't been on here in a while, and I haven't read up on the thread yet so I'm not sure what has been said. I wanted to come back here and give you an update on my progress. Suffice it to say, I have completely kicked a ~15g/daily, 4-month long kratom addiction. All of my withdrawal symptoms are gone. I wake up happy now, and look forward to normal things again. I'm going to post something I posted on another forum, but I'll still stick around here if anyone wants to pm me/ask me things.
-Had a habit of ~10-15g of plain bali leaf a day
-Day 0: dropped down to 6-7g
-Day 1: dropped again to 4.5g
-Days 2-4: dropped to 3.5g
Withdrawal symptoms were becoming very apparent by this point. I chose to take a very steep taper (which honestly I wouldn't recommend) and I think the wds hit me much harder than they would with a moderate taper. Depression and anxiety are the worst at this point. Haven't had too much trouble with physical symptoms or getting to sleep.
-Day 5: down to ~2.5g
Symptoms are still bad/getting slightly worse. Everything is manageable but still just sucks.
-Days 6-8
These were without a doubt the worst days of withdrawal. I came so close to freaking out/asking my parents for help or something else stupid. Cravings were terrible and I was just filled with despair and anxiety. LUCKILY, on day 7 I managed to find some bud which really really helped me that night. It calmed me down and gave me some much needed good feelings. This was the only time I smoked during withdrawal but it definitely helped with nighttime boredom/sleeping.
-Days 9-14
Like I said, by this point the worst was over. I had ordered some phenibut and starting with Days 9 took 1500mg, Day 10 1000mg, Day 11 500 mg, Day 12 500mg, Day 13 nothing. I'm not sure how effective this was in alleviating the depression.anxiety symptoms but During these last few days I felt nearly normal and happy again, so my guess is that it did help.
And that's it. While I haven't had any cravings in at least 10 days, I do still think about kratom sometimes. Luckily I have none left and am easily able to stop myself from ordering more. My life is back to normal, and for anyone out there who is going through or is planning to go through what I have, just don't give up because I promise you it does get better. I know it's hard to keep a positive attitude like that when your in the thick of anxiety/depression symptoms, really. I know you'll feel hopeless and anxious and depressed and honestly you will have to deal with that. BUT, I also know that you will forget. You will forget what it's like to feel that shitty and your life will go back to normal, and it will make you happy again. I know that when i was in mid wds the things I really wanted to know was how people were doing 1-2 months after kicking, and hopefully this will give you some indication. I'm completely free of kratom and the withdrawal symptoms, I have forgotten the awfulness of the depression I went through, and I think I would consider this a success story. So good luck anyone else and I think I'll check on here from time to time so everyone else should feel free to post here/pm me if they need help.
Oh, and thank you everyone who came here and gave their support and shared their stories. I'm not sure I could have done this alone, and one of the things that helped me the most was reading other people's stories and talking to them, so thank you.
podsnomo
Bluelighter
- Joined
- May 23, 2012
- Messages
- 388
So I haven't started the quick taper I spoke of. That next day after, that I mentioned in my last post, I took the Dxm and lope in the morning and didn't need, or feel like I needed a dose for a good several hours. Then I took some that day, and that was supposed to be all, but my gf was having a party she planned the day before (!) and expected me to help her clean, so I dosed again, and then again before bed. That was yesterday. Today I had one 10g early, a 5g midday, and 6g just now.
I need to be mentally prepared to go through with it, and I wasn't. So, now my plan is to tart tomorrow. I actually have time to weigh out some doses and write down my taper plan. I wanna be totally free, and yet I know I'm going to have to tolerate some feel-shitty as I go through it, and I'm being a damn wimp about it.
I need to get my head on straight! What happened to you guys, beatit, nancy?
You guys still checkin' in?
Congrats on kicking, Kicking! I think I'll look at your taper and maybe make mine a bit smoother.
Thing is, I don't seem to need the same amount everyday. I need less if I slept well, etc.
I gotta figure this out!
best to all,
pnm
I need to be mentally prepared to go through with it, and I wasn't. So, now my plan is to tart tomorrow. I actually have time to weigh out some doses and write down my taper plan. I wanna be totally free, and yet I know I'm going to have to tolerate some feel-shitty as I go through it, and I'm being a damn wimp about it.
I need to get my head on straight! What happened to you guys, beatit, nancy?
You guys still checkin' in?
Congrats on kicking, Kicking! I think I'll look at your taper and maybe make mine a bit smoother.
Thing is, I don't seem to need the same amount everyday. I need less if I slept well, etc.
I gotta figure this out!
best to all,
pnm
nancylynnsmith
Greenlighter
- Joined
- Jul 3, 2012
- Messages
- 37
Hey PNM,
This is Nancy. Still hanging in there. I've thought several times about ordering more, but what keeps going on in my mind is that I think I want to face whatever it is that I use Kratom (and drinking) to avoid. I drink A LOT. Almost every day. But I'm rationalizing that I need to go CT one addiction at a time. I found some AA meetings close to where I live in Austin, and I'll tackle that next. My husband, however, is not an alcoholic like I am (I'm a highly functioning alcoholic), and doesn't think I need to stop. But that's a whole other issue that is keeping me drinking. Anyway, I'm drinking again, almost every day - and so I'm kind of pushing the Kratom preoccupation to the back burner while I figure out what I'm going to do about my drinking. There is obviously some underlying issues I need to face without drugs or drinks, and I'm cautiously optimistic that I'm strong enough to face them. So PNM, I'm 'tapering' my drinking, so I know what you're facing. I think maybe, at some point, we're going to have to dive off the high dive, without any of it, and just face stuff. The wd's, the stuff we don't want to think about, etc. But hang in there. Really. The Kratom thing is really hard, but you can do it. You'll be really proud of yourself, and you'll save money, and your liver, and all the other unknowns that we're taking a chance with if we use Kratom. Addiction is progressive. I DO know that. So don't give up!
NLS
This is Nancy. Still hanging in there. I've thought several times about ordering more, but what keeps going on in my mind is that I think I want to face whatever it is that I use Kratom (and drinking) to avoid. I drink A LOT. Almost every day. But I'm rationalizing that I need to go CT one addiction at a time. I found some AA meetings close to where I live in Austin, and I'll tackle that next. My husband, however, is not an alcoholic like I am (I'm a highly functioning alcoholic), and doesn't think I need to stop. But that's a whole other issue that is keeping me drinking. Anyway, I'm drinking again, almost every day - and so I'm kind of pushing the Kratom preoccupation to the back burner while I figure out what I'm going to do about my drinking. There is obviously some underlying issues I need to face without drugs or drinks, and I'm cautiously optimistic that I'm strong enough to face them. So PNM, I'm 'tapering' my drinking, so I know what you're facing. I think maybe, at some point, we're going to have to dive off the high dive, without any of it, and just face stuff. The wd's, the stuff we don't want to think about, etc. But hang in there. Really. The Kratom thing is really hard, but you can do it. You'll be really proud of yourself, and you'll save money, and your liver, and all the other unknowns that we're taking a chance with if we use Kratom. Addiction is progressive. I DO know that. So don't give up!
NLS
ArtVandalay
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Oct 3, 2008
- Messages
- 710
^
If you go to one AA meeting and don't like it, don't give up, try another. I didn't dig the first NA meeting I attended, but went to a different one and liked it. If anything, you'll be surrounded by others in the same boat as you, and you won't feel all alone in the big, black sea that is addiction.
If you go to one AA meeting and don't like it, don't give up, try another. I didn't dig the first NA meeting I attended, but went to a different one and liked it. If anything, you'll be surrounded by others in the same boat as you, and you won't feel all alone in the big, black sea that is addiction.
nancylynnsmith
Greenlighter
- Joined
- Jul 3, 2012
- Messages
- 37
Okaaaay gentlemen! Where are you!
Nancy
Nancy
podsnomo
Bluelighter
- Joined
- May 23, 2012
- Messages
- 388
I'm struggling. I told my gf about my poppy pod habit. She had no idea. It's been over a month since I took any poppies, but the fact that I'd hid it from her for basically our whole relationship went over like shit. I didn't tell her about kratom. I'm trying to reduce my usage as much as I can. I only had one dose today and I'm not gonna take anymore today. If I can get through the night, my reasoning is I should be able to get through the next day, and the next. I'm sizing up my chances at making a CT run right now. I'm so tired of taking shit to feel "better" and want my sobriety to be absolute.
If I can't get along well though, I'll take the smallest amounts possible in order to get through. I've heard that tiny amounts, like less than a gram, can alleviate WDs and help people get through a kick.
I'm so sick of being a slave to shit. For years it was booze, then for a year after I got rid of booze (and during booze-days), poppy pods, and now a month after pods it's been kratom. I SO want to be free. I know I have to go through some shitty feelings for a while. I more than deserve it. Luckily that hard part isn't as long as the habit itself. I know I can do it. I just need to do it. Like it says in a new nook I got, "Living Sober", "Easy does it--but do it!"
Thanks for asking in on me Nancy. I know you got through it. And I know what you mean about 1 addiction at a time. It's either that or a 30-60 day rehab facility, which I can't afford.
Will your husband understand if you tell him you think your drinking is a proble, even if he doesn't, and that you want to quit. If AA there is like it is here, you'll find it a very welcoming place with great people. The newcomer is always the most important person in the room. It's a simple program. I could tell you all about AA if you like.
How's it coming with your drinking?
Take it easy Nancy.
Peace and love,
pnm
If I can't get along well though, I'll take the smallest amounts possible in order to get through. I've heard that tiny amounts, like less than a gram, can alleviate WDs and help people get through a kick.
I'm so sick of being a slave to shit. For years it was booze, then for a year after I got rid of booze (and during booze-days), poppy pods, and now a month after pods it's been kratom. I SO want to be free. I know I have to go through some shitty feelings for a while. I more than deserve it. Luckily that hard part isn't as long as the habit itself. I know I can do it. I just need to do it. Like it says in a new nook I got, "Living Sober", "Easy does it--but do it!"
Thanks for asking in on me Nancy. I know you got through it. And I know what you mean about 1 addiction at a time. It's either that or a 30-60 day rehab facility, which I can't afford.
Will your husband understand if you tell him you think your drinking is a proble, even if he doesn't, and that you want to quit. If AA there is like it is here, you'll find it a very welcoming place with great people. The newcomer is always the most important person in the room. It's a simple program. I could tell you all about AA if you like.
How's it coming with your drinking?
Take it easy Nancy.
Peace and love,
pnm
nancylynnsmith
Greenlighter
- Joined
- Jul 3, 2012
- Messages
- 37
Wow,
I'm relieved that you posted. You and I are in the same boat. I just want to deal with life on its own terms. I don't want to numb myself with anything. I think I used Kratom for energy and to alleviate boredom. I do the same with drinking. And to procrastinate. I have a really stressful job, but I'm off in the summer. Today, I've come this close to ordering a shitload of Kratom because I know that I'm going to have to start dealing with my job soon. Grrrrrr. I do have a question: did your girlfriend not know anything about your various addictions? You must be like me, pretty able to function like a normal person. Was it a dealbreaker? I hope she realizes that you are committed to a better life. CT was just a lot easier for me with K, but , wow, I so can't quit drinking. It's been a month without the Kratom, but I have to tell you, the psychological WD is worse than the digestive problems, insomnia, shakes, lack of energy etc - which I would have thought would be over by now (of course I took a LOT of Kratom for three years). It's not having that 'boost' that I miss. So I'm substituting booze. When I go back to Austin on Wednesday, I'm going to have to fess up to my husband just how much I was drinking that he didn't know about. He's going to miss drinking with me - but he only would have one or two. I could drink a half a fifth every day. So, he is NOT going to be supportive of AA maybe, but I really can't quit drinking and it has gotten worse over the last several years. I went to AA when I was 24 and didn't drink for about fifteen years. I'm making up for lost time.
Just hang in there PNM. Please! I have to know that it can be done.
Thanks,
N
I'm relieved that you posted. You and I are in the same boat. I just want to deal with life on its own terms. I don't want to numb myself with anything. I think I used Kratom for energy and to alleviate boredom. I do the same with drinking. And to procrastinate. I have a really stressful job, but I'm off in the summer. Today, I've come this close to ordering a shitload of Kratom because I know that I'm going to have to start dealing with my job soon. Grrrrrr. I do have a question: did your girlfriend not know anything about your various addictions? You must be like me, pretty able to function like a normal person. Was it a dealbreaker? I hope she realizes that you are committed to a better life. CT was just a lot easier for me with K, but , wow, I so can't quit drinking. It's been a month without the Kratom, but I have to tell you, the psychological WD is worse than the digestive problems, insomnia, shakes, lack of energy etc - which I would have thought would be over by now (of course I took a LOT of Kratom for three years). It's not having that 'boost' that I miss. So I'm substituting booze. When I go back to Austin on Wednesday, I'm going to have to fess up to my husband just how much I was drinking that he didn't know about. He's going to miss drinking with me - but he only would have one or two. I could drink a half a fifth every day. So, he is NOT going to be supportive of AA maybe, but I really can't quit drinking and it has gotten worse over the last several years. I went to AA when I was 24 and didn't drink for about fifteen years. I'm making up for lost time.
Just hang in there PNM. Please! I have to know that it can be done.
Thanks,
N
podsnomo
Bluelighter
- Joined
- May 23, 2012
- Messages
- 388
Nance, it's amazing how similar our stories are. My gf knew of my alcoholism. It was pretty apparent through the first year+ or our relationship. Then I quit, had a meltdown, and went to an outpatient rehab program to help me sober up. I was successful in quitting drinking. At the same time, that first time I quit drinking, I quit the poppy pods too. Since I didn't know how much morphine and other alkaloids were in the pods, I didn't know how hooked I was, and I thought I was in for a rough road. It turned out that my poppy pod habit was so mild that I didn't have any serious WD symptoms. Just a little runs for a few days and some insomnia, which could have been partially from quitting drinking too.
Anyway, then after my 2 weeks of that program I was off and running with AA. I was doing great. I wasn't drinking and felt better than ever, and since my pod WDs were so tiny, I figured I didn't have much of a problem with them and could keep using them "sometimes". Sometimes turned into everyday eventually and then every day turned into twice a day, then thrice, then upping my doses. By the time I realized I had a problem I was into them bad. I waited for my gf to go out of town, and tried a CT quit from them. Poppies are on of the hardest to WD from due to the host of alkaloids (unlike a refined pharm). I thgouth I had made it, and after she came back I was on day 5 of no pods and was so messed up from a lack of sleep and the WD symptoms were getting worse. I caved and made some tea from the poppy stems I had. This was weak tea, but it alleviated the symptoms. During that respite, I ordered another shipment of pods. and used the tea I made to stretch me to the next delivery.
I ordered 2 lbs, planning on this being enough to quit. After the order, the vendor emailed me to say their inventory person accidentally only shipped one pound and that they'd be sending another pound, with extra for the trouble, to make up for it. So I get my first shipment and it's a full 2 lbs. Then a couple days later I got the lb+. Well, yippee fucking skippy I thought! I could go wild-ass-monkey-shit with it and be as zoned out as I liked for a while and THEN start the taper, which is what I did. That was the last I ever ordered.
Anywho, so my gf knew of the drinking, but the whole pod adventure above, she knew nothing of until I told a few days ago after being clean from them for about a month. And of course she knows about my addiction to cigarettes and to my morning coffee, if you can call that real addiction. 8)
And yes, I am like you. I have been able to function just fine with whatever addiction(s) I have or had. I was a pretty hardcore alky and managed to earn 3 degrees, including a doctorate. At the height of my drinking before I quit, I'd kill 4-6 beers and up to 3/4 of a fifth of bourbon. On a big party day, I could drink the equivalent of 40 drinks or so. Wow. Loks crazier when I type it!
I have to disagree with you on one thing: you SO CAN quit drinking. With your amounts, you'd do well to have some benzos around in case the DTs started, or get medical help.
You say your husband will miss drinking with you, though he only has one or two? If he loves you then when you tell him you feel like you're in trouble and have a problem with booze, he should definitely support your wishes. Maybe he likes being with you when you're toasted? I think you may have a lot to look into in this area, as we all do. Esp with your alluding to not facing things through use of booze and other substances, again, as we all do.
You seem sure he won't be supportive of AA. People come around on things, esp when they start to see great positive changes. Even my gf, who wanted me to quit drinking, had all kinds of reservations about AA, like that it was a cult, or too religious, etc. But there's nothing religious about it. It's spiritual.
Religion is for people who don't wanna go to hell. Spirituality is for people who've been there. We've been there. Give him time, and don't do a hard sell. Attend some meetings, get some phone numbers. If he's willing to go to al-anon, great. If not, nothing for you to push. You need to work a program, and if he wants to help himself and you with the whole thing, it's only up to him.
You know, you say you're substituting booze for K, but man, coming off booze was like a kilo of K for me, only natural. Once you get past the fog of the first few days, you start waking up with this odd realization that you don't feel like shit. Whoa! So, IMHO, if you could knock that booze out and get into a program, I'd put good betting money on you feeling better than ever pretty quick. And the program is important, because if you quit, it's that feeling SO SO much better that makes you feel like it's OK to drink again.
It can be done. I'm on the journey and in my program I know all kinds of people who were way further over the edge than you or I and they have gotten sober. And it's true as it says in the Big Book, they have been rocketed into a fourth dimension of existence that they never knew existed nor thought possible. That's what I'm after. And as they tell me (and the BB says) if you want what we have and are willing to go to any lengths to get it then you are ready to take certain steps. These steps are the 12 they refer to, and even though my success is only partial at present, I cannot recommend this program enough. It just works if you work it. And it's simple. That doesn't mean it's easy, just, simple.
It CAN be done. I see it daily. I want off the K and you want away from the drink, and we've both been in both boats, and other boats, and we may be in lots of boats, but there is a solution.
The BB is online.
http://www.aa.org/bigbookonline/en_tableofcnt.cfm
It often describes alcoholics different from us, the ones who do all the going to ail and hospitals and all that. That made me think I wasn't a real alcoholic. But the fact that I can't (couldn't) control my consumption (esp when I already had a few) and many other factors make me sure I'm alcoholic.
If you haven't ever, or even if you have several times, read the Doctor's Opinion and then the first several chapters or so.
Let me know what you think.
Keep on keepin on.
Easy does it, but DO it!
Love and peace,
podsnomo
Anyway, then after my 2 weeks of that program I was off and running with AA. I was doing great. I wasn't drinking and felt better than ever, and since my pod WDs were so tiny, I figured I didn't have much of a problem with them and could keep using them "sometimes". Sometimes turned into everyday eventually and then every day turned into twice a day, then thrice, then upping my doses. By the time I realized I had a problem I was into them bad. I waited for my gf to go out of town, and tried a CT quit from them. Poppies are on of the hardest to WD from due to the host of alkaloids (unlike a refined pharm). I thgouth I had made it, and after she came back I was on day 5 of no pods and was so messed up from a lack of sleep and the WD symptoms were getting worse. I caved and made some tea from the poppy stems I had. This was weak tea, but it alleviated the symptoms. During that respite, I ordered another shipment of pods. and used the tea I made to stretch me to the next delivery.
I ordered 2 lbs, planning on this being enough to quit. After the order, the vendor emailed me to say their inventory person accidentally only shipped one pound and that they'd be sending another pound, with extra for the trouble, to make up for it. So I get my first shipment and it's a full 2 lbs. Then a couple days later I got the lb+. Well, yippee fucking skippy I thought! I could go wild-ass-monkey-shit with it and be as zoned out as I liked for a while and THEN start the taper, which is what I did. That was the last I ever ordered.
Anywho, so my gf knew of the drinking, but the whole pod adventure above, she knew nothing of until I told a few days ago after being clean from them for about a month. And of course she knows about my addiction to cigarettes and to my morning coffee, if you can call that real addiction. 8)
And yes, I am like you. I have been able to function just fine with whatever addiction(s) I have or had. I was a pretty hardcore alky and managed to earn 3 degrees, including a doctorate. At the height of my drinking before I quit, I'd kill 4-6 beers and up to 3/4 of a fifth of bourbon. On a big party day, I could drink the equivalent of 40 drinks or so. Wow. Loks crazier when I type it!
I have to disagree with you on one thing: you SO CAN quit drinking. With your amounts, you'd do well to have some benzos around in case the DTs started, or get medical help.
You say your husband will miss drinking with you, though he only has one or two? If he loves you then when you tell him you feel like you're in trouble and have a problem with booze, he should definitely support your wishes. Maybe he likes being with you when you're toasted? I think you may have a lot to look into in this area, as we all do. Esp with your alluding to not facing things through use of booze and other substances, again, as we all do.
You seem sure he won't be supportive of AA. People come around on things, esp when they start to see great positive changes. Even my gf, who wanted me to quit drinking, had all kinds of reservations about AA, like that it was a cult, or too religious, etc. But there's nothing religious about it. It's spiritual.
Religion is for people who don't wanna go to hell. Spirituality is for people who've been there. We've been there. Give him time, and don't do a hard sell. Attend some meetings, get some phone numbers. If he's willing to go to al-anon, great. If not, nothing for you to push. You need to work a program, and if he wants to help himself and you with the whole thing, it's only up to him.
You know, you say you're substituting booze for K, but man, coming off booze was like a kilo of K for me, only natural. Once you get past the fog of the first few days, you start waking up with this odd realization that you don't feel like shit. Whoa! So, IMHO, if you could knock that booze out and get into a program, I'd put good betting money on you feeling better than ever pretty quick. And the program is important, because if you quit, it's that feeling SO SO much better that makes you feel like it's OK to drink again.
It can be done. I'm on the journey and in my program I know all kinds of people who were way further over the edge than you or I and they have gotten sober. And it's true as it says in the Big Book, they have been rocketed into a fourth dimension of existence that they never knew existed nor thought possible. That's what I'm after. And as they tell me (and the BB says) if you want what we have and are willing to go to any lengths to get it then you are ready to take certain steps. These steps are the 12 they refer to, and even though my success is only partial at present, I cannot recommend this program enough. It just works if you work it. And it's simple. That doesn't mean it's easy, just, simple.
It CAN be done. I see it daily. I want off the K and you want away from the drink, and we've both been in both boats, and other boats, and we may be in lots of boats, but there is a solution.
The BB is online.
http://www.aa.org/bigbookonline/en_tableofcnt.cfm
It often describes alcoholics different from us, the ones who do all the going to ail and hospitals and all that. That made me think I wasn't a real alcoholic. But the fact that I can't (couldn't) control my consumption (esp when I already had a few) and many other factors make me sure I'm alcoholic.
If you haven't ever, or even if you have several times, read the Doctor's Opinion and then the first several chapters or so.
Let me know what you think.
Keep on keepin on.
Easy does it, but DO it!
Love and peace,
podsnomo
nancylynnsmith
Greenlighter
- Joined
- Jul 3, 2012
- Messages
- 37
Dear PNM,
Thanks, thanks, thanks. I am obsessed with ordering Kratom, and really worried about going back to Austin and falling into ALL my old habits. It would just be really easy, and I'm a really outstanding rationalizer. I am going to read and re-read your post and process it again, but I just wanted to let you know that I sense a kindred spirit who talks sense and that I really appreciate you taking the time to post. For some reason, that is keeping me from ordering that shitload of Kratom, going to the liquor store to stock up, and dreading what I know will be a hard thing to do when I go back to Austin. I'll check back in soon. Thank a lot.
Love and peace right back,
Nancy
Thanks, thanks, thanks. I am obsessed with ordering Kratom, and really worried about going back to Austin and falling into ALL my old habits. It would just be really easy, and I'm a really outstanding rationalizer. I am going to read and re-read your post and process it again, but I just wanted to let you know that I sense a kindred spirit who talks sense and that I really appreciate you taking the time to post. For some reason, that is keeping me from ordering that shitload of Kratom, going to the liquor store to stock up, and dreading what I know will be a hard thing to do when I go back to Austin. I'll check back in soon. Thank a lot.
Love and peace right back,
Nancy
podsnomo
Bluelighter
- Joined
- May 23, 2012
- Messages
- 388
You're welcome, and I'm looking forward to hearing more when you from you when you get back (or sooner).
Getting sober is actually no THAT hard. It's staying sober. That's the trick.
As far as you are from your last kratom dose, just stay on the road, and it'll keep getting better until you won't need it anymore or even think about it.
Thanks for you kind words. I think we are kindred spirits indeed.
Best to ya
pnm
Getting sober is actually no THAT hard. It's staying sober. That's the trick.
As far as you are from your last kratom dose, just stay on the road, and it'll keep getting better until you won't need it anymore or even think about it.
Thanks for you kind words. I think we are kindred spirits indeed.
Best to ya
pnm
slayerhatesusall
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Jun 9, 2012
- Messages
- 52
podsnomo
Bluelighter
- Joined
- May 23, 2012
- Messages
- 388
All addictions run this course. All addictions are progressive. For some, it may be years and years before it progresses. For some, progression may mean an increasing dependence on the doses more than an increase in frequency or dosage. For almost all that dabble in addictive substances though, it eventually gets you. I went from about 20-25 drinks/day to being alcohol abstinent, but continued my light use of poppy pods at that time, and then the pods snuck up on me, from a teaspoon a day in the mornings, to twice daily, then thrice, and then I started upping those doses. My desire to get nice and high off the pods was almost never successful, but I kept chasing those wonderful warm feelings I had the first few times I dosed aggressively. Then I was up to about $100-150/week of pods! Fuck this, I thought, and went through hell coming off them.
Alcohol started and went the same way, from being something "fun" I did at night, to being something I couldn't keep from doing at night. And it quit working; even when I was drunk as a skunk I wasn't pleased with it. On the contrary, the feelings I would try to drink away eventually started getting worse when I drank, and I'd find myself up and drinking in the middle of the night, screaming at the mirror. I was truly insane.
Now I seem stuck on the kratom. I have lots of rationalizations. Lots. But I know it'll quit working, eventually, and needing more is already beginning. With my next order, which I tell myself will be what I use to taper, I am getting a little bag of some enhanced stuff, but now I'll consider flushing that shit. If it ups my tolerance in a go or two, then I'll be in worse shape much faster. Fuck!
I need to quit kratom! The next day I have off from work I'm going to make an excuse to be alone that day, which will be easy; I have lots of work to do looking for a better job. Anyway, on that day I'm going to not dose in the morning, and wait and see how bad the WDs get. When they get bad, I'm going to take 45mg dxm and 2 or 3 doses worth of loperamide. If this gets me through, and my ambien, valerian, and melatonin cocktail allow me to sleep, I may be on my way to a successful CT quit. If not, I'll use a gram of kratom at a time, 30 minutes apart, until the WDs are tolerable. Then I'll know the baseline for my taper.
This is like my third fucking plan, and I'm growing impatient with myself. It's a good sign, really, that I'm getting the same gumption I had when I got the will (with the help of my higher power) to do that miserable-feeling poppy pod taper.
Anyhow, I hope to be free some day soon, and I wish all of you the best.
Nance, you back in Austin yet? How are you doing with it all?
If you caved, don't be ashamed, just post.
Love and peace,
podsnomo/pnm/pods/whatever-you-wanna-call-me
Keep in mind Kratom is weak and tolerance rises fast. It's less effective than synthetic Opiates and not really worth the money. But it's legal and easily available if you can afford it.
But it keeps many people from getting into more serious trouble with Opiates and it's made illegal there will be many doing much more harm to themselves and society in general.
The withdrawals are really nothing. Some really bad mood and mild physical symptoms for about 5 days. Less than 1/3 of the withdrawal from real Opiates.
But it keeps many people from getting into more serious trouble with Opiates and it's made illegal there will be many doing much more harm to themselves and society in general.
The withdrawals are really nothing. Some really bad mood and mild physical symptoms for about 5 days. Less than 1/3 of the withdrawal from real Opiates.
nancylynnsmith
Greenlighter
- Joined
- Jul 3, 2012
- Messages
- 37
Ugh!
Podsnomore. Ugh, ugh, ugh. Not truly miserable, not truly euphoric. I guess that's the most uncomfortable place to be for me - thus the booze,the Kratom - if I'd known about poppy pods, I'm sure I would have tried that - good thing I didn't know about that . I don't know when I began to think that real life was so boring and depressing. In 1995, I got a migraine that wouldn't go away. That was the beginning I guess. I ended up hospitalized and on the verge of suicide- even though my husband and I had four young kids - if the headache couldn't be treated. Then I went to a neurologist who put me on methadone (I hardly ever took anything stronger than BC powder or Tylenol before that). METHADONE! Wow. After years of headache treatment, I was truly friends with painkillers. So long story - short: I got off all the vicodin, percocet, methadone etc., but I never got over that chase for the opiate high. Thus, the Kratom addiction starting three years ago. I'd been off regular painkillers for years. But a LEGAL and easy to get way to get that brain stroking? GREAT! And in the meantime, combining booze and kratom allowed me to avoid anything I didn't want to deal with - in other words - real life. I forget how to simply BE - and I'd done a pretty good job of just BEING for many years. Now I have to BE but with a KICK. UGH UGH UGH without a kick.
So, anyway, PNM, you're giving up your last kick. No wonder it's hard and scary. I'm giving up my last one too - booze. So okay. Here we go. Thank goodness that both of us have experienced feeling improvement after giving stuff up. I guess we really need to hang onto that. If you try to go CT, what's the worse that can happen? You relapse. You seem like the kind of person who would get impatient with yourself after a certain number of relapses. People who are accomplished and used to success (even if it's not in every part of their lives) are fortunate enough to know how doing good things makes us feel good. What would AA say about tapering off Kratom? I read the Doctor's Opinion in the BB link you put up. Allergy seems to be a pithy way of identifying that broken gene that allows us to rationalize while at the same time reacting to opiates and booze differently than 'normal' people. Tapering to me would just make me want to scratch that itch more. But I totally understand why you are tapering. I drank last night, this morning and I'm planning on drinking tonight because we're all going out for a 'back to Austin' dinner. I'm sitting here waiting for my daughter to leave for an appt. so I can drink some Mike's hard lemonade (as silly a drink if there ever was one). But, like you, it doesn't get me where it used to. Now I get depressed drunk instead of happy drunk. How obnoxious.
When I go back to Austin, I'm not drinking anymore. I found a place close to home that has multiple meetings, and I have begun to ease my husband into the idea that I'm going to do what I have to do to stop drinking. It's going to be hard for him, but he loves me. Hopefully, when he sees me happier and healthier, he'll become a believer. He doesn't need to stop drinking, but me not drinking is going to be a change for him. We'll just have to wait and see.
PNM, I know what it's like to finally realize you're going to have to give up that last thing. It's hard, but I think we're doing our usual brilliant rationalizing if we think that that last thing isn't going to be a REAL barrier to living a great, sober, happy, healthy life. We can't keep trading one thing for another. DO NOT GIVE UP. We are both so close.
I don't know you from Adam's housecat, but I do know that, for some reason, it's important to me that you keep moving forward, even if it's only an millimeter at a time.
Peace, love and sobriety - Nancy
Podsnomore. Ugh, ugh, ugh. Not truly miserable, not truly euphoric. I guess that's the most uncomfortable place to be for me - thus the booze,the Kratom - if I'd known about poppy pods, I'm sure I would have tried that - good thing I didn't know about that . I don't know when I began to think that real life was so boring and depressing. In 1995, I got a migraine that wouldn't go away. That was the beginning I guess. I ended up hospitalized and on the verge of suicide- even though my husband and I had four young kids - if the headache couldn't be treated. Then I went to a neurologist who put me on methadone (I hardly ever took anything stronger than BC powder or Tylenol before that). METHADONE! Wow. After years of headache treatment, I was truly friends with painkillers. So long story - short: I got off all the vicodin, percocet, methadone etc., but I never got over that chase for the opiate high. Thus, the Kratom addiction starting three years ago. I'd been off regular painkillers for years. But a LEGAL and easy to get way to get that brain stroking? GREAT! And in the meantime, combining booze and kratom allowed me to avoid anything I didn't want to deal with - in other words - real life. I forget how to simply BE - and I'd done a pretty good job of just BEING for many years. Now I have to BE but with a KICK. UGH UGH UGH without a kick.
So, anyway, PNM, you're giving up your last kick. No wonder it's hard and scary. I'm giving up my last one too - booze. So okay. Here we go. Thank goodness that both of us have experienced feeling improvement after giving stuff up. I guess we really need to hang onto that. If you try to go CT, what's the worse that can happen? You relapse. You seem like the kind of person who would get impatient with yourself after a certain number of relapses. People who are accomplished and used to success (even if it's not in every part of their lives) are fortunate enough to know how doing good things makes us feel good. What would AA say about tapering off Kratom? I read the Doctor's Opinion in the BB link you put up. Allergy seems to be a pithy way of identifying that broken gene that allows us to rationalize while at the same time reacting to opiates and booze differently than 'normal' people. Tapering to me would just make me want to scratch that itch more. But I totally understand why you are tapering. I drank last night, this morning and I'm planning on drinking tonight because we're all going out for a 'back to Austin' dinner. I'm sitting here waiting for my daughter to leave for an appt. so I can drink some Mike's hard lemonade (as silly a drink if there ever was one). But, like you, it doesn't get me where it used to. Now I get depressed drunk instead of happy drunk. How obnoxious.
When I go back to Austin, I'm not drinking anymore. I found a place close to home that has multiple meetings, and I have begun to ease my husband into the idea that I'm going to do what I have to do to stop drinking. It's going to be hard for him, but he loves me. Hopefully, when he sees me happier and healthier, he'll become a believer. He doesn't need to stop drinking, but me not drinking is going to be a change for him. We'll just have to wait and see.
PNM, I know what it's like to finally realize you're going to have to give up that last thing. It's hard, but I think we're doing our usual brilliant rationalizing if we think that that last thing isn't going to be a REAL barrier to living a great, sober, happy, healthy life. We can't keep trading one thing for another. DO NOT GIVE UP. We are both so close.
I don't know you from Adam's housecat, but I do know that, for some reason, it's important to me that you keep moving forward, even if it's only an millimeter at a time.
Peace, love and sobriety - Nancy