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  • BDD Moderators: Keif’ Richards | negrogesic

Kratom addiction and my distorted perception of reality (help)

S

Slug_In_Ya_Noggin

Bluelighter
Joined
Mar 21, 2015
Messages
72
I have been taking kratom every day for about 8 months now. I take 15 grams twice a day. It was great in the beginning when i could take that dose and be completly relived of my anxiety, depression, and back pain. I used to iv heroin, kratom completely filled that void for me. So as you can see i love this wonderful plant with all my heart and i planned on taking it everyday for the rest of my life as it has helped me so greatly these past months.
Things are different now, i feel like my whole enitire perception of reality has changed so much. Its so hard to describe the feeling I'm talking about or how it changed. I feel like everything is kind of like a dream and i have this constant feeling of guilt and saddness surrounding everthing and everybody i see or think about im just so sad all the time. I think about my life constantly i go through all the memories i have about my life good and bad, they all have this weird sort of guilt feeling attached to them (even the good ones now) and every time they pass my mind which is alot i get sad and feel guilty i know i shouldnt feel that way because i have nothing to feel guilty about. Im not even totally sure if the feeling im getting is guilt or something else but its pretty damn close to that. I cant stop thinking about these things another example is i was watching a documentary called intervention where someone is addicted to drugs and gets clean and all that. In the show she was prostituting herself to pay for her drug habbit. I could not stop thinking about this. It bothered me so much, ive been around this sorta thing before in real life and its nothing new to me. Why are situations like this that i have no control over make me feel so guilty? All i can think about all the time is like how stupid and pointless everthing in life is. If kratom is causing this i want to stop it by tapering. Its just so hard latley ive been trying to take only 7 grams twice a day and i find myself making excuses to take more and get a buzz its so hard for me because of my addictive personality and because i dont know for a FACT that the kratom is causing this. If it was killing me or giving me stomach ulcers i would have some motivation to quit but for right now i dont know for sure if kratom is causing this thats why im turning to you guys for help if its not causing it i want to find out what is and try to fix it.
Everyday ending my life sounds like a better and better idea. This scares me.... Please give me some advise from your own life if youve felt like this before or if you think it could be caused by something else.
I forgot to mention i dont use any other drugs besides THC in the form of wax, dabs, whatever. I dont buy weed and havent for a long time but i really dont think its the wax. Thank you for reading all advise is appreciated.
 
I just stumbled across this old thread and thought I would chime in. This has been much like my experience with Kratom. I also have been consuming Kratom for 8 months and currently take about the same daily dose as OP (25ish grams).
I also use it for similar reasons; mainly depression and motivation. Although after time I've experienced very similar side-effects as OP's, such as the sadness. I am constantly worried and just plain bummed. After continual use, my overall motivation has lessened. I'm okay during my Kratom buzz but my life is just less balanced now.
I also intend to taper but have had similar problems with it. I always go for the buzz and say screw the tapered dose, mainly because my life is really in the pits right now and the Kratom buzz is the only thing that seems to brighten my days. Days that are constantly filled with worry, sadness, guilt and fear from this wierd addiction.
I know I can do a taper because I've succeeded before (although never to complete 0); but I just keep pushing off the consequences.
Hopefully OP will chime back in someday to know how everything went for him/her.
 
I understand how you feel. I have been using for a little over a year and now everything is stale and blah. I no longer get any rush like in the beginning I have to take it to feel normal (whatever that is these days). I too am filled with guilt, disdain for myself and my current position in life. All day my mind races with regret and shame and disgust. I wish I had never started on this stuff because I have an extremely addictive personality and I have dug such a deep hole that I cannot even think straight sometimes and even doing normal activities is difficult. I wish you all the best and I wish I had a solution or some positive or productive measures to help us out.
 
Hey DogLover,
Have you ever quit or taken breaks? I think everyone who has struggled with Kratom should at least have some quit attempts under their belt. I have quit twice. It's certainly not fun. Actually, it's hard (for me). But it is very doable, and relieves many negative effects caused by Kratom. Just remember that we are not helpless and there are things we can do.
If you would like to abstain feel free to hit me up if you like. I may be able to offer some insight which may be of help. Also the QuittingKratom sub Reddit is excellent.
 
Well I have used kratom off and on for a few years, sometimes I would use it every couple of weeks and then I eventually got into using it daily along with coffee to help me power through my work day and cover up my sleep deprivation. I honestly have been at that point of eating an ounce in 24 hours a few times so I hope you listen to me with sincerity, I am experienced in this. I have always gone for the green strains such a emerald malaysian, emerald maeng da, etc...never had any interest in red vein strains because like I said I only took it for energy and motivation along with some minor pain relief, pherhaps this is why I don't experience these negative effects you describe because you have been using the more opiod filled strains rather than the ones with the energizing indole-alkaloids.

I was using heavily for maybe 8 months and recently moved to a new place and just never got around to buying more. I have experienced absolutely no withdrawals and barely think about it unless I read about it somewhere, it's very kind on someone who quits cold turkey out of nowhere, I can't imagine why anyone would need to taper but like I said maybe red veins are a different beast. I have quit kratom for a few weeks in the past after months of using it multiple times a day and the worst feeling I ever had when I did it those two times was fatique the very first day, no nausea or fiending at all and then completely 100% the second day. I am posting this to clear up this idea that you will become some slave to this plant when you start using it, I can say in my experience that not using coffee is a demon of fire in terms of withdrawal, headaches...nausea...irritability...fatique...suicidal thoughts (lol) etc. While kratom is like not getting enough sleep the night before.

My advice I guess is to switch to the green veined strains and see if your general mood you experience on a day to day basis improves, if not then just go stay at a friends house or relatives house for a day or two, the change of setting will eliminate triggers to take kratom and it shouldn't be too hard to quit within a day or two. Your mileage may vary but overall I think kratom is a gentle giant and deserves a lot more praise than it does negative publicity, but once again my whole perception could be skewed due to only eating the green veined strains during my time with it. To me it seems to possess none of the addictive or withdrawal qualities of an actual opiate or opioid. That's my 2 cents feel free to message me or reply if you have other questions, kratom is certainly a drug I can relate to.
 
Kratom is a strange beast. It is one thing for someone and very different for others. It seems to affect different people in many ways.

I myself also use only white and green veins, Maeng Da and sometimes Malay . I enjoy the energy boost and use it for work as well.

I think there are many complex reasons why one person may experience negative side effects, while many other people never have this issue. Also some people experience little W/D and some experience bad W/D.

I do think a lot of this has to do with strain type. I agree that red veins are more closely related to opiates and are probably more likely to create side effects and bad W/D, as opposed to the stimulating strains.

I also think biological make-up, underlying mental issues, personal sensitivity, etc. can have a lot to do with Kratom's varying effects.

It works great for some people long term, and others not so much (just like many medications such as antidepressants).
For me is seems to work really well for awhile and eventually something changes. I find when my daily dose is too high, simply lowering my dose relieves a lot of problems. When I have withdrawn I experience RLS, insomnia, bad fatigue, etc. last time I withdre I even got stuck with PAWS which was pretty surprising.

That's awesome that it continues to work for ya Blaze. I wish I was in your boat. With me it works for awhile and then becomes a problem, and my withdrawals suck donkey dick.

As Blaze mentioned, try switching strains. It could only help. I'll also suggest reducing your dosage. I just reduced my dose from 25 grams to around 15 grams, and don't have those problematic side affects that I was experiencing before. However I'm still concerned about my eventual withdrawal.

Kratom is a strange beast. Anyways let's keep this thread going. Any one want to add their experience? OP?
 
as a former vendor and long time user, I can say no doubt i only enjoy it now under 4g daily, preferably 2 or so. I started using it for a terrible pain condition in my leg, let myself get up to 30 - 40g a day for several months. you gotta understand, 30g of kratom is just like any other opiate habit. it will suck ALL the fun out of life,
and put you in a state of general anhedonia. I use less than 4 now because it's the only way i can not experience these effects. Then again, if I ate 2.5mg hydrocodone every couple of days, that wouldn't mess with me either. all im saying, there's a definite possibility for all your symptoms, ESPECIALLY at more than 1x/daily and > 4g
 
Hey guys this is my first post im kind of new to BL im sorry it might have seemed like i was ignoring you guys i posted this a long time ago and checked it multiple times a day but no one responded so i quit checking it Thank you all for replying it feels good to know that im not alone with this feeling (i dont mean that in a selfish way its just feels good to know im not stuck like this) i thought i might be alone because all ive ever heard or seen is postive stuff about kratom it helped so incredibly much that i thought theres no way there could be anything wrong with it long term because its natural and people in asia use it everyday for their entire lives. As of latley ive been actually able to take 7 grams twice a day and be "alright" i dont get any sort of rush or even any positive effects i just dont withdrawl or feel as depressed ive been thinking about quiting completely and then just giving myself a treat every few days but im afraid to go to absolute zero kratom it just scares me thinking about it that probably sounds dumb but its how i feel
I find myself still making excuses to take a big dose (i regret it every single time i do because all those feelings i described in the original post come back and i hate it) is there anything that helped you guys taper successfully? Something to help that depressed feeling i get when i miss a dose? because that's eventually going to HAVE to happen you know?
Any knowledge helps!
 
Well I'll try to give some advice from my caffeine withdrawal experiences, I had a much harder time when I would quit coffee than I did kratom so I'll give you the strategies I used for that.

Well do you work long shifts at work or have a job? I don't need details just wondering if you have something besides sleep that can take up 6-10 hours of your 24h day.

To me there's two routes you could go, one is you can try and take half the dose you normally would right before work and just be the best worker you can be, stay busy do the extra little stuff you don't have to do normally, anything that can keep you occupied 100% of the time you are scheduled, after that eat half of your normal evening dose and go hang out with friends...get stoned or play video games go on a hike go bowling, anything that isn't just sitting around watching tv or other activities that could facilitate self awareness thoughts. Basically the goal of this strategy is to just keep you so busy and on your toes that you don't even notice that you didn't take your full dose because you are having fun or otherwise occupied, it is possible to pull minor tricks on your body, though it can only be tricked so much which is why you will still eat some kratom, just not as much. Second day skip the morning dose and don't bring any with you to work, once again stay occupied until you get off work then eat the same dose you had the day before when you are off work and go out with the friends again or whatever you consider fun but new enough to keep you interested. The third day I'd recommend the same as the last 2 days but no kratom at all, and then just keep it up after that man, I know I'm making it sound so simple like a recipe for a cake but I know it isn't that easy.

The other route is take your first half dose after work on a day before you have 2 days off and just hit it cold turkey on the second day instead of the third, I honestly think this route is rougher but maybe you simply can't find the energy to work without kratom so you need to just be alone and fight it, I'm not sure how bad your withdrawal is so I can't tell you which route works better for you. To me this method is much more dangerous for relapse as well because you are literally just sitting around focusing on how shitty you feel and making it worse than it needs to be. If you go this route you can smoke weed, watch movies, take walks, cook some good meals, clean the house, or do something to keep yourself occupied, even if you are gonna do this isolation method I still advocate you stay occupied as much as possible, nothing good comes from boredom when you are trying to stop taking something that brings you fun, you'll be so bored you'll convince yourself to take it and fall right back into it.

Those are my suggestions for tapering/quitting, hope it helps you one way or another, I'm sorry I can't offer better help than that you will get through this though man every long journey starts with the first step.
 
That is an excellent point CDIN
Abstinence is probably best, (if possible) Although (if necessary), Moderation is key. Stil over use of anything can mean trouble.

It's nice to hear good honest feedback from someone who was in the business. Thank you
 
Do you have a friend or a roomie? When I was quitting smoking I gave him all my cigs and told him to give me 1 a day, then 1 every other day, then 1 every few days etc... until I quit. It worked nicely.
 
Dude I know exactly what you mean. The depression, the fear of withdrawals. I am standing in your shoes, they just might be a different size.

I took the time to respond to your initial post because it really resonated with my own experience.
Still I am currently addicted to Kratom. It sucks major cock and balls.

Like you I also believed Kratom was a natural and safe alternative (don't believe everything you read on the internet), although now I realize it is simply an addictive drug.

Botanically speaking, kratom shares similarities with coffee (hence the Kratom/coffee comparison). This relation is common, and completely irrelevant, unless you are planning on doing some gardening : ).
Its basically a marketing ploy.
Biologically speaking, Kratom is Nothing like coffee. It acts upon the brain much differently.
The primary alkaloid of Kratom interacts with the Mu receptor of the brain. This is the same receptor that opiates and opioids act upon. So as far as your brain is concerned, you have been ingesting narcotic pain medication.

When Kratom is consumed, this receptor site oversaturates itself with Dopamine (happy, feel good, reward chemicals), hence why one's mood becomes 'boosted'. After continued use, your brain begins to think that this is normal, and the brains natural homeostasis becomes disrupted. Eventually your brains dopamine production begins to down regulate (producing less and less of the happy stuff), because Dopamine is a limited resource.
Then depression sets in. Your brain has become unaccustomed to its normal ability to regulate itself. The only way to feel good is to provide the external source which promotes Dopamine, i.e. Kratom.
So yes, Kratom is causing depression. I'm dealing with the same thing.

When faced with this problem there are really only 2 choices:
1) Withdrawal from the substance
2) Continue the addiction cycle

What you are doing now is the very same thing that I am doing. Sustaining on a maintenance dose. Your dose is 7g x2 daily; and mine is 8.5g x2 daily.
These are the doses that keep us baseline and allow us to feel 'normal', without feeling any withdrawal symptoms.
My advice would be to taper down your dose gradually and then withdrawal from Kratom at a Low dose.
This is what I am doing before I withdrawal.
Tapering is the single most important thing that someone can do when preparing for withdrawal.

Yeah I figured this post was abandoned, I didn't think you were ignoring anyone,
Its good that ya chimed in OP and it sounds like things are bit better. That's good.

A great first step is finding a support network with knowledge
I use Reddit - QuittingKratom
you should meet me there, its way better and there's a lot of info and people. They're awesome.

Take Care and hit me with any questions man
 
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Tapering while relevant, cigarettes not nearly so. Any experience tapering a weak opiate/opioid perhaps? Now that experience could be useful.
 
Well shatterpoint what strains do you use? Curious if this extreme withdrawal is more from red or green veined strains.
 
Im all green and white man. Maeng da and Malay. I like the energy,

I think with Kratom there are just so many variables that give such a wide spectrum of experiences.
But I do know what happens to me after extended use, as well as many others.
But I also realize that other people never seem to have an issue.

When I discontinue Kratom, sleep is almost impossible for about 5 days. RLS, insomnia, bad lethargy, depression, anxiety, etc.
Many of these symptoms take weeks to dissipate.

For me it was truly an opiate/opioid detox (which I have gone through before), that lasted weeks.
 
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Shatterpoint said:
Im all green and white man. Maeng da and Malay. I like the energy,

I think with Kratom there are just so many variables that give such a wide spectrum of experiences.
But I do know what happens to me after extended use, as well as many others.
But I also realize that other people never seem to have an issue.

When I discontinue Kratom, sleep is almost impossible for about 5 days. RLS, insomnia, bad lethargy, depression, anxiety, etc.
Many of these symptoms take weeks to dissipate.

For me it was truly an opiate/opioid detox (which I have gone through before), that lasted weeks.
Click to expand...
 
Anyway, OP;
if you would like advice, I will continue to watch this thread. Just ask.
I am struggling with a very similar problem.
I am currently tapering from 25 grams, down to 0, so I can discontinue my addiction to Kratom.

There are specific ways one should taper an opioid.
My wife is actually helping me with this. She is a nurse who works in a detox facility, and has helped other people with the same problem.

OP, you may get lucky and be able to discontinue Kratom without much problem. I HIGHLY doubt it considering your use.
Go without for 2 days (if you can) and see what happens, your body will tell you.
Either continue your spiral into addiction and depression, or MAN UP and do something about it!
You do have to face it eventually you know, and the longer you wait; the worse it will be.

If you would like help I will be around
Be well : )
 
I am super glad I didn't go the other route I had for myself, which was hard opioid addiction in the form of IV dilaudid. THAT was a good decision. all the same, I'm extremely glad I finally got off the daily kratom train. It drains your adrenal systems,
makes you lack energy and contributes to depression. I enjoy it, but super sparingly. just my .02. I went from 30g - > 0 over a few months, the last bit i supplemented... pretty heavily, with NMDA antagonists. seemed to really take the edge off.
 
Sounds like you did a taper?
Did that work well for you?

Yes! Kratom is far weaker than dilauded, and a much better avenue. Kratom really is a great alternative to narcotic pain medication and even opiate addiction.

Although I don't think it's suitable for general motivation and depression issues. Unfortunately the industry targets these types of people, and then people begin to have problems because they didn't really know what they were getting themselves into.

I actually believed it was a safe alternative to coffee once. And then I got hooked.

I think Kratom should remain legal. It has a purpose and can be useful.
But I also think the industry needs to be more honest, and allow more transparency with their marketing.

Glad it worked out for you CDIN.
I'm not familiar with NMDA antagonists, any insight? It sounds like you did a slow taper, what was that like for you?
 
Shatterpoint, man its crazy how similar our situations are, even right now i havent been on here in a few days and were doing the same thing im tapering down to 0 and my significant other is helping me too.... And your right if i discontinue the krat i get sick so yeah its going to be hard it makes me feel good knowing i got someone to push me to quit tho shatterpoint you give me hope.
 
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