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Dissociatives [Ketamine Subthread] Different Brands

can u tell the difference from taste etc?
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Nah.

Isomers are essential different versions of the same molecule. The classic example is hands, both your hands are essentially he same, yes? They would taste the same should you decide to eat them. If you lay one hand atop the other though, the fingers and thumb will be in reverse positions to each other - they are not super-imposable. Now imagine a joystick with a right hand specific grip. You can probably use the joystick with your left hand, but it won't be as comfortable or as effective as with your right, which fits the grip better.

If your getting it as a powder, I can't really suggest any way of telling without analytical equipment. The effects are really different however, pure S isomer is so much more euphoric, so much stronger and a lot more visual in my experience. The standard stuff I get is racemic - pure S isomer is a big, big treat.
 
^That thread just has reports of what people think "feels" like s-ketamine. I've used ketamine sold as s-ketamine, from a famously reliable long established vendor and didn't notice a huge difference to be honest. It seemed a little more lucid and euphoric, but less anesthetizing. I tried combining it with psilocin and the synergy actually seemed reduced compared to racemic.

I've read that creating a single isomer version of ketamine is an involved and relatively expensive process. Therefore, there is little reason to suspect any company would bother to go through with it without advertising the fact that they went to the trouble e.g. Ketanest S. People's feelings about how they think different brands isomer ratios stand are going to be extraordinarily unreliable. Once people get it in their heads that something is a certain way it's going to color their experience.

Again, if you're going to bother with all the extra work and cost of making and s-isomer, why not advertise it? The ketanest brand is actually called Ketanest S, and that S part is trademarked because it's a selling point. Because of this, I doubt there's many, if any, other s-isomer only brands. Subjective differences between the other brands owe to concentration differences and possibly the presence or absence of a psychoactive preservative. The rest, that is most of it, is fantasy and rumor concocted by users and dealers fetishizing particular brands to sell them or because they had a special experience with one and attribute it to the ketamine brand (something salient and identifiable) instead of to their own ineffable physiological and subconscious states, which are the true causes of the the perceived differences.

So, it's unlikely that we need a table. Ketanest S is probably the ONLY s-isomer only brand. People get a certain brand and use it over a period of their life defined by certain psychological or physiological states, and then conflate the consistency of the effects owing to those states over that time with the use of that particular brand during the same time.
 
Amberthefrog said:
Nah.

Isomers are essential different versions of the same molecule. The classic example is hands, both your hands are essentially he same, yes? They would taste the same should you decide to eat them. If you lay one hand atop the other though, the fingers and thumb will be in reverse positions to each other - they are not super-imposable. Now imagine a joystick with a right hand specific grip. You can probably use the joystick with your left hand, but it won't be as comfortable or as effective as with your right, which fits the grip better.

If your getting it as a powder, I can't really suggest any way of telling without analytical equipment. The effects are really different however, pure S isomer is so much more euphoric, so much stronger and a lot more visual in my experience. The standard stuff I get is racemic - pure S isomer is a big, big treat.
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Cheers! I kind of understand now lol, alot better than i did. Sometimes the supply i get, the effects are alot different from what i call 'normal ket' (im guessing R isomer). My 'normal ket' is really just a headfuck (dont get me wrong i enjoy it) which is quite short acting, however when i get the stronger stuff, i know it is the strong stuff as soon as i've consumed it (i feel energy shifts in my feet) and this kind seems to be much longer acting.

I wish i could understand more about ketamine.
 
I really don't want to say you can tell by the look of crystals what isomer you have or if it's racemic but nonetheless I have had definite pure isomers, both of them separate, and racemic and S-ketamine looked like tiny cubes (although eroded/rounded), R-ketamine looked like sharp shards and racemic looked like rods that could be jagged but sometimes quite intact.

Again: I am not saying you can look at your crystals and determine what you have by this but there is a difference in appearance IMO, there is a difference if you look and compare after knowing and looking before knowing!

Besides looking at these pictures below also check the Ketamine Isomer Subthread, to be found through the Psychedelic Index of PD --> Big & Dandy Ketamine Thread --> Link in the OP

This is what I would call rods:

Ketamine.png


And here on the right I would say those crystals are blunt and cubed if not a little rounded, while on the left they are significantly jagged - admittedly the R-isomer looks the most erratic but the difference is best seen in contrast to the much less abrasive looking racemic and S:

file.php
 
Yeah, unless you're getting sealed vials of Ketanest S or you had a lab custom synth you a pure isomer version there's not even a semi-reliable way to be sure. The quality of the effects will vary quite a bit at different times such that verified R/S could sometimes feel more like how you remember verified pure S feeling, and vice versa (maybe you ate something that effected its metabolism, or you're jittery from caffeine, or in love -- the list is endless). I would expect to pay more for pure S, at least most of the time, since the higher manufacturing cost would be passed onto customers, but that's at best a weak indicator. That's not much help but that's just the reality of it.
 
Thanks for posting that, Sol. It sort of corroborates my theory that racemic K is ideal for both medicine and recreation as far as I'm concerned.

The best powdered Ketamine I had was distinctively rod-shaped, and the best vials I had were known to be racemic.

I do support making a chart of the brand-names with DEFINITIVE (rather than subjective) isomer designations.

One thing that has been up in the air recently is Agrovet. I've had people tell me that it is 100% R, and I had others tell me that it is 100% S, and yet most seem to think that it is just racemic. Anyone know anything here?
 
imonfire said:
i never get to see which kind/brand of k i get as i get it bagged in crystal form from my supplier, however i definately notice a difference in effetcs from time to time

could someone please explain to me in simple terms about this s/r insomer as im clueless

can u tell the difference from taste etc?
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psychological effects? or any other effect?
the psychological effects are most likely from a different mind-set each time you use ketamine.
 
physical effects mate, like energy shifts in my body (as if someone is massaging me), it usually starts at my feet, however you are probably right in that its different every time you use it, i wish i could explain myself better lol
 
The Cheminova dries up like snowflakes, in a sense rodish like but when all done and scraped its cubish. But I also notice when double boiling it at different temperatures it gets different results of the crystals, sometimes my friend seems to heat it up to fast and feels weaker then normal. Any of you out there tried cheminova, out of the kays Ive done its the strongest, most psychedelic and can knock you on your feet. Would that be the S isomer, because Im confused on what wiki says and what other ppl on here say.


Solipsis said:
I really don't want to say you can tell by the look of crystals what isomer you have or if it's racemic but nonetheless I have had definite pure isomers, both of them separate, and racemic and S-ketamine looked like tiny cubes (although eroded/rounded), R-ketamine looked like sharp shards and racemic looked like rods that could be jagged but sometimes quite intact.

Again: I am not saying you can look at your crystals and determine what you have by this but there is a difference in appearance IMO, there is a difference if you look and compare after knowing and looking before knowing!

Besides looking at these pictures below also check the Ketamine Isomer Subthread, to be found through the Psychedelic Index of PD --> Big & Dandy Ketamine Thread --> Link in the OP

This is what I would call rods:

Ketamine.png


And here on the right I would say those crystals are blunt and cubed if not a little rounded, while on the left they are significantly jagged - admittedly the R-isomer looks the most erratic but the difference is best seen in contrast to the much less abrasive looking racemic and S:

file.php
Click to expand...
 
hmm, if comparing those 2 pics/types with the info provided, i'd say Rotex Medica K is R isomer. Always it ended up closer to that, and more powdery after cooking/drying on a plate.

anyone got tips on cooking the bottle itself?
 
heheh pretty amazing how quickly these ketamine isomer threads start to turn into subjective contradictory confusion. They are pretty hilarious to read through, seems like both R, S, and racemic Ketamine run the whole spectrum of effects. I've long read on here people surmising as to which brands of K contain racemic and which contain just S and I've got to ape what psoodonym said above.....that from what I've seen, read, and understood, Ketanest-S is the ONLY brand of straight S-Ketamine on the market. (in a sealed pharmaceutical preparation). And for all of the reasons psood listed.
I recently spent another year in India, and have been a devoted K tourist the world round for the past 15 years. Have seen absolutely no evidence of S-Ketamine in vials besides Ketanest-S. (repeated again for clarity ;D )
 
Heh heh, yeah, that didn't take long -- just human nature on parade. I'll also mention that the size of crystals can vary depending on factors totally independent of what isomer of ketamine is in a solution e.g. the rate at which they formed. No matter how nice or convenient it would be to be able to predict subjective experience from the salient features of a chemical, it simply cannot be done reliably in most cases. It's really easy to rip us off, and we readily delude ourselves so we're consistent with our often ignorant and wishful expectations. Critical appraisals tend to reduce our sense of control, increasing stress, and that's why they can be made over and over and they'll continue to go in one ear and out the other.
 
amanitadine said:
heheh pretty amazing how quickly these ketamine isomer threads start to turn into subjective contradictory confusion. They are pretty hilarious to read through, seems like both R, S, and racemic Ketamine run the whole spectrum of effects. I've long read on here people surmising as to which brands of K contain racemic and which contain just S and I've got to ape what psoodonym said above.....that from what I've seen, read, and understood, Ketanest-S is the ONLY brand of straight S-Ketamine on the market. (in a sealed pharmaceutical preparation). And for all of the reasons psood listed.
I recently spent another year in India, and have been a devoted K tourist the world round for the past 15 years. Have seen absolutely no evidence of S-Ketamine in vials besides Ketanest-S. (repeated again for clarity ;D )
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Hehe, makes a lot of sense actually :).

One thing I don't get is why some vials are reportedly "R-only". To my understanding, pharma companies made the more difficult to produce Ketanest-S out of demand for something with less side-effects for human use.

If producing a superior product necessarily means getting rid of the R-isomer, and if Animals haven't expressed an interest in the R-isomer, then it seems to me that the only people who have any interest whatsoever in it are the small fraction of K-users who are curious.

As such, I cannot conceive of any pharma brand being "R-Only".
 
^Was thinking the same thing. R-isomer must be a custom synth made at the behest of drug nerds if it's out there.
 
Some good posts in here. On second thought, making unsubstantiated claims about does seem a bit silly :\
 
In my extensive experience, brand-name reports of ketamine steroisomer efficacy are 89.73% bullshit. Where did you think I was going with that? Come on. Most of us are talking out of our asses here; let's be honest.

If you really want me opinion (which is based almost entirely on heresay reinforced by biased personal experience) Ketavan, which is supposedly primarily S-isomer, is quite nice (though not as far as I know available in Mexico).

I don't mean any offense; I just don't want anyone to take this kind of thread too seriously. For what it's worth, I also like to BS about the quality of my k.
 
Static_Color said:
Any info on Rotex Medica 50mg/ml 10ml bottles? From Germany
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Let me tell you, Rotex Medica is THE BEST KETAMINE on the planet, bar none. I had the 100mg/ml from them and I like to IM it and I thought I was never going to come back to normal from the trip. I felt out of my body, standing behind myself watching myself walk. I felt that I had come out of my body, went back into it and came out again. Thats the part I was kinda scared about, that I would not return to my body after being "out of it" twice. At certain points I felt I just "existed" in the galaxy as a speck in it and then while listening to my vocal trance music, I felt and endless loop of a pleasure ride with my eyes closed. No other keamine has done this to me this way. I had 4 bottles of it. Rotex is both super analagesic and super clean k-hole trips. You gotta let me know how your trip went on it!!
 
Personally was used to the kickass green label dutch Alfasan 100mg/ml Ketamine.
Best K ive ever tried. period!

But recently this has been impossible to source.

So we have sourced some Kepro ketamine also dutch but there are a few problems :

1) smell : the liquid has some kinda smell
2) texture gets gooey when cooked, sorta like heavily cut coke and the smell remains.
* tried cooking slow method and it helps a lot but above problems still remain :(
3) effects : different than alfasan, seems more sedative, defienatly less psycoactive and it burns a hellava lot more!!

does anyone know this particular brand? or has any idea why these major differances exist?

I know its probably gonna come down to the preservative used(the smell!!) but im not 100% sure
so id like to know how to deal with that, if at all possible because my alfasan supply has stopped.

still the big differance in effects is still worrying.

both products are sealed vials and made in holland for vet use.

p.s. yes i did do a side by side cook and usage test as i still had some leftover alfasan. differances are very apparent.

any help would be great guys :)
 
I don't know. I did some kitty manufactured in France(don't recall the name though) that a friend had acquired, and I have

never been more screwed and buried from just one line, than countless binges of the ketaset-had me on the floor drooling on myself.
 
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