Bupe I'm terrified of taking Subox for maintenance. Please tell me what it's really like.

[rock1970]

Thanks for the good advice. I've managed to cut down to about 120mg a day of Hydrocodone, and I still feel mild withdrawals at that level. I just can't keep doing this to myself or my family, I know I will die if I don't stop.

I am doing therapy in addition to the MAT option, but methadone isn't an option for me with the rules of having to go to a clinic every day.

I want OFF this stuff. I want to do the Sublicade shot and do the 3 month taper and be done. I just don't know if I can deal with the uncertainty or the depression.. I feel so hopeless and desperate that I'm out of options.

Very interesting. Got to love those patents. Thanks for the info!

Hello AddictedAndHatingit,

I hope this is the appropriate reply area, I am still learning the protocol to reply it seems. Nonetheless, it took me 10 months to feel good again, after having to go CT due to losing medical, during my treatment, with Subox. I went though Effexor WD and Subox WD, in tandem. Truth be told, I do not remember much about it at all, so I must have suffered trauma, due to the emotional part, for periods of the 10 months, and must have buried most of it. I do recall the pain, mentally, and only started to come out of it, after being prescribed Paxil and Wellbutrin, which I know I am now sadly dependent on, after research, and somewhat in the same boat, again.

It was about 3 months of starting the Paxil/Wellbutrin, I think, that I finally became interested in things again, and a few months more to be able to look for work again etc... I now want to stop the Paxil and Wellbutrin, but I am afraid of the emotional horrors again. I know my situation is unique to me, but it could be one example of a worst case scenario? I hope to find a way, to begin a taper, (from Paxil and WB) but it seems impossible without mental discomfort, so I may just ride it out and remain on them, so I can live my life. It is just knowing that my body and mind are now dependent on them. CHAINS. I know it, due to being out for a day or so, and the zaps and anxiety started. I got scared, and ordered a refill. I failed to truly understand the meds, so I am again, the fool, in my mind. But they have stabilized me. My mistake for trusting doctors, and my ignorance of truly NOT looking at the Meds, in terms of dependency of the meds. I honestly do not remember being told dependency is possible, with Paxil or WB. I may have been warned about them, but not how a person should be. Meds are powerful with physical dependencies in each, I feel, or I may have a strange disorder to any medication, that makes me dependent on them. Could be simply the morning ritual of taking them for a few years, and looking at any discomfort as WD's? I do not know, and my mind is tired of trying to figure it out. Just want peace, so I may just have to resign myself to staying put. Good luck my friend. Hang in there.

 

[Keif' Richards]

Drug use and addiction and the legal system is one of mankind's greatest fuckups.

So many people have the delusion that supply/demand, economics or the law are the problem. If they could use as they wanted without these fears, there would be no problems.

For man's entire history, addiction was a personal thing. There are penalties in life far worse than jail. There is the complete loss of one's soul.

I guess what I'm saying is that the legal system creates this false belief in where a person's problem lies. It is their own life they are choosing to throw away. You can go a lifetime avoiding the law deftly, only to realize you were your own oppressor.

 

[vlzinspace]

No. Vaping doesnt replace smoking. Bupe doesnt replace oxy, it just make the inevitable worse. Just go to a detox and die for 5 or 6 days. Its what it comes down to if you are ever to be rid of opioids.

 

[CfZrx]

2 mg doses give the strongest high because you have less bupe around to block the norbupe

I wonder if this holds true each time someone doses 2mg throughout the day? Like if you take 2 mg every 4 hours while awake.

 

[Thatchick]

I had taken it without proper knowledge and became hooked on it for about 2 years.

The withdrawal from this is extremely hellish and last a very, very long time. And it is true. My mother takes the strips and her dental health has been degrading rather quickly to the point where she believes she may need dentures.

There are other pill forms that may be available to you and if they are I would suggest that route, however I am not a medical professional. I am only speaking on personal experience.

I believe they're called subtex. If you can manage to get those that will be better for your dental from what I've researched. But please be aware that a slow taper will be needed to discontinue.

I managed to taper myself long ago because the doctor at the time was pushing this stuff. I never needed it in the first place but for reasons Iwish not to talk about I found myself dependent on them and let me tell you, it's better than being hooked on pills but you will pay in the end.

Be strong, believe in yourself and that there are brighter days that you deserve. No gain without pain and sacrifice

Subutex normally is only given to pregnant woman, at least in Michigan. It's easy to abuse.

 

[MuertaMan]

Im a guy and I get subutex tablets its really a matter of if you have a dickhead dr or not there is nothing preventing them prescribing it most just don't want to. Headache and stomach ache is all Ive said to get it its worth a shot it doesn't hurt to ask you may find they give it to you. My dr works for Rosecrance too and is an "addiction specialist" which made me think he'd never give me subutex but he didn't care at all and was ok with it.

 

[Keif' Richards]

I wonder if this holds true each time someone doses 2mg throughout the day? Like if you take 2 mg every 4 hours while awake.

Probably not. The fact that Buprenorphine (Subutex/Suboxone) is so long-lasting means these dosages are likely going to accumulate over time. I think if you were taking doses like say, 0.2mg-0.3m this cumulative effect would be negated somewhat due to the smaller dosage. The aforementioned would be a common dose for Buprenorphine as an analgesic (Buprenex).

Im a guy and I get subutex tablets its really a matter of if you have a dickhead dr or not there is nothing preventing them prescribing it most just don't want to. Headache and stomach ache is all Ive said to get it its worth a shot it doesn't hurt to ask you may find they give it to you. My dr works for Rosecrance too and is an "addiction specialist" which made me think he'd never give me subutex but he didn't care at all and was ok with it.

I'm a major proponent of "being a dickhead" to get what you need. If you're a pain patient, of course, don't rock the boat ever as it an easily tip over. If you're already identified as an addict, go for it. Flood them with paperwork and research and get second opinions.

 

[TheUltimateFixx]

OK opiates when used on the regular do absolutely mess with your dopamine function. The reason being, in very simplistic terms, that what your brain strives for is to maintain chemical equilibrium, and a drug-induced high represents an imbalance. If you constantly artificially over-stimulate this reward system, eventually your brain will downregulate its own production in response.
The good news is this process is self-reversing. The bad news is it takes on average anywhere from a year to 14 months of not using for your dopamine levels to re-adjust back to somewhere normal. That's to say you will experience depression when you haven't before ; and if you DO already suffer from this or any other mental health issue prior to your drug use, it will exacerbate it.

I had pre-existing major depression and felt absolutely fuck-awful coming off. I was on prolonged treatment with anti-depressants and anxiolytics afterwards. I would go for a medically supervised withdrawal process. Be clear from the outset that you do not want indefinite maintenance, but simply to stabilise and then taper off. (Substitution drugs were originally never intended to keep anyone on forever. They were supposed to ease you through withdrawal and the immediate aftereffects.) Discuss adequate medication for any mental illness.

 

[Bree-frog]

Hello BL crew.
First off, let me say thank you for this forum and to its users for their truthful and insightful information. I believe this place is a true treasure and many people have been helped through some crazy shit by this community.

I've been lurking for a while. Reading a lot about all kinds of different things.

The time has come for me to make some changes in life. And I need some insight from people who have been there. Not a doctor who has no actual life experience.

So about me: I have had a hydrocodone addiction since after surgery in 2016, but it never got bad, maybe 75 to 80 mg a day and that was very infrequent. In 2022 a friend gave me a 30 mg oxy and from there things have snowballed into a 300mg - 400mg a day habit.

I find myself extremely depressed if I do not take oxy and even taking hydro acts more like a withdrawal helper and I do not get high from it. My liver would shut down if I were to take enough hydrocodone to actually feel something.

I've successfully stopped taking oxy and I am down to about 100 mg a day of hydro occasionally I will touch 120mg. I'd be lying if I said I didn't want oxy every day though but I just can't keep it up because I can see where this is going and I will die from it.

I don't shoot or anything like that. I just chew things up and swallow them.

I reached out to my doctor and he sent me to an addiction specialist who then prescribed bupe, and since it is so easy to get I have a crazy amount of it. I have 2 mg without narcan in it. I have 8 mg with 2 mg narcan tabs and strips as well.

What is this going to really do to me? I saw the FDA recently put something out that said you're going to lose your teeth from this drug so I'm terrified. Any experiences that you guys have or advice or anything on how to be normal and stabilize and then hopefully get off of bupe too would be greatly appreciated.

To be honest, I relate to your story very much! You're not alone. I was in active addiction to oxy, percs, tabs, morphine, even to the point of cutting up fentanyl patches and chewing them up. I was addicted for over 15 years, I had tons of trauma from all the shit I endured growing up, molestation, rape, alcoholic dad although I love my dad still (rest in heaven Daddy) and i was trying to outrun my demons. It didn't work. But I was also scared of getting off the pain pills and onto subs. My doctor started me on Suboxone strips which gave me horrible migraines, so he switched me to Subutex. I've been clean ever since. From the other pills I mean. Honestly I was scared to death that it wouldn't do a thing for me, but for me? It saved my life. Not gonna lie, here I am 5 years later and still on them. But I'm at home, raising my daughter, married, and I'd rather be right here where I am than to be chasing my next fent patch, or perc. I don't get high, however they have actually helped me to live a normal fuckin life, I've dealt with my inner trauma/my demons instead of trying to run from them. I just look back and remember how bad those demons got to me after my high wore off. It's like all the pain would hit me ten times harder than before I took a pill/chewed a patch. Subutex makes me feel NORMAL, I've never really felt this way and actually wanted to do better, but I am now. Subs might not be for everyone. But they definitely saved my life. And I know I'm going to start tapering soon, but I'm trying to wait until I know I'm ready for sure to give it my all. To stay off the pain pills without being on my Subutex. I honestly think you should give it a go, if it doesn't work for you, be real, and be honest with the doctor and he'll suggest other things. But the Subutex and counseling saved me from me.

 

[TheBookBurner]

I've been on Subs for 13 years. About 5 years ago, I allowed family members to pressure me into going to rehab to ''get off the crutch.'' They tapered me off of it over the course of one week. Withdrawal lasted about 2 weeks and wasn't bad at all. What was bad for me, was the following 12 months that I barely got more than 2 or 3 hours of sleep per night and had extreme depression. Finally, I decided to get back on them because I was perfectly fine on them and they cost me nothing. I do not regret that decision. But getting off them was a joke especially after having come off of high doze benzos cold turkey, now THAT's the hardest thing I've ever put my mind and body through.

 

[MedicinalUser247]

Well... I don't know too much about Suboxone. Other than that, that I've seen my friend abuse the stuff. He would take out a table spoon, fill it with hot water and Suboxone, let it dissolve and than snort the liquid. In general you should try to taper off opioid's completely. There all just bad to use. Unless your in pain.

 

[rock1970]

OK opiates when used on the regular do absolutely mess with your dopamine function. The reason being, in very simplistic terms, that what your brain strives for is to maintain chemical equilibrium, and a drug-induced high represents an imbalance. If you constantly artificially over-stimulate this reward system, eventually your brain will downregulate its own production in response.
The good news is this process is self-reversing. The bad news is it takes on average anywhere from a year to 14 months of not using for your dopamine levels to re-adjust back to somewhere normal. That's to say you will experience depression when you haven't before ; and if you DO already suffer from this or any other mental health issue prior to your drug use, it will exacerbate it.

I had pre-existing major depression and felt absolutely fuck-awful coming off. I was on prolonged treatment with anti-depressants and anxiolytics afterwards. I would go for a medically supervised withdrawal process. Be clear from the outset that you do not want indefinite maintenance, but simply to stabilise and then taper off. (Substitution drugs were originally never intended to keep anyone on forever. They were supposed to ease you through withdrawal and the immediate aftereffects.) Discuss adequate medication for any mental illness.

Very on point. Sad truth is the stabilizing drugs are just as addictive. Mental illness develops because of them. Once the major physical WD symptoms taper, the mental illness begins. Most of this is by design. The powers that be, AMA, government etc...they knew what would take place. Profits mean more than the health of the people. There is no money in stable society. They push the diagnosis of kids to get them started, then it is a lifelong struggle. Parents need to avoid doctors in most cases. Kids need to be allowed to simply develop, and parental guidance and true discipline must be followed. Kids are affected due to home life in most cases. Kids today have it much worse due to social media as well. It's brutal today. They get info much earlier and more often than not, it's bullshit. Kids are following idiots, and moronic entertainers. Porn stars have more influence than parents today!! Lol!! Sad but true. Just look at the number of followers the Kardashians have. Kids are now "followers", so that should sum it up. Homeschooling and avoid giving kids a phone until they are 16!! Keep your kids away from the shit, if possible. Hell, tech people do not even let their kids use them!! Wake up folks!! Read books to your kids!! Let them development normally over time. Drugs and the internet are not the answer. They are the problem, in concert with lack of parental guidance. Get your home in order, keep the family together!! Stay away from woke ideology, and politics in general. Expose your children to 60's motown and classic Rock from the 70's. We had it right for the most part back in the day, except for some race issues, but those died as well over time for the most part. Do not believe the lies, just use your eyes!! Real world encounters each day, show you racism is rare. Respect yourself, and treat others with respect. Stay off the pills to truly prevent the ills! Be better parents, and alot of this goes away. Drugs destroy people. Please wake up to the truth. I've been through it all!!!! I have truly searched within myself, and I want to truly help. Yes, we may not agree on all things, but dialog leads to understanding and often solutions. Be safe all. Let's help each other, chiefly the younger generation.

 

[Opana313]

I would like to think that low dose subs will/could help OP's depression while tapering the wellbutrin or other anti depressants....fuck them all to hell. I've heard Effexor to be the absolute worst thing to withdrawal from but I imagine long term methadone, bupe, benzos(deadly if in WD) or possibly extremely high dose oxy would probably be just as long and debilitating.
All I'm saying is anytime I went to a dr to try to get xanax for my damn anxiety, they always try to push anti-depressants and I give them hell about it. I remember one time I was trying to get on xanax as they had worked for me in the past, and he just wouldn't budge, wanted me on SNRI's and it surprised him that I even knew what that meant(serotonin noreprinephrine re-uptake inhibitor), sp?) then proceeded to bullshit me and I doubled down explaining that YES I know what this does, and the hell that comes from it, and that YES in my early drunken teen years I use to gobble down bars and black out so I know of the addiction potential of said xanax and all I am trying to do is get a prescription where I only take it when anxiety is at it's worse or panic attacks. . "Now will you stop and give me what I am asking? I ALREADY know it will be the low dose .5 peaches with no refill so come the fuck on and either help me get what I am asking, or we can continue to go back and forth."
He finally came back and gave me the signed paper for TWELVE .5mg alprazolam...just 12 no refill and basically do not come back is what he told me, totally fucked up..in all honesty I knew it would be peaches and I wanted to work my way up to being prescribed 1mg(just works much better for me than gobbling down a bars worth of peaches.)

It's a shitty game we have to endure with these dr's or psychiatrists..
Btw still not prescribed ANYTHING. Yep that's right gotta take my chances on the street for my opioid addiction and seriously if I had benzos prescribed I probably wouldn't even be addicted to opioids but maybe that's a good thing as I am quite the bar popper, I walk around straight with 2 or even 3 bars in me, so lately been just taking kpins 2mg therapeutically for anxiety..since bars I just want to get obliterated, so I see the warning signs but still either way I'm not addicted to benzos and have never had benzo WD, only opioids.

Sorry if I got off topic but fuck all anti-depressants.(unless you are in dire, suicidal situations). Suboxone works great but I need to continue to do things better next time, like taper a shitty opioid and use low dose subs just to help with the short period of WD..rather than using it daily forever.

 

[rock1970]

I would like to think that low dose subs will/could help OP's depression while tapering the wellbutrin or other anti depressants....fuck them all to hell. I've heard Effexor to be the absolute worst thing to withdrawal from but I imagine long term methadone, bupe, benzos(deadly if in WD) or possibly extremely high dose oxy would probably be just as long and debilitating.
All I'm saying is anytime I went to a dr to try to get xanax for my damn anxiety, they always try to push anti-depressants and I give them hell about it. I remember one time I was trying to get on xanax as they had worked for me in the past, and he just wouldn't budge, wanted me on SNRI's and it surprised him that I even knew what that meant(serotonin noreprinephrine re-uptake inhibitor), sp?) then proceeded to bullshit me and I doubled down explaining that YES I know what this does, and the hell that comes from it, and that YES in my early drunken teen years I use to gobble down bars and black out so I know of the addiction potential of said xanax and all I am trying to do is get a prescription where I only take it when anxiety is at it's worse or panic attacks. . "Now will you stop and give me what I am asking? I ALREADY know it will be the low dose .5 peaches with no refill so come the fuck on and either help me get what I am asking, or we can continue to go back and forth."
He finally came back and gave me the signed paper for TWELVE .5mg alprazolam...just 12 no refill and basically do not come back is what he told me, totally fucked up..in all honesty I knew it would be peaches and I wanted to work my way up to being prescribed 1mg(just works much better for me than gobbling down a bars worth of peaches.)

It's a shitty game we have to endure with these dr's or psychiatrists..
Btw still not prescribed ANYTHING. Yep that's right gotta take my chances on the street for my opioid addiction and seriously if I had benzos prescribed I probably wouldn't even be addicted to opioids but maybe that's a good thing as I am quite the bar popper, I walk around straight with 2 or even 3 bars in me, so lately been just taking kpins 2mg therapeutically for anxiety..since bars I just want to get obliterated, so I see the warning signs but still either way I'm not addicted to benzos and have never had benzo WD, only opioids.

Sorry if I got off topic but fuck all anti-depressants.(unless you are in dire, suicidal situations). Suboxone works great but I need to continue to do things better next time, like taper a shitty opioid and use low dose subs just to help with the short period of WD..rather than using it daily

 

[SHANN0N]

My advise, stay far away from it. They will tell you withdrawal is mild or even non existent with a taper. That are lying to you. I was on subs for nearly 5 years, when I was forced to come off of it, it took 4 months of withdrawal before I felt normal and had energy to do just about anything at all. Then after 6 months of being off it, I experienced post withdrawal symptoms and got sick all over again for another week. It was a nightmare. It happened to be over 10 years ago but I’ll never forget how bad it actually was. Hope this helps. Good luck.

 

[rustbeltgoldenchild]

I'm not a doctor I'm simply a guy who went to rehab back in 2015 when he was 19 for heroin. The way I ended up on the shit is pretty similar to your story.

I was perscribed percs in 7th grade for kidney stones. And since it was still pre opiod crisis or w/e it was pretty easy to get refills or scripts for other issues. So before I say anything I'm happy that you are nipping it in the bud now. Don't be too in your head about "well it's not fent." "It could be so much worse".

Everyone's struggles with substance abuse is different and that kind of thinking can turn into "well its been a few years and I've been doing well. Maybe I'll grab an oxy my friend said he had some. It's not like I had a fent problem" getting off my soap box now.

Suboxone can be a godsend for some people. I've seen it first hand. The thing is for every person it helps it seems to fuck over someone else. Like I said I'm not a doctor but it seems the best results are when it's used short term and not for long term maintenance. My only experience with it outside of buying it from people to get high off it or to keep me from getting dope sick was when I was in detox in rehab.

I think it was a week or two I got it like 2 or 3 times a day along with other common detox meds. They started me at the highest dose then almost immediately started the taper process. And it worked out great for me. Detox still sucked like mf but I wasn't dope sick lol.

My point is it seems in my experience that suboxone assisted cessation (or w/e the medical term is lol) is best when used short term not long term maintenance. My experience is way shorter than an out of rehab setting so keep that mind. Just be honest with your doctors and your loved ones. Ask for a timeline and don't be afraid to tell someone "hey this isn't working what can we do differently?".

Best of luck getting off opis you're already light-years ahead of most by recognizing the signs that you have a problem early on.

I'm out of my element with medically assisted detox outside of rehab so idk if this is kosher but ask for methocarbonol and hydroxyzine. Those were the only other non otc that I was given for opi detox.

The methocarbonol helps with muscle aches and Charlie houses and the hydroxyzine is like bennydryls cooler older brother. I'm sure having access to those two meds made the rapid tapering easier to deal with.




LOL had no idea this thread was from March .OP hasn't been on since April. Oh

 

[Juicewrldfan]

Idk. I’ve been using gf and on sub MAT for the past 10 years with mostly I was on maintenance during that time. I’d stay on for a couple years come off back and forth like that and I have to say I never really experienced any severe withdrawls

 

[SHANN0N]

Idk. I’ve been using gf and on sub MAT for the past 10 years with mostly I was on maintenance during that time. I’d stay on for a couple years come off back and forth like that and I have to say I never really experienced any severe withdrawls

Thanks for your reply, I don’t want to deter anyone from getting on subs if you are doing hard drugs like heroin or fentanyl. In that case subs will keep you alive. But if you are experiencing mild withdrawal symptoms, you’re thinking about going on subs in my opinion, it was not beneficial long-term. Also, I would like to add the withdrawal symptoms were not severe, they were mild to moderate. The problem was that they were never ending. It seemed, but I was also on it long term, so that could’ve played a big part as it tends to build up in your system.

 

[Borax]

Im hearing alot of negatives but it beats methadone and it beats dope. Ive taken it every other day for 2 years until about 3 weeks ago and havent once experienced withdrawals, im not sure if Im just a freak of nature or what but everybody’s different, dont let others bad experiences stop you. Suboxone saves lives and its nearly impossible to OD on it. If you decide against it, low dose loperamide (15-20mg), kratom and lowdose dxm (60-90mg) is very affective for maintenance, I also usually take those 3 with selank, chinese corydalis extract and cats claw extract for maximum benefits. Voacanga Africana is something you may be interested in as a subxoxone alternative, it works on KOR receptors and contains a chemical similar to ibogaine! Never tried it myself but Id most certainly add that to my maintenance stack if it werent
so pricey.

 

[Nas47]

better take it,than use street shit...ofcourse best option is may be if u can quit everything and live healthy life,but lot of guys are on fent and other strong shit....so for them is better to stabilize on it....later start to tapper...lowewr the dose-better....safe stuff-difficult to od on this using normal(not iv route) and not mixing it with lot of other stuff.useful for moderate to strong pain too....at least in the beginning.lack of usual high of other narc.painkillers.