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I'ld like to hear from anyone who uses an opioid to fight depression.

I ve used heroin first and oxycodone later as both an anti depressive and as a self medication for anxiety on and off for the last 17 years.

I don t do H anymore cos now I live in a country ( Brazil) where the thing basically does not exist and oxys mostly because I ve lost my plug and because opioids are great but having sex with my wife is even better.
I still consider opioids a better alternative to benzos and SSRI´s and other shit, still...now that I ve been clean for a while I think that they give u something with a hand and steal u something with the other.with oxys my tolerance skyrocketed quickly, to the point that with 300 mgs I was not feeling good, I was feeling not bad. My libido was basically gone along with my creativity etc.
Not to mention that shit can happen, hence during and after w-ds my anxiety and depression was even worse ( I think that´s the point that @Snafu in the Void was trying to make) hence....
So to sum up I think that short term strong opioids can work for anxiety & or depression, but long term we cannot rely on them to treat our mental issues unless they are the only alternative to suicide.
Kratom is a decent alternative to me, nothing as the real deal but "opiate like" enough to help with anxiety and depression without the crazy shit that comes with "real" opioids.
I wouldn't recommend anyone to start using an opiate to deal with depression. I know I'll still be depressed, no matter what I take. After I take hydrocodone, I feel a little better for a little while. I don't believe that stopping my use of hydrocodone would make my life better. I don't think anyone is in a position to say that it would. I don't think anyone is that All-Knowing.
 





To @TheUltimateFixx - Thanks very much for discussing your experience. We have something in common. I also was put on amitriptyline way, way back . . . when it was a first-line treatment, which it no longer is. Doctors now avoid it like the plague. (Of course, the patent ran out long ago, and the stuff is cheap as crap. Big Pharma is pushing the newer, way, way more expensive stuff. Hmmm. I wonder if that influences MDs.) Yes, amitriptyline comes with prominent side effects that doctors genuinely want to steer away from. The biggest worry is cardiac dysrhythmias. It caused me severe constipation, which may be why I get recurrent diverticulitis. Everything in life extracts a price.

For me, amitriptyline was a miracle. It kicked in way before they tell you to expect it to. It didn't banish depression by no means, but it made me function way more successfully. I kept dropping out of school and not holding down jobs. On amitriptyline, I finished college and could hold down a job. It improved my awful insomnia. Once my life got so much better, I started weening off it, repeatedly. The result was never good. One MD told me to only drop it 5 mg per month. I did that. I stayed off for a number of months. The result was not good. I know all about "discontinuation syndrome." I went through it, determined to come out on the other side. I did. I always had depressive episodes - with or without amitriptyline. They don't last as long as yours. They're much shorter, but often severe. While I was off the amiyriptyline, it took me longer to pull out of an episode. Insomnia returned. I wouldn't have been able to hold down a job.

Sorry to ramble on so much. MDs tried me on every psych drug you can name. They did zilch. Only amitriptyline impacts my life. Even with it, I still deal with chronically recurring depressive episodes. I take 50 mg each evening. (Taking more never improved my response.) I could get by on 40 mg, but not as good. Doctors are surprised I get so much out of a modest dose. But it's no cure.

I appreciate the validity of what you describe as your lived experience. Mine is just very different. I expect to take amitriptyline till I die. Not just to avoid the difficulty of getting off it, but because it's been proven to me that I'm better off on it.

"Better off" is a long way from being well, which I will never be. Indomethacin was great for my physical pain. But I developed bleeding ulcers, so I can never take that again. Hydrocodone, like you said, kicks in immediately. Physically and mentally, I feel better after taking some. I wish I could take a lot more

To - @Staring into the Abyss - I was on so many psych drugs, it's hard to remember. Outside of amitriptyline, they were all useless. (And some were extremely expensive, which I was able to get funding for.) I'm sorry you're in so much distress and have no medication that ameliorates it, even somewhat. I'm sorry you've been driven to alcohol because that also causes problems. Many years ago, I tried drinking for relief. I found it very good - short term - for stress and anxiety. It is recognized as an analgesic, so I'm not surprised, if it affords you pain relief. But I found it useless for depression. Now and then, I used alcohol for insomnia, but it wasn't too good for that either. So I pretty much gave up on it.

Thanks for trying to understand. I hope you have some rest tonight. I wish we all had better answers.
Amitryptiline was the only anti-depressant that ever worked for me at all. SSRIs had what's called a paradoxical effect, in that they made me actively suicidal.

I never had heart problems from it. The main side-effects I got was constipation and loss of libido, so essentially the same as opiates but with far less pay-off.
 
I don't think anyone is in a position to say that it would.
well you are in this position, for instance. Are opioids affecting or improving your quality of life? Only you and maybe the people around you know the answer. But what´s cool about BL is that in any case you ll find support, whether you want to stop or to use in a safer way, so welcome!
 
Amitryptiline was the only anti-depressant that ever worked for me at all. SSRIs had what's called a paradoxical effect, in that they made me actively suicidal.

I never had heart problems from it. The main side-effects I got was constipation and loss of libido, so essentially the same as opiates but with far less pay-off.
What you say reinforces my belief that amitriptyline is in a whole other class than all the other categories of antidepressant. I'm glad you survived your experiences with the SSRIs. Taking MiraLAX every day eliminated my problem with constipation. Anyone taking an opiate should know about it. I believe you're better off not taking amitriptyline, if you're able to be free of depression for spells of time. It sounds like you have intervals where you really can be okay without an antidepressant. That's a healthier way to live. I could never see where amitriptyline had any recreational benefit. One crazy shrink told me it had a high "street value." That sounded nuts to me. For sure, there's not much pay-off.
 
I'm trying to find a way to feel better without using up my tablets too soon
have u ever tried Kratom? as I ve said it s nothing like the "real thing" but it really helps with w-d and depression.At least it worked for me (along with the odd benzo and loperamide) when I was really in a bad shape
 
well you are in this position, for instance. Are opioids affecting or improving your quality of life? Only you and maybe the people around you know the answer. But what´s cool about BL is that in any case you ll find support, whether you want to stop or to use in a safer way, so welcome!
I've seen no evidence that opioids are detracting from my quality of life. I feel better for a few hours when I take Vicodin. I'm able to be more physically active. That is important for anyone dogged by depression. People around me - when there are any - only know what I tell them. What I take isn't enough to caused any altered behavior. It doesn't make my depression "infinitely worse." That's one of the benefits of being a low-level user. My depression is bad enough all by itself.

Now, it is true that I can make myself feel really lousy by using up my supply ahead of schedule and ending up spending some days in withdrawal. I'm strongly motivated to avoid that. It seldom happens. I don't use hydrocodone in a way that is dangerous . . . unless someday I decide to eat the whole vial, as soon as I get it, to escape the burden of living. I'ld be afraid to do that. Overdosing can go real bad in a number of ways. It's not controllable. A person might throw up half of what was ingested and wind up only half-dead and badly impaired. I wouldn't want that.
 
have u ever tried Kratom? as I ve said it s nothing like the "real thing" but it really helps with w-d and depression.At least it worked for me (along with the odd benzo and loperamide) when I was really in a bad shape
No, I never have tried that. I'ld worry it might show up when I get urine-screened. Maybe it's not detectable. I wouldn't know.
 
No, I never have tried that. I'ld worry it might show up when I get urine-screened. Maybe it's not detectable. I wouldn't know.
Not sure about this, but if you are from the US it s legal plus even if it has an "opioid like" buzz but it s not "technically" an opioid, it s a tree in the coffee family https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitragyna_speciosa hence I don t think it s detectable anyway
 
Not sure about this, but if you are from the US it s legal plus even if it has an "opioid like" buzz but it s not "technically" an opioid, it s a tree in the coffee family https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitragyna_speciosa hence I don t think it s detectable anyway
Thanks for the link. I just looked it up. The article said it's not detectable in most drug screening tests. It also says it can be bought legally. I saw some web sites for online vendors. That's interesting.
 
Thanks for the link. I just looked it up. The article said it's not detectable in most drug screening tests. It also says it can be bought legally. I saw some web sites for online vendors. That's interesting.
you can find lots of useful infos about Kratom here on BL and also on Youtube. If used responsibly, it s a Godsend, it helped me when I was doing 300 mgs of oxys per day, helped people struggling with heroin addiction or chronic pain or mild depression etc. Of course it can be abused (some people here do 30 grams per day or more) but you seem a responsible user to me.
 
So now I don't belong on this website. I thought this was the "Welcome Forum." Well, I guess the moderators can throw me off, if they like.

I believe your original intention was to be helpful. Thanks for wanting to be helpful.

Where did he say you don’t belong here? Anyone and everyone belongs here, I’m sure Snafu agrees. He was saying you may not like the answers you receive, that appears to be a correct assumption.


I too use opiates for depression and anxiety moreso than pain, been doing so for nearly 2 decades. I’m under no illusions this is a double edged sword. While the acute effects indeed relieve me, long term this isn’t the best solution. If I could go back in time, I would’ve done things differently but what’s done is done.

-GC
 
Where did he say you don’t belong here? Anyone and everyone belongs here, I’m sure Snafu agrees. He was saying you may not like the answers you receive, that appears to be a correct assumption.


I too use opiates for depression and anxiety moreso than pain, been doing so for nearly 2 decades. I’m under no illusions this is a double edged sword. While the acute effects indeed relieve me, long term this isn’t the best solution. If I could go back in time, I would’ve done things differently but what’s done is done.

-GC
Yes, we are at where we're at. We face the question of "Where do we go from here?" You still have the option of discontinuing your use of opiates. So do I. Neither of us needs anyone to inform us that such an option exists. Someone wanting to be helpful might offer the opinion: "I think your life would be better, if you discontinued using opiates." I wouldn't resent anyone holding or offering that opinion. They might be right, or they might not be. We're all free to hold our opinions and to voice them on a venue like this. (Obviously, that is subject to some limitation.) I wouldn't resent anyone telling me opiates come with a downside . . . as you say - a double edged sword.

I do take issue with someone who doesn't know me from a hole in the wall telling me that I'm not "necessarily" experiencing "clinical depression." Actually, I am. I realize that it is important to not confuse and conflate the dysphoria/despondency/low mood that gets brought on by opioid withdrawal with depression not rooted in acute withdrawal syndrome. It's important because they're separate issues, although one can aggravate the other. Pointing that out is very valid. What's not very valid is to believe that one is All-Knowing. To say that taking 20 mg of hydrocodone a day is making a person's clinical depression "infinitely worse" is to claim to know everything. I think the suggestion was kind of preposterous. Sure - if I gobble up my tablets too quickly and wind up in withdrawal because it's too soon to get more, I'll be quite unhappy. I'll have restless leg syndrome or akathisia, which is m i s e r a b l e. If I didn't know it was temporary, I'ld throw myself off a cliff because that physical sensation becomes increasingly intolerable for me. That's why I space out my tablets, so I rarely run out before my next prescription is available. When I have left myself short, it was for only briefly. (Which is unpleasant enough.) I've been doing this for years. I've been allotted the same monthly supply for years. I'm not highly self-disciplined. The akathisia imposes a discipline that I've learned to respect.

It is a pretense of being All-Knowing for someone to say that me taking hydrocodone "is causing your depression." Snafu doesn't KNOW that. Of course, he can believe that, if he wants.
 
Yes, we are at where we're at. We face the question of "Where do we go from here?" You still have the option of discontinuing your use of opiates. So do I. Neither of us needs anyone to inform us that such an option exists. Someone wanting to be helpful might offer the opinion: "I think your life would be better, if you discontinued using opiates." I wouldn't resent anyone holding or offering that opinion. They might be right, or they might not be. We're all free to hold our opinions and to voice them on a venue like this. (Obviously, that is subject to some limitation.) I wouldn't resent anyone telling me opiates come with a downside . . . as you say - a double edged sword.

I do take issue with someone who doesn't know me from a hole in the wall telling me that I'm not "necessarily" experiencing "clinical depression." Actually, I am. I realize that it is important to not confuse and conflate the dysphoria/despondency/low mood that gets brought on by opioid withdrawal with depression not rooted in acute withdrawal syndrome. It's important because they're separate issues, although one can aggravate the other. Pointing that out is very valid. What's not very valid is to believe that one is All-Knowing. To say that taking 20 mg of hydrocodone a day is making a person's clinical depression "infinitely worse" is to claim to know everything. I think the suggestion was kind of preposterous. Sure - if I gobble up my tablets too quickly and wind up in withdrawal because it's too soon to get more, I'll be quite unhappy. I'll have restless leg syndrome or akathisia, which is m i s e r a b l e. If I didn't know it was temporary, I'ld throw myself off a cliff because that physical sensation becomes increasingly intolerable for me. That's why I space out my tablets, so I rarely run out before my next prescription is available. When I have left myself short, it was for only briefly. (Which is unpleasant enough.) I've been doing this for years. I've been allotted the same monthly supply for years. I'm not highly self-disciplined. The akathisia imposes a discipline that I've learned to respect.

It is a pretense of being All-Knowing for someone to say that me taking hydrocodone "is causing your depression." Snafu doesn't KNOW that. Of course, he can believe that, if he wants.
I said none of those things.

Look, just forget I'm here. Put me on ignore. Whatever. I never meant to offend you or be rude towards you whatsoever.

Put please stop twisting my words and calling me pretentious or self absorbed. I'm gushing with humility and not what you keep writing me as.

Best wishes.
 
I said none of those things.

Look, just forget I'm here. Put me on ignore. Whatever. I never meant to offend you or be rude towards you whatsoever.

Put please stop twisting my words and calling me pretentious or self absorbed. I'm gushing with humility and not what you keep writing me as.

Best wishes.
I regret being irritable and argumentative. Anyone attempting to be helpful deserves better than that. It is I who was rude.
 
We are a pretty amazing group of people here, I hope you don't feel like you don't belong because you definitely do.
That's very nice to hear. Belonging doesn't come easy to me, which might not surprise you. Thank you for your kindness and patience.
 
You definitely have a point ; however in my experience commonly prescribed anti-depressants ALSO result in you feeling more depressed when you come off them. Then when someone runs low on pills for whatever reason they presume they must be chronically depressed and think they need to keep taking them, when in fact they might have come out of the depression and the only reason they feel worse is the withdrawal / re-adjustment process.

I ended up weaning myself off amitryptiline because I was sick of the side-effects, and the doc wanted me on it indefinitely. However from experience my episodes last around 3 months and then I'm fine for awhile. I don't wanna be on medication when I'm well; but while on these pills I lost the ability to tell whether I was actually needing them or not. If I stopped taking them I'd feel awful, but there was no way of knowing if that meant my depression recurring or if it was just the effect of the medication wearing off.

Plus it didn't do all that much for me and the impractical thing about all anti-depressants is they take several weeks to really kick in and start working, so typically by the time I get the full effect my actual episode is practically over. Whereas an opiate will work immediately and work better.
I think the majority of people don't need to be on antidepressants, particularly after this revelation that low serotonin isn't actually associated with depression after all. They only have a 15% efficacy rate, which is probably the lowest in all of pharma.

I've been on a few and like you said the side effects outweigh the minimal effectiveness. I think some amount of placebo is baked into their design.

When I was in my 20s I learned that I don't have neurological depression, it's psychological. Simply going for a jog and getting something accomplished, or even facing something I'm scared of, completely eliminates my depression.

Basically forcing myself to do things I don't want to cures my depression. Sometimes people just look at things the wrong way; "I'm depressed because I'm single and lovely" vs "I'm depressed because I don't want to put in the effort and anxiety of flirting/dating". That's how I look at it at least in my life.

Everyone is different, though. They do save lives and help people. It's just not something that helps me. People love to absolutely hate on big pharma, but it does help a lot of people.

It does bother me that they don't ever try figure out if your depression is neurological, psychological, or psychosomatic. They just throw pills at you. It's a racket, but so far a lot of things in the US pharmaceutical industry.

Ketamine and amphetamines are way better antidepressant when taken responsibly in therapeutic doses.
 
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have u ever tried Kratom? as I ve said it s nothing like the "real thing" but it really helps with w-d and depression.At least it worked for me (along with the odd benzo and loperamide) when I was really in a bad shape
It's great for depression but becomes problematic if you get addicted to high doses. The effect becomes very short with tolerance (2-3 hours) and you're constantly up and down, yoyo. The depression from PAWS also lasts longer than other opioids in my experience.

Thanks for the link. I just looked it up. The article said it's not detectable in most drug screening tests. It also says it can be bought legally. I saw some web sites for online vendors. That's interesting.
Nobody tests for it. It's not on any multi panel test.

Kratom has helped me tremendously. Finding good quality stuff is important, there is A LOT of very poor quality kratom going around in the US.

It might increase your tolerance to hydrocodone, though.

Might be worth checking out.
 
It's great for depression but becomes problematic if you get addicted to high doses. The effect becomes very short with tolerance (2-3 hours) and you're constantly up and down, yoyo. The depression from PAWS also lasts longer than other opioids in my experience.


Nobody tests for it. It's not on any multi panel test.

Kratom has helped me tremendously. Finding good quality stuff is important, there is A LOT of very poor quality kratom going around in the US.

It might increase your tolerance to hydrocodone, though.

Might be worth checking out.
Thank you for that information and your first hand experience.
 
I think the majority of people don't need to be on antidepressants, particularly after this revelation that low serotonin isn't actually associated with depression after all. They only have a 15% efficacy rate, which is probably the lowest in all of pharma.

I've been on a few and like you said the side effects outweigh the minimal effectiveness. I think some amount of placebo is baked into their design.

When I was in my 20s I learned that I don't have neurological depression, it's psychological. Simply going for a jog and getting something accomplished, or even facing something I'm scared of, completely eliminates my depression.

Basically forcing myself to do things I don't want to cures my depression. Sometimes people just look at things the wrong way; "I'm depressed because I'm single and lovely" vs "I'm depressed because I don't want to put in the effort and anxiety of flirting/dating". That's how I look at it at least in my life.

Everyone is different, though. They do save lives and help people. It's just not something that helps me. People love to absolutely hate on big pharma, but it does help a lot of people.

It does bother me that they don't ever try figure out if your depression is neurological, psychological, or psychosomatic. They just throw pills at you. It's a racket, but so far a lot of things in the US pharmaceutical industry.

Ketamine and amphetamines are way better antidepressant when taken responsibly in therapeutic doses.
I think that's a lot of valid insight.
 
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