I'ld like to hear from anyone who uses an opioid to fight depression.

[DesertHarp]

I've started a few threads already. I'm starting this one to introduce myself, which I didn't do before.

I take hydrocodone for back pain. I get 60 tablets each month. (What I get is called Vicodin - hydrocodone and acetaminophen - 10/325.) That's my only supply. It's prescribed legally. Much of the time, my back pain isn't a big issue. Often, the real reason I keep taking these pills is to feel better mentally. I suffer from depression. I've been to shrinks about it and tried all kinds of psych meds. Nothing they prescibe does much. I function okay.

It seems like my life revolves around these pills. Basically, I take one every twelve hours. I'm obsessed with these pills. I count the hours until I can take another one. Sometimes, when the depression is bad, I don't wait the twelve hours. If I run out of pills before the month is up, I pay a price. If I go 36 hours without a pill, I start to have withdrawal. For me that is "restless leg syndrome." I would call it akathisia because it is round the clock. It's torture, so I mostly space out my pills to last the whole month.
At times, I think of suicide to escape the depression. I feel like these tablets are the best thing I have going for me. Yesterday, I took two tablets at the same time because I was having a miserable time with severe depression. That 20 mg of hydrocodone was like getting a glass of water in the desert. It helped a lot.

I wonder if anyone else here finds that using an opioid relieves depression. I don't discuss this with any doctor. I figure that would be the fastest way to lose this prescription that I value so much.

I always have to fight the temptation to use up my tablets ahead of schedule because I don't want to face withdrawal.

I'm trying to find a way to feel better without using up my tablets too soon. I'm thinking of trying edible cannabis. I don't find alcohol helpful, so I'm not much of a drinker.

 

[ChemicallyEnhanced]

Hi. Yes. Right here.
I'm actually prescribed opiates (codeine and morphine) for severe pain, but I 100% use them to treat mental pain as well.

 

[DesertHarp]

Right now I'm enjoying the afterglow of taking a Vicodin tablet, which I did 90 minutes ago. This relief will only last so long. In another 90 minutes, it will be starting to wear off. Then I have to face the hours of waiting, until I can take another one. The evening dose doesn't feel as good as the morning one.

I sought out treatment for depression. I did that for years, leaving no stone unturned. Doctors don't listen to me or take me seriously. I always functioned okay. (Got through school, held down jobs, kept a roof over my head.) On the surface, I can seem like I'm just fine.

Now I have to go eat. My morning does of Vicodin makes me hungry once it kicks in. Before that, I can't eat.

 

[DesertHarp]

To @ChemicallyEnhanced - I'm sorry that you have so much physical pain. You must have a serious diagnosis because prescriptions for morphine are not given out lightly.

Thanks for understanding about mental pain and how it can be helped by opiates. I hope you get significant relief from what you take.
Some people will say that taking drugs for mental pain doesn't solve anything. They don't understand that relief is relief.

 

[Snafu in the Void]

Welcome to BL

What you are describing is opioid dependence and addiction, not necessarily depression.

Opioids are indeed an amazing antidepressant, but they are also causing your depression. Using opioids to fight depression is an uphill losing battle.

When you stop taking opioids while dependent you will become very, very depressed within <8-12 hours. But this is not the same thing as clinical depression.

You are probably depressed and opioid dependent, just need to recognize the two as different and how the latter makes it infinitely worse.

 

[DesertHarp]

Welcome to BL

What you are describing is opioid dependence and addiction, not necessarily depression.

Opioids are indeed an amazing antidepressant, but they are also causing your depression. Using opioids to fight depression is an uphill losing battle.

When you stop taking opioids while dependent you will become very, very depressed within <8-12 hours. But this is not the same thing as clinical depression.

You are probably depressed and opioid dependent, just need to recognize the two as different and how the latter makes it infinitely worse.

To @Snafu in the Void - It's true that the dysphoria that goes along with falling blood levels of opioid in an addicted person is not the same thing as clinical depression. One can have both things going on. I do. I was diagnosed with clinical depression decades before I ever got a prescription for an opioid.

You have recited the standard talking points that I've read or heard a thousand times already. So what brings you to "Bluelight?" Do you struggle with an addiction?

I'm sure you mean well.

I know I'm addicted to hydrocodone. I know I'm opioid dependent. As I described in my first post, I withdraw as soon as 36 hours after not taking hydrocodone. I know that unpleasantness is independent of my longstanding problem with clinical depression. I know dependence is an added burden. So what is your point?

It sounds like you're saying I would be better off, if I stopped taking hydrocodone. OK . . . I heard you.

 

[Snafu in the Void]

So what brings you to "Bluelight?" Do you struggle with an addiction?

I'm sure you mean well.

I've been an addict my whole life for 20+ years. Heroin and alcohol mostly, also been dependent on benzos many times. Been a druggie since I was 14.

Deprecating your thought process is part of improving it, as is receiving criticism which isn't even what I was doing.

So what is your point?

I'm diagnosing your question and trying to figure out what would best help your situation.

I am indeed here to help, not your enemy, nor trying to belittle your plight or pain. I'm actually a really nice guy, being objective and helpful. You can't address depression while opioid dependent without realizing opioid withdrawal is making you acutely depressed itself. And like I said, indeed they are different things, but are commonly found in bed together.

 

[DesertHarp]

I've been an addict my whole life for 20+ years. Heroin and alcohol mostly, also been dependent on benzos many times. Been a druggie since I was 14.

Deprecating your thought process is part of improving it, as is receiving criticism which isn't even what I was doing.



I'm diagnosing your question and trying to figure out what would best help your situation.

I am indeed here to help, not your enemy, nor trying to belittle your plight or pain. I'm actually a really nice guy, being objective and helpful. You can't address depression while opioid dependent without realizing opioid withdrawal is making you acutely depressed itself. And like I said, indeed they are different things, but are commonly found in bed together.

To @snafu in the Dark - I suppose you are drug-free now? (Just a rhetorical question.) If your insight has led you to stop using, and you are maintaining good mental health, then I sincerely congratulate you.

I'm actually not more depressed, since taking hydrocodone, than I was before it was prescribed. I was a psychological mess before. Current despondency is nothing new.

Sometimes, after doing laundry, I can't finish folding the clothes, until I take a Vicodin tablet and let it kick in. (Any work leads to back pain that disables me.) Without Vicodin, I couldn't keep my rose bushes trimmed. I'ld have no pain, if I stayed in my recliner all day. That option actually looks good to me when I'm particularly depressed. Inactivity has bad consequences too. Sometimes there is no ideal option.

Yesterday and today, I don't have a problem with physical pain. That's because I've been very despondent and not doing much physically. Of course, I know that inactivity makes depression worse. That's another one of those talking points that people like to parrot off.

I don't lack for knowledge about the deleterious effects of drugs and maladaptive ways of coping. Last evening, I took a double dose of Vicodin because I was distraught from many hours of mental pain. It sure helped! It helped a lot! I wasn't having withdrawal discomfort. I was just very depressed. I'm not always depressed. Sometimes I'm fine. I get episodes of severe dysphoria that have plagued me all my life.

Sometimes mental pain becomes disabling, and a person just wants relief, however it can be had. With your history, I'm sure you know what that is like.

Not all addicts suffer from clinical depression. My companion of 30 years was dependent on alcohol for many years. He didn't know the meaning of true clinical depression, even though he had drank himself into the gutter repeatedly. I'm talking homeless, cold and hungry. I'm baffled at how one can be an impoverished alcoholic and not be depressed. It happens. He had no shortage of problems. Clinical depression was not one of them. I was in a position to know. He did eventually recover. He stopped drinking and was sober for 23 years. I couldn't explain depression to him.

I'm sure you know plenty about the severe psychic distress of needing a fix, after too many hours without one. I think we agree that clinical depression is a different animal. I'm not claiming that my coping strategy is brilliant. It is what it is. I came to bluelight to meet others who have coping strategies, involving substance use. If you're doing all the "right" things to cope with life, then bully for you. I love hydrocodone, and I'll keep picking it up at the drugstore. I feel better when I take it.

 

[DesertHarp]

Sorry. Above post is to @Snafu in the Void.

 

[Snafu in the Void]

To @snafu in the Dark - I suppose you are drug-free now? (Just a rhetorical question.) If your insight has led you to stop using, and you are maintaining good mental health, then I sincerely congratulate you.

No... I still relapse frequently. Haven't been completely sober a day in my life unless I was in jail or detox/inpatient rehab.

I'm speaking as a peer, not a greater. I'm being real with you.

Not all addicts suffer from clinical depression. My companion of 30 years was dependent on alcohol for many years. He didn't know the meaning of true clinical depression, even though he had drank himself into the gutter repeatedly. I'm talking homeless, cold and hungry. I'm baffled at how one can be an impoverished alcoholic and not be depressed. It happens. He had no shortage of problems. Clinical depression was not one of them. I was in a position to know. He did eventually recover. He stopped drinking and was sober for 23 years. I couldn't explain depression to him.

I'm sure you know plenty about the severe psychic distress of needing a fix, after too many hours without one. I think we agree that clinical depression is a different animal. I'm not claiming that my coping strategy is brilliant. It is what it is. I came to bluelight to meet others who have coping strategies, involving substance use. If you're doing all the "right" things to cope with life, then bully for you. I love hydrocodone, and I'll keep picking it up at the drugstore. I feel better when I take it.

I'm that guy. Impoverished alcoholic. Never said I was doing all the right stuff. There is no need to get defensive.

I give people advice. I try to help, based on what keeps me going. That generally involes being very frank with people.

I never told you to stop picking up your hydrocodone.

 

[lovemissile66]

I can tell you with absolute certainty, that after shooting dope for more than 18 years...it was more for mental relief than the 15 second beautiful rush that I got and still fantasize about. Better antidepressant than the antidepressants I am currently prescribed.

 

[DesertHarp]

No... I still relapse frequently. Haven't been completely sober a day in my life unless I was in jail or detox/inpatient rehab.

I'm speaking as a peer, not a greater. I'm being real with you.


I'm that guy. Impoverished alcoholic. Never said I was doing all the right stuff. There is no need to get defensive.

I give people advice. I try to help, based on what keeps me going. That generally involes being very frank with people.

I never told you to stop picking up your hydrocodone.

"Deprecating" someone else's "thought process" as a means of "improving it" comes across as a bit pretentious. I'm sure you have no idea of how smug that can sound. So you're currently drinking almost daily and occasionally doping, but you're telling me what I "need to recognize." Wow. Keep on advising people. No doubt you are changing lives left and right.

 

[Snafu in the Void]

"Deprecating" someone else's "thought process" as a means of "improving it" comes across as a bit pretentious. I'm sure you have no idea of how smug that can sound.

It's not an insult in any fashion. You're the one taking it that way. It's actually an extremely common concept in Eastern religion and self help manifestos... and as a way to recover from depression.

So you're currently drinking almost daily and occasionally doping, but you're telling me what I "need to recognize." Wow. Keep on advising people. No doubt you are changing lives left and right.

You are interpreting neutral language as hostile. I am sorry, please ignore me and seek your advice. It's a big site.

If you want advice on depression without someone acknowledging an opioid dependency, or trying to relate to you in that way, this isn't the website.

I legitimately am trying to help you, I'm sorry you took offense to anything.

 

[DesertHarp]

It's not an insult in any fashion. You're the one taking it that way. It's actually an extremely common concept in Eastern religion and self help manifestos... and as a way to recover from depression.


You are interpreting neutral language as hostile. I am sorry, please ignore me and seek your advice. It's a big site.

If you want advice on depression without someone acknowledging an opioid dependency, or trying to relate to you in that way, this isn't the website.

I legitimately am trying to help you, I'm sorry you took offense to anything.

So now I don't belong on this website. I thought this was the "Welcome Forum." Well, I guess the moderators can throw me off, if they like.

I believe your original intention was to be helpful. Thanks for wanting to be helpful.

 

[TheUltimateFixx]

Welcome to BL

What you are describing is opioid dependence and addiction, not necessarily depression.

Opioids are indeed an amazing antidepressant, but they are also causing your depression. Using opioids to fight depression is an uphill losing battle.

When you stop taking opioids while dependent you will become very, very depressed within <8-12 hours. But this is not the same thing as clinical depression.

You are probably depressed and opioid dependent, just need to recognize the two as different and how the latter makes it infinitely worse.

You definitely have a point ; however in my experience commonly prescribed anti-depressants ALSO result in you feeling more depressed when you come off them. Then when someone runs low on pills for whatever reason they presume they must be chronically depressed and think they need to keep taking them, when in fact they might have come out of the depression and the only reason they feel worse is the withdrawal / re-adjustment process.

I ended up weaning myself off amitryptiline because I was sick of the side-effects, and the doc wanted me on it indefinitely. However from experience my episodes last around 3 months and then I'm fine for awhile. I don't wanna be on medication when I'm well; but while on these pills I lost the ability to tell whether I was actually needing them or not. If I stopped taking them I'd feel awful, but there was no way of knowing if that meant my depression recurring or if it was just the effect of the medication wearing off.

Plus it didn't do all that much for me and the impractical thing about all anti-depressants is they take several weeks to really kick in and start working, so typically by the time I get the full effect my actual episode is practically over. Whereas an opiate will work immediately and work better.

 

[Staring into the Abyss]

I’m currently prescribed Cymbalta, Lyrica, and Wellbutrin for pain and depression. I get zero relief from these meds. I’m constantly in pain and have suicidal ideation.

I’m an alcoholic now because it’s the only thing that helps. I don’t blame you for using something that actually works. It’s a shame that it’s habit forming.

 

[nznity]

Counterproductive on the long term. Opioids are unsustainable unless u have a fucking truckload of heroin and even that will never be enough. As long as opioids remain illegal/controlled, it will be fucking hard to sustain a bloody fucking habit. Apart from that, being in a comfort bubble for so long makes you too dettached from the world.

 

[skipjames]

I wonder if anyone else here finds that using an opioid relieves depression. I don't discuss this with any doctor. I figure that would be the fastest way to lose this prescription that I value so much.

I ve used heroin first and oxycodone later as both an anti depressive and as a self medication for anxiety on and off for the last 17 years.

I don t do H anymore cos now I live in a country ( Brazil) where the thing basically does not exist and oxys mostly because I ve lost my plug and because opioids are great but having sex with my wife is even better.
I still consider opioids a better alternative to benzos and SSRI´s and other shit, still...now that I ve been clean for a while I think that they give u something with a hand and steal u something with the other.with oxys my tolerance skyrocketed quickly, to the point that with 300 mgs I was not feeling good, I was feeling not bad. My libido was basically gone along with my creativity etc.
Not to mention that shit can happen, hence during and after w-ds my anxiety and depression was even worse ( I think that´s the point that @Snafu in the Void was trying to make) hence....
So to sum up I think that short term strong opioids can work for anxiety & or depression, but long term we cannot rely on them to treat our mental issues unless they are the only alternative to suicide.
Kratom is a decent alternative to me, nothing as the real deal but "opiate like" enough to help with anxiety and depression without the crazy shit that comes with "real" opioids.

 

[DesertHarp]

---

---

You definitely have a point ; however in my experience commonly prescribed anti-depressants ALSO result in you feeling more depressed when you come off them. Then when someone runs low on pills for whatever reason they presume they must be chronically depressed and think they need to keep taking them, when in fact they might have come out of the depression and the only reason they feel worse is the withdrawal / re-adjustment process.

I ended up weaning myself off amitryptiline because I was sick of the side-effects, and the doc wanted me on it indefinitely. However from experience my episodes last around 3 months and then I'm fine for awhile. I don't wanna be on medication when I'm well; but while on these pills I lost the ability to tell whether I was actually needing them or not. If I stopped taking them I'd feel awful, but there was no way of knowing if that meant my depression recurring or if it was just the effect of the medication wearing off.

Plus it didn't do all that much for me and the impractical thing about all anti-depressants is they take several weeks to really kick in and start working, so typically by the time I get the full effect my actual episode is practically over. Whereas an opiate will work immediately and work better.

To @TheUltimateFixx - Thanks very much for discussing your experience. We have something in common. I also was put on amitriptyline way, way back . . . when it was a first-line treatment, which it no longer is. Doctors now avoid it like the plague. (Of course, the patent ran out long ago, and the stuff is cheap as crap. Big Pharma is pushing the newer, way, way more expensive stuff. Hmmm. I wonder if that influences MDs.) Yes, amitriptyline comes with prominent side effects that doctors genuinely want to steer away from. The biggest worry is cardiac dysrhythmias. It caused me severe constipation, which may be why I get recurrent diverticulitis. Everything in life extracts a price.

For me, amitriptyline was a miracle. It kicked in way before they tell you to expect it to. It didn't banish depression by no means, but it made me function way more successfully. I kept dropping out of school and not holding down jobs. On amitriptyline, I finished college and could hold down a job. It improved my awful insomnia. Once my life got so much better, I started weening off it, repeatedly. The result was never good. One MD told me to only drop it 5 mg per month. I did that. I stayed off for a number of months. The result was not good. I know all about "discontinuation syndrome." I went through it, determined to come out on the other side. I did. I always had depressive episodes - with or without amitriptyline. They don't last as long as yours. They're much shorter, but often severe. While I was off the amiyriptyline, it took me longer to pull out of an episode. Insomnia returned. I wouldn't have been able to hold down a job.

Sorry to ramble on so much. MDs tried me on every psych drug you can name. They did zilch. Only amitriptyline impacts my life. Even with it, I still deal with chronically recurring depressive episodes. I take 50 mg each evening. (Taking more never improved my response.) I could get by on 40 mg, but not as good. Doctors are surprised I get so much out of a modest dose. But it's no cure.

I appreciate the validity of what you describe as your lived experience. Mine is just very different. I expect to take amitriptyline till I die. Not just to avoid the difficulty of getting off it, but because it's been proven to me that I'm better off on it.

"Better off" is a long way from being well, which I will never be. Indomethacin was great for my physical pain. But I developed bleeding ulcers, so I can never take that again. Hydrocodone, like you said, kicks in immediately. Physically and mentally, I feel better after taking some. I wish I could take a lot more

I’m currently prescribed Cymbalta, Lyrica, and Wellbutrin for pain and depression. I get zero relief from these meds. I’m constantly in pain and have suicidal ideation.

I’m an alcoholic now because it’s the only thing that helps. I don’t blame you for using something that actually works. It’s a shame that it’s habit forming.

To - @Staring into the Abyss - I was on so many psych drugs, it's hard to remember. Outside of amitriptyline, they were all useless. (And some were extremely expensive, which I was able to get funding for.) I'm sorry you're in so much distress and have no medication that ameliorates it, even somewhat. I'm sorry you've been driven to alcohol because that also causes problems. Many years ago, I tried drinking for relief. I found it very good - short term - for stress and anxiety. It is recognized as an analgesic, so I'm not surprised, if it affords you pain relief. But I found it useless for depression. Now and then, I used alcohol for insomnia, but it wasn't too good for that either. So I pretty much gave up on it.

Thanks for trying to understand. I hope you have some rest tonight. I wish we all had better answers.

 

[DesertHarp]

I can tell you with absolute certainty, that after shooting dope for more than 18 years...it was more for mental relief than the 15 second beautiful rush that I got and still fantasize about. Better antidepressant than the antidepressants I am currently prescribed.

To - @lovemissile66 - I'm impressed that you managed to transition from shooting dope to taking antidepressants.

I can tell you with absolute certainty, that after shooting dope for more than 18 years...it was more for mental relief than the 15 second beautiful rush that I got and still fantasize about. Better antidepressant than the antidepressants I am currently prescribed.