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Tryptamines I think magnesium glycinate reduces the effects of DMT

BourbonMac

BourbonMac

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Jan 14, 2022
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I can't really say. It took me way, way more to blast off tonight. I mean the first few pulls I felt literally nothing, I've never felt not even the body high come on.
Glycine could perhaps be related but there isn't much of it in, actually. I don't see any single experiences or studies or anything that seem to have any link to reducing the effects. Last night it took me more to blast off as well but, not as much. I felt the body high right away. I thought because I'd had a caffeine tablet for a headache, that was blocking it. I did take a Midol which has 60mg caffeine in it earlier but I think I've done this on other nights..

I'm wondering if anyone else has noted reduced effects while using magnesium, particularly glycinate. I've been taking it lately because it seems to help tinnitus for me and I only had 2 trips since I started taking magnesium with last night being the only other time. I'm pretty sure I took way more last night though... All I know is something blocked the DMT effects like crazy, and I don't think it was the small bit of caffeine in that tablet given it's countered by a gen 1 antihistamine which should get rid of any caffeine effects. 60mg is such a small amount of caffeine anyway. But yeah, it took me way, way more to blast off. Enough to have broken through which I did on some other nights. Last night I had a crazy intense trip that left me utterly debilitated for awhile. This one was almost like that, but yeah something is off... Again I see no studies linking magnesium use, particularly glycinate as reducing DMT effects.

I think I have used more of it in general than the daily amount, so perhaps I should use less. Depends if my tinnitus gets worse, today was the first day it really seemed to, but ever since I started the magnesium my tinnitus went way down. I took 2 like 2 hours ago and maybe that reduced shit, I really don't know. I don't think I took any hours before last nights trip, and either way there's no single piece of evidence I can find linking magnesium reducing DMT effects. Again there isn't much glycine in it, I actually have a pure glycine bottle of 1g per capsule coming. I suppose if I take that before, it may show me that it's mostly the glycine? Idk I've definitely taken some before tripping and not had anything like this but I definitely took over the daily recommended amount. Guess I can only try again tomorrow and see what happens
 
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I haven’t heard of this before. But Glycine from the glycinate can act as an inhibitory neurotransmitter. It can also lead to stimulation. I think the effects are idiosyncratic. You might want to try a different form of magnesium.
 
Most people get sedation from glycinate, stimulation from L-threonate. I try to take the threonate during the day for that reason, but so far I'm not sure if the glycine has helped my tinnitus or the magnesium in general. I'll know once I have the megadose glycine tablets, or maybe it's just total coincidence my tinnitus has improved. The last thing that improved it was kava which has magnesium and glycine but in way lesser amounts so it has to be something going on with kavalactones. I had to stop because my skin was getting fucked from it.

Despite improvements, since Saturday I have more static than usual especially in my left ear, really since 4/20, THC spikes it pretty bad but I only smoked half a blunt that day so my ear should be back to normal by now. The day after 4/20 was the best day for my ears in general for a long time, there was a little static in the left and absolutely nothing in the right which normally screams at a volume so horrible I can't hear over it.

Anyway, since threonate is really the more stimulating one, my only other option would be citrate or something and that's a laxative pretty much. Or I could just not take any magnesium within 6 hours of tripping and then take it after.
 
Nah, haven't changed anything besides taking more magnesium glycinate lately. I took pretty much all L-threonate today, so if I trip harder it'll likely be a result of the glycine dampening it. Only had 100mg glycinate around 12 hours ago. But it's hard to say, I could have a steady state thing going on with it. Magnesium has a half life of 1,000 hours apparently lol. But glycine is 4 hours. I wonder with a half life like that why we need 400mg a day.
 
I found this info on reddit when I asked about it, or at least it came from a user that seemed knowledgeable (a few others who take Mag Glyc also seemed to note lighter trips)

-----------------------


The rare connection I found is that both DMT and magnesium interact with NMDA receptors in our brains. These receptors are super important for things like learning, memory, and being a smarty-pants1. DMT gets all friendly with these receptors, while magnesium is like the bouncer who keeps things under control2.

So here's my garage-lab hypothesis: magnesium glycinate (a fancy form of magnesium) reduces DMT's effects by messing with the function of NMDA receptors3. Basically, magnesium could be like, "Hey DMT, you're not getting past me!" and block DMT from activating these receptors. Some more ideas:

  • Serotonin Party Time: DMT loves to dance with serotonin 5-HT2A receptors, which make you trip4. Magnesium plays DJ, regulating serotonin levels and maybe even affecting the DMT-serotonin dance-off5.
  • Glutamate Police: Magnesium regulates the release of glutamate, the life of the neurotransmitter party6. It could be like a chaperone, making sure DMT doesn't get the NMDA receptors too excited7.
  • NO Fun: Magnesium can inhibit nitric oxide synthase (NOS), which makes nitric oxide (NO)[^8^] - not to be confused with the word "no," but it might as well be, because it's stopping the party. Less NO means less NMDA receptor activation by DMT[^9^].
  • Calcium Bouncers: Magnesium can block voltage-gated calcium channels, which helps neurons chill out[^10^]. DMT might sneak calcium ions into neurons through NMDA receptors, but magnesium is like, "Nope, not on my watch!"11.
  • Chill Pill: Magnesium is known to help reduce stress and anxiety[^12^]. DMT trips can be wild, so magnesium glycinate might just help you keep your cool, changing the overall experience[^13^].


Sources:

  1. Paoletti, P., Bellone, C., & Zhou, Q. (2013). NMDA receptor subunit diversity: impact on receptor properties, synaptic plasticity and disease. Nature Reviews Neuroscience, 14(6), 383-400.
  2. McKenna, D. J. (2004). Clinical investigations of the therapeutic potential of ayahuasca: rationale and regulatory challenges. Pharmacology & Therapeutics, 102(2), 111-129.
  3. Slutsky, I., Abumaria, N., Wu, L. J., Huang, C., Zhang, L., Li, B., ... & Tonegawa, S. (2010). Enhancement of learning and memory by elevating brain magnesium. Neuron, 65(2), 165-177.
  4. Nichols, D. E. (2016). Psychedelics. Pharmacological Reviews, 68(2), 264-355. ↩
  5. Sartori, S. B., Whittle, N., Hetzenauer, A., & Singewald, N. (2012). Magnesium deficiency induces anxiety and HPA axis dysregulation: modulation by therapeutic drug treatment. Neuropharmacology, 62(1), 304-312.
  6. Coan, E. J., & Collingridge, G. L. (1985). Magnesium ions block an N-methyl-D-aspartate receptor-mediated component of synaptic transmission in rat hippocampus. Neuroscience Letters, 53(1), 21-26.


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It seems like it's likely to me. I couldn't believe how much more it actually took me to even feel the first tickle of body high, I would've been near breakthrough on that amount normally. It didn't "calm down" the trip like he mentions in his last note though, it just took a shitton more.
 
DMT’s primary effects aren’t mediated by the NMDA receptors though.
Magnesium’s effect on them is also quite weak.
I’ve been taking magnesium glycinate for years and I’ve never noticed it weakening any psychedelic.
I think that something else is probably the culprit.
 
This is the only change, I don't know how much you take per day. I was going quite a bit over. Maybe for me it's just like this. My individual body chemistry making the glycine block it. I'll know for sure when I get the glycine tablets if that really blocks anything. I'd doubt magnesium alone is it.

As for tonight, well... I was already tripping on mushrooms, so I couldn't exactly tell about a body rush occurring at a usual timeframe. Usually one or two big pulls will bring the heavy body rush, but yeah I couldn't tell here, already with a heavy body load that felt like DMT beforehand. I'm still tripping right now and I felt a flood of cold rush to my legs/feet like insanely. I don't know how many pulls I took, 4, 5 till they blinked? I think it was 5. Perhaps last night was just random, sometimes you don't trip as hard, but clearly something was blocking my ability to feel it. I just can't tell tonight... already tripping. This would I think usually be enough to make me go out of my mind which did happen, just differently... Wow. I think I'll stop writing now
 
If it "could" block a DMT trip surely it should do the same for psilocybin right? In theory.

Also @arrall how long after taking any magnesium glycinate do you do psychedelics? I think the timing might be a key thing at least for me. I just know absolutely nothing changed besides using this which I'd taken before the trip the other night. I've done DMT over 100 times now and this is the only time I've felt nothing from so much, and given some others in the post I made on reddit recently started taking it and couldn't break through it seems that at least for some of us this can be a blocker.
 
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I don't know why, but sometimes DMT just don't work or has very weak effects. Not just me experiencing this.
 
Yeah I've done it like a hundred times at least and sometimes i didn't trip as hard but this? way different, I couldn't feel a thing and had to take enough to break through just to have a strong trip
 
The same thing just happened. It felt like something was blocking the trip, I once again had to take so much it was crazy to feel anything. I'm taking just magnesium l-threonate at this point. Is magnesium blocking the trip? I have no idea... it might for me personally, I can't really say.

I'm taking otherwise, Taurine 2-3g, and I've just started taking Zinc. None of these seem to be associated with a lesser trip. This was the most i've had to take period to get to where I got. I would've broken through 2 times over with this amount otherwise... it doesn't really make sense. Apparently magnesium in general blocks trips for me, it shouldn't be it seems to be so. I also took some turmeric

I mean otherwise I had a 60mg/500mg (caffeine and tylenol) but that little amount of caffeine shouldn't have blocked anything, especially given I took L-theanine and also there's an antihistamine in this, it's Midol, which means any speedy effect from caffeine should've been basically countered. The L-theanine especially should have.

yes... very strange. I don't know why my trips are getting blunted so much. I'm on 0.3 of psilocybin otherwise, that should if anything increase the effects. This is the most I've ever had to take to trip this hard, I did like 7 blinker hits on my pen. 5 breaks me through normally. And since DMT and shrooms work on the same receptors and I could feel the shrooms, this doesn't make sense unless I hit some part of the pen that's less potent. I have a fresh one that I could try out tomorrow but I've never had issues with any pens in this fashion. Like, it was always consistent all the way through given my friend just melts it and pours it into the vape cart.
 
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You’re “on” .3g of shrooms? Like daily or every 3 days? I could definitely see that causing a tolerance. That’s a threshold dose. You do also play around often with various psychoactives and supplements that maybe one could be interacting. I’d wager it’s a tolerance thing.

If you read up on DMT, theres folks that say DMT breakthrough won’t occur if one takes a small hit misses the mark then tries again within an hour. While my personal experience hasn’t replicated that, it’s possible your low level shroom tripping is doing something similar.

I take magnesium l-Threonate and occasionally glycinate and haven’t noticed any difference.

-GC
 
BourbonMac said:
So here's my garage-lab hypothesis: magnesium glycinate (a fancy form of magnesium) reduces DMT's effects by messing with the function of NMDA receptors3. Basically, magnesium could be like, "Hey DMT, you're not getting past me!" and block DMT from activating these receptors. Some more ideas:
Click to expand...

Magnesium, especially more centrally active forms like magnesium glycinate, can likely blunt the effects of 5HT2A agonists to a degree, especially at high enough doses, and especially if one is a regular user of these psycheledics is therefore attuned to the differences in effect. Activation of 5HT2A by compounds like DMT lead to a release of glutamate, and this release has significant role in the "psycheledic" effect. Increasing the amount of glutamate in the synapse poteniates this effect and reducing it blunts the effect. It may even be that 5HT2A and certain metabotropic glutamate receptors act as heteroreceptor complexes in this regard:



So yeah in any event by decreasing presynaptic glutamate release and reducing catecholamine release, centrally active forms of magnesium glycinate could likely blunt/reduce the sparkle of DMT a bit
 
G_Chem said:
You’re “on” .3g of shrooms? Like daily or every 3 days? I could definitely see that causing a tolerance. That’s a threshold dose. You do also play around often with various psychoactives and supplements that maybe one could be interacting. I’d wager it’s a tolerance thing.

If you read up on DMT, theres folks that say DMT breakthrough won’t occur if one takes a small hit misses the mark then tries again within an hour. While my personal experience hasn’t replicated that, it’s possible your low level shroom tripping is doing something similar.

I take magnesium l-Threonate and occasionally glycinate and haven’t noticed any difference.

-GC
Click to expand...
I took it for a headache but it's basically psilocin in a chocolate bar (assuming anyway because when I actually take a dose enough to trip, I start tripping almost immediately within 30 minutes while shrooms always took like 1h30m), it was closer to a half G because it was a bit more than a full square, took it for a headache. I don't eat these that often, but I guess my last few trips I've had at least small amounts of psilocybin in me. My previous trip I was tripping pretty hard on the bar so I couldn't really tell when the body rush occurred, I already was feeling an intense one
 
negrogesic said:
Magnesium, especially more centrally active forms like magnesium glycinate, can likely blunt the effects of 5HT2A agonists to a degree, especially at high enough doses, and especially if one is a regular user of these psycheledics is therefore attuned to the differences in effect. Activation of 5HT2A by compounds like DMT lead to a release of glutamate, and this release has significant role in the "psycheledic" effect. Increasing the amount of glutamate in the synapse poteniates this effect and reducing it blunts the effect. It may even be that 5HT2A and certain metabotropic glutamate receptors act as heteroreceptor complexes in this regard:



So yeah in any event by decreasing presynaptic glutamate release and reducing catecholamine release, centrally active forms of magnesium glycinate could likely blunt/reduce the sparkle of DMT a bit
Click to expand...
I stopped the glycinate basically entirely. I might've taken one tablet of it yesterday but it's pretty much all been L-threonate. Perhaps the small amount of shroom bar plays a role in this, I can't really say. I think I'd eaten 0.5g of old dry shrooms for a headache the Saturday before making this thread (tripped fine) and I took 0.7g the next night (when I made this thread I think but it'd been 4-5 hours since I'd eaten them), then roughly 1.5g in the chocolate bar form which is way more intense than regular shrooms. So maybe this is the reason... but the half G of shrooms made me feel absolutely nothing, so did the 0.7 besides maybe noticing a bit more in music. These are mushrooms where just 1g can make me trip pretty hard because they're very strong although they were given to me by a friend who'd had them since like September 2021, they looked fine and I wouldn't imagine they'd lost potency, but maybe I only didn't feel the 0.7 because I'd had 0.5 the previous night.

The 0.3g of this bar again was likely a little closer to 0.5 but I can't say. The serving size says one square is 0.33mg of psilocybin but I truly think it's psilocin because it's so much more intense, comes on crazy fast and doesn't last quite as long. A lot of chocolate bars that go around happen to be psilocin, but I've had bars that tasted like chocolate and mushrooms, these only taste like chocolate.

So maybe psilo in my system is what kind of blocks me from blasting off, because if shrooms and DMT work on the same receptors, magnesium should be reducing the effects of mushrooms as well, right? Thing is, I've tripped totally fine on shrooms before without any issue and I don't generally take them very often. Hell I'd say I tripped even easier before, the first time I had a strong trip off the bars I did DMT (was actually having a bad trip) and the DMT not only worked as usual, but it changed the trip into a good trip. I like having bad mushroom trips, they always show me something about me or my life that I need to fix.

Maybe the basic fact that I've had psilocybin/psilocin regularly in the past week is why, that's the only other thing I can think of. I've had some HPPD ever since my last strong trip but it's hard to say it's from that or the DMT more, I did DMT for a month straight last summer and had the same style of HPPD I have now. Letters melting as I read or type, mildly, just what I call visual glitches. I have done DMT very steadily since the middle of March often tripping 3 days in a row a week sometimes 4 but I don't really believe in tolerance especially given I did it for a month straight and it always worked. Some nights a bit less but those were usually nights that my pen was dying.
 
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It took me less to feel the body rush this time...
It took me significantly more to trip hard though. I lost count at how many I did.
Strange this time, certainly... I'll see how as the days pass I do. It's odd how I felt the body rush sooner, but it took a crazy amount to actually trip. No pcilocin in my system or anything. I did take the glycinate thinking it was probably the shrooms... Maybe the glycinate for me still does reduce it. It was as if I could only go far, it wouldn't let me go further. I started to get sick nearly because of the awful taste. But the fact that it wouldn't let me go further is what's odd. I'll have to not take glycinate before tomorrow and see how really is. But this was different... I've never reached a ceiling before. If anything the psilocin made the trips stronger before... This was a fresh pen.

I'm still tripping pretty hard but yes... strange. Took less to feel, but had a ceiling that I've never reached before.
 
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BourbonMac said:
I took it for a headache but it's basically psilocin in a chocolate bar (assuming anyway because when I actually take a dose enough to trip, I start tripping almost immediately within 30 minutes while shrooms always took like 1h30m),
Click to expand...

Just chiming in to say that I've made my own shroom chocolate bars from my own shrooms (just to say I know what's in them) and I do come up from those just as fast as I do shroom tea with lemon juice. Around 30 minutes as you said I'm high well past placebo.
I've also have grown different strains and I found that, for me and a couple of friends, gram per gram Orissa peaks faster and stronger, has stronger visuals and last less than Penis Envy and Albinos A+.
Recent research has found that there are more psychoactives in Mushrooms other than Psilocybin and Psilocin and that these psychoactives can vary in concentration a lot between strains, which gives credibility to reports of different strains feeling different.
 
I also would say that mag glicinate effects are extremely subtle at most and DMT is like a rabid bull knocking down everything, so I dont see how could a snail could stop a bull... To me seems more like tolerance.

Also DMT needs a very specific amount of heat. If you apply too much, you burn/disintegrate the compound
 
Yeah, I’m gonna go with the notion of frequency of similar type drugs is the issue. But absorbable magnesium does have a calming effect. But I do think DMT would steam roll over it.

Some of you all can really do a lot of drugs frequently. lol Then again, if you didn’t, we wouldn’t have such interesting posts. Watch 20 years from now they’ll be a scientific paper on how magnesium dulls DMT.
 
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