I am sooo tired of seeing 12 year old screwed up out of their minds...

[PaRaDoX]

People like Texass only serve to prove the point.
I don't know WHAT the solution is. I'm against younger ravers. What I AM against is, the drug using little ones. I was into the scene for a LONG time before I did drugs. Before I even CONCIDERED doing drugs. I have to admit, I was more than glad when I sarted, but there are so many other re-precussions.
Sure, I'd love to say that I was a mature child. We all would. Maybe we were... but at the same time, we were not. It's not like you turn 18 and suddenly you are or anything, but there is a point where it becomes YOUR LIFE, and your decision. Maybe I'm saying that wrong, but I'm not sure how to articulate it...
There coes a point where one can look far enough into their future, with an un-clouded mind, and see (to an extent) the results of thier actions. At 17, is not the time. I mean, go into any high school, and ask a grade 10-12 student what they are going to do with thier lives!? REALY... there are so many people who's future is so unsure. The last thing they need is to throw a drug addiction into the mess.
and about the hugging comment, I love random hugs... I realy do... but not from fucked up little girls.
There are entirely too many reasons why litte ones should NOT be a raves, they simply outnumber any reasons why they should.
Oh, and let me tell you WHY promoters make thier events all ages...
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
no alchahol? we can sell tix to minors. Most of them don't give a DAMN who gets in as long as they get paid.
------------------
Who you are never realy changes... It's who you THINK you are that does.
Edited to add a not, and to change some tenses.
[This message has been edited by PaRaDoX (edited 10 February 2000).]

 

[miss apple]

I'm glad to see so many people here who don't agree with children taking mind altering drugs. This is a topic I feel quite strongly about for two reasons.
I agree with Dr E.....E is very hard on your brain and your body (heart and liver) and is not something that should be introduced to a growing, pubescent body. We think that children are growing up and maturing faster than we did with their social conscience, personal health and environmental education yet they think during the most important time for their developing bodies that they should be taking things like E. The reality is exactly the opposite.
The other part of it is that a 14 year old lacks the emotional maturity and experience which I feel is necessary to fully appreciate the E experience. My first experience on E was amazing....I felt the most amazing love for my boyfriend that night. We grew so close and we truly understood what love meant and how deep that love can be between two people. Had I not experienced love before, I couldn't have truly appreciated what this drug was opening me up to. There are so many other examples I could use about friendships and confidence and relating to people but it all comes back to the same thing.....how can you fully understand how much better E can make you as a person if you haven't found out what it's like to be a person without it? If you start out with the drug....where can the drug possibly take you?
vixelyn said it best.....you need to be thinking what the drug can do FOR you, not TO you.
And texass...I took my first pill at 22. I think you'll find there are many more people than you realise who waited till they were older to try the drug.
miss apple
------------------
Music produces a kind of pleasure which human nature cannot do without- Confucius

 

[beaver0117]

ASHKE!! im 14! i have only rolled three times, and have regerttably decided to quit... ive realized that every time im at a party, ill say to myself "how much better would this be if i were rollin" then id go to work trying to find a pill... so ive decided to quit before i get too bad.. also my parents are jedi motherfuking spies and found out about it... well thats all i gotta say, that and that some of my friends are very responsible, monitor their rolling dates and times.... make it safe for them and others... dont judge us, were not that stupid and easily addicted.... im out
------------------
j'aime rouler.... E2K

 

[lilrollingurl]

im 14yrs old-im turn 15 the 19th-i roll and go to raves, yea but im not irresponsible about it. i dont do it more than once a month and NEVER take more than 1 pill-i have smoked weed like 3 times and been drunk twice and rolled 4 times-i can say no and i know when to say no-im very cynical about it and my bf whose 19 writes down everytime we do it so we dont do it more than once a month...i may not be completely matured but drugs are bad no matter wut age you are! im careful and im definatley very careful about it-maybe you dont see it this way...i mean i get funny looks all the time at raves-or anywhere when im with my bf-cuz i look like im 9

and it hurts me horribly because im not a bad kid at all-i do decent in school-no worse than i did before id ever done anything-i havent let it control me and i dont-if i ever even remotley thought it was i'd stop immediatley or my bf would make me...me and my best friend always do it together and yes we get fucked up but no more than a 97lbs 30 year old unless they have more tolerance than me! my parents are loving and i have a good relationship with them! im completely normal outside of the fact that i do e once a month and go to 1 rave a month[cuz theres only 1 thats all ages here]-thats all. i wish we[us youngins] wouldnt get so much discrimination and judgement passed on us- i dont go just 2 do drugs-i love the music-i love to dance... and dont tell me my brain is still developing because your brain is always developing and changing-yes its more risky for me but its not like im doing it every weekend and taking 4 pills every time. if u dont like me there-im sorry- if you want to look at me meanly and not talk to me then thats fine too, i think im a smart enough girl to handle this with some help of course-i probably handle it better than alot of people older than me-people like you, i dont take more than one pill because if u can have fun on 1 and not be as damaged by it then why do it! and i dont do it very often and im sure alot of u do it every week or every other! and i dont plan on doing any of that for a LONG LONG time in fact after my bday im not gonna roll till summer...so be careful when you make these assumptions about people my age-some really do have problems or create them from doing e and dont have self control but not all of us-if you still dont think its okay if i roll after what ive said then fine-i know myself and my body better than any of you-you cant put us down for doing drugs and think you can justify yourself doing them because they have bad effects either way whether your 30 or 10! im sorry if u dont like wut i do i really am-it makes me feel horrible that u feel that way about kids my age but thanks for letting me ramble i guess and maybe one day you'll change your mind-who knows

i love u all anyways tho so dont get me wrong!

 

[lilrollingurl]

haha i just realized what a crackhead post that was-i havent slept in so long! sorry its 11:30 here and im like dead! dont my mind my BEAUTIFUL gramatical errors-and also!
and after reading thru again i understand your views but first off im not STUPID enough when rollin to let ANYONE take advantage of me and if i give u a hug im sorry...the way its looking im not even sure i wanna go to a rave again. i dont like the hypocracy on this page anymore-you speak of plur but yet i cant give u a hug? well that sucks of you. im sorry, it just SUCKS of you. its starting to look like raves really arent as accepting and PLURish as i once thought them to be.

 

[evey]

Don't get me wrong, hugs are the best things at raves. Everyone is different, but I can tell you that I will hug anyone at a rave no matter the age.
My point was that I just can't stand to see such young people getting fucked out of their face to be cool. They may assume they know what they are doing, but I highly doubt it.
I know there are some pretty young ravers out there that have everything together, but not everyone is like you. First time ravers who go with a bunch of their junior high friends don't really know what they are in for.
Can you imagine a 12 year old e-tarded the day after. I can't stand it. What i must be like for then I don't know what to think.

 

[Mr. Sticky]

"...my parents are jedi motherfuking spies..."
beaver, that's the funniest thing I've seen all day. Thanks

------------------
Mr. Sticky--the playboy victim of a hot tub murder

 

[PaRaDoX]

Lilrollingirl...
Well, I'm so sorry for passing judgement on you... I must be one of those "im sure alot of u do it every week or every other!" right? newsflash little one... I roll once a month too, and I rarely do more than one. Ooh, did I hear someone fall off thier high horse? I hate to preach about the "old days" but when I was your age... GOD, I still had no idea who I WAS exactly. Eh Evey?
HIPOCRACY!? you have the nerve to speak of hipocracy? have you even READ your post? I mean, my head is STILL spinning.
I don't recall incinuating that young ravers were "bad kidz" or something, but I mean lets step into reality here.
It's VERY nice of your... ahem... nineteen year old boyfriend... ahem... *does the statchitory rape dance* To introduce you to the whole rave scene and doing e. Oh, but YOU are smart enough not to be taken advantage of, right? Sorry, I forgot.
You are my case in point little one. I hate to sound like a bitch (no I don't) but you, yes you , are who we are talking about. I don't MIND you being there... I MIND you being on drugs. I MIND you bringing all of your little teeny bopper friends, and intorducing other young minds to this "culture".
Hvae you taken the time to LOOK AROUND? The rave is some of these peoples LIVES. THIS IS WHAT THEY DO! I imagine lots of those people were once like you. Yeah, you got your shit together. I bet yer "boyfriend" does too... and all of you mature little friends. How cool are you? Well congratulations. I'll be sure to throw my quarter your way when I see you living in yer phat pants on the street. Sure, maybe that's a bit extreme... But maybe it's not.
What do you plan to do with your life? You have no idea... do you?
let's step back into the REAL issue here, maturity, preparendness:
Hey, EVERYONE, old and young alike: Why don't you PROVE how mature you are, and take two steps back, and LOOK actualy LOOK at your life! Be the "third person". All of you ravers. I swear. When you can tell me that you understand the risks, you understand the consequences, and you CHOSE to take that risk, with a level head, and you are emotionaly prepared for it, THEN throw yourself into the situation.
well, now that I am sure I've offended EVERYONE... I'm going to shut up.
(aside:God this has been a shitty day...)
------------------
Who you are never realy changes... It's who you THINK you are that does.

 

[AnTiLooP]

Well, its sad to hear many young people at such young ages doing drugs especially E. I can't really justify what I said coz I'm sure many of us on this board were like this when we were young. Trying to sneak into discos, secretly drinking alcohol away and only to get caught by out parents when we are crawling on the floor not know who we are. Even things like smoking, funnily enuff it was the thrill. ITs the feelin of being there. Being old enuff and to live in the adults world. Feelin that I at the age of 12 + am so mature and have and edge above the other kids of my group. Well these are natural thoughts. Its all part of growing up.
Well , wether a person , be it 12 ,22 or 30 years of age can't be judged. No one can based on his/her intuition judge another person on his/her level of maturity but sadly the majourity of us young people now adays still do it excessively, and without responsibility. E was suppose to bve enjoyed and not be used to commit crimes. For eg. here in Singapore, we have teens using drugs like E, due to his uppedLoving effect, to take advantage of gals. To make them so fucking high that they just allow the guys to do anything they want. I mean, was E to be abused in such a way ? LOL . U would be surprised at how many rape cases we have with regards to E drug use.
Definitely I was too like one of those people. Who would use E excessively 3 days in a row. Not thinking of bodily heath, money and life. I just wanted to roll whenever I could. This was until when I started working then i finally started to think and really think. I started rejecting roll calls from friends during the weekdays . Reason so for is that I've to work, and I don't want to let my boss see me in such a fucked up still speeding in my own world state. Well, I've started to pay for my own bills, food, basic nesscessities unlike my past which I've left behind. But I do still take E but in moderation.
It only boils down to one point, Level of maturity in a person which is not to be judged by any one at all. We can't do anything about it, their parents can't do anything about. Its life. ( disagree ? think about when you were a kid, did you ever agree with your parents for them rejecting you in whatever way without putting up a big quarrel or tandrum ? )
Till then...

 

[Mr. Horse]

Well, im not sure if you guys feel I am in a position to judge, im 17, and im not going to go on and on how mature I am and how I have a 63 year old girlfriend who writes down when I drop (by the way, I DONT have a 63 y/o g/friend) But this is a very serious topic.
I understand both sides of the argument and being the sort of 'middle man' I will have to agree with the majority of this post. 12-15 is too young. I first rolled when I was 17, thought about the consequinces, did my research, TALKED TO MY PARENTS (which of you can say that!!) and then, after feeling pretty stable, tried it and loved it. I have seen so many young chicks get really fucked up and the sad thing is they won't listen, no matter how hard you try. Ive seen best friends go down the toilet because of nasty people at raves. Under-age raves are a good idea, but they really need to be heavily policed. I would actually be in favour of banning underage raves, because I want to have a good time when Im older as well, but thats not going to happen due to promoters not giving a shit about the safety of youngins. $$$$$$ is all they care about
Rolling is a part of my lifestyle now but I have never let drugs dictate what I do. I can go anywhere and have a great time, and if the opportunity to roll comes up, then great (never more than 1 a month cos im at school). What I am trying to say is take every situation as it comes, a little girl fucked up? have a talk to her, dont just disregard her. These young people need guidence from you (us??) because we are their roll models (pardon the punn) PLUR - Mr. Horse
------------------
I'm an idealist...
I dont know where im going but im on my way

 

[fozzy]

we threw a rave last week in southern cal and
as a promotion company we made the concious decision to have it be a 16 and older event. i have to wonder about these parents who drive there kids to an event at 9 p.m. when they are that young. at what point and time does society have to step in for lack of judgment for parents? i know for myself know amount of money is worth having 12-13 year olds at an event that i hold. there is a big difference in maturity and responsiblity as you grow older. when you are that young you don't have any ideas about the effects your actions might have on yourself and the ones around you. i know i'm making broad asumations about people in that age group but the ones that can handle it are few and far between. if we do not police our own scene sooner or later someone else will do it for us. please be careful on who you bring into and try to determine on whether or not they can handle it. the rave scene is truly unique and special and if mess it up they will crack done on it. just my two cents i dont mean to preach.
fozzy

 

[Dr.E's_bitch]

Regardless of what some of you 16-17 year olds think that you do your research and you are mature and you only occasionlly roll and protect your body I still think you are making a mistake. I am 20 so I have been 16 and 17 years old so I know what it feels like, I know the changes your body and mind go through, and most importantly I know you guys are not ready for what this drug is prepared to do to your mind.
And pertaining to the comment about the majority of people OD'ing being adults. No offense, but that is the stupidest thing I have ever heard and has no relevance here.
Ecstasy doesn't make you overdose to begin with. those older people OD'ing are all the people injecting too much H into their veins or snorting too much coke. These are the people who can afford to do these drugs. I could just imagine how fucked up society would be if cocaine was cheap. Every teen would be simply fried out of their mind and then we would have a real problem on our hands. Since E is mildly affordable and a good drug it becomes the drug of choice for the young kids. I think the major problem is what happens to these teens when they get bored of the rave scene and get bored of E and start making real money?? Will they be the ones fueling the cocaine scene?? I think alot of them will be because i have noticed that E is only a precursor to many much harder drugs and I see alot of people getting cracked out at young young ages for no reason!!!
Its time the young people start showing they truly are mature by refraining from E use, and not talk about how mature they are by preaching moderation but still using the drug when their body isn't ready for it.
------------------
Many people will walk in and out of your life, but only true friends will leave footprints in your heart.
Beautiful young people are accidents of nature, but beautiful old people are works of art.
Yesterday is history, tomorrow is mystery, today is a gift!!
With all his heart,
The Doc

 

[soulfly]

bottom FU**KING LINE here
(sorry i'm getting a little worked up...)
this country needs to set some REAL standards as to who can do what at what age!
look, i'm not knocking anyone's "maturity" or "responsibility" here...
at 15 years old i was working 40 hours a week...and going to school... just to stay out of my OWN HOUSE because when i was home my mother would try to bash in my SKULL with anything she could find
but i digress... what i'm trying to say is that just because i was "responsible" or whatever...and probably could have handled raving at that age does not mean it's ok for everyone. If it's ok for 13 year olds to go to raves...then why not lift alcohol laws? and let 8 year olds drive cars if they can pass the driving test?
Look, we are making generalizations about 13-16 year olds and their "maturity" or responsibility...but these generalizations are here for a reason. I'm 22 and it's still not good that i'm putting harmful chems in my body....but regardless i've lived and learned enough for it to be MY body. When i was 12-16, i found happiness in the simplest of things...playing baseball...watching movies etc etc...stuff that wasn't going to hurt my body or make me feel like shit for 4 days after
and you know what??? i WISH TO GOD i could go back to that! i'd give anything to have that again....it's a gift and if you can't enjoy it then, then when will you?
i lost my childhood (ok you can all play the "worlds smallest violin" for me now if you want...i don't give a damn)
i grew up too fast...and i regret it every day...but it hardened me and made me a tougher individual...i can handle just about anything after that bullshit
but drugs weaken you...they make you want to avoid serious situations...or escape somehow (usually with more drugs)
i'd love to see a 13 year old work my job...pay my rent...deal with the amount of shit i take on a daily basis... THEN they can EARN themselves the RIGHT to indulge in this sort of thing... yes it's an escape for me...but i never forget where my reality is
i'll keep my second point short:
it was Dr. E (i think...could be wrong) that said he "hates getting hugs from cracked out 12-13 year old girls" AMEN!!! it's not that i mind hugs, i'm all about hugs actually, but it just saddens me...plus a LOT of 13 year old girls have the mentality of "i'll be cool if i try to hook up with an older guy" and you know? i'm all set on that!
quick story... Xmas night i was sitting around, k-d out admittedly, and some girl, couldn't have been older than 14...attemtped to give me a hand job under the damn booth
i don't know if i've been more sickened in my life! needless to say i flew out of that situation immediately....
*shrug*
i don't know... sorry to take up so much space... but i guess bottom line is
we all have to wait the same amount of time to do certain things...and raving should be on that list...
thanks for listening to me ramble...
plur
Oops! sorry...one more thing
Dr E: i was in 100% agreement with you up until the comment about E being a gateway to harder shit...
if you're referring to the young kids...i can kinda see your point
but if that's a general statement...i have to disagree... E actually made me QUIT doing harder stuff...i tried coke...shrooms...etc etc...when i discovered E other drugs just SUCKED... only thing i stuck with other than E was K...
------------------
soulfly
"Knowledge starts with K for a reason"- Dr. John Lilly
*"Hey Train!!! K=Good!"*
**Kamel Red Light Krew**
[This message has been edited by soulfly (edited 10 February 2000).]

 

[pod]

I've stayed clear of this topic for awhile, being a believer that the age limits in this country just plain suck.
Anyhow, it's really spooky to think that there is a whole contingent of really young people dropping e. I have no issue if they want to go to a club or a rave, it's the drugs that can be a problem.
But on the other side of the coin, I know 20 year olds who can't handle their drugs, i.e. my friend I mentioned in a post a few weeks ago, or this girl I know who just sits on her ass and goes "i'm soooo fucked up" all night.
Age does play a factor, yeah, but it's all about a certain maturity level as well. In that respect I'm glad I honestly didn't get fucked up in any way until I was 18 (even then it was a bit early! I got really drunk one night and decided to dart across six lanes of traffic...). I can only imagine if I had access or the desire to do pills in high school. I probably wouldn't be where I am today if that was the case...

 

[PixieLoca]

I agree entirely, that it sucks to see young girls at parties fucked up outa they're minds. Girls that have little or no experience w/drugs and the scene in general. Where I live there are not really that many parties, so I rarely go out. I used to party in Puerto Rico w/ my friend who lived there, and I had a lot of fun. That is besides my point entirely though. Anyway, I am underage, (17) and that is a lot of the reason why I don't go out that much to begin with. But considering the position of most Kidz my age I have a certain level of maturity, that in my opinion often surpasses that of many people that are older than me. It has a lot to do with the fact of me graduating highschool a year and a 1/2 early, I think. I also have been givin lot's of freedom by my parents, and have been allowed to make my own decisions about my life. I have lived on my own for over a year now, I work forty hours a week, support myself & my dog, and I have a insured vehicle. I have never O.D. on drugs, and have had many wonderful experiences, in spite of my early introduction to the culture. (while my introduction was more to the Hippie culture, rather than the rave...many of the same drugs...different people and outlooks)
Most of my drug experiences have been enlightening, spiritual, & quite lovely. I have always known my limits and stayed within them. (except maybe a few over experimental nights w/tequila)
Now I am feeling like this is going to sound like some self-justification post, but my basic pooint is that age is sometimes not equivilent to level of Responsibility. As a minor who considers herself mature and capable of decision making I would like to ask that everyone take this into consideration and try not to catagorize people by they're ages.
At the same time...looking back on many of the things in my life that forced me to grow up fast, I realize the importance of innocense. Almost every day I think back to some fragment of a blissful child hood memory and wish with all my might that I could have that precious moment back...even for just a second. Being young is so wonderful, and I often feel sad when I see kids growing up too fast, and turning to drugs at younger and younger ages...knowing less and less about what they are loosing. That is part of the reason why I feel Bluelight is so cool...The New to XTC board is so cool. It is a great way to help people that need info. to get they're questions answered. Even if it is not entirely accurate all the time...it gives people a preety close idea of the truth. Informing the youth is key.
Next time you see a fucked up kid at a party..help them out. Ask them what is wrong...give them a hug...something to play with...be nice and maybe you can make a difference.
-)ixieLoca

 

[BaDBoY]

I think they should definitely stick to a strict 18+ rule at all party's. Ive seen so many young kids and it does hurt the scene. It's seem like if ur a hott girl u would have little or no problem getting in.
------------------
SHOUT OUTS 2 - SMAD,TRAIN,SPIDER,JAY-E,EDDIE,SOULFLY,IRISHGURL,DRGNFLY,JRAVER)

 

[lilrollingurl]

my 19yo bf?? ive been with him for 2 fucking years and we dont fucking have sex so get a fucking life! hes the love of my life-and if you KNEW us you'd know that...but you could care less WHO we are you just wanna go around critisizing me for my age because youre a fucking bitch-and thats soooooo unlike me to say like VERY unlike me to get this upset-but first off im sick with the flu or possibly mono-and ive had a bad week in general. i dont wanna hear your bullshit anymore from all of you who think youre the fucking gods of e and think its just fine and dandy if YOU do go to raves but not me so im leaving this board-once i was beginning to think most ppl here were purdy damn nice and understanding they prove themselves wrong.im gone bluelight. i could care less wut any of u think.

 

[soulfly]

awwww FUUUUCK!!
hear that??? it's the slurping sound of another GREAT post being swallowed up by stupid BULLSHIT!

please nip this in the bud now... do NOT respond to that last post here....PLEASE
i wanna keep an intelligent thread going here
Badboy (what's up, bro? hope to see you this weekend!) makes a great point too
there really is a HUGE double standard as to who they let in with ID's and who they don't...and i've personally noticed that Looks have a LOT to do with it

 

[brand-x]

i think it's sad that people abuse drugs.
i think it's even sadder that children abuse drugs.
i think that it's a downright shame that we as a community so consistently forget how others perceive us and so freely judge the lives and drug habits of others. have we all forgotten what it was like to be young?? in some ways this is the most puritannical group of people i have ever met. we may do drugs, but we qualify our drug use by saying that "i never touched the stuff before i was 18" or "i only roll once a month" or "i read and researched for years before dropping my first pill." WE ARE ALL DRUG USERS. call yourself a responsible drug user, call yourself a pill fiend, call yourself a dick sucking crack smoking junkie whore, but realise that when you choose to judge someone else's drug habit FOR WHATEVER REASON you are being the same judgemental person to these young people that the rest of the world has been to you.
this lack of self-awareness our generation is showing is guaranteed to make us the next hippie generation; from pot smoking rebels to internet ceo's in 25 years.
who wants to bet that we're next?
------------------
"Squeeze human nature into the straitjacket
of criminal justice and crime will appear."
--- Karl Kraus (1908)

 

[PaRaDoX]

PixieLoca: Admitedly, I was much the same way as you. and sure, I thought I was ready, and I may well have been ready. But what about the REST of them? Generalizations are just that. So you don't fit the norm, that's great for you. But the standard (unfortuneately) can't be lowered for a few shining examples.
Soulfly: do you have ANY idea how hard it is to refrain from re-flaming that post? oh my, oh my. You're lucky yer right, and lucky I respect you. =)
*bites his tounge*
oh... and I was the one who can't stand the cracked-out e-hugz from 14 year olds. (FYI)
But sriously people, this is turning into a DESEASE. Maybe we SHOULD be the ones to say something, to educate. But how many of those little people do you think will listen!? I mean, if they are THERE it's basicly the cullmination of them NOT LISTENING. Like I said before, I don't KNOW what the solution is. I realy don't. But what I can say for sure, is that the vibe, the maturity, the safety, and the (frankly) BEST parties I have been to, have ALL been 18+ period, end of story.
------------------
Who you are never realy changes... It's who you THINK you are that does.