i am offended by gay marriage

[Clitnhawk]

@ OP / mrsnowygrainius: "I got a lot of insight from you people but my opinion on the matter has not changed one bit. " - then you didn't try. I explained it clearly. This is NOT a Christian Country. Laws are not supposed to be made for *YOUR* beliefs.
So you can keep your OPINION that gays shouldn't be married. Say it even. But I'll respond as well. Freedom of speech. it works both ways. But if you are active against gay people getting married, then YOU are a problem. Being a re-born Christian makes people kinda wonky, sorry... but I said it. But I'll ask you to read the book from end to end, by your own - without anyone translating its meaning. Nowhere did Jesus say a word about gays.

@The Lost boys: "these law makers are changing the constitution right before our eyes on every topic, not just gay marriage." The Constitution wasn't change for gay marriage. Be honest, do you know anything about the other 26 amendments?
@The Lost boys: "IMO, the govt & supreme court will rewrite the constitution to fit today's society, & here lays the problem for Christianity.......the words of the bible NEVER change," First - noone re-wrote the Constitution.

Here is a quick recap: first Amendment to our Constitution. - "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

Here is the 14th: "Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."

Denying homosexuals the right to marry was UNCONSTITUTIONAL... it was bigotry. What you say about gays is the same thing that people like you said about blacks marrying whites in the OLD days and even today. mrsnowygrainius and you cannot and do not follow the bible fully... its not possible. Now the 2nd part about the bible is funny as shit! Bible gets updates every year or so... and how many versions are there currently? I like this tool, I request you use it... and also specifically read that whole verse.

http://www.biblestudytools.com/parallel-bible/passage/?q=deuteronomy+22:28&t=web&t2=niv

The above link shows about 42 DIFFERENT variants of the bibles currently in USE today. Its handy site for finding things, etc.

You have the right to be a Christian, you DON't have the right to make other people follow your beliefs (ie: make law).... if you do, then move to a country that does.

 

[TheLostBoys]

Lmao...............

 

[TheLostBoys]

Let's place religion out of this debate for now......

Can a gay couple have children naturally? NO.......why is that? Because we as humans weren't made to have sex with the same sex partner. The way we procreate is to have sexual relations with the opposite sex.......same thing goes for the animal kingdom.

I'm not against gay people at all, I just don't think that the title of "marriage" should involve same sex because they can not procreate.

I think that's what the official title of a married couple (male & female) is.......

We all are looking for love & happiness in our lives, & no one should be rejected of it.........

The thing is tho, there's no middle ground when it comes to this topic & inserting the bible in this discussion, because you either agree with what religion teaches & accept it, or you ignore the bible & say I can't & won't read it anymore because it doesn't agree with me & in today's evolving society .

There's no doubt about it, its a very touchy subject.....I'm glad I don't have any children growing up in today's society.

I love everyone, doesn't mean I need to agree with everyone else's opinion just like they don't agree with mine.

 

[alasdairm]

I'm not against gay people at all...

but you just don't believe they should enjoy the same rights as straight couples.

...I just don't think that the title of "marriage" should involve same sex because they can not procreate.

so you also support the idea that couples in which one or both partner(s) is/are infertile should not be allowed to marry?

further, heterosexual couples over a certain age - i.e. couples in which the female partner is no longer able to conceive - should also not be allowed to marry?

even further, straight couples who are fertile but who have made a joint decision to not have children - they're not allowed to marry either, correct?

alasdair

 

[TheLostBoys]

but you just don't believe they should enjoy the same rights as straight couples.
so you also support the idea that couples in which one or both partner(s) is/are infertile should not be allowed to marry?

further, heterosexual couples over a certain age - i.e. couples in which the female partner is no longer able to conceive - should also not be allowed to marry?

even further, straight couples who are fertile but who have made a joint decision to not have children - they're not allowed to marry either, correct?

alasdair

I didn't say any of those things, you're implying I did, your twisting the words.......
You're playing ping pong.......lmao!

 

[alasdairm]

so answer the question.

you believe that gays shouldn't marry because they can't procreate. so ability to procreate is your objection. so are you against marriage for older couples or infertile couples who can't procreate?

if not, why not?

alasdair

 

[CosmicG]

Hit them with the what about married couples that do not procreate question. It gets them every time, as it is the only defense they have in why people that prefer the same gender should not be able to marry. This thinking makes no sense.

 

[Clitnhawk]

Let's place religion out of this debate for now......

Can a gay couple have children naturally? NO.......why is that? Because we as humans weren't made to have sex with the same sex partner. The way we procreate is to have sexual relations with the opposite sex.......same thing goes for the animal kingdom.
I'm not against gay people at all, I just don't think that the title of "marriage" should involve same sex because they can not procreate.

Marriage is *A CIVIL RIGHT*. Simple as that. Hence, its UNCONSITUTIONAL of the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA to deny that rights to homosexuals. It doesn't MATTER WHAT THE HELL, YOU THINK!

And you are WRONG, thousands of thousands of gay men and women are biological parents for many reasons. Like they had children before coming out of the closet.
Also, there are 7 billion people in this planet. Your ideology of "procreation" is a religious one, so you brought religion back into your argument. When I married my wife, I was aware she couldn't have children... so with YOUR opinion, we shouldn't have gotten married.

And YES, the word MARRIAGE is fitting, all the reasons it should be. Gay couples have been FUCKED because they were NOT married. Children and been taken from a parent because the other had died and other rights violations that wouldn't have happened.
By using the word MARRIAGE for all, in ALL states - it simplifies our tax code, it simplifies who we handle things, it simplify peoples rights.

We all are looking for love & happiness in our lives, & no one should be rejected of it.........

The thing is tho, there's no middle ground when it comes to this topic & inserting the bible in this discussion, because you either agree with what religion teaches & accept it, or you ignore the bible & say I can't & won't read it anymore because it doesn't agree with me & in today's evolving society.

yeah, thats right.... we're all looking for love... and to call it anything else because its two dudes *IS INSULTING*. Even "Civil Unions" was not the same as Marriage... and its was a shitty way of saying "Not married". Calling someone a Negro is not much better than calling them a Nigger (I am black).. simple equal rights for all, is all that we need. Anything else, is bullshit.

Marriage has NOTHING to do with the bible. Did you bother with the link I provided? I said the bible doesn't change, I proved you wrong. You are allowed to believe whatever man-made god you want, I don't care. I have many Christian friends in which most of them support same sex marriage. I have conservative friends, and people I do business with. We are all Americans and we don't always agree... but the right to love, the right to vote, the rights to be the same as everyone else should be the same.

I don't have to follow your bible, its a book of stores from men who thought the earth was flat and used their left hands to wipe their butts. They used fantasy to fill in the gaps of information to tell their children "Why is the sky blue" - because God made it.
No, he didn't. it's blue because the sunlight is reflecting the the atmosphere, which reflect a blue shift because of the type of atmosphere it is. Mars isn't blue because its different from ours. I don't follow a God who has killed millions of people because he got upset that someone insulted him. I don't follow a God who demands we kiss his ass... that isn't "free will".

 

[CosmicG]

^ This debate is over, and was from the start. Accept it and learn to deal with it.

Nice post clitnhawk.

 

[Erikmen]

Yes it was! It totally drew my attention and it's all good 'in all accounts'.
Indeed, nicely put @clitnhawk!

 

[TheLostBoys]

Lol, OK, so you made yourself & a few others happy.......now, fine, hand out marriage licenses, .....where I do care is the next step.

Gay people deserve to get married & have a license, but they won't stop there......they will want to get married in a church, & the bible states:



Leviticus 20:13 - If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood [shall be] upon them.


Please don't tell me what the bible says, I think I know a little bit about it........


I know for sure that a lot of orthodox priests won't wed a gay couple. Evangilicals will wed gay couples, it was announced by their bishops, & that means they're creating an abomination......

You wanted to know what the bible states, & you got it.........

 

[CosmicG]

You are an abomination. Burn your bible and worship satan. It's all the same really.

 

[TheLostBoys]

^ This debate is over, and was from the start. Accept it and learn to deal with it.

Nice post clitnhawk.

The governor of Louisiana stated he will not hand out marriage licenses to gay couples, he doesn't care what the supreme court ruled.......I believe there's a county in Texas as well........there will quite a few more popping up........

 

[TheLostBoys]

You are an abomination. Burn your bible and worship satan. It's all the same really.

Lmao, smart response, I figured I would get that from you after I gave the answer you hated to see, haha.......

Oh how sad this world is when others don't agree with another's reasoning..... Oh how bright another's colors shine when in despair.......

 

[CosmicG]

That's good for them.

Everyone has the same and equal right to be an asshole if they so choose. The change is coming, and you aren't ready for it. It scares you, because it goes against everything you believe in. I feel sorry for you.

 

[Clitnhawk]

[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]Benefits of legal marriage:[/FONT]

[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]Death:[/FONT] If a couple is not married and one partner dies, the other partner is not entitled to bereavement leave from work, to file wrongful death claims, to draw the Social Security of the deceased partner, or to automatically inherit a shared home, assets, or personal items in the absence of a will.
Debts: Unmarried partners do not generally have responsibility for each other's debt.
Divorce: Unmarried couples do not have access to the courts, structure, or guidelines in times of break-up, including rules for how to handle shared property, child support, and alimony, or protecting the weaker party and kids.
Family leave: Unmarried couples are often not covered by laws and policies that permit people to take medical leave to care for a sick spouse or for the kids.
Health: Unlike spouses, unmarried partners are usually not considered next of kin for the purposes of hospital visitation and emergency medical decisions. In addition, they can't cover their families on their health plans without paying taxes on the coverage, nor are they eligible for Medicare and Medicaid coverage.
Housing: Denied marriage, couples of lesser means are not recognized and thus can be denied or disfavored in their applications for public housing.
Immigration: U.S. residency and family unification are not available to an unmarried partner from another country.
Inheritance: Unmarried surviving partners do not automatically inherit property should their loved one die without a will, nor do they get legal protection for inheritance rights such as elective share or bypassing the hassles and expenses of probate court.
Insurance: Unmarried partners can't always sign up for joint home and auto insurance. In addition, many employers don't cover domestic partners or their biological or non-biological children in their health insurance plans.
Portability: Unlike marriages, which are honored in all states and countries, domestic partnerships and other alternative mechanisms only exist in a few states and countries, are not given any legal acknowledgment in most, and leave families without the clarity and security of knowing what their legal status and rights will be.
Parenting: Unmarried couples are denied the automatic right to joint parenting, joint adoption, joint foster care, and visitation for non-biological parents. In addition, the children of unmarried couples are denied the guarantee of child support and an automatic legal relationship to both parents, and are sometimes sent a wrongheaded but real negative message about their own status and family.
Privilege: Unmarried couples are not protected against having to testify against each other in judicial proceedings, and are also usually denied the coverage in crime victims counseling and protection programs afforded married couples.
Property: Unmarried couples are excluded from special rules that permit married couples to buy and own property together under favorable terms, rules that protect married couples in their shared homes and rules regarding the distribution of the property in the event of death or divorce.
Retirement: In addition to being denied access to shared or spousal benefits through Social Security as well as coverage under Medicare and other programs, unmarried couples are denied withdrawal rights and protective tax treatment given to spouses with regard to IRA's and other retirement plans.
Taxes: Unmarried couples cannot file joint tax returns and are excluded from tax benefits and claims specific to marriage. In addition, they are denied the right to transfer property to one another and pool the family's resources without adverse tax consequences.

 

[alasdairm]

why won't you answer my question, thelostboys?

third time of asking. you believe that gays shouldn't marry because they can't procreate. so ability to procreate is your objection. so are you against marriage for older couples or infertile couples who can't procreate?

if not, why not?

alasdair

 

[Bardeaux]

We have become a world w/o morals, we have lost our compass in the woods & can't seem to find the path out.

During which period of history did humanity as a whole have the "correct" set of morals and values?

It's almost as if.... morality was relative......

 

[JessFR]

This is so retarded...

I agree that the churches should not be made to marry people against their religious beliefs.

But it's completely irrelevant. The fear that one day they may be made to does not in any way invalidate the first issue which is that gays should be able to get married. If one day they want to make people go against their personal beliefs by force, I'll be right there with you condemning that. But even then I'll still believe they have the right to be married. Just not by whomever they want.

It's pretty obvious no amount of logic and reason will change anything here. You could spend a year of your life one on one with a single fanatic before you get through to them. That effort would be better spent keeping more people from being taught to live having completely turned off their brain because their idea of god requires it of them apparently.

 

[Clitnhawk]

There are ministers who won't marry mixed race couples... since its his church, he doesn't have too. Still a bigot and a turd in my book.