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Opioids How to reduce thebaine in poppy tea?

G_Chem said:
Too funny, well looks like I didn’t even need to respond either...

And yea anything will degrade with heat, that said I know for a fact morphine can withstand up to 160C, so boiling water won’t do shit to it. But yea keep making yourself look like an idiot, it’s fun to watch.

-GC
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Seriously lol. He's tenacious I'll give him that. Wrong, but tenacious.
 
as a resident chemistry expert, I'm pretty sure none of the opioid alkaloids will degrade when boiled in water (exception: if the water is very acidic, things like morphine -> apomorphine may happen)

I also don't like to base an extraction on guesswork. If I was doing this I would at least confirm you have thebaine in the tea by running a TLC (or better yet GCMS/LCMS). Bioassay can be very misleading, and there is no sense in trying to extract something that is not actually there.

If you do have thebaine there, a trivial seperation of thebaine (and codeine) from morphine would be basifying with calcium hydroxide forming water soluble calcium morphinate & insoluble thebaine freebase.
 
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Selenite404 said:
You're supposed to cold water wash poppy seeds to make poppy seed tea... maybe the heat is extracting more thebaine from the seeds/pods? Heat + Opiates ='s destruction of the opiate... so maybe you're destroying what you want out of the pods and just getting a cup full of the leftovers? I used poppy seed tea for three years straight chipping, never had a thebaine problem.

Don't know why anyone would be heating an opiate...?
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because there's a risk that dried pods might have pathogens/bacteria/mold on them, so boiling them in water might kill off any of these undesirable substances that you do not want to ingest.

As opium is smoked - which reaches temperatures in excess of 100 degrees C - there shouldn't be a problem in the morphine being destroyed or degraded, no?
 
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sekio said:
as a resident chemistry expert, I'm pretty sure none of the opioid alkaloids will degrade when boiled in water (exception: if the water is very acidic, things like morphine -> apomorphine may happen)
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Does this mean you should avoid putting lemon juice into your boiling pod water (as it's acidic?)
 
Forever Changes said:
Does this mean you should avoid putting lemon juice into your boiling pod water (as it's acidic?)
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So @sekio can correct me if I’m wrong but apomorphine requires fairly acidic conditions, lemon juice will have negligible effect.

That said, added acidity can increase Thebaine levels compared to a brew made without it.

-GC
 
He didn't mean lemon juice, the amount added in poppy decoctions are quite minimal.
 
How addictive would one say the tea is? Most people have more of a problem with oxycodone despite it being strictly synthesized from thebaine (iirc). Always so strange to me how addicts hate thebaine usually but they're wonder drug is made from it.

I really want to purchase the seeds for some days but I don't want to withdraw from all 30 something alkloids--and drinking it everyday isn't ideal for me because of how long/sedating the effects are. I tried it a while back but the seeds were contaminated or I did the wash wrong. Not fun but curious about trying it right this time. It also seems so hard to discern the amount in terms of HR. Not only because the seed potency varies but also because the blanket of warmth peaks so much later o_O
 
^^^^Poppy seed and poppy pod tea has one of the worst withdrawal syndromes of any opioid, as its both of long duration and high intensity. Its almost as bad as methadone withdrawal.
 
negrogesic said:
^^^^Poppy seed and poppy pod tea has one of the worst withdrawal syndromes of any opioid, as its both of long duration and high intensity. Its almost as bad as methadone withdrawal.
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Is this stating with confidence that someone who previously liked opioids wouldn't be able to stick to using it once in a blue moon?
 
GetMeOutOfThisCRAP said:
Is this stating with confidence that someone who previously liked opioids wouldn't be able to stick to using it once in a blue moon?
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No definitely not, it is possible to use it with moderation if you're careful. I am able to pull this off but there is almost always some price tag. I had a strong dose of poppy pod tea last friday and my joints have ached a bit since Sunday, and my stomach and sleep have been a bit off but I think it's about over. That said, exactly 7 days before last Friday I kicked a small kratom habit so I was more sensitive to withdrawal. I can say with some confidence that Poppy pod/seed tea can be used once a month without producing any withdrawal symptoms (or barely perceptible).

Poppy pod/seed (they feel pretty similar, in some ways I think I might like very good poppy seed tea better -- I can't believe I'm saying that, I always thought poppy seed tea was bogus until recently). Poppy seed tea has a slower onset and longer duration due to the liposomes created by oils present with the seeds and the shaking action when making it (which form a lipid envelope around the alkaloids, thus effectively creating an extended release preparation). Pod tea hits harder and faster, but a strong batch of poppy seed tea lasts quite a bit longer and is smoother. Pod tea is has a more reliable effect, with seeds having more variability. Poppy seed tea kind of reminds me of methadone.

But like methadone the withdrawal is horrible. I've never been through poppy seed tea withdrawal but from all accounts it appears to terrible. I have sort of been through poppy pod tea withdrawal as I used to drink it every day for around 8 months but I switched to tramadol so I never got a full sense of it.
 
negrogesic said:
No definitely not, it is possible to use it with moderation if you're careful. I am able to pull this off but there is almost always some price tag. I had a strong dose of poppy pod tea last friday and my joints have ached a bit since Sunday, and my stomach and sleep have been a bit off but I think it's about over. That said, exactly 7 days before last Friday I kicked a small kratom habit so I was more sensitive to withdrawal. I can say with some confidence that Poppy pod/seed tea can be used once a month without producing any withdrawal symptoms (or barely perceptible).

Poppy pod/seed (they feel pretty similar, in some ways I think I might like very good poppy seed tea better -- I can't believe I'm saying that, I always thought poppy seed tea was bogus until recently). Poppy seed tea has a slower onset and longer duration due to the liposomes created by oils present with the seeds and the shaking action when making it (which form a lipid envelope around the alkaloids, thus effectively creating an extended release preparation). Pod tea hits harder and faster, but a strong batch of poppy seed tea lasts quite a bit longer and is smoother. Pod tea is has a more reliable effect, with seeds having more variability. Poppy seed tea kind of reminds me of methadone.

But like methadone the withdrawal is horrible. I've never been through poppy seed tea withdrawal but from all accounts it appears to terrible. I have sort of been through poppy pod tea withdrawal as I used to drink it every day for around 8 months but I switched to tramadol so I never got a full sense of it.
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Doesn't seed tea depend entirely on how much opium has rubbed off onto the seeds, and there's no real way of knowing?

Anyway I've used pod tea (ground up pods) quite a few times and didn't experience anything pleasant from it to be honest, mainly just very sick the next day. What is your method of preparation?
 
It's definitely rough as hell on the metabolism. There's so many alkloids. I imagine that the body needs to adjust to it to get the full effects. The first time was 45 minutes of euphoria.. then itchiness from another planet. I would've gotten a good stare if I was in public that day. I threw the batch out but maybe I did the wash very poorly or something. Left the seeds exposed to open air for a while before doing a second wash. I don't see how that would have made the tea itchiness and dysphoria for 5 days in a row though.
 
GetMeOutOfThisCRAP said:
It's definitely rough as hell on the metabolism. There's so many alkloids. I imagine that the body needs to adjust to it to get the full effects. The first time was 45 minutes of euphoria.. then itchiness from another planet. I would've gotten a good stare if I was in public that day. I threw the batch out but maybe I did the wash very poorly or something. Left the seeds exposed to open air for a while before doing a second wash. I don't see how that would have made the tea itchiness and dysphoria for 5 days in a row though.
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How many grams did you use to get the initial euphoria?
 
does anyone think that drinking grapefruit juice with the poppy pods will enhance or inhibit the effects?
 
Forever Changes said:
does anyone think that drinking grapefruit juice with the poppy pods will enhance or inhibit the effects?
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Supposedly it has to be white grapefruit. I have no idea the phuck why but there's a certain enzyme or something that's not present in red grapefruit where white grapefruit potentiate opiates. I find that it enhances opiates a little bit but it's not going to be mindblowing high just because you've eaten grapefruit with some drugs lol.

I'm ordering some seeds :) I just need something occasionallyy opiates wise. I would really like to not go through seed tea withdrawal praying an anvil falls on my head every second teehee. Mustn't ever drink seed tea daily.
 
The effect wouldnt be specific to white grapefruit. Both would contain the sames flavonoids that inhibit CYP3A4, though it will be in different amounts, with white grapefruit supposedly having more of an effect.
 
negrogesic said:
The effect wouldnt be specific to white grapefruit. Both would contain the sames flavonoids that inhibit CYP3A4, though it will be in different amounts, with white grapefruit supposedly having more of an effect.
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why would you want to in inhibit the enzyme - doesn't it help turn the pod tea into morphine?
 
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