how much AMT is a dangerous overdose?

[《Plasticity》]

60mgs sound high for a first dose but 30 is too low IMO, go with 1 1/2. The only problem with "pellets" (if that's what you mean when you say capsules) is that they may not be evenly spread thoughout the pill or may very well be under doses but it is better than eyballing. Why not just order a 25$ gemini-20 scale from amazon? The price difference between capsules vs oral will practically pay for the scale and you will have a scale for other substances in the future, the best investment you can make.

Word of advice to anyone reading this, NEVER eyeball aMT! Little ass rocks can weigh up to 20-30mgs and if you compare two piles of 50mgs they won't even look the same. aMT is the most un-uniform substance I've ever had to work with and eyeballing it would be very silly. aMT was my first trip and it left an impression on me that to this day, here I am 6+ years later raving about it, it's wonderfull stuff but just so you know, you might be one of the people who don't enjoy it. If your gonna take it orally expect a rough first couple hours but after you get through the worst you will be rewarded with the best 14+ hours of beauty that is aMT.

 

[isthisincognito]

60mg's (two 30mg pellets) was my first ever dose, It's also worth noting I was naive of psychedelics at this point (Only previous drug experience was "MDMA", and various stimulants).

It was incredibly memorable experience, and I did have some anxiety (being my first psychedelic experience, I was a little on edge). In hindsight I should of taken around 50mg, but I do not regret the dose, although I did have a mild headache throughout.

I rarely dose 60mg's now, normally 50-55mg.

This.
If you really want to push the envelope, I would recommend smoking some weed when you are getting close to peaking. I find that it really potentiates the aMT - the most intense visuals I have had have always been when I used another substance when I was peaking. The same goes for Ketamine although I'm not sure how sensible the combination is - it gave me my most intense drug experience ever. It might be a little overwhelming holing whilst on aMT for some.

That sounds like an awesome combo, but I'm wary at trying ketamine in combination, it's such a powerful drug. I tried it once with 25b nbome, and it ended up in what I thought was a panic attack, although I talked to my friend who's a paramedic with secamb, and he said it sounded like an Ectopic Beat.

But I've later come to understand that if I IM to much ketamine in one go, this always happens (One would assume a predisposition). Still leaves me wary of using it in combination.

Having tried aMT many, many times. I would say 50-60mg is probably around the sweet spot. YMMV.

aMT =

I'll second that.

^ I can co-sign with the above post except that I find that the bodyload gets worse with lower doses. I've worked my way up over the years from 40 to 80mgs and I find that the higher I push the dose the smoother the come-up and side-effects are (ironic). The one time I took 30mgs I felt lime SHIT for the whole trip, it was like a never ending fever fest with the worst headache of my life. If you don't mind plugging drugs it's by far the superior ROA with aMT and makes the come-up a hell of alot smoother and to date I've yet to puke using this ROA whereas I will definately be puking my guts out orally, always have unfortunately.

In doses I've tried in the 10-30mg range, the negatives tend to be more perceivable, I wouldn't say it's any less negative than a 50mg dose, but due to the lack of positives manifesting, it feels more balanced towards a negative experience.

Also, with plugging, does it shorten the duration? That was one reason I was looking into vaping AMT, shorter duration, faster onset.

P.S Sorry if it sounds like I'm Hijacking this thread

 

[《Plasticity》]

My first experience was with "50 mgs", I took the vendors word for it and just downed the powder without scaling it out, looking back that dose was at least a good 100 mgs as I actually blacked out for about 5 hours during the peak and only have memories of flying through cities made of fractals. I also watched portals of fully 3 dimensional shapes open up before my eyes in my room. I have NEVER tripped so hard in my life and it was fucking amazing! By far the best first trip I could ever ask for...zero regrets whatsoever. However, if you read through the B&D threads there are users complaining of overwhelming experiences in the 50+mg range so for HR sake I think 45mgs is a good starting dose for a rather inexperienced tripper.

Having explored every ROA sans IM/IV I'm gonna go out and say vaping aMT is shit and I wouldn't bother wasting material with that ROA. When vaped, aMT losses the majority of it's visual aspect, as well as euphoria and turns the trip very speedy and jittery, totally losses it's magic for me. Plugging is by for the superior ROA, It does bring the duration down, to about 10-12 hours for me but usually I'm near baseline by 10h. It also brings the bodyload down a fuckload, instead of being sick for 3 hours I'm sick for maybe 45mins-1 hour. It still takes 3 hours to peak though which I find strange. If your working with the freebase your gonna have to dissolve the powder in vinegar (use as little as possible), then dilute it and squirt it up your ass with an oral syringe. You need vinegar as aMT freebase doesn't dissolve in water. I would give it a shot, after plugging once I could never go with any other ROA.

 

[isthisincognito]

Ascorbic (Vit C) would would work too? I have some sterile sachets of them, so that would be my preference.

I have no problem with IM/IV (although, it's not a ROA I'd currently consider for AMT) but the thought of plugging doesn't appeal, it has to be said.

AMT never makes me sick, it rarely makes me nauseous, and I can eat fine on it too. I count myself quite lucky.

However, if I could knock down the duration of AMT, it would be useful. I always set aside two days for an AMT trip (day 1 trip, day 2 to recoup), and thus results in me not doing AMT too often. If i could get this into a day, it would be useful, if not, I still appreciate AMT how it is.

 

[《Plasticity》]

I'm not sure if vitamin c works, it might... it should convert aMT FB to aMT ascorbate I guess, whether it's soluble in water IDK. I know people use HCL from a hardware store but sounds like it would burn pretty bad. Just test it out with a small amount of FB. I can understand that the thought of plugging isn't appealing but I can suck up the 10 seconds of shame in order to reap the benefits which for me are huge, since your one of the lucky few who get no bodyload it may not be worth it for you, that's up to the user to decide. When I plug aMT I usually do so around 2pm and am asleep by 1 or 2 am if I don't redose, which is my usual bedtime anyways so done this way definately makes aMT more flexable a drug. It should also be said that the dose for rectal is the same as oral.

Ps00donym IM's aMT so I'm sure he's got info on that ROA. The only thing that has stopped me from sticking aMT in a needle and IM'ing it is the fact that aMT FB seems unstable and current batches are of notoriously low quality, if a high quality HCL was accessable I would have no problems doing the deed but for now I'll save the risk of abcess. I certainly wouldn't want to IV it, if you do decide to shoot it go with a nice IM shot to the thigh or something, it would be wise to use a micron filter though.

 

[isthisincognito]

Yeah, I tend to IM into the thigh, I can get citric acid, I just have Ascorbic on hand (both from the exchange, so medical grade).

If I was to use acetic, would I just use white spirit vinegar (also known as distilled). Is that just dilute acetic acid?

In the UK aMT is legal, so good quality isn't hard to come buy. I've only had one batch, so I have consistency, stored in an amber vial, in a clip lock bag, in the dark (so limited light & oxidation).

This batch is maybe 2 and a bit years old, but I've not noticed any deterioration, I still have over a gram left.

Any idea of duration for IM/IV?

 

[《Plasticity》]

All aMT I'm referring to is from the UK, aMT is impossible to find in the US. Anyways, if your batch is a couple years old and stored in a proper vial then your batch is likely good to IM. I'm speaking about the more recent batches. The last two batches I've gotten from the UK, which were said to be 98+%, were obviously not and it was very obvious when compared to the more quality batches seen back in the day. This has been discussed on a couple vendor sites.

If your gonna just dilute the ascorbic acid with distilled vinegar then there's no point in adding the ascorbic acid in the first place as the whole point of using these acids and such is to add a base to the aMT. aMT fb and distilled vinegar forms aMT acetate and aMT and ascorbic acid forms aMT ascorbate, I'm not sure what happens chemically when you combine both bases. I would just choose one or the other I think, I have never IM'ed aMT though so I don't know too much on this ROA. I would imagine it would sting the fuck out of your thigh if you diluted an acid with another acid, try and see if you can dissolve aMT in water and ascorbic acid and if it dissolves then you should be good. Like I said though it wouldn't hurt to run it through some sort of filter, a micron filter would be ideal.

EDIT: Sorry I totally misread your post, yes, distilled white vinegar is just diluted acetic acid and it's what I use. Just add as little vinegar to your material as needed and once dissolved dilute it with water to prevent burn. However, since you have medical grade acetic acid I would see if that works first. Duration is ~8 hours according to Psood0nym

Here's a usefull quote taken from one of Psood's threads...

NSFW:

"IM injection lowers the needed dose by more than 50 percent (maybe up to ~70 percent) in my estimation and also shortens the onset time and overall duration (~1hr to plateau, 8hr duration at 15 - 20 mg, with 10 – 12 mg being sub-psychedelic, but YMMV!), making aMT trips more conservative and convenient."

 

[isthisincognito]

It's starting to sound like a more worthwhile avenue for me to explore, I'll have a search for some of Psood0nym's posts on the matter. Particularly I'd like to know what he deems as an oral dose, so I can put context on his IM dose. (example: If he takes 90mg orally, and claims 15-20mg to be IM, then 15mg IM would probably be far too high for me).

I'll try ascorbic, failing that I'll wait until I get citric. I have no AMT trips planned for the near future, so I'm in no rush.

My micron filters are 5 microns, I've searched for lower but never come across them at a reasonable price point, but they should be enough to filter to down to a relatively pure solution.

I'll start low and titrate up, AMT really isn't something I'd want to blindly dose.

Thanks for all your answers, I've learnt more in this thread than I have scouring the forums for information

 

[psood0nym]

It's starting to sound like a more worthwhile avenue for me to explore, I'll have a search for some of Psood0nym's posts on the matter. Particularly I'd like to know what he deems as an oral dose, so I can put context on his IM dose. (example: If he takes 90mg orally, and claims 15-20mg to be IM, then 15mg IM would probably be far too high for me).

I'll try ascorbic, failing that I'll wait until I get citric. I have no AMT trips planned for the near future, so I'm in no rush.

My micron filters are 5 microns, I've searched for lower but never come across them at a reasonable price point, but they should be enough to filter to down to a relatively pure solution.

I'll start low and titrate up, AMT really isn't something I'd want to blindly dose.

Thanks for all your answers, I've learnt more in this thread than I have scouring the forums for information

Intramuscularly (IM), I estimate the plateau of 20 - 25 mg of aMT HCl to have a similar subjective intensity to 55 - 70mg orally. It's been a long time since I've used it orally, though, and most of those oral experiences were with the freebase. That's why I stated IM lowers the dose by "maybe up to ~70 percent" earlier (that estimate does take account of the molecular weight difference). My standard recreational dose of the freebase was 60mg, BTW (that was good for me [180lbs] and a 150lb friend, but one time ended up nearly freaking out a 260lb guy). And yes, distilled white vinegar is just diluted acetic acid. Even a regular bottle of the stuff from the grocery store, if unopened, should be pretty damned clean, even if it's not technically medical grade.

When I estimate durations, like the 8hr duration CaptainKratom quotes me for, I mean the time during which I feel that I'm still properly tripping rather than merely "feeling loopy" from a psychedelic's residual effects (which are too subtle and too long lasting to include). Whatever you estimate the total time commitment of the oral roue to be, including the onset, I'd say subtract four or five hours. The beauty of IM is that you can titrate up during the same trip, even with something slow to onset like aMT. It takes me maybe 45 minutes to an hour to plateau from an IM aMT dose, but I've got a sense of my trajectory and where it's going to level off at between 10 to 20 minutes after finishing injection.

 

[JTrippy]

I'm quite amazed by some of the responses on here. I first tried aMT about 2 months ago and I regularly use it and always dose at least 90mg. Also I should note I have never done any other psychedelics apart from nos if that counts and i have never done MDMA either. Honestly I think 90mg is the best amount, I just love the feeling of being completely trippy and just looking around at what you can see haha.

 

[Tranced]

What adverse effects were experienced?

None! It felt like I'd taken a load of MDA. I kept trying to mix tunes on my decks then I'd realise I was actually lying on my bed with a rattling jaw, fucked on AMT.

 

[lovepsychadelics]

^ I can co-sign with the above post except that I find that the bodyload gets worse with lower doses. I've worked my way up over the years from 40 to 80mgs and I find that the higher I push the dose the smoother the come-up and side-effects are (ironic). The one time I took 30mgs I felt lime SHIT for the whole trip, it was like a never ending fever fest with the worst headache of my life. If you don't mind plugging drugs it's by far the superior ROA with aMT and makes the come-up a hell of alot smoother and to date I've yet to puke using this ROA whereas I will definately be puking my guts out orally, always have unfortunately.



What makes you say this? I've consumed sligtly over quarter gram amounts to myself within a 48 hour period (NOT reccomended) with zero side-effects beyond mass amounts of hilarity, euphoric orgasmic bliss, and lot's of wild sex with the GF and that's with other psychs on top, good shit. Re-dosing aMT (which shouldn't be done as it's a very potent monoamine releaser) is also extremely smooth compared to the initial dose which can be rough at times.

It was in combination with MXE and I had 0 psychedelic tolerance going into the experience. I think it had been a good few months between psychedelic doses. It was enjoyable but intense. I sweated, I swayed on my feet, I burst into fits of laughter, I scared the crap out of my friends who cam over to indulge in some MXE. Being greeted at the door by someone almost manic on dissociatives and aMT is probably not an everyday event for most people. I had a variety of adverse effects but at the end of the day I ended up being ok at hour 3 and even indulged in more MXE and some 2ci at that point. So it was more of a piss take TBH.

The intensity of the come on was no doubt magnified by the MXE. Indeed I've had SS after overdoing the K and 2cb. It was not pretty. But the aMT experience was ok after the peak ended. I was able to engage in conversation. My friends laughed at me for overdoing things (as usual) we smoked some bud, did more mxe, took some 2ci (my friends declined) and drank a glass of red wine (not something I usually do). So yeah it was ok but not a very sociable experience. Not like I died or anything just looked like a bit of a drug crazed loony.

Oh yeah I had a good puke at one point. Clinging to the bowl spewing while everything is a blur of psychedelic visuals is not a good thing ever but it usually helps get over the fuckedupness, at least IME.

 

[《Plasticity》]

^ While many people, myself included (although never over 40mgs spaced out, usually 20), have taken MXE with aMT succesfully it's still contraindicated with monoamine releasers. If you ever decide to take aMT again lay off the MXE, K is alot safer with these types of combos. All that aside it sounds like you had a rather fun time

I'm quite amazed by some of the responses on here. I first tried aMT about 2 months ago and I regularly use it and always dose at least 90mg. Also I should note I have never done any other psychedelics apart from nos if that counts and i have never done MDMA either. Honestly I think 90mg is the best amount, I just love the feeling of being completely trippy and just looking around at what you can see haha.

I hope your not reccomending anyone start their trials at 90mgs . While 90mgs is good for you and around what I dose, this is a harm reduction site and there are plenty of reports of people being overwhelmed at doses that are half what your speaking of so it would be wise to start no higher than 50mgs and work your way up. 15+ hours is a long ass time to be uncomfortable and or overwhelmed.

 

[Chatative]

That sounds like an awesome combo, but I'm wary at trying ketamine in combination, it's such a powerful drug. I tried it once with 25b nbome, and it ended up in what I thought was a panic attack, although I talked to my friend who's a paramedic with secamb, and he said it sounded like an Ectopic Beat.

But I've later come to understand that if I IM to much ketamine in one go, this always happens (One would assume a predisposition). Still leaves me wary of using it in combination.

I would rate it as a +++(+) experience. I don't think it really classifies as a ++++ considering there was no otherworldly clarity to it.

On that occasion I took 60mg of aMT + another 20mg 1 hour in & insufflated a few big lines of Ketamine as I was peaking, having no tolerance at the time. I think I used around 500mg of Ketamine over a an hour or so. I was literally just insufflating the stuff out the baggie. I was lucky there wasn't anymore left as I would have kept going lol!

It started out with intense visuals & pure bliss; I then I slipped under & lost myself in a crazy headspace. I was basically pondering the purpose of human life & decided it was to experience pleasure. This epiphany came after I was experiencing waves of pure euphoria whilst trapped in a repetitive non-sensical pattern of thoughts. (think "la, la, la <pure pleasure> la, la, la ) For most of this experience I was sitting in a chair but was so far gone I wasn't aware of my vision or surroundings.

When I came to, I plugged my iPod in, put on some Bassnectar & insufflated the last of my Ketamine. The "Where is My Mind" Bootleg & "Boombox" were a proper headfuck

Not a combination for the faint hearted - being stuck in a repetitive thought pattern & feeling 'trapped' was a little frightening despite the waves of euphoria. An epic experience overall but I won't be rushing to repeat it, it was probably a bit reckless.

 

[isthisincognito]

I think I've taken this thread way off topic with my questions now, if I should be posting elsewhere (I.E. an aMT megathread, then please direct me to do so).

I know that you provide dosage for aMT hcl, I'd be going either for acetate, citrate, or ascorbate.

I'm actually leaning towards using acetic, how much freebase would you use to convert to hcl. If you could say x amount of freebase yields to x amount of hcl, it would save me trying to do the calculations on difference between hcl and Ac.

I'm trying to get my figures in my head

The molecular weights

aMT freebase is 171 g/mol
hydrochloride is 36.5 g/mol
aMT HCl is 207.5 g/mol.

100 mg aMT HCl equivalent to (171/207.5)*100 = 82.41 mg of the free base

Acetic acid is 60.05 g/mol

So AMT acetate would be 231.05 g/mol

100 mg aMT Ac (171/231.05)*100 = 74.01 mg of the free base

If I say your dose was 20mg amt hcl, divide mine by 5 (82.41 / 5 = 16.48) so you would use 16mg freebase to yield 20 mg hcl injection.

Whereas mine using acetic acid, would be 14mg freebase, to yield the same effect.

The acetic acid in spirit vinegar being diluted, would I need to compensate for that?.

Am I over complicating this? I've written all this out now, and realised it's probably completely irrelevant, a 2mg discrepancy in dose, especially when I'm basing the dosage on your subjective experience is unlikely to lead me to a train wreck.

I've written that out now, and don't really want to delete it, but think I'm off on an irrelevant tangent.

Would I just be best sticking say 15mg amt freebase into some sterile water (from a glass amp) and then just dripping spirit viniger in until it's dissolved, run through micron filter and inject?

Would I even need the water, considering the spirit vinegar will already be a fairly dilute acetate solution.

If I do pursue this, I'll start trials at 1mg (tester, I always do this), then perhaps 8mg titrating up to my threshold.

 

[lovepsychadelics]

CaptainKratom I'm well aware of the risks of MXE and aMT etc. I ended up with SS after doing aMT, 5/6 apb, ethyphenidate, MXE, etizolam etc. It was a 4 day drug fest and boy did I pay the price. Hey that is what drugs do. I'm a registered nurse I know what the various neurotransmitters etc do and the adverse effects of said doses. However sometimes I do get into a bit of a binge cycle. I just don't want the pleasure to stop. That is when disaster strikes. Judgement becomes impaired doses are not weighed correctly or even at all. Then you pay the piper. The aftermath is usually 3-4 days of sickness, feeling like death etc. Then your are all good. Had to have the window open all night mid winter in Paris due to my core body temp being somewhere well above where it should have been on the train wreck outlined in this post. VERY DANGEROUS and STUPID. But hey a kid in a candy store.

Kinda over aMT now days to be honest. The only tryptamines I use are 4 aco dmt, 4 aco met, 4 ho met, 40 ho mipt, AL LAD and soon to tryout a new sources LSZ!! Still hit the 2cx's and NB's 25n nbome has become my new fav after 25b nbome. Got some 3cp on it's way as well. My fav drugs are K, MXE and 3 meo pcp. Like my benzo's as well. Gone right off the stims. Maybe some meth with the 3 meo pcp but that's about it. All cocktails are potentially dangerous as fuck. A low dose oral opiates with the tryptamines ain't to bad either.

HR sake please take note of CaptainKratoms outline of the dangers of mixing aMT and MXE. That is what we are here for on BL, HR and not jerking off about stupidly high doses of drugs and how by some miracle we are still alive (mostly talking about myself in this example). Please be safe be responsible and have fun especially if your new. However even the most experienced psy-fiend can come unstuck from time to time by being reckless.

 

[Chatative]

Am I over complicating this?

I don't know the ins-and-outs of IV drug use but it sounds like you are, yes. You're not running a Laboratory for GSK

It sounds like you have the knowledge to go ahead & do what you choose...

 

[isthisincognito]

I was thinking more in the respect of making up larger batches for storage.

But more importantly, whilst a small difference is somewhat insignificant in these regards, I know that if i start doing something wrong, I will continue to do it wrong, and at some point I may make the error with a substance where a few mg's discrepancy is a disaster.

Back more towards the thread topic in regards to MXE & AMT combinations.

If anyone's ever to consider this, lower both doses.

For example, If you're comfortable taking 60mg amt and 100mg mxe. To use them in combination, you should drop to 40mg amt and 40mg mxe. (I've made these dosages up to illustrate a point).

My personal experience is that these kind's of drugs amplify in combination, dissociatives more so. Subtle dissociation seems amplified by psychedelics.

I've never experienced this during combination, but sometimes with mxe can leaver me in utter confusion, or a stupor. Whilst on psychedelics, I can't imagine this being pleasant.

ADDED: With the dosage calculations, this is the point I was trying to make.

Your 25mg AMT hcl dose = 20.6mg AMT freebase (4.4mg being hcl)

So I'd dump 20mg AMT freebase, and titrate Acetic acid in until dissolved, and would yield the same dosage as you recommend. I would start lower, and work towards this mind

 

[Ballz_Trippington]

Of the 4 times I've taken aMT I have only felt the most ridiculously amazing afterglow for about a week to 10 days afterwards. I really like aMT but the afterglow for me is so extraordinary that it almost trumps the aMT trip. This might be because my aMT is pretty degraded and I have not yet tried pure white aMT hcl. I do have a large ammount of hopefully pure freshly synthed aMT on the way though. I have no idea if the experience or afterglow will be any different. But I've never had a hangover from aMT beyond being very tired due to not being ae to sleep (though I'm also an insomniac and thusly constantly in a state of sleep deficit).
I don't think a minor hangover is anything to worry about.

 

[《Plasticity》]

Quotes from polar94's post:

I was somewhat skeptical if I had good aMT since it was light orange coloured powder, and from my research I expected it to be white.

You likely got the freebase which has always been brown to light brown everytime I ordered FB, amost brickdust like powder whereas th HCL is off-white to yellow clumpy powder. Your aMT is fine.

But I was wondering - I'd been taking 5-MeO-DALT in small doses (redosing) for the few days before, but not since almost 24 hours before the aMT. Is this too small a gap? Would any after effects from the 5-MeO-DALT have any impact on the aMT effects (positive or adverse), since they're both tryptamines?

24 hours is nothing, you should space your trips out at least a week or two or you'll dull the trip significantly. Also aMT works on the same receptors as MDxx, APB's, amphetamines, cathinones and all other monoamine releasers as well as 5-ht2a so you wanna have no tolerance to psychedelics and empathogens when taking aMT as aMT should also provide an MDMA like body high with no tolerance to releasers as it's a stronger serotonin releaser than MDMA.

Is this sort of "hangover" from aMT normal?

If I stay hydrated (gatorade and waters perfect), snack of fruit, and take magnesium I never get hangovers (I've taken alot of aMT) besides a slight drained feeling but mentally I'm happy as ever but like BT said it only lasts like a week.