Misc How Can We Improve Other Drugs? v. Calling All OD Miscreants

[Comdownhurtliktrut]

I do like this idea. Because the forum is perfect for brainstorming and debate. It also contains questions that require a lot of thought to get to the right answer. But they are urgent matters most of the time which is fine. Where as some people who are very anxious and hard on themselves can get caught up in thought and have an IM for more direct urgent questions or even personal stuff could be talked about a little deeper. I feel we would need a system to earn a spot as an "on call-ee" and mods should mystery shop them to make sure they are adhering to BL rules. But also give them a little more freedom knowing someone is involved in the conversation who is not afraid to tell it how it is or call it off in an emergency situation. If they can be direct to us we can be direct back without acting like we know everything but maybe someone new who's shy and hasn't found their home forum can get direct advice and hopefully that can lead to direct and to the point resolutions for them. I feel that if someone up top helped a new guy in some way. We are not here to give advice. Or to create a safe heaven for people to be accepted and led to believe if they survived I will too. Seems like a good tool I know many people would of used. A lot of liability but that's any job with responsibility. Just another to pass in lessons, to point out wrong, to settle differences of opionions. Make it to where they can set people to their favorites and pick a really positive face to go along with it
Whenever they feel down they see that face that they personailed next to that person that means something to them is online. That right there will give some comfort even before the messages start. It takes away the distance of those we mutually care about when they are only a smiley face click away. More positive vibes flowing everywhere even outside digital space and into people's lives and will keep going through their customers at their work. It's like good karma. Maybe in the end a couple lost souls can find there way here to what I call virtual Disney world because of the good vibes and people here and we can save some lives, marriages, sons, and daughters. Broken families hurt America as a nation. Let's heal those families and be a positive force in politics. Bluelight can be more than a drug forum. It's what you make it. For me it's my own Disney world that I have a season ticket for. The rides go up and down and you might feel sick or shit ty afterwords but there's always somebody else who chose the ride as well sit down communicate and when you feel better g get a giant turkey leg!

 

[kleinerkiffer]

post deleted

What you are doing is against the rules and nobody is dumb enough to fall for this scam. So fuck off

 

[Znegative]

that combo almost killed me bro, I would not recommend it. I had a super high tolerance to clonazepam and BTH at the time, but had never used SOMA, I took the SOMA first, then 6mg of clonazepam, and before I could even shoot the dope I was nodding out hard, then I did the shot, fell to the floor and felt like I was in heaven, and ruined all my other friends high's who had to baby sit my sloppy ass for the next six hours. IDK if I'm super sensitive to SOMA or something, or if it was just that one added CNS depressant that put me out like that, but it was a terrible night for everyone else but me.

Anyway, just a rant, but I'm fucking getting tired of some of these bullshit, over the top fear mongering guised as harm reduction posts I see in OD once in a while, mother fuckers trying to get browny points. Get real people (who are guilty of this).

EDIT//
ALso, I forget if we have this somewhere or not, but lately there have been a lot of drug testing questions, which as we all know are not allowed in OD. That being said, it might be a good idea to have a closed thread that people CANNOT post in, but will address a multitude of drug testing scenarios. I'd be willing to volunteer creating such a thread, and I'm sure I could pull up a few people to help me with it. It would mostly be a deterrent so that we don't get more of these types of threads.

 

[kleinerkiffer]

ALso, I forget if we have this somewhere or not, but lately there have been a lot of drug testing questions, which as we all know are not allowed in OD. That being said, it might be a good idea to have a closed thread that people CANNOT post in, but will address a multitude of drug testing scenarios. I'd be willing to volunteer creating such a thread, and I'm sure I could pull up a few people to help me with it. It would mostly be a deterrent so that we don't get more of these types of threads.

Good idea!
I think there's a pretty old thread about drug tests in Neuroscience and pharmacology floating around, maybe we could update it

 

[tricomb]

Good idea!
I think there's a pretty old thread about drug tests in Neuroscience and pharmacology floating around, maybe we could update it

Love it, it's one of the most annoying and waste-of-time staff work dealing with drug testing threads. Collaborate and compile one as you see fit, send it to me via PM n we can all check it out

 

[kleinerkiffer]

Would it be possible to implement a text like 'please note that OD is for harm reduction questions only, if your question is about something other than that, try BDD or DC' that'll pop up every time one starts a new thread?

 

[Znegative]

Yes KK brings up a point that has been making me really annoyed lately, to the point that I kind of lost my temper. There should be a giant link for the BDD forum, and a reminder that OD is an intermediate harm reduction forum, it's for the discussion of harm reduction related threads, not trip reports, not asking to identify unknown white crystalline substances found on the ground in gel
Capsules, not asking why ones right nostril works better than the left.

I say there needs to be a real clamp down on some of the threads I've recently seen posted. Not trying to tell anyone how to do there jobs, but really OD is in a state of chaos.

Anyway I'll be starting the thread for urinalysis/drug testing thread and FAQ. The idea would be to have it as a closed stickie. So people can see it, hopefully get a satisfactory answer, and not feel the need to create a thread about their upcoming panel test I'll include links where people can purchase whizinators of course lol. Would that qualify as sourcing? Jk jk.

 

[Znegative]

I do like this idea. Because the forum is perfect for brainstorming and debate. It also contains questions that require a lot of thought to get to the right answer. But they are urgent matters most of the time which is fine. Where as some people who are very anxious and hard on themselves can get caught up in thought and have an IM for more direct urgent questions or even personal stuff could be talked about a little deeper. I feel we would need a system to earn a spot as an "on call-ee" and mods should mystery shop them to make sure they are adhering to BL rules. But also give them a little more freedom knowing someone is involved in the conversation who is not afraid to tell it how it is or call it off in an emergency situation. If they can be direct to us we can be direct back without acting like we know everything but maybe someone new who's shy and hasn't found their home forum can get direct advice and hopefully that can lead to direct and to the point resolutions for them. I feel that if someone up top helped a new guy in some way. We are not here to give advice. Or to create a safe heaven for people to be accepted and led to believe if they survived I will too. Seems like a good tool I know many people would of used. A lot of liability but that's any job with responsibility. Just another to pass in lessons, to point out wrong, to settle differences of opionions. Make it to where they can set people to their favorites and pick a really positive face to go along with it
Whenever they feel down they see that face that they personailed next to that person that means something to them is online. That right there will give some comfort even before the messages start. It takes away the distance of those we mutually care about when they are only a smiley face click away. More positive vibes flowing everywhere even outside digital space and into people's lives and will keep going through their customers at their work. It's like good karma. Maybe in the end a couple lost souls can find there way here to what I call virtual Disney world because of the good vibes and people here and we can save some lives, marriages, sons, and daughters. Broken families hurt America as a nation. Let's heal those families and be a positive force in politics. Bluelight can be more than a drug forum. It's what you make it. For me it's my own Disney world that I have a season ticket for. The rides go up and down and you might feel sick or shit ty afterwords but there's always somebody else who chose the ride as well sit down communicate and when you feel better g get a giant turkey leg!

I find this post a bit contradictory and confusing. You say, 'we are not here to give advice', which is absolutely untrue, and I wonder if you meant to say the opposite because a few lines down you talk about learning lessons from other people's experiences.

The problem with some type of 'on call' moderator position in OD forum (or bl in general) is that we are not a crisis hotline. Experienced and knowledgable in harm reduction and substance abuse, yes, but not many of us have the correct training that would probably be required should this concept ever be implemented at all. It's a nice idea but in the end would probably result in tragedy and legal issues.

I'm not sure when you talk about 'pointing out wrong', IMO OD should be completely free of any moral attachment when considering drug use. We're not here to shame someone because they're using again, we're just accepting the reality of the situation, which is that addiction is a very complex, multifaceted disorder with no known cure, and that the best we can do is encourage those who seem to be on the path to recovery, and to keep those that are still struggling alive and as safe as possible.

I do agree though, that forming more personal relationships can be a positive and rewarding experience. I know recently talking to tricomb, kleinerkiffer, herbavore and a few others has made me feel a lot better when I was going through a rough time, and I would suggest other people to maybe try and extend themselves to others as long as the purpose is positive and with the intent to help each other better ourselves. This can be a double edged sword though, you don't want to get dragged into someone else's hell, or to drag someone else into yours, so having a good sense of boundaries is essential. Bl is a unique place in that it has a judgement free philosophy but at the same time is NOT just another drug forum where people discuss how to defeat a time release system without any regard to safety or care for the poster. For the most part people are very understanding and I think want to help each other out.

I also agree that it would be cool if Bluelight could exist in other forms other than just a website. Like it would be tight to have a magazine, but that's a whole 'nother topic really.

 

[Znegative]

Alright so I made a rough draft of what that stickie about urine tests might look like. Some of this information might be wrong, there are so many different answers for certain things, such as people claiming that hydromorphone and hydrocodone will show up as an 'opiate' wheras oxycodone wont (it seemed to be the general consensus though that hydrocodone, hydromorphone, oxymorphone, oxycodone, Buprenorphine and Methadone had to be tested seperately. I'll also include a section on false positives and all that, but if anyone wants to help me work on this, that'd be cool. And please, feel free to correct anything thats wrong.


Types of Drug Testing

• Oral: FluidVery recent use up to 2 days, depending on the drug
• Blood: Most drugs are non-detectable after five to 48 hours, depending on the drug. A good rule of thumb is only use blood for drug testing if the person is impaired at the time of collection.
• Urine: May allow detection for several days, sometimes even more than a week. However, urine analysis does not generally permit any toxicological evaluation of drug impairment, merely drug use.
• Hair: Drugs stay in the hair, so detection is dependent on the length submitted for testing. A standard hair drug test is 1 ½”, or 90 days
• Nails: This includes Nail Clippings (from the tips of the nails) and Nail Shavings/Scrapings (from the surface of the nail). Nail clippings yield an approximate thirty (30) day timeframe, six (6) months prior to collection. Nail clippings and shavings yield up to a six (6) month timeframe

5 Panel Dip Test
Generally, most five panel drug tests look for the following:

• THC
• Cocaine
• Opiates
• Methamphetamine/Amphetamine
• PCP

6 Panel
This is the same as the 5 panel with the addition of testing for benzodiazepines

7 Panel
This is the same as the 6 panel, though it will also test for either Barbiturates, or more likely Oxycodone or MDMA.

8 panel

• Marijuana
• Cocaine
• Opiates
• Amphetamine
• Methamphetamine
• Benzodiazepines
• Barbiturates
• PCP

10 panel

• Cocaine
• THC
• Opiates
• Benzodiazepines
• Methamphetamines
• Tricyclic Anti-depressants
• Oxycodone
• Buprenorphine
• Barbiturates
• Methadone

12 Panel

• THC
• Cocaine
• Opiates
• Amphetamines
• Methamphetamine
• PCP
• Barbiturates
• Benzodiazepines
• Buprenorphine
• MDMA

13 Panel Drug Test
This is a less common test that wont likely be used in the workplace but possibly by parole officers and outpatient/inpatient rehabilitation programs. The drugs it can detect are:

• Amphetamines
• Barbiturates
• Benzodiazepines
• Buprenorphine
• cocaine
• 'Extacy'(MDMA)
• K2-Spice
• Marijuana
• methadone
• Methamphetamine
• Extended Opiates/Opioids
• propoxyphene
• Opiates

Drugs that will test positive for Opiates:

• Codeine
• Heroin
• Morphine
• Dehydrocodeine
• Opium/PST/Laudenum/Paregoric

What does 'Extended Opiates/Opioids' refer to?
Semi-synthetic Opiates/opioids like Hydrocodone, Oxycodone, Oxymorphone, Hydromorphone.


Detection Period and Cut-off Levels

Drug

Amphetamine

Barbiturate

Benzodiazepines

Cocaine

Marijuana(TCH)

Methamphetamine

Methadone

Opiates

Phecyclidine

Propoxyphene

Extended Opioids

MDMA

Cut-Off Level

1,000 ng/Ml

300 ng/ml

300 ng/ml

300 ng/ml

50 ng/ml

1,000 ng/ml

300 ng/ml

2,000 ng/ml

25 ng/ml

300 ng/ml

2000 ng/ml

250 ng/ml

Detection Period

1‐4 days

1‐7 days

1‐4 days

1‐28 days

1‐4 days

1‐4 days

1‐4* days

1‐4 days

1‐4 days

1‐4 days

1‐4 days

1‐2 days

*It should be noted that with methadone, 1-4 days should only be used as a measurement for someone that doesn't take methadone regularly, as people on maintenance would probably be detectable for a number of weeks due to the long half life.

How long will Buprenorphine/Subutext/Suboxone be detectable in my urine?
Generally, about 7 days, but this is dependent on a number of factors, including what dose you are on, how long you've been taking that dose, how you administer buprenorphine etc. For instance, someone who injects .25mcg of suboxone and quits for a week will probably pass a drug test, whereas someone who takes 8mg sublingually and quits for a week before the test might not have as good of a chance at passing.

Half-Life Charts

Opiate/Opioid	Half-life
morphine	2-4 hours
oxycodone	2.5 hours
Buprenorphine	36-37 hours
Hydrocodone	3.5 hours
Hydromorphone	2.6 hours
Oxymorphone	1.3 hours
Methadone	22 hours
Fentanyl	3.5 hours
tramadol	6-7 hours
tapentadol	4.5 hours
Levorphanol	11-16 hours
Pethidine/Demerol	3-5 hours

One should note that whenever one of these drugs is in an extended release formula, it is going to be detectable for longer.

Types of Employment Drug Testing
The most common type of testing program is pre-employment. Courts have consistently upheld the legality of requiring a pre-employment drug test as a condition of employment. If a firm plans to test current employees, the employer should have policies and procedures in place, including supervisorial training and steps to take if there is a positive test.

Post-employment testing can include random testing (for safety-sensitive positions), individualized suspicion testing, post-accident testing, and testing that is legally required in certain industries, such as Department of Transportation (DOT) requirements for truck drivers.

The first point for consideration for drug testing is the type of specimen to be collected for testing. The most common type of specimen is urine, followed closely by hair, saliva and breath testing; blood testing is seldom used for pre or post employment testing, except in cases of accidents or court order.

The second point for consideration is place of collection for employers is usually limited to at the employers place of business or off site at a designated collection point such as a laboratory, doctors office or hospital

The traditional remote site urine drug testing is done in a local lab such as Quest or Labcorp. Most employers utilize a standard five-panel test of "street drugs," consisting of marijuana (THC), cocaine, PCP, opiates (such as codeine and morphine) and amphetamines (including methamphetamine). Some employers use a 10-panel test, which includes prescription drugs that are legal to possess and use; employers can also test for blood alcohol levels. Most employers require an applicant to submit to the urine drug test within a specific period of time, so that a drug user does not wait until the drugs leave the system. Laboratories and collection sites also have methods to determine if the applicant has attempted to alter the test sample by drinking excessive water, contaminating the sample, or by using some sort of product that is sold in the hope it will mask drug use. Results are then sent to the employer usually within 24 hours if test is negative. If the test is positive the specimen is rechecked and given to a Medical Review Officer (MRO) for processing, which can add 2-4 days being reported.

Urine Testing on-site
The second type of urine drug testing is On-Site Drug testing. Instead of sending the applicant to a facility, we send a Drug Test Technician (DTT) to your site to perform the test. The process is the same, only the collection technique is different.

The real advantage of this type of testing is:

For the employer,

a) Employee does not have to leave company job-site
b) It’s a simple process with a lower total cost
c) Job applicants and employees can go to work immediately

For the employee,

a) Confidence among employees for the safety of the workplace
b) Increased morale
c) Productivity increases

Employer Testing/Point of Care
Point of care drug testing is when the employer utilizes a small kit to test the employee for the presence of drugs or alcohol at the place of business, jobsite or wherever the employee happens to be at the time. These kits provide fast and accurate results. Many employers find this a cost effective solution to their testing needs / requirements. With POC testing, we supply a device that screens for drugs of abuse and reports the results right on the spot within 10-15 minutes. These kits may not meet the requirements of certain state and federal requirements. We always recommend that if the results are positive, 1) the sample may be sent to the laboratory for confirmation or 2) the employee be brought to the nearest laboratory site with a chain of custody form for a confirmation test.

When results are positive
Testing labs have extensive procedures to reconfirm a positive test before reporting it to an employer. Most drug testing programs use the services of an independent physician called a medical review officer to review all test results. In the case of a positive result, the officer will normally contact the applicant to determine if there is a medical explanation. If the positive test is confirmed, the job applicant can usually pay for a retesting of the sample at a laboratory of their choice. Urine samples for all positive tests are retained for that purpose. Merely taking a new test is not helpful since the drugs may have left the person's system. Certified laboratories will stand behind their results and make expert witnesses available. All drug-testing results should be maintained on a confidential basis.

The most common type of testing program is pre-employment. Courts have consistently upheld the legality of requiring a pre-employment drug test as a condition of employment. If a firm plans to test current employees, the employer should have policies and procedures in place, including supervisorial training and steps to take if there is a positive test.

Post-employment testing can include random testing (for safety-sensitive positions), individualized suspicion testing, post-accident testing, and testing that is legally required in certain industries, such as Department of Transportation (DOT) requirements for truck drivers. -Source

Military Drug Testing

DoD labs test 60,000 urine samples each month. All active duty members must undergo a urinalysis at least once per year. Members of the Guard and Reserves must be tested at least once every two years.
After arrival at the lab, samples then undergo an initial immunoassay screening (using the Olympus AU-800 Automated Chemistry Analyzer). Those that test positive for the presence of drugs at this point undergo the same screen once again. Finally, those that come up positive during two screening tests are put through a much more specific gas chromatography/mass spectrometry test. This test can identify specific substances within the urine samples.

Even if a particular drug is detected, if the level is below a certain threshold, the test result is reported back to the commander as negative.

DoD labs are equipped to test for marijuana, cocaine, amphetamines, LSD, opiates (including morphine and heroin), barbiturates and PCP. But not all samples are tested for all of these drugs.

Every sample gets tested for marijuana, cocaine and amphetamines, including ecstasy. Tests for other drugs are done at random on different schedules for each lab. Some laboratories do test every sample for every drug.

Commanders can request samples be tested for steroids.

• Random Testing. By regulation, each military member must be tested at least once per year. Reserve members must be tested at least once every two years. This is done by means of "random testing." Basically, a commander can order that either all or a random-selected sample of his/her unit be tested, at any time. Results of random testing can be used in court-martials (Under Article 1128a of the Uniform Code of Military Justice), article 15s (nonjudicial punishment), and involuntary discharges. This includes using the results to determine service characterization (honorable, general, or other-than-honorable). Members do not have the right to refuse random testing. However, commanders cannot order specific individuals to take a "random" test. Those selected must be truly "random."
• Medical Testing. This is testing which is accomplished in compliance with any medical requirements. Urinalysis tests given to new recruits falls under this category. As with Random Testing, results can be used in court-martials, article 15s, and involuntary discharges, to include service characterization. Members do not have a right to refuse medical testing in the military.
• Probable Cause. If a commander has probable cause that a person is under the influence of drugs, the commander can request a search authorization from the Installation Commander, who is authorized to issue "military search warrants" after consultation with the JAG. Again, results of urinalysis tests obtained through search authorizations can be used in court-martials, article 15s, and involuntary discharges, including service characterization. Members cannot refuse to provide a urine sample which has been authorized by a military search warrant.
• Consent. If a commander does not have probable cause, the commander can ask the member for "consent to search." If the member grants consent, the results of the urinalysis may be used in court-martials, article 15s, and involuntary discharges to include service characterization. Under this procedure, members do not have to grant consent.
• Commander Directed. If a member refuses to grant consent, and if the commander does not have enough evidence to warrant a probable-cause search warrant, the commander may order the member to give a urine sample anyway. However, commander-directed urinalysis results may not be used for court-martial or article 15 purposes. The results MAY be used as a reason for involuntary discharge, but MAY NOT be used to determine service characterization. In other words, the member can be discharged, but what kind of discharge he/she receives (honorable, general, other-than-honorable) depends upon his/her military record (WITHOUT using the urinalysis results).

-Source

Court Ordered Probation Drug Testing

Court-Ordered drug tests for probation vary, and are put in place based on the offense of the individual and the determination of the court. These can be five, nine or 10 panel tests. Often, they include an alcohol test. Common drugs tested for include propoxyphene, barbiturates, opiates, PCP, marijuana, amphetamines, cocaine and benzodiazepines. If a test comes back positive for any of these drugs, there is a confirmation process, and you will be always be given a chance to explain any prescription medications you are taking to our physician prior to the release of the results.

Some of the most common probation drug tests are:

• 5 panel urine test
• 5 Panel plus Alchohol Urine Test
• 10 Panel urine test
• 12 Panel urine test
• 5 panel hair follicle test

-Source

 

[Speed King]

I'm not sure where we're going with this, but I'm in the mood to have things progress with Bluelight moving forward. If this means cracking the whip, ever so slightly and doing a better job scanning threads and cleaning house, then so be it.
I support kleinerkiffer as a moderator, but also would like to moderate here, or anywhere that I could be of usage to Bluelight.

 

[kleinerkiffer]

^^that's amazing
^thanks man, as I said before, I'll support you too



I'm sick of half the threads in OD atm, there are threads like 'can't get an erection on opioids, what should I do'. Just reading the title makes me wanna slap the thread starter in the face. People should start realizing again, that OD is for harm reduction, not to make you as high as possible etc.

I don't want to be rude, but where are the mods??
Some haven't been online in over a week or two.
I'm sure everyone has a reason, but we need someone that moderates this dump OD has become.

 

[Speed King]

How about junior mods? Just brain storming. I kind of agree with the stupid questions should be its own thread/forum. The bar needs to be raised.

 

[kleinerkiffer]

How about junior mods? Just brain storming. I kind of agree with the stupid questions should be its own thread/forum. The bar needs to be raised.

That's a great idea!

A new forum for threads like that would be amazing, but I think those threads are more or less against the rules/motives of Bluelight, so I don't see a great chance in it :/

 

[Znegative]

hey, sorry I was gone for a day, but now I'm back, with a bang!

what I'm going to do is try and collect as many drug testing questions that have been posted and then add them in with the other stuff I put up there.

The idea would be for it to be a closed thread, so no new questions could be asked as that would be against the rules (NO UA q's), and hopefully the thread could answer every posssible scenario lol. On the other hand maybe OD should just give in and have a UA Megathread so that all those stupid questions could be moved there lol..IDK

Also, there is another forum for that, it's called BDD (no offence to BDD-it should actually be used more often)

 

[Speed King]

Well then clean up in BDD. Nothing crazy, just a bit of a clean up. I know that was off subject. Bit of clean up in OD.

 

[Speed King]

Znegative, I like your idea. Cut down on the redundancy. It would have to be worded very well though to have a chance.

 

[Znegative]

Yea, I agree.
Here is a perfect example of a thread that does not belong in OD, depending on your mood it will either make you all laugh or get very pissed off.

 

[Speed King]

Not pissed off, but clearly out of place thread.

 

[kleinerkiffer]

Yea, I agree.
Here is a perfect example of a thread that does not belong in OD, depending on your mood it will either make you all laugh or get very pissed off.

I'm at a point right now, where threads like this make me just angry.

 

[Speed King]

This"talk" is redundant and old for a while now. What are we going to do? I have an idea, EVERY greenlighter should be severely locked out, until the rules are read. That sounds blunt, but you all can tune it up and make it sound nicer. OD, BDD, etc, need cleaned. As this is my home, we need a tune up.