Gibberings CCXV -- 2C-B And A Mine Field Of Fuckery...

[Itsgoneundertheboa]

I think what you are really referring to Bear is your anger at political correctness. You reference to societies run by virtual dictatorship such as Saudi as the right way!? No I don't think you believe that.

But in a way you are right to have the anger and frustration as it is shared by many.

We have yet to form a system where we can identify the bad from the good. We have yet in all of history to come up with a governing system which is democratic fair shows compassion for those in desperate need but offers us total protection.

As the news suggest the animal that did the atrocity was known and had been reported multiple times. But how would we as a society with the morals ethics and political correctness be able to take action against such a character without creating instability of our fundamental governing system? Innocent before proven guilty is the key.

We just dispatched soldiers onto our streets. Soldiers are not trained in political correctness like the police they are trained to kill. Perhaps there in lies the way we already go and your wishes of a totalitarian guilty before proven innocent system is already in effect?

 

[Bearlove]

Not at all, I certainly do not believe in dictatorship - my point was that the demands of Muslims in Europe do not represent the normal view or standards that I'm used to seeing in the Middle East.

I just can't see any good from this mass migration into Europe or the dilution of European values.

(rant rant rant )

NGO's picking migrants up 7 miles off the Syrian border and ferrying them to Europe where they will receive benefits, housing and then bring the rest of the family over. The government is trying to tell you that each of these people just had 8000 Euros lying around for this trip - they borrowed it, who the fuck from?

I'm sure there are a lot of people in Europe who could not muster up 8000 Euros if they needed it.

Homeless people on the streets - they don't need houses, lets house the migrants first.

Classes are given to these people to 'not rape' the locals :D - do you really want to import this culture into the West ?

 

[spacejunk]

I just can't see any good from this mass migration into Europe or the dilution of European values

Nobody can see any good in it - that's because people are fleeing for their lives.
You expect them just to stay put and be killed by war, famine and preventable diseases? A lot of the people are fleeing countries terrorised by ISIS - many in countries destabilised by the west.


The problem with conflating the issues of terrorism, islam, refugees and immigration is that they are all separate topics with different complexities.

People may say that there are no moderate muslims, but what does that even mean? None of my muslim friends advocate violence or for ISIS. It's like saying all brits are marauding crusaders, complicit in the murder of Yemeni children.
I know Yemeni children don't get the media attention in the West that british children do, but it doesn't make their deaths any less tragic.

If we're going to stop "diluting" each other's cultures, we had all better stop travelling immediately.
Stay home, never leave the house. Fear, fear, fear.

No thanks. I prefer this multicultural world with all its complexities and contradictions. Which is lucky for me, because it's never going to be any other way.

The problem with xenophobia and distrust is that it feeds into the resentment than causes radicalisation in disenfranchised youth.

I honestly doubt that the atrocity in Manchester attracted many people to the ISIS cause - but i'd be shocked if the anti-islam backlash hasn't pushed some people in that direction.

"Big Brother" won't save us from terrorism. Neither will fear, hate or crude sectarian generalisations.

I really don't enjoy arguing about this stuff, but feel it must be said.

 

[Wolfsangel 88]

Of course it is - You think of say somewhere like the Middle East and it has it's own culture? Why import that to Europe? Surely the beauty of Europe is it has its European values and culture?

If muslims want to live in Europe then they are welcome but adopt and adept to it's culture do not impose and force your culture on it. Do you think that European values would be accepted in Iran or Saudi Arabia ? I'm a gay European guy - I'll open a gay bar please - They would be throwing me off the nearest roof to 'help' me.

Exactly this. I have worked in Türkiye and still have friends there, all of them Muslim. They are totally bemused by the way western European nations are content to dilute their culture and customs to avoid 'offending' resident minorities. It seems to be a disease unique western Europa.

We have reached a point where indigenous European culture is under threat of extinction. It is bad enough that we are subject to the corrosive influence of America (*snip*), but to willingly surrender centuries of cultural history for the sake of accommodating hordes of incomers with no intention of becoming assimilated is simply a crime against both heritage and future.

 

[spacejunk]

"Extinction".
Idiocy. Take your pissy keyboard goose-stepping elsewhere. Fuck hitler and fuck all terrorists (yes, nazis included).

 

[Bearlove]

I certainly have no problems with people from any country moving legally to any other country - apply, get vetted, get accepted migrate. That is the process when you want to move from one country to the next - passport, documents, authorization.

Do I fear what this may bring to Europe - yes I do.

This open door policy is beyond crazy.

 

[Wolfsangel 88]

"Extinction".
Idiocy. Take your pissy keyboard goose-stepping elsewhere. Fuck hitler and fuck all terrorists (yes, nazis included).

Am I mentioning Hitler or Nazism? No. Just the importance of preserving European values. Your overreaction speaks volumes. You are an apologist for a failed policy (multiculturalism). I am an advocate of enthnopluralism, not Hitlerism.

 

[spacejunk]

^ your profile scream "nazi", as do every one of your posts.
"Preseeving european values" - how about we start with the presumption of innocence and go from there.

@bear What "open door policy"? There is no such thing.
It's a fabrication the far right use to manipulate people. A bit like the "europeans are becoming extinct" dumbfuckery.

68 (that's fuck hitler in bonehead numeric code)

 

[Wolfsangel 88]

^ your profile scream "nazi", as do every one of your posts.

Only if you believe that being a proud European is the same as being a Nazi. A typical leftist fallacy. Seems I am wasting my time with you, but at least Bearlove's eyes are open.

 

[Bearlove]

What "open door policy"? There is no such thing.

Sorry - I forgot about all the boats being refused and simply turned back. Where is that happening again? What did Merkle name her policy for accepting refugees ?

Yeah of course I'm a Nazi for saying this - I can hardly type for my white privilege

 

[spacejunk]

I'm not calling you a nazi, bear.
I'm calling talking to the guy with the neo nazi profile.

Your privilege in calling for boats of people not to be rescued at sea has nothing to do with race, and everything to do with class.
But hey, just let those people drown, eh? They're destitute so fuck em, right?

 

[Bearlove]

Merkel named her refugee policy 'open door' and publicly stated that all refugees were welcome - now she certainly did not expect everyone to simply hop on the next flight and land in Germany. The route was pretty obvious, but fuck all those countries as her policy was key.

I'm sorry but you need to be blind to not see the problems that this migration has brought with it.

 

[spacejunk]

European migration to my country caused genocide. Who am i to talk? Europeans don't own this planet, no matter how many brown people we've killed.

It's humanitarian intake, and a big reason she did it is because the birth rate in Germany is so low that it will not be able to cope with the aging population.

But more to the point, there are millions of displaced people seeking refuge.

Nobody is illegal. We all have the right to seek asylum. You can claim it's not "our" problem if people are trying to escape war and starvation, but i fundamentally disagree.

 

[Bearlove]

65million refugees on the go at the moment (give or take a million or so). Why is the birth rate in Europe so low ? Could it have anything to do with the prices in Europe? Tax people so hard they can't afford to have kids as they did in the 70 / 80' /90's ?

I certainly have never stated it's not our problem and I have stated that I have no problem with legal migration, done correctly - I have a problem with mass migration of unknown individuals who are not necessarily fleeing war. Do they have the right for a better life, of course they do.

Nobody is illegal but we have borders and travel policies for reasons ? You and I certainly are not free to travel where we want when we want without making the necessary arrangements with the destination country first - we need paperwork, we get checked on arrival etc.

If we have to go through this procedure why not the 000's entering Europe ?

 

[Bearlove]

I'm not calling you a nazi, bear.
I'm calling talking to the guy with the neo nazi profile.

Your privilege in calling for boats of people not to be rescued at sea has nothing to do with race, and everything to do with class.
But hey, just let those people drown, eh? They're destitute so fuck em, right?

If your just going to edit your posts after I have replied - Ill simply not bother in replying to you.

Should we be collecting people at sea - no we shouldn't, we should stop that route, we should fix the problem, stop the exploitation and the risk associated with that route. If Europe is simply going to accept everyone and anyone that wants to arrive - start a ferry service, free of charge.

Germany wants them - fine, collect them in Africa and delivery them to Germany.

NGO's collecting people at sea is creating a bigger problem for these people fleeing persecution and war.

 

[spacejunk]

It's got nothing to do with taxes, and everything to do with european standards of living increasing.
The birthrate drops when people are educated about contraception and fertility. And of course, when scientific understandings of the world overtake religious misunderstandings of life, family, marriage, etc.
The aging population is a major issue in a lot of western countries, which is why immigration is essential from an economic point of view.

 

[spacejunk]

If your just going to edit your posts after I have replied - Ill simply not bother in replying to you.

Huh? Which post are you referring to?
If i edit a post, it's because i'm adding or correcting a thought. Not being deceptive

Should we be collecting people at sea - no we shouldn't, we should stop that route, we should fix the problem, stop the exploitation and the risk associated with that route

How do you propose this? Without more loss of life, i mean.

 

[Wolfsangel 88]

The aging population is a major issue in a lot of western countries, which is why immigration is essential from an economic point of view.

This neoliberal mantra is a terrible lie repeated ad nauseam by 'centrist' capitalist governments in developed countries. Merkel in particular is fond of this line of thinking because she and her ilk are terrified of the inevitable reemergence of German socialism.

 

[Bearlove]

It's got nothing to do with taxes, and everything to do with european standards of living increasing.
The birthrate drops when people are educated about contraception and fertility. And of course, when scientific understandings of the world overtake religious misunderstandings of life, family, marriage, etc.
The aging population is a major issue in a lot of western countries, which is why immigration is essential from an economic point of view.

So a culture becomes educated so flood it with uneducated people to fill the gap and expect them to simply fit in? Then when people complain about the problems they bring with them label them a Nazi.

Huh? Which post are you referring to?
If i edit a post, it's because i'm adding or correcting a thought. Not being deceptive

How do you propose this? Without more loss of life, i mean.

Sorry mate - you had changed two of your posts after I had replied to them. Made it look like I was ignoring your points.

Make a safe zone in Syria first all all - move those fleeing to the safe zone. Same with any other country where people are fleeing war. Set up a quota of how many migrants (not refugees) a country can house, move them from point A to point B, don't move 25000 people into one area, split the number fleeing up and distribute them evenly.

I do not believe that this ferry service Europe is running is the correct solution

 

[spacejunk]

The only person i'm calling a nazi is the guy who is a fucking nazi.

All this talk of "ferry service" is just meaningless nonsense. Sorry, i don't share your views - i think it's really sad that people capitalise on disasters like this to push anti-immigrant rhetoric, and support calls for civil liberties to be reduced in the name of some vague threat.
Blaming terrorist attacks on all muslims is exactly what ISIS wants westerners to do.
Giving up our freedoms and civil liberties is exactly what ISIS want us to do.
Creating a hostile environment for people from migrant backgrounds is exactly what ISIS want us to do.

Fuck ISIS and - again - fuck nazis.