General Sex Work Posts Moved from Sugar Daddy Thread: refer to new Sex Work thread for continuing discussion

[F.U.B.A.R.]

Well that didn't seem to stop you making suggestions just because you didn't know the details before.

Personally. I think this is a bunch of crap.

You can't truly consent under such insane degrees of duress. Imagine if you signed a contract in return for alcohol, and you were alcohol dependant. No judge in the first world would hold you to that contract.

And regardless of whether it's consent or not, it is still unquestionably exploitation and it should not be defended by anyone.

I'm not defending exploitation. But how can agreeing to be exploited be classed as exploitation?

 

[JessFR]

I'm not defending exploitation. But how can agreeing to be exploited be classed as exploitation?

I've explained how more times than I can count now.

When that agreement would not have been made if not for extraordinary duress, it's exploitation. Is that like, not just obvious?

And frankly. Yeah. I think you are defending exploitation. I think you're doing it unintentionally, but I think what you're saying still in practice is defending exploitation.

 

[F.U.B.A.R.]

Do you ever wonder to yourself why you're not asking this the other way around? That if there were no customers there'd be no prostitutes?

I'm not sure that works. If there were no prostitutes, there would be no customers. If there were no shops, there would also be no customers. But where there is demand, there is supply. I'm sure McDonalds dont accuse their punters of exploiting them...

 

[JessFR]

I dont know the details Jess, but if you did something you didnt want to do purely for drugs, without being forced into it, then I would say that was your own freewill.

Oh, something I missed that I should probably have commented on the first time I read this. It may not make any difference to your thinking but it's probably worth mentioning regardless.

Id never have prostituted myself to get high on heroin. I prostituted myself because I was sick and it seemed like the only way out at the time.

You can still say that's "for drugs" but I just wanted to make that clear because it strongly weighs into the concept of duress and exploitation.

 

[JessFR]

If there were no shops, there would also be no customers. But where there is demand, there is supply. I'm sure McDonalds dont accuse their punters of exploiting them...

Yes, where there is demand, there will be supply. But I doubt nearly as many ex workers of McDonald's are left with ptsd for their experiences. I don't think it's nearly as common for people to attack or rape the McDonald's server because they felt like they had a right to because they'd just ordered something.

 

[F.U.B.A.R.]

I think we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one Jess.

Generally, the male of the species exhibits predatory behaviour. If the females are willing to be predated on then that's their choice. I'm not saying I condone it, all I'm saying is don't bitch about it if you're prepared to let it happen.

 

[F.U.B.A.R.]

Yes, where there is demand, there will be supply. But I doubt nearly as many ex workers of McDonald's are left with ptsd for their experiences. I don't think it's nearly as common for people to attack or rape the McDonald's server because they felt like they had a right to because they'd just ordered something.

No right thinking woman would take a job at McDonalds if they thought there was a high chance of getting attacked or raped.

Therein lies my point.

 

[JessFR]

No right thinking woman would take a job at McDonalds if they thought there was a high chance of getting attacked or raped.

Therein lies my point.

Oh yes they would.

Give them a child to support, make it the only job they can get that can support it. They'll take it. Probably the vast majority would.

Put people under enough duress and they'll do almost anything.

Generally, the male of the species exhibits predatory behaviour. If the females are willing to be predated on then that's their choice. I'm not saying I condone it, all I'm saying is don't bitch about it if you're prepared to let it happen.

I would call that the definition of defending and condoning exploitation.

 

[F.U.B.A.R.]

Oh yes they would.

Give them a child to support, make it the only job they can get that can support it. They'll take it. Probably the vast majority would.

Put people under enough duress and they'll do almost anything.

Q.E.D.

 

[JessFR]

Q.E.D.

Yeah I don't get it. I mean I know what QED means but I don't see how you've demonstrated anything but naivety.

 

[F.U.B.A.R.]

Yeah I don't get it. I mean I know what QED means but I don't see how you've demonstrated anything but naivety.

It's not naivety, its highlighting the fact that you've admitted that some women are happy to let themselves get degraded for financial gain.

 

[JessFR]

I think we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one Jess.

Generally, the male of the species exhibits predatory behaviour. If the females are willing to be predated on then that's their choice. I'm not saying I condone it, all I'm saying is don't bitch about it if you're prepared to let it happen.

Also. This is profoundly sexist. So what, men are predators and thats just how they are? But women have a choice? What sexist crap.

 

[F.U.B.A.R.]

Also. This is profoundly sexist. So what, men are predators and thats just how they are? But women have a choice? What sexist crap.

I could retort with 'feminist crap'. But I won't lower myself

 

[JessFR]

It's not naivety, its highlighting the fact that you've admitted that some women are happy to let themselves get degraded for financial gain.

Happy? No I said people will do anything if you take away their alternatives. But it seems to me like only someone profoundly naive/inexperienced would call that a true choice.

 

[JessFR]

Tell you what fubar, I'm gonna put a gun in your face. I want all your drugs. You can give me your drugs or you can get a bullet.

Then, when you give me your drugs, I'll blame you. You decided you valued your life more than your drugs. You had a choice. You could have chosen differently. And since you had a choice that means you consented.

 

[w01fg4ng]

I'm all for social justice, but attacking an app that is clearly only used with consent isn't productive for a progressive movement.

This conversation has moved into conspiracy theory territory at this point.

 

[F.U.B.A.R.]

Tell you what fubar, I'm gonna put a gun in your face. I want all your drugs. You can give me your drugs or you can get a bullet.

Then, when you give me your drugs, I'll blame you. You decided you valued your life more than your drugs. You had a choice. You could have chosen differently. And since you had a choice that means you consented.

Nope. Not a good analogy.

Now if you had said 'I'll give you all my drugs in exchange for sex', then I would have a real choice. If I went with the sex for drugs, then that's my choice and I wouldn't be able to pass the blame on to you.

We're just not going to agree here Jess, but it's a decent discussion nonetheless

 

[JessFR]

Nope. Not a good analogy.

Now if you had said 'I'll give you all my drugs in exchange for sex', then I would have a real choice. If I went with the sex for drugs, then that's my choice and I wouldn't be able to pass the blame on to you.

The whole point is that you DON'T have a real choice.

Say you were a diabetic, and I'm the only one who can sell you insulin? Is that a choice? Sure, you can choose to live or die. That's the whole point.

In this specific example, you can choose to feel torturously sick while homeless during winter, or you can do what I'm asking.

Exactly would you have done in my position, assuming selling your body was off the table. Would you just rob someone instead?

Would you have just been sick? While homeless in winter? What would your choice have been. Being honest with yourself here.

I'm assuming you've experienced a significant opioid withdrawal before btw. If you haven't I don't care about your answer.

 

[F.U.B.A.R.]

The whole point is that you DON'T have a real choice.

Say you were a diabetic, and I'm the only one who can sell you insulin? Is that a choice? Sure, you can choose to live or die. That's the whole point.

In this specific example, you can choose to feel torturously sick while homeless during winter, or you can do what I'm asking.

Exactly would you have done in my position, assuming selling your body was off the table. Would you just rob someone instead?

Would you have just been sick? While homeless in winter? What would your choice have been. Being honest with yourself here.

I'm assuming you've experienced a significant opioid withdrawal before btw. If you haven't I don't care about your answer.

Yes, I've experienced significant opioid withdrawal many times. But I've never been homeless at any time, nevermind winter. But I'm lucky that in the UK we can get free methadone pretty fuckin easily so don't have to resort to other measures. However, many people still do sink as low as they can go, but again, that is their choice.

 

[tubgirl.jpg]

Guys found me. And early on I said no, I said no a lot of times. I kept getting asked. I had guys where I said no and they literally just came back and asked again.

When you look vulnerable, and you're a young women, that's what some guys do.

That's just fucking repulsive. Should've stabbed'em with a needle, Jess. Rid the planet of some scum.