GBL withdrawal after 2-3 week every day use?

[CafeContin]

I don't see why you couldn't get addicted to GHB. If you take a sedative drug constantly your body will get used to that, to say nothing of the mental addiction.

 

[ttocs]

I don't see why you couldn't get addicted to GHB. If you take a sedative drug constantly your body will get used to that, to say nothing of the mental addiction.

Yes, but there are idiots on these forum boards claiming GBL and GHB to be the same thing, when infact GBL is a toxic solvent. When converted by a proper chemist into GHB with no traces of GBL left in the product, the withdrawals are much less harsh, as well as the dopamine rebound. The dosing is also much easier with GHB than with GBL. You also don't see full blown psychosis from GHB withdrawal as you do with GBL withdrawal.

There is quite a difference. This is a harm reduction site, and it's pretty pathetic when there are some mods on here posting information stating "GBL and GHB are the exact same". Starting to sound more and more like the uneducated and uninformed Trisha on projectghb.

 

[ttocs]

While the CERI institute once had one of the best collections of articles/research/faqs on GHB on the internet, the site has not been updated since 1997.

As GHB usage has become more abundant, many of the initial thoughts on the drug (i.e. it is non-addictive) have been disproven. I know people (including myself) who have required hospitalization to treat withdrawal symptoms from consuming pure NaGHB powder (re: NO GBL).

Don't trust anecdotal evidence from someone like myself? Then do some time and some real research, looking at peer-reviewed publications/scientific studies, and don't base your facts on a website that hasn't been updated in almost 10 years.

I'll even make it easy for you. Why don't you start by looking here, here, here, here, or here.

Are you going to accuse these research studies of being "gov media propaganda bullshit links"? Why don't you read this page on Erowid which links to some of the above studies. Please don't tell me you're going to accuse Erowid of being government propaganda?

Getting back to the original poster's question (with some relevance to this discussion as well), GHB Withdrawal does NOT occur at therapeutic doses (i.e. once/night in the treatment of sleep disorders). This is why GHB is available by Rx under the trade name "Xyrem".

I wouldn't go by erowid, as they tend to me anti-ghb. GHB does not stop your breathing, like opiates do. That is utter bullshit on erowid. Have you ever read Dr. Ward Dean's book "GHB - The Natural Mood Enhancer". Doses of up to Pure GHB - 25 grams+ have been taken which induced a deep sleep but did not stop ones breathing. Most of the hospitalizations and withdrawals from GHB use now consist because people nowadays are getting unpure product, or some unknown product claiming to be GHB but actually containing toxic metabolites in it, ever since making GHB illegal.

If you are going to make GHB illegal, they should fucking make Alcohol illegal as well.

 

[ttocs]

raybeez, also my point was that GBL and GHB are not the same thing. I don't give a fuck when people make the arguement that GBL is converted with stomach acid into GHB. GBL is still a toxic solvent and when injesting GBL in the conversion process in your system, it is highly toxic and dangerous and this is where most hospitalizations occur, and then doctors blaim it all on GHB. With GBL it is EXTREMELY hard to get your dosage correct. Also, yes GHB + Alcohol will and can stop your breathing and cause seizures etc, this is also where you see GHB overdoses, but the doctors and media don't mention Alcohol, all they can mention is GHB being the culprit. It's pretty pathetic and rediculous nowadays how uneducated doctors and nurses are when it comes to recreational drugs.

 

[ttocs]

Those links you posted have also not been updated since 2001, and you are starting to sound just like Bliz0r posting all .gov related info which tends to be incorrect most of the time. Anything the US government says tends to be incorrect.

Anyway, i'm wasting my time replying in threads on here, as it's pretty sad nowadays how this world is brainwashed by the media and overstimulated on stimulant drugs.

 

[jiminniey2k]

raybeez, also my point was that GBL and GHB are not the same thing. I don't give a fuck when people make the arguement that GBL is converted with stomach acid into GHB. GBL is still a toxic solvent and when injesting GBL in the conversion process in your system, it is highly toxic and dangerous and this is where most hospitalizations occur, and then doctors blaim it all on GHB. With GBL it is EXTREMELY hard to get your dosage correct.

What are your reasonings? I am not trying to argue.

I came to the impression that GBL and GHB are basically the same as they end up as the same product in your body and are excreted as the same thing.

I have never had GHB only GBL. Before I took any, I was concerned about the fact that what I was buying was being marketted as a stain remover. I read and read whatever I could find on the net and it seemed to be the general opinion that GBL is not harmful to your body as long as you mix it in a bit of fruit drink or whatever. Ethyl Alcohol is a very popular cleaner, much more so than GBL and millions of people consume that every minute of every day. A lot of them live long happy lives.

I know GBL is apparently stronger per ml but I have never had a problem dosing - apart from the first time where I didnt take enough to get an effect.

 

[fastandbulbous]

GBL is converted to GHB in the bloodstream due to the action of enzymes, not in the stomach by hydrochloric acid. As GBL is much less polar than GHB, it crosses the gut wall much faster and for an identical sized dose produces a higher plasma level of GHB - that's where the higher incidence of side effects come from (the active drug in both cases is actually GHB).

Once again, your .gov media propaganda bullshit links. Anything to do with .gov is usually a lot of media bullshit, so that link is totally inaccurate which you just provided.

The only reason it's got a .gov on the reference is because it's hosted by PubMed, which is a national medical database. The actual article was published in the following journal etc

1: Psychopharmacology (Berl). 2005 May;179(3):678-87. Epub 2005 Jan 12.
Department of Psychiatry and Behavioral Sciences, Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine, Baltimore, MD, USA. [email protected]

Which is an independant, peer reviewed journal and not part of some government propaganda machine.

Boy, you sure don't listen do you? Fucking asshole. I posted the link about ten times. http://www.ceri.com/feature.htm

It's people like you in this world that cause accidents and overdoses. Fucking asshole.

Someone needs to ban this prick right away.

That site was last updated in 1997, yet the article BilZ0r linked to was published in 2005 - as somebody pointed out, research continues and gets updated and theories on actions of drugs are modified/changed.


BTW. If you continue with the unprevoked insults, it'll be you that's looking at the activity from the administrative staff. Don't turn it into a thread like this one where someone who is now an ex-bluelighter resorted to insulting everyone.

 

[fastandbulbous]

Pure GHB is not addictive for fuck sake.

When converted by a proper chemist into GHB with no traces of GBL left in the product, the withdrawals are much less harsh

If it's not addictive, as you claim in the first quote, how can the withdrawls be much less harsh, as you say in the second quote. How can something produce a withdrawl syndrome if it isn't addictive in the first place?

 

[hungryghostredman]

on whether or not GHB/GBL are addictive I can only speak from my own experience, having been addicted to heroin on off for five years (cleanish for the past year) and alcohol most of my adult life, I recently discovered GBL and GHB. At first I took GBL about 2 mls every few hours 24/7 for two weeks before making GHB and then caned about 150g of NaGHB over a weekend. When I ran out without tapering off I was fucking sick: my heart beating too fast and I was talking to myself and basically going a bit OCD. It was on a par with opiate withdrawel except only lasted a day or two. However since then I've only used GHB (for periods of a week or two). All day every day. and ive found that as long as you don't increase the dose (ie to more than 2 or 3 g each time) and make sure you taper off a bit at the end the withdrawals are minimal. I mean if I drank whiskey every 4 hours day and night for a week the withdrawal would be much worse. I find if I take too much GHB i get stinging eyes and a salty taste in my mouth (presumably from the sodium) whereas after too much GBL i started too feel as if i was sucking a 9 volt battery. Either way I've drunk so much alcohol for so long that its starting to make me proper sick after even a small amount, and so GHB is by far the lesser of two evils. From what I've heard in the media i had the impression that it was very easy to kill yourself with GHB mixed with other depressants; but me and my brother have experimented pretty recklessly with it and all that happens is you go unconcious for 3 or 4 hours and have some really vivid and interesting dreams! Its a lovely drug IMHO!

 

[ttocs]

on whether or not GHB/GBL are addictive I can only speak from my own experience, having been addicted to heroin on off for five years (cleanish for the past year) and alcohol most of my adult life, I recently discovered GBL and GHB. At first I took GBL about 2 mls every few hours 24/7 for two weeks before making GHB and then caned about 150g of NaGHB over a weekend. When I ran out without tapering off I was fucking sick: my heart beating too fast and I was talking to myself and basically going a bit OCD. It was on a par with opiate withdrawel except only lasted a day or two. However since then I've only used GHB (for periods of a week or two). All day every day. and ive found that as long as you don't increase the dose (ie to more than 2 or 3 g each time) and make sure you taper off a bit at the end the withdrawals are minimal. I mean if I drank whiskey every 4 hours day and night for a week the withdrawal would be much worse. I find if I take too much GHB i get stinging eyes and a salty taste in my mouth (presumably from the sodium) whereas after too much GBL i started too feel as if i was sucking a 9 volt battery. Either way I've drunk so much alcohol for so long that its starting to make me proper sick after even a small amount, and so GHB is by far the lesser of two evils. From what I've heard in the media i had the impression that it was very easy to kill yourself with GHB mixed with other depressants; but me and my brother have experimented pretty recklessly with it and all that happens is you go unconcious for 3 or 4 hours and have some really vivid and interesting dreams! Its a lovely drug IMHO!

Excellent post.

 

[fastandbulbous]

All the problems with GBL seem to stem from one thing - it produces a much higher plasma level of GHB than the equivalent dose of GHB and causes it to happem in a shorter time span.

As for the GBL itself being toxic, it only has a plasma half life of 2-3 minutes, so that within 10-15 minutes of it getting into the blood, 98 % + has been converted into GHB. That sort of implies that any unpleasant effects seen after that 10-15minute window are due to the rapid increase and subsequent high peak plasma level of GHB, not the GBL. As far as I'm aware, the only thing that GBL does that GHB (& associated salts) doesn't is that it is an irritant to mucous membranes; once diluted to a 1 in 5 aqueous dilution (or less concentrated) it even loses that feature

 

[snowshovel]

In theory then, if you slowly sipped a glass of GBL and juice over, say, 30/45 minutes, would that be a good approximation to a dose of GHB?

 

[deeperSense]

need you to give me the proof that gbl is a toxic solvent!!!my research from many sources are that pure gbl 99.98% is non-toxic non-cancerogenic.the purity of the gbl would be the reason of concern!

 

[deeperSense]

In theory then, if you slowly sipped a glass of GBL and juice over, say, 30/45 minutes, would that be a good approximation to a dose of GHB?

1ml gbl=1.4 gms ghb

 

[deeperSense]

good way to purify gbl is to wash with activated charcoal.this would remove impurities

 

[deeperSense]

well put !!!again its like anything ingested to much can be toxic!!!im a bit suspect of naoghb?reports of potassium depletion over long time use.if gbl is the precursor to ghb ,why then do you have to add a highly toxic chemical sodium hydroxide to it,cos when ingestion gbl the body will on its own convert the gbl to ghb!!doesnt make sense to ingested ghb cos it dont make double the ghb the body produced !!do you understand what i mean im puzzled???

 

[snowshovel]

1ml gbl=1.4 gms ghb

This isn't what I meant, I was asking if you could get closer to GHB's absorption rate by drinking a dose of GBL slowly over a period of time.

if gbl is the precursor to ghb ,why then do you have to add a highly toxic chemical sodium hydroxide to it,cos when ingestion gbl the body will on its own convert the gbl to ghb!!

Many people report increased side effects from GBL compared to GHB due to its faster absorption rate. There's people out there who are devoted to GHB but think GBL is pure concentrated evil. Search the forums, there are dozens of threads on this.

 

[lucyper2]

Hello

I've been using GBL for the last 2 weeks, about 15ml/day (redosing). Today I woke up feeling very shitty - anxiety, heart racing, etc.

Is it possible that physical addiction appeared so fast?

And what do you think about switching to about 6mg lorazepam/day for 2-3 days, then to diazepam 10mg/day for the next few days? I hope that I'll be able to work during that time...

Any suggestions?

 

[MTGG]

^ Yeah you should expectsome mild withdrawal. Using any drug every day for a week is going to do that. Like HGR said above, if you did the same with whisky youd be in deeper trouble.

ghb is a GABAgernic (?) drug with a short half life; gbl higher plasma amounts of GHB and even shorter half life. Like with other short half life drugs like xanax, addiction comes quickly if u redose before it leaves your system.

Usually id advise a tapering reduction program, but since you have access to benzodiazepines. I would use them.

I'd opt for diazepam because of its long half life. To Be honest one 10mg tab should be enough; because of this long half life it has a self tapering effect and wears offf gradually ( consequently less rebound anxiety). As it wears off it should have you covered for the 1 to 1 & 1/2 day withdrawal you might expect from your usage. Consider redosing with 5mg if it is unbearable, but I wouldn't make it completely painless because then you wouldnt see addiction/withdrawal as something to be wary of

You dont need an extensive reduction programme like you propose, its only been 2 weeks.

And for future reference, the withdrawals from NaGHB seem to be less severe

 

[TheLoveBandit]

w/d save bump