GBL withdrawal after 2-3 week every day use?

[Boozy_Shamoozy]

I have read up on this a lot + searched this forum but I cannot really find an answer.

I was drinking booze fairly heavily a few months ago and wanted to cut down.

I read an article about GHB use to help cut down booze and decided to give it a shot. I had done a lot of research on the +'s and -'s beforehand too.

I didnt like the effects at first. Just made me tired. No euphoria or e/booze type feelings as reported. So I used it perhaps twice a week or so. Really, only because I wanted to make use of it after spending the money on it!

Anyway skip to about two weeks ago and I had been doing really well with the booze but had a relapse. This is when I started using GBL daily, I still don't find it particularly pleasent but it gets me intoxicated and helps me sleep. (although not a full night).

I slipt into doing this every night, telling myself it was better than drinking every night which I used to do, a step in the right direction anyway, better than taking nothing (less boring).

Anyway, I have now been doing it every night for about 2-3 weeks. I am trying to get an answer to what sort of withrawal effects I am in for.

I never do it in the day, just 1.5 - 2ml once in the evening, then top up with about 1ml or 0.5ml a couple of times later on. I normally don't take any after 8.30 so as not to wake up with the dopamine re-bound (or whatever it is).

There have been a few nights where I havent taken any in the evening until about 5am the next morning after not being able to get to sleep, a last ditch attempt to at least get 2 hours sleep.

I can work out that I may have a bit of trouble sleeping if I stop it's use but am I likely to get the other symptoms people report? Anxiety, deppression, delirium etc?

I am a 28 yr old male, I work out and am fairly healthy. 6ft tall and 87 kg weight.

If I do get withdawals, is there anything to help them?

 

[Sprinklervibes]

Well offcourse you'll have to add up the alcohol use to your withdrawals.. You basically replaced one drug for the other, you can't expect not to come down from the first.
But if you don't have to use it during the day to manage possible withdrawal symptoms, I think you're pretty safe. Otherwise, try cutting back, decreasing your dosage to .5 ml and then quit.

 

[TheTripDoctor]

GABA system

GBL and GHB end up affecting the GABA or GammaAminoButyricAcid system in the brain, just like benzodiazepines do (somewhat).

The basic effect is that GABA is an inhibitory neurotransmiter in normal, everyday activity. GABA binding to its receptors causes an inhibitory response in the brain.

Benzodiazepines bind to specific GABA subtypes, called BZ receptors. They stimulate the receptor and it causes an inhibitory response, which is what you feel with benzos.

GHB on the other hand, was synthesized as a possble full GABA agonist, for which it apparently works as far as most research shows. Its action may have to do with its conversion to GABA first however. Both of those things happen, which one causes activity is another debate. (below)

Any time you overstimulate the GABA system, the body is going to react and counter for it (remember that its true of most drugs). So if you stimulate the GABA system for long periods of time, you may end up with tremors, seizures etc if you stop suddenly.

GHB it may surprise you , is not a foreign substance.

From Forensic Science Communications January 2002 — Volume 4 — Number 1

"GHB is synthesized in brain tissue from GABA by way of a succinic semialdehyde intermediate." and "In addition, the metabolism of GHB appears to involve conversion to GABA by way of a nonsuccinic semialdehyde intermediate and/or beta-oxidation to carbon dioxide."

So for what its worth, GHB is non toxic in most respects, regardless of any withdrawal it may cause it is safer than benzodiazepines and alcohol without a doubt.

 

[snowshovel]

I'd be careful, daily use is a bit excessive, but if you're only using in the evenings with those sort of doses you'll probably be ok. I only ran into trouble with GBL after one evening session carried on through the night and into the next morning. Given that you don't find it euphoric I guess that's not such a danger for you. Also my typical dose was around 3ml.

That said, when it did get nasty it was the worst experience of my life, so I'll stress again: be careful with it. I wouldn't wish that on anyone.

Quitting after months of once a day use would generally produce some mild insomnia, and occasional feelings of 'tightness' in my chest (which may have been a physical manifestation of anxiety)

Yeah I had the tight chest thing too, along with severe cramps/spasms in the same area. I found it very odd that anxiety could cause such pronounced physical symptoms, but it did indeed seem to be the reason. I've heard of other people having the same problem from GHB/GBL WD too. I'd be interested to know why the anxiety from this particular drug seems to cause chest pain/discomfort so often.

 

[ttocs]

Most of GHB/GBL withdrawal is caused by dopamine rebound, not overstimulation of GABA. GHB effects the dopamine system in the brain, blocking dopamine at higher doses, and when GHB wears off, dopamine is released causing the dopamine rebound and responsible for waking you up after 4 hours, and also responsible for the increased heart rate/anxiety/tremors. It's not overstimulation of GABA.

 

[snowshovel]

^ It's not proven to be dopamine either

 

[ttocs]

^ It's not proven to be dopamine either, and actually noradrenaline is a more likely candidate. Check out Bilzor's posts in previous threads on this topic.

GHB does not affect the norephedrine system. Jesus christ, i'm sick of the bullshit on people not researching GHB. http://www.ceri.com/feature.htm

Everyone who is using GHB, please look at that link instead of being misinfomed by media propaganda or government bullshit links.

 

[TheTripDoctor]

GABA, Dopamine, Vitamin deficiency

You would be partially right that dopamine interaction after GHB use is responsible for some of the psychotic effects noted in GHB withdrawal. For instance many drug treatment centers use antipsychotics because of serious psychotic symptoms that develop, sometimes AFTER the serious withdrawal.

GHB both binds to its own receptor, and is turned into GABA in the body. Ill post the sources at the bottom for you. In addition most centers have noted that "attempts of some addicts to self-detoxify, without medical assistance, have been fatal, as the withdrawal syndrome may be severe and unpredictable"

Its worth noting that many centers have noticed vitamin deficiency in GHB withdrawal, which itself can be a cause of serious problems, its hard to say which causes what symptom in some cases.


GHB withdrawal is similar to benzodiazepine withdrawl and it can be fatal if not treated with a benzodiazepine or a barbituate. This is due to the GABA activity, specifically lack of activity. which is exactly what causes fatalities in benzodiazepine withdrawal. There are psychotic effects yes, but they will not kill you unless you do it yourself.

The dopamine activity is in fact there, and dopamine is first inhibited and then later on released, however dopamine cannot explain many of the symptoms, and benzodiazepines would not stop the symptoms if that were the case. Dopamine may wake you up, but the absence of a GABA inhibitory effect on the brain, which is far more abnormal neurochem-wise, is far worse than excess dopamine.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Neuroscience. 2005; 131(2):465-74 (ISSN: 0306-4522) "Gamma-hydroxybutyric acid (GHB) and the mesoaccumbens reward circuit: evidence for GABA(B) receptor-mediated effects."

Forensic Science Communications January 2002 - Volume 4 - Number 1

Ir J Psych Med 2004; 21(2): 73-75
"GHB withdrawal has many features in common with alcohol and benzodiazepine withdrawal, however the initial symptoms of GHB withdrawal can appear within an hour, delirium evolves more rapidly, and is highly resistant."

 

[fastandbulbous]

Regardless of their alarmist tone, the authors confirm that “there have not been any reported deaths”...

That's a quote taken directly from that www.ceri.com site, which is factually incorrect, so don't go jumping down people's throats for wondering about noradrenaline; a simple 'no' would have sufficed

 

[ttocs]

Pure GHB is not addictive for fuck sake. When convereted into proper product ie: (GHB POWDER) with no GBL remaining in the product, GHB is very safe and very non-toxic. It is rapidly metabolized into Carbon Dioxide + Water. If you are getting GBL, I advice you to convert your shit into GHB. That's the reason GHB got banned in the first place, was because idiots mixing with alcohol and other depressants and also the fact that they thought they were getting GHB when infact it was some unknown substance or GBL.

After all GBL is a fucking toxic solvent. As I said

References here: http://www.ceri.com/feature.htm

If anyone of you has ever known who Biogenesis Labortories were etc, you would know.

 

[snowshovel]

Sorry, I thought someone had mentioned that it affected noradrenaline; in fact they had just said that the withdrawal sounded noradrenaline-like. Still, my main point was that the dopamine rebound theory is far from proven science.

 

[TheTripDoctor]

Wall

Ill just go talk to this wall over here, same effect

 

[ttocs]

Ill just go talk to this wall over here, same effect

blah, taking benzo's are like talking to a wall. They have no effect on me. At least GHB has a mood elevating effect a long with euphoria, unlike any benzo.

 

[BilZ0r]

Pure GHB is not addictive for fuck sake

I think all the people who are or have been addicted to GHB would disagree, along with these scientists and the articles cited therein.

 

[ttocs]

I think all the people who are or have been addicted to GHB would disagree, along with these scientists and the articles cited therein.

Once again, your .gov media propaganda bullshit links. Anything to do with .gov is usually a lot of media bullshit, so that link is totally inaccurate which you just provided.

 

[ttocs]

I think all the people who are or have been addicted to GHB would disagree, along with these scientists and the articles cited therein.

Once again, your .gov media propaganda bullshit links. Anything to do with .gov is usually a lot of media bullshit, so that link is totally inaccurate which you just provided.

 

[krippler]

insomnia

i did gbl for 8 days straight and stopped. my main withdrawl symptom was i stayed awake for 3 days! it sucked. after 72 hours is when a human starts hallucinating and i was tripping bad!

I was up to 3mls every 4 hours. i know it was only for a week but my ex and i did 125mls, just about in a week to 10 days. I like it now and then. get some hardcore benzos bro.

something that will knock you out. I was hallucinating from sleep deprivation. It was no fun. i poured the remaining out.

 

[pin]

Once again, your .gov media propaganda bullshit links. Anything to do with .gov is usually a lot of media bullshit, so that link is totally inaccurate which you just provided.

How about YOU start posting links and sources to disprove him then. It would really help your arguement.

 

[ttocs]

How about YOU start posting links and sources to disprove him then. It would really help your arguement.

Boy, you sure don't listen do you? Fucking asshole. I posted the link about ten times. http://www.ceri.com/feature.htm

It's people like you in this world that cause accidents and overdoses. Fucking asshole.

Someone needs to ban this prick right away.

 

[Boozy_Shamoozy]

As far as I can gather, and I have read many posts on this board (through the search function), there is no concrete evidence either way.

One professor claims this, one doctor says that... Arguing about it? - there is no point. Whatever you say, you're not going to turn the other guy around to your opinion.

Anyway, I'm now over 24 hour since my last dose and no withrawals yet. I have only had about 2 hours sleep last night and am seriously considering taking an Ambien tonight. But I know what will happen - i'll start taking Ambien to sleep then I won't be able to sleep without that.

It's a catch 22 situation because I can't afford to go without sleep this week. I am working 10-4 at one place then 5-10 at another (to keep me busy (not drink)).

I could take the Ambien this week. Stop friday night. Not sleep Friday and saturday, then hopefully sleep Sunday and be ok, if a little tired Monday. Then hopefully free from drugs next week.

Has anyone been in a similar boat? What do you suggest?