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  • Film & TV Moderators: ghostfreak

film: Pan's Labyrinth

rate this movie

  • [img]http://i.bluelight.ru/g//543/1star.gif[/img]

    Votes: 4 4.3%
  • [img]http://i.bluelight.ru/g//543/2stars.gif[/img]

    Votes: 3 3.2%
  • [img]http://i.bluelight.ru/g//543/3stars.gif[/img]

    Votes: 5 5.4%
  • [img]http://i.bluelight.ru/g//543/4stars.gif[/img]

    Votes: 32 34.4%
  • [img]http://i.bluelight.ru/g//543/5stars.gif[/img]

    Votes: 49 52.7%

  • Total voters
    93
I loved it!

One thing puzzles me though... In the ending... (semi-spoiler)
NSFW:
...how the hell is she supposed to get up into that high chair???


I thought the violence was bit much too, but it was an interesting contrast to the fairytale themes.
 
glitterbizkit said:
I thought the violence was bit much too, but it was an interesting contrast to the fairytale themes.

del Toro on the violence: "The violence in the movie is deliberately dosified and calculated. I was in favor of the structure of the movie. We live in a completely hypocritical world where we can bombard entire cities [but hurting children—in concept—is taboo]. We can eat the meat but we can't kill the cow. We don't mind the fucking package in the supermarket but we would be unable to kill the cow. It's the same in the world. We are raising these antiseptic fucking little brats to feel nothing, to shield them from pain, to shield them from imperfection, shield them from anything, and they grow up to be 35 year olds with the mind and the spiritual potency of a four-year-old kid. I find a movie like Free Willy much more obscene where they tell you, 'Oh, if you swim next to a fucking killer whale, he's going to be your friend. He won't chew your fucking legs and spit your intestines out."

I got this from the presentation del Toro made that's linked to above. It's a good read. He says that without the brutality of realism fantasy loses its magic. In this case I agree. Read some of the orginal fairytales, there's some sick shit, stuff that, as an indoctrinated member of Disney, I was shocked at but inspired by as a child. Then watch the Disneyfied versions.
 
Well if he wants realism, then why portray his villain with such cartoon like absurd exaggeration?

Ultimately, I agree with his sentiments, but his approach seems sporadic and not well thought out.

Are you going to teach a kid about dealing with reality by showing them Saddam's unedited execution video, or hardcore porn, or kitten snuff? Of course you won't. All you'll achieve using such blunt tactics is a generation of kids with just as many emotional problems due to suppressed memories as what he's bitching about in the above posts quote.

After reading the above quote i am even more opposed to the graphic violence in this film than before.
 
psood0nym said:
He says that without the brutality of realism fantasy loses its magic.


I definitely agree with that, and it wasn't so much the violence in the plot that I had a problem with, as the amount of gory stuff they showed on screen...I don't mind much though, I just didn't look at the screen when something disturbingly disgusting was happening, to avoid upsetting my stomach.
 
L2R said:
Well if he wants realism, then why portray his villain with such cartoon like absurd exaggeration?

Because the film is also allegorical fantasy. As I mentioned in my first post, characters are polarized so that the interactions between characters can be construed as metaphors for the interplay of virtues and vices. The director doesn’t intend for children to watch his movie. In the larger context of the whole presentation, I believe the quote is regarding how we as adults raise children through antiseptic entertainment mediums, be they fairytale books or movies, and how that ultimately bears on them as mature adults.

L2R said:
Ultimately, I agree with his sentiments, but his approach seems sporadic and not well thought out.

Are you going to teach a kid about dealing with reality by showing them Saddam's unedited execution video, or hardcore porn, or kitten snuff? Of course you won't. All you'll achieve using such blunt tactics is a generation of kids with just as many emotional problems due to suppressed memories as what he's bitching about in the above posts quote.

After reading the above quote i am even more opposed to the graphic violence in this film than before.

His use of sporadic violence is to bring the magic of fairytales back to desensitized adults, who he hopes will then see value in relating a more honest and sophisticated, though not gratuitous, depiction of violence to children through stories. As a side note, I find del Toro’s Machiavellian Captain not all that unrealistic. Imperious humans-- especially insecure ones like the captain--with great power are not uncommonly consumed by it, and begin to resemble the one-track, cartoonishly villainous character of the captain. Just read about the depths of depravity and thoughtlessness in Nanking during WWII or, more recently, Congo or Sudan. Remember also that the era of the Spanish Civil War was one far less self-conscious than our own.
 
great movie. definitely one of the best movies this year...or last year. whenever it was released
 
I have nothing to say against the violence because it emphasizes the brutality of the captain to a point that I find it actually believable. In my opinion, dulling the brutality would have made it far more 'cartoon-like' because it would have certainly left me in limbo about the captain, as he seems to be almost benign on the other hand when he is in the company of his family and the doctor. Then he suddenly transforms into a brutal monster and it's a jarring contrast to his otherwise almost admirable demeanor (such as a man in his profession is expected to maintain.)

If his evil side had been left to my imagination or the imagination of a lesser director than del Toro, I would not have felt so completely repulsed by such an evil character. Anyway... I didn't enjoy the flick. In part, it's because I was expecting more of this fantasy world, but mostly I found myself not enjoying it because I was completely unable to relate to both the story and the characters.

The setting was obscure, albeit unique... and the characters were too desolate to engage me and interest me. I saw Letters to Iwo Jima, another war movie, a few days later, and it deepened my regret for seeing Pan's Labyrinth as that film was just as brutal, but in two hours it still managed to provide me with characters who, although just as desolate as those in Pan's Labyrinth, had a depth that shined through and kept me emotionally invested in their fates till the end.

In conclusion, Pan's Labyrinth succeeded at being a visual feast but completely bombed at providing a single character to whom the audience could feel attached because it was too busy jumping between the real world and a completely redundant fantasy world. It's such an accurate portrayal of what might have been that it's just plain boring.
 
This movie now rates as the 4th highest rated movie ever at Metacritic.com with a score of 98. Any single critic is capable of lapses in judgment for any one film, but it's hard to argue with such a broad consensus as theoretically individual "errors" should get averaged out. Anyone who didn't like this film should probably give it another shot with a fresh perspective...
 
psood0nym said:
This movie now rates as the 4th highest rated movie ever at Metacritic.com with a score of 98. Any single critic is capable of lapses in judgment for any one film, but it's hard to argue with such a broad consensus as theoretically individual "errors" should get averaged out. Anyone who didn't like this film should probably give it another shot with a fresh perspective...


are you del toro by any chance?

yeah, perhaps you're right. I was running on a couple long island iced teas when i went in. Perhaps a sober viewing is in order.
mebbe i'll just DOWNLOAD IT... hahahahaha.....er.. yeah and stuff.
 
L2R said:
are you del toro by any chance?

yeah, perhaps you're right. I was running on a couple long island iced teas when i went in. Perhaps a sober viewing is in order.
mebbe i'll just DOWNLOAD IT... hahahahaha.....er.. yeah and stuff.

No, I'm not del Toro. I am however a self-righteous megalomaniac who likes to stomp all of my opponents into goo with my rhetorical boot!
 
thujone said:
I have nothing to say against the violence because it emphasizes the brutality of the captain to a point that I find it actually believable. In my opinion, dulling the brutality would have made it far more 'cartoon-like' because it would have certainly left me in limbo about the captain, as he seems to be almost benign on the other hand when he is in the company of his family and the doctor. Then he suddenly transforms into a brutal monster and it's a jarring contrast to his otherwise almost admirable demeanor (such as a man in his profession is expected to maintain.)

If his evil side had been left to my imagination or the imagination of a lesser director than del Toro, I would not have felt so completely repulsed by such an evil character.


well said!
 
Early tales, which most of the Disney films are, were very violent and gruesome stories. It's an element of our culture to be offended by on-screen violence. I found the film wondeful and part of its appeal is the way Del Torro plays with the Hollywood conventions.
 
psood0nym said:
No, I'm not del Toro. I am however a self-righteous megalomaniac who likes to stomp all of my opponents into goo with my rhetorical boot!

well then you should feel right at home in the lounge! :D
 
Amazing film, probably my favorite of anything i saw in 06/07.

I'm loving it really because the tone very similar to Eraserhead's which is mine all time favorite film. Not even just the beast that feeds on children(although when they crying started i was like 'yes!') but I think there is something going on with babies. Any film trying to be horror with babies like "It's alive" "Eraserhead" etc has this very visceral, odd feel to it which is uncommon enough to be a pretty big deal when i feel it. Its like the most vunerable you can feel watchin a movie man.

Goya-Saturn.jpg
 
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