Addiction Fent/Benzo withdrawals-subutex-methadone journey

[James Peach]

hey guys, been lurking 15+ years made a new account and wanted to add to this post. Im 6 weeks into Methadone Maintenance. I got arrested in July search warrant at my apartment kicked in the door. I live in LA, got arrested for dealing fent and was addicted massively to smoking 2-3 grams a day and 8-20+ mgs alprazolam or clonazepam depending what i can get my hands on. My charges were somehow dropped after 3-4 days in jail. They gave me 5 mgs valium 2 times a day and clonidine 0.1 mgs, when i was released from jail the WD were just starting. Heroin was bad, but boy fent is another level. Plus benzo wd, i didnt eat or sleep for 28 days. I ended up going to the ER a few days in a row because the poly WD was so bad we couldnt handle it alone anymore. I was sent to a methadone clinic on day 30 fent withdrawals. They told me for methadone its a complicated process that requires the clinic doctor to be there which would mean waiting 3-4 more days and at that point the ER wouldnt even take me anymore i would leave and turn around come back in cause they just wouldnt prescribe benzos or anything.

anyways, i took the sub route 30 days into fent withdrwals and benzo wds because i seriously needed to eat and sleep. Even after 30 days, the subs made me feel almost worse. The clinic bumped me up to max 24 mgs a day and i still wasnt feeling better. I was lacking sleep and food for so long i started actually losing my mind and i stopped understanding reality to a degree. I was in a constant withdrawal state for like 50 days on 24 mgs, i successfully quit benzos which is a big achievement.

So after i regained my mind and some sleep, although during the subs i would chip and smoke fent again and it spit my subutex out, save them, wait 4 days after fent and hop back on 24 mgs, i even tried max ceiling effect 32 mgs. Even after no fent for 45 days, using fent for 3 days and then waiting 4 days to hop back on bupe and still have WD. Eventually set an appointment when reality started coming back. I was so sick for so long i was hallucinating that narcoticts detectives were running up my staircase again.

My clinic is an interesting one because they will try bupe first before methadone even though theyre a methadone clinic? i dont know how that works. I always gave it a bad rep (methadone) because of a post like this about being chained to the clinic. My alternative is street fent. Im okay with having to take methadone as long as i need. Its been 4 months+ since i was arrested and i still feel like im barely able to get up and go to the store and im on 105 mgs a day methadone.

Im curious about other peoples experience with their clinics and how high can your dose get? Whats the highest dose other people have gotten on? why do i feel like shit cold and clammy even at 105 mgs 8-12 hours after my dose?

I want to use bluelight and the forums as a place to keep myself in check thus creating this thread. Feel free to budge in any topic on your mind, share your experiences and countries. Ive always had great respect for this website. If used correctly it can be a tool like NA meetings. At least for me. I dont seem to do well in meetings but here i feel like myself

 

[cdin]

Benzo PAWS could still be part of the problem, and you might need to dose done twice a day if you have a liver that metabolizes it super fast, which is known some people do. Other than that great job getting yourself to a more stabilized place not on random street shit. Glad you’re here

 

[James Peach]

Benzo PAWS could still be part of the problem, and you might need to dose done twice a day if you have a liver that metabolizes it super fast, which is known some people do. Other than that great job getting yourself to a more stabilized place not on random street shit. Glad you’re here

thats crazy you say that. The clinic doctor is a G, he said opiate withdrawal isnt anyones fault, and that if he were dopesick hed inject fentanyl in his own eyeball, LMAO. I swear he said that and pointed to his eye. HAHA. He told me if it wasnt for the take home rules hed have given me split dose from the start. I have been there long enough to get take homes just gotta pee clean. The urine tests are so accurate i tested positive 10 days without fent. I also caved in when i started methadone 30mgs 1st day, 40 mgs 2nd day, 50 mgs 3rd day, then the nurse was allowed to bump me up 5 mgs to 55 4th day. After that i had to make a full appointment and fully sit down with the clinic doctor to have him increase me 10 mgs. Ive had 5 fuckin sit down from 55 mgs to 105 mgs im at now. Its kind of redundant and almost drug seeking i feel when i make these appointments because i personally need more than 105. This made me pick up fent again while taking Methadone which i found to be a big mistake. You end up pointlessly going to the clinic at that point. It just ended up being the clinic and the dealer id need to see to stay well. Not worth it. Plus id have take homes by now. Going to be smart keep myself in check and update here. My bad for the long replies. Just want to get a good conversation and thread going.

I should say i cant lie that i didnt indulge in 6 bars here 8 bars there for 2-3 days, but always have 2-3 week breaks in between, which i wasnt able to do before. That withdrawal still traumatic. I dont have rebound symptoms from only 2-3 days using benzos now, i just get really lethargic and depressed after i take 3 bars a day for 3 days. Im thankful for that benzo withdrawal it made me drop street opiates and benzos after 10 years and accept im a weak person that needs a long acting full agonist like methadone to live life like normal people. It sucks but i always remember that knock from the detectives screaming "police! search warrant!" man that stuff is horrible when its you not a youtube video thats making you laugh. I was the youtube video.

Are you on MMT? if so what mgs? what state? Any benzo experience? What is your addiction issue? thanks for sharing

 

[cdin]

I am not personally on MMT. Just been around opioids for decades. IMO what’s fucking you most here is the sporadic bar abuse. If you’ve already detoxed a benzo habit - each of those doses is just going to give you rebounds for weeks, I would feel terrible if I did that as well. 2.5 years out of benzo wd I’m about 85% better. But I literally would not touch a benzo if you paid me

 

[Painful One]

I am wondering if the benzo withdrawal is really what is fucking you over the most O.P.

You do not just come off benzo’s like you would-could opiates.
Especially the amount you were taking daily.
Have you addressed that issue? Because neither bupe, nor methadone is going to help that issue.

I am understanding that you stopped taking 8-20+ mg Xanax or clonazepam cold turkey in July?
Is that correct? That could still be the worst issue you are dealing with and why you are not feeling better with neither subs or methadone.

I wish you well.
Sending prayers for you.

 

[James Peach]

I dont understand why i feel like "MY WITHDRAWALS" are the worst haha maybe im just a pussy
I feel guilty about being on methadone but its been a long 10-11 years i need a break. At least i dont wake up in fear of seizures again from benzos i think the sleep and social perma anxiety keeps me in this constant withdrawal state even 105 mgs methadone.

My psych after the ER visits refused benzos since that was part of the issue and prescribed gabapentin 300 mgs X 3 a day 50-100 mgs Seroquel and 25-100 mgs hydroxazine. (Ive never had one or been prescribed anything my entire time doing drugs i know crazy)

I ran out of gabas 3 days ago i feel like shit i ate my first 3 month script in 2 months. No hydroxazine left either and 2 seroquel left. Im so sick of these different withdrawals. Why is life gotta be like this. I hope i can read my own words later and remember how i felt because that should have been a deterrent long ago.

I just need reassurance that this is possible to adjust and i just have to wait fuck

 

[Painful One]

I dont understand why i feel like "MY WITHDRAWALS" are the worst haha maybe im just a pussy
I feel guilty about being on methadone but its been a long 10-11 years i need a break. At least i dont wake up in fear of seizures again from benzos i think the sleep and social perma anxiety keeps me in this constant withdrawal state even 105 mgs methadone.

My psych after the ER visits refused benzos since that was part of the issue and prescribed gabapentin 300 mgs X 3 a day 50-100 mgs Seroquel and 25-100 mgs hydroxazine. (Ive never had one or been prescribed anything my entire time doing drugs i know crazy)

I ran out of gabas 3 days ago i feel like shit i ate my first 3 month script in 2 months. No hydroxazine left either and 2 seroquel left. Im so sick of these different withdrawals. Why is life gotta be like this. I hope i can read my own words later and remember how i felt because that should have been a deterrent long ago.

I just need reassurance that this is possible to adjust and i just have to wait fuck

It is possible to adjust.
I promise.
I am adjusting.

Maybe you should just tell them about the gabapentin and hydroxazine being gone.
That alone is definitely uncomfortable and will fuck with you.
That kind of shit happens with us.
Stop feeling ashamed of it.
That is not going to help at all.
It is what it is.
We lost control but we are regaining our balance.
That is just fine!

 

[James Peach]

You know reading my own posts from a few days prior really shows the different personality moods and changes I go through. Also having strangers that are nice on a forum support you holds me accountable because I don’t have to lie to any of you.

I can lie? But what’s the point in that or posting here. I feel like this is my place for NA.

Painful one, definitely realized this time around since it was my first time ever being prescribed anything I know it’s crazy. 29 YO in Los Angeles CA used poly drugs 13+ years never went to any psych or doctors never had that relationship with drugs and legality.

This time around when I get my seroquel gaba and hydroxazine I’m only going to take the seriquel before bed and I’m not just gonna take gaba and hydroxazine because it’s there every day.

Quickly you take gaba 300 X 3 times a day and hydroxazine 3 times a day just to feel normal on top of methadone. I’m going to keep those meds as bonuses from now on.

God I wish I was a stimulant addict or alcoholic much easier than all these withdrawals and dependencies.

How are you painful one?

 

[somnilicious]

You know reading my own posts from a few days prior really shows the different personality moods and changes I go through. Also having strangers that are nice on a forum support you holds me accountable because I don’t have to lie to any of you.

I can lie? But what’s the point in that or posting here. I feel like this is my place for NA.

Painful one, definitely realized this time around since it was my first time ever being prescribed anything I know it’s crazy. 29 YO in Los Angeles CA used poly drugs 13+ years never went to any psych or doctors never had that relationship with drugs and legality.

This time around when I get my seroquel gaba and hydroxazine I’m only going to take the seriquel before bed and I’m not just gonna take gaba and hydroxazine because it’s there every day.

Quickly you take gaba 300 X 3 times a day and hydroxazine 3 times a day just to feel normal on top of methadone. I’m going to keep those meds as bonuses from now on.

God I wish I was a stimulant addict or alcoholic much easier than all these withdrawals and dependencies.

How are you painful one?

I find gabapentin and methadone to act very strangely when taken together i.e. withdrawal feelings hours after dosing. Also you are reigniting benzo PAWS everytime you take benzos. You got a lot of different medications going on here. I would stop all benzo use permanently due to kindling and cut out the gabapentin.

I've been on MMT for over 20yrs on and off with 10yrs benzo use. I've been sober from benzos for 7yrs with one two week use years ago. I also messed around with gabapentin for years till now any usage causes withdrawal type feelings. I had to cut out all gabapentin use about a yr and a half ago because it felt like my methadone only lasted 10hrs a day before I would start to feel uncomfortable. Don't ask me why this happened. I just noticed the direct correlation.

Currently just taking 90mgs of methadone and doing well. I pick up once a week, which will be changing to bi weekly soon. Good luck brother and stay off the junk. You're 100% doing the right thing and headed in the right direction. You don't want to ever get caught up in the legal system or fentanyl addiction again. Much love from a fellow recovering lifelong opiate addict.

 

[Pissed_and_messed]

I am wondering if the benzo withdrawal is really what is fucking you over the most O.P.

You do not just come off benzo’s like you would-could opiates.
Especially the amount you were taking daily.
Have you addressed that issue? Because neither bupe, nor methadone is going to help that issue.

I am understanding that you stopped taking 8-20+ mg Xanax or clonazepam cold turkey in July?
Is that correct? That could still be the worst issue you are dealing with and why you are not feeling better with neither subs or methadone.

I wish you well.
Sending prayers for you.

yes it is more of a recovery of brain damage than withdrawing
"clammy" attacks persistently waved and retreated long after I managed to claim some "windows" of decent state.

 

[James Peach]

@somnilicious hey man thanks for wise words and support. This website has been keeping my mind focused. Everyone’s input here is amazing and a very broad intelligent diverse group of people who’ve been through a lot for sure.

I decided to make this into a journal and keep my journey as a memory so I don’t forget. It’s crazy when you read your own comments many times and posts you realize there’s a lot of self reflection I can be doing.

Methadone is a very unique opiate to get used to using. I’m so used to peaks and troughs with any other opiate opioid the nodding and the sickness. With methadone it’s almost like I’m not used to having a single dose of any opiate last me more than 12 hours let alone 24 everyday. I have this timer in my head from so many years of coming down sick get well nod repeat, multiple times in a day. Especially with fentanyl when they started I would be sick in 6 hours even though I was out cold nodding 4-5 hours before.

My pupils never get small on methadone either. They can actually get pretty big as if I’m clean and don’t use opiates. Right now shit sucks i have to dose daily I don’t have take homes and I notice how I still really barely eat sleep or move at all from my bed. I’m not sedated but I’m not what I call 100%.

It’s really bothering me. I’m guessing the sporadic benzo usage after quitting 5 months ago doesn’t help but I never take benzos more than 2 days in a row and then a 2 weeks+ break. It’s been 3 weeks since I’ve had any benzos and I feel no cravings for them which is a miracle. The fent smoking every 7-10 days for 1-2 days straight has fucked this whole process up. It’s been 6 days since I smoked 1 gram of fent in a 24 hour period but made sure to spit my methadone out so I wouldn’t add to the tolerance as much lool the clinic would murder me if they knew. They still require us to wear masks when we walk in the window to the nurse so after I drink it from the plastic cup I just hold it in my mouth and cover my face with the mask, wave bye and walk out (without actually saying bye cause my mouth is holding liquid).

I set an appointment for the 30th to increase to 115 mgs. Hopefully this time around when I pee it won’t fuckin be positive for fent. I’ve done this like 4-5 times and 4-5 times literally I smoke fent for 2-3 days tops don’t take any for 9-10 days and I come up positive? It’s not worth it though and the fent high really blows as it is without methadone tolerance. I’d rather never waste money and feel sick for 5+ days even with normal methadone dose because I binged and smoked that shit risk jail again the detectives that got me are known to be gnarly they busted huge Mexican ring in Los Angeles with the DEA years ago before fent which cause drought. Crazy how years later they come to your door. I still have PTSD I think that I can’t accept from that search warrant. It’s so jarring and serious when it’s your ass.
(Please someone move this to a journal part of the forum or however mods see fit, I will keep myself updated thanks for everything guys and feel free to chime in off topic or not we’re here to vent and get to the nitty gritty of shit)

 

[James Peach]

It’s been 6 days since I’ve had any gabapentin 6 since I binged just 1 day 1 gram of fent. I want to just feel normal and not break the law goddamn my opiate tolerance.

Strangely enough the clinic doctor doesn’t get mad I’m positive for fent so many times, he said he wishes he could bump my methadone quicker and give me month take homes right away but he can’t. He said he would inject or smoke fent too… he’s 65 and looks 50 tells me stories how he used to smoke weed and fly airplanes he encourages weed smoke if it helps.

I did an ultra rapid gabapentin taper went from 1,800 mgs a day really quickly to 600 mgs a day and then 300 mgs after that I opened the capsules into half and took that for 2 days 150 mgs each day and stopped. Thank god I did that at least cause it’s still not fun.

Sorry I’m venting the last 2 posts I just gotta get this off my chest even if it’s for myself only.

 

[Painful One]

Go right ahead and vent!
Yeah, it sounds like you really are needing more methadone if you are still using fentanyl.
Please be careful!
Damn! Those are very dangerous drugs.

I don’t know if you should be spitting it out. That might be causing a problem.

This is like day 10 for me, coming from 90 mg morphine a day to Suboxone and now subutex.
I am having a hard time finding the right dosing schedule.
I am needing more than 3 doses a day right now.
They just do not last as long as claimed for me.
I am worried that I am getting myself into a bigger problem.
I need some guidance with this.
I need some support too. I do not see my other family members very often and my mom requires my assistance.
She is 84 and understands nothing about this.

I am also finding that I am not more active also. Just laying around trying desperately to stabilize and keep myself okay.
Maybe that comes with some time. I hope so.
Otherwise, this is not going to be any better than before.
I have a headache again today and I keep waking up multiple times at night and my body is stiff and frozen in the curl up healing position, I have to like throw myself to get myself unlocked up.
Leg pain is back today.
DAMN IT!!

 

[somnilicious]

It’s been 6 days since I’ve had any gabapentin 6 since I binged just 1 day 1 gram of fent. I want to just feel normal and not break the law goddamn my opiate tolerance.

Strangely enough the clinic doctor doesn’t get mad I’m positive for fent so many times, he said he wishes he could bump my methadone quicker and give me month take homes right away but he can’t. He said he would inject or smoke fent too… he’s 65 and looks 50 tells me stories how he used to smoke weed and fly airplanes he encourages weed smoke if it helps.

I did an ultra rapid gabapentin taper went from 1,800 mgs a day really quickly to 600 mgs a day and then 300 mgs after that I opened the capsules into half and took that for 2 days 150 mgs each day and stopped. Thank god I did that at least cause it’s still not fun.

Sorry I’m venting the last 2 posts I just gotta get this off my chest even if it’s for myself only.

No problem brother. Let it all out and don't feel guilty about being on methadone. You deserve to live your best life. You've been taking opiates for a long time and your body chemistry has changed. Like a diabetic taking their insulin we got our methadone.I don't want to scare you but I had 3 years totally clean with a few lapses scattered throughout that time. I just didn't feel right during that time. Everything was difficult and my emotions were all over the place with lots of lows. I might be a lifer at this point. It just stabilizes me. It's tough to let go when we program rituals into our lives, especially a routine as strongly reinforcing as the high then withdrawal cycle. It's going to take time to reprogram yourself.

I have no doubt you still feel rough with the kind of using cycle your still maintaining. As you have seen fentanyl sticks around in the body for a long time. Both fent and benzos are lipid/fat soluble so the body slowly releases them. Those extreme peaks/ highs coupled with the lingering chemicals has got you feeling all out of sorts and on top of that you probably still have some residual gabapentin withdrawal.

Hang in there. Keep writing so you can examine your thoughts and measure your progress. You'll get those takehomes and it will free you up so it won't all be such a burden anymore. I'd thank God you don't have your takehomes yet because that forces you to get used to the once a day cycle because while there is no real high with methadone there is still a glow and relaxation, especially after you stop your binges. You might find yourself wanting to dip into your takehomes to double dose or have an evening dessert. After all these years I still have this problem. Like I was saying I'm just programed that way. I'm so used to taking my medicine when I wake up and I find myself wanting to dose when I get home after work, as a reward, on holidays, my day off. My mind is so used to associating fun or pleasure with a drug. It's a hard pattern to break.

I would suggest trying to get some hobbies or something that gives you pleasure and you can get interested in, even if it's just video games. Force yourself to get up and do something. Go for a walk, get a dog, drink coffee, while reading at a cafe. We have to get used to getting our little dopamine hits from life again. Everything will feel dull but that's just because we're used to the extreme highs the dope provided. You'll soon find yourself enjoying the small things even the boredom. It sure as hell beats waking up sick and scrambling to figure out where today's high is gonna come from.

The best to you Mr.Peach. Keep coming back to share. It helps me as well brother. It's gonna get better and we have Christmas to look forward to. It's a good time to be free and alive.

One of my old associates posted a list of those who died a while back for overdose awareness month. There was at least 30 names on the list. I knew almost everyone of them and there were another 7 close friends not even on the list. We have a lot to be grateful for. Make the most of everyday and smile cause we're blessed. Maybe one day if you stick around I'll share a little bit about my story and I'll get to hear a little more of yours...

Much love from Somni to another Opie survivor.

 

[somnilicious]

Go right ahead and vent!
Yeah, it sounds like you really are needing more methadone if you are still using fentanyl.
Please be careful!
Damn! Those are very dangerous drugs.

I don’t know if you should be spitting it out. That might be causing a problem.

This is like day 10 for me, coming from 90 mg morphine a day to Suboxone and now subutex.
I am having a hard time finding the right dosing schedule.
I am needing more than 3 doses a day right now.
They just do not last as long as claimed for me.
I am worried that I am getting myself into a bigger problem.
I need some guidance with this.
I need some support too. I do not see my other family members very often and my mom requires my assistance.
She is 84 and understands nothing about this.

I am also finding that I am not more active also. Just laying around trying desperately to stabilize and keep myself okay.
Maybe that comes with some time. I hope so.
Otherwise, this is not going to be any better than before.
I have a headache again today and I keep waking up multiple times at night and my body is stiff and frozen in the curl up healing position, I have to like throw myself to get myself unlocked up.
Leg pain is back today.
DAMN IT!!

Hang in there Painful One. I don't have a lot of experience with Subs but I would imagine time to be your benefactor. I've always heard less is more with Suboxone. People seem to start out with higher doses and then they usually wind up stabilizing on a lower dose. It's not unheard of for people to prefer/need several doses a day. Just make sure you're being honest with yourself and not trying to chase a high you're never gonna get because subs won't ever give us that feeling and too much can actually make us feel worse but because we're so used to associating taking more of our medicine with feeling better this can cause us to get caught in the mistaken idea that with our ORT that this is still the case when it can be that we are taking too much causing us to feel listless and without energy or motivation(excuse the long run on sentence). I'm only saying this because Im constantly falling into this mental trap with my methadone.

Much love.. I think you're going to be happy with the choice you've made. It's still going to be hard to get used to a life without highs. Sometimes we forget what it all feels like to feel

 

[kiely]

I have a headache again today and I keep waking up multiple times at night and my body is stiff and frozen in the curl up healing position, I have to like throw myself to get myself unlocked up.
Leg pain is back today.
DAMN IT!!

Maybe can you talk to the Nurse Practitioner or have them see you at the E.R.
I am really worried about you too.
Ten days is way too long to be suffering !!

 

[kiely]

I mean really worried about you. But I did see you react. Hope we feel better soon.

 

[Painful One]

Maybe can you talk to the Nurse Practitioner or have them see you at the E.R.
I am really worried about you too.
Ten days is way too long to be suffering !!

The last place I would go for help would be the hospital.
The hospital has not had a very good record of not making things worse and torturing others with no conscious about it.

I am hoping to stabilize at a lower dose and make up for these huge doses I have needed, or I would be in strong opioid withdrawal.
I can feel my body is still going through it.
I have a ton of mucus and go into full blown morphine withdrawal if I don’t take 16 mg every 8 hours for now.

My mind is still going through it too.
It is a roller coaster ride.

I have felt better on some days too.
I am hoping and praying for the best.

Just don’t know how I am going to do this with almost no support.
I really cannot get out of the situation I am in without help.
Financial help as well as emotional Support.
I need my drivers license back and a car.
Not sure I can work though, definitely cannot as of yet.

Hoping For a Miracle here.

 

[kiely]

^ Oh dear sounds very serious.

 

[kiely]

The last place I would go for help would be the hospital.
The hospital has not had a very good record of not making things worse and torturing others with no conscious about it.

I am hoping to stabilize at a lower dose and make up for these huge doses I have needed, or I would be in strong opioid withdrawal.
I can feel my body is still going through it.
I have a ton of mucus and go into full blown morphine withdrawal if I don’t take 16 mg every 8 hours for now.

My mind is still going through it too.
It is a roller coaster ride.

I have felt better on some days too.
I am hoping and praying for the best.

Just don’t know how I am going to do this with almost no support.
I really cannot get out of the situation I am in without help.
Financial help as well as emotional Support.
I need my drivers license back and a car.
Not sure I can work though, definitely cannot as of yet.

Hoping For a Miracle here.

Prayers.