Feeding 2C-B to psych-virgin housemates and a few questions about it...

[MSK]

MSK, does 2C-B make you more kinky than usual?

No, I'm kinky by nature And that exgirlfriend was some dirty bitch too, it wouldn't matter whatever substance we took, even with psychedelics the sex was rough. With stimulants, agressivity was reaching dangerous points. Funny times xDDD

2C-B itself is very tactile, erotic, sensitive. It works more on the body than on the mind, and it gives you also some empathy a-la low dose of MDMA. For some reason it was marketed as aphrodisiac on Netherlands smartshops until it was illegal

 

[Solipsis]

For some reason it was marketed as aphrodisiac on Netherlands smartshops until it was illegal

Are you sure though? This is true for the German product 'Eros'... but at least Blue Mystic (2C-T-7) and 2C-T-2 (Apparently as is) were just sold with a pamphlet detailing effects. It's unlikely the smartshops merely touted it as aphrodisiac... but I can't speak for the terrible tourist shops in Amsterdam which are poor excuses for smartshops, many of which got closed because of the drug tourism.
I am all for smartshops with good regulation for proper informing of customers etc, but tourist shops just want to sell stuff relatively more scrupulously or carelessly and are way too easy and available... if you make it that easy, you just increase chances of tourists approaching it way too casually. It's catering to abuse, just because it is popular and a smart commercial move.

I wonder if magic truffles are getting banned... it's pretty ridiculous that only mushrooms were banned (none it should have been banned at all) - it was a weak response to European political pressure after a French girl died under extenuating circumstances. But ignorant people scapegoated the drugs, and even a professional panel researching the risks came up with a nuanced picture showing low risk... but as always with this kind of thing, there isn't really much of a supporting basis knowing about this stuff and fighting for it, so in politics you score easy points pandering to the ignorant and afraid masses, the politicians being just as clueless.
2C-B was also likely banned here merely from getting popular, and being too poorly understood to withstand the general concern from spreading awareness. It's banned in so many countries that was probably an eventuality that we would join them, since we are such a small and inassertive country when it comes to international politics... it's surpassed the progressive, liberal and 'sober' rational easygoing mentality we are (were) known for... even with cannabis, many countries have surpassed us.

Don't take the legal status seriously as an indicator of risk or harm. There is almost no relationship between legal status and harm potential, so never use that to conclude anything... I am not saying break the law, it's fine to reluctantly follow them for a bunch of reasons... but they don't implicitly always teach you about risk.

 

[drseltsam]

No, I'm kinky by nature And that exgirlfriend was some dirty bitch too, it wouldn't matter whatever substance we took, even with psychedelics the sex was rough. With stimulants, agressivity was reaching dangerous points. Funny times xDDD

2C-B itself is very tactile, erotic, sensitive. It works more on the body than on the mind, and it gives you also some empathy a-la low dose of MDMA. For some reason it was marketed as aphrodisiac on Netherlands smartshops until it was illegal

Interesting. I read several reports of people who say that they are kinky but under 2C-B this goes away and they turn vanilla. While this is not completely true for me, 5-6 mg will make me very much vanilla and all I want to do is to make love :D

 

[MSK]

Are you sure though? This is true for the German product 'Eros'... but at least Blue Mystic (2C-T-7) and 2C-T-2 (Apparently as is) were just sold with a pamphlet detailing effects. It's unlikely the smartshops merely touted it as aphrodisiac... but I can't speak for the terrible tourist shops in Amsterdam which are poor excuses for smartshops, many of which got closed because of the drug tourism.
I am all for smartshops with good regulation for proper informing of customers etc, but tourist shops just want to sell stuff relatively more scrupulously or carelessly and are way too easy and available... if you make it that easy, you just increase chances of tourists approaching it way too casually. It's catering to abuse, just because it is popular and a smart commercial move.

I wonder if magic truffles are getting banned... it's pretty ridiculous that only mushrooms were banned (none it should have been banned at all) - it was a weak response to European political pressure after a French girl died under extenuating circumstances. But ignorant people scapegoated the drugs, and even a professional panel researching the risks came up with a nuanced picture showing low risk... but as always with this kind of thing, there isn't really much of a supporting basis knowing about this stuff and fighting for it, so in politics you score easy points pandering to the ignorant and afraid masses, the politicians being just as clueless.
2C-B was also likely banned here merely from getting popular, and being too poorly understood to withstand the general concern from spreading awareness. It's banned in so many countries that was probably an eventuality that we would join them, since we are such a small and inassertive country when it comes to international politics... it's surpassed the progressive, liberal and 'sober' rational easygoing mentality we are (were) known for... even with cannabis, many countries have surpassed us.

Don't take the legal status seriously as an indicator of risk or harm. There is almost no relationship between legal status and harm potential, so never use that to conclude anything... I am not saying break the law, it's fine to reluctantly follow them for a bunch of reasons... but they don't implicitly always teach you about risk.

To be honest I was talking trusting my memory here, and it's not very trustable I remember reading something about 2C-B beeing sold on Netherlands smartshops until some old man died from doing it, and then they banned it, but didn't checked the facts. I think I read it from Escohotado's book about the history of drugs.

BTW you're right, legal status is never an indicative of how harmful could drugs be. We've got caffeine, the dirtiest of the stims, tobacco, alcohol, and now a long list of legal highs like Spice that are an unkwnown mix of shitty Huffman cannabinoids. Of course that legal status is not an indicative of anything.

 

[Solipsis]

I don't blame them for not banning caffeine (it's dirty but not particularly dangerous like actual stims), or synthetic cannabinoids since there are literally hundreds that popped up, people hardly ever really die (although I think plenty get hospitalized), so no emergency scheduling - it's just so many that it will take time for cannabinoid analogue laws to be passed at some point. Not saying synthetic noids are okay, just understanding that it is extremely hard for the law to keep up - some of them are already banned in certain places...
They ought to legalize weed and blow noids out of the water with some really quality stuff. I used to be interested in noids but really lost my appetite for them.

 

[riper33]

They ought to legalize weed and blow noids out of the water with some really quality stuff. I used to be interested in noids but really lost my appetite for them.

Is there any particular reason why one would prefer a synthetic cannabinoid to the cannabis bud if both are available?

Also since the discussion is taking a little turn, I could mention that I am looking for a good, easy going stim. I don't like caffiene and I feel meth, coke etc are too big health and addiction risks. I loved nicotine for the year or so I smoked, but again health and addiction are major put offs. I make do with chocolate at the moment, but it's not got a good kick. Any ideas? I would be using it may be once a week or so when my cannabis makes me sleepy, but I don't really want to sleep.

 

[Solipsis]

Sorry I didn't think anyone would mind since 2C-B was discussed?

Anyway there are technically some advantages to synthetic noids although not sure if it is enough to really keep the noid market afloat like:
- Price (a fine reason I guess)
- Consistent measurement of doses without having to test the strain of weed, although I guess you also have to technically check if your synthetic is pure (bad reason)
- Easier oral administration, although hash is too.. (bad reason)
- Effects or aspects can be selected, because some noids act similar to pure THC and others to pure CBD, etc. Cannabis is a full package deal, even if strains differ. (fine reason).

Stims and cannabis can be a bad mix, can easily make you tweaky and anxious... and drug recommendations are not really the point of the forum.
But in any case, my own experience is that amphetamine is the cleanest (dexamph actually which I now get prescribed) stim, meth packs more punch but unnecessary for functional purposes. Amph is mostly addictive if you try to get high and euphoric off it [what is the kick you are talking about], or become dependent on the functional advantage. Many research chemicals range from slightly dirty to very dirty versions, they all want to be amphetamine. Although for recreational purposes some RCs are unique. Only 2-FA felt dexamph-like to me, it may prove to be an effective functional stim.
Methylphenidate is shorter acting and can be milder than amph in some respects, but also more anxious or side-effect prone. Of course there are analogues as RCs but they tend to be less clean and more recreational. Other people react better to methylphenidate than amphetamine. Anyway one dose of methylphenidate I find absolutely tolerable, although the question is if tail end of cannabis makes a difference anxiety wise.

Modafinil would be by far the ideal wakefulness promoter though. It is not an actual stimulant, not addictive at all, doesn't get you high - no kick... but it's great for combatting sleepiness or the side-effects of sleep deprivation. It's what caffeine wants to be.

Not sure if oxiracetam would be an option, depends on whether you would take nootropics to begin with, but fwiw that one stimulates me. Might also potentiate many other drugs.
Armodafinil should be even better, it is the active isomer without the inactive one.
Adrafinil is a less or not regulated analogue, don't know if it is just as effective but IIRC it is not safe to use a lot of.
Can't comment on the vague other analogues.

 

[riper33]

Oh I didn't mind. Instead it turned out to be an opportunity to slip a recommendation request by. It was completely accidental though. I forgot recommendations were against the rules.

By kick I mean energy I guess. I feel very very lazy most of the times. Just something to get me active and moving about would be nice. I haven't tried amph or dexamp. Maybe those would suit my needs well. Nootropics is another category I am interested in getting into but haven't had the time or opportunity to study them. I wouldn't go for vague RCs anyway. Even if I do try out a few stims, they would be well studied and relatively risk free substance. I don't think I have a great addiction tolerance based on how I abuse cannabis.

 

[Solipsis]

Well, it's not a particular explicit rule... but conform the very philosophy of the forum (HR at core) we encourage sharing of information that is ideally provided as objectively as possible... so that everyone can make up their own minds about what they do or don't. If people start generalizing and recommending and silently assume that everyone reacts to a drug in the same way they themselves react to it, that value is eroded.

I am giving my own account (or try to) on the stims... it's a way 'around' the issue just like our comparison threads (most visual, most gentle, most ...) are a way around it. Well not undermining the rules, but respecting the approach enough so that we can avoid out-of-the-blue drug recommendations with too little actual information as to why.

^ OK i understand. Good that you are looking for energy rather than a high, but it can still lead to addiction indeed. So yes be careful, weigh the pros and cons and try to implement as many safeguards as possible. If you only have a few doses of a pharmaceutical stimulant for the occasional functional use, that is a more restrictive starting point than getting a baggie of powder and just bumping away at it until you feel you're there.

Even with good intentions you should expect that it disinhibits you, especially if you are a little tired (which don't feel much anymore but still are), and maybe a bit stoned or tipsy... the less subtle stims wouldn't only solve your drop in energy, but also provide a lot of new motivation, you want to 'get the party started' and soon enough you may find that you're on a roll with whatever activity you are doing.
With that "now that things are going so well, I will .... " mentality, it can be hard to say it's enough - obviously it will mess with your ability to sleep.. so it is smart to anticipate all of that - you'll need to make the tough decision to quit while you're ahead - or despite that you're ahead is more what it can feel like.

What do you expect to do for an activity if you'd take a stim?

 

[riper33]

I understand how explicit recommendations don't make a point. What I wanted was exactly your opinions and experiences on different stims. I wouldn't use anything someone randomly recommends anyway.

I would generally be doing my graduate research, assignments, or be at my software engineering job. Nothing too demanding, but I need something that keeps me motivated towards the work and from being distracted. Sounds an ideal job for dexamph right?

 

[Solipsis]

If you think you might have attention issues, get screened for ADHD - although you'd have to basically have had it even as a child... When young I was just as chaotic and absent-minded, but I managed to cope so it was never considered seriously... took a real hard second look to see it, but in retrospect I had considerable attention issues back then, but compensated with intelligence and support from parent, to avoid real problem with functioning.

If you don't have that, how long do you think you need something for motivation and against distraction? If for only a short while being more busy than you have been in years is one thing, you might expect that to return to a more reasonable level... otherwise be careful because you are setting yourself up for dependency this way - from what you said before it sounded less "needed". And if you do need it, best is to have a prescription so that you are supervised.

I've self-medicated with various stuff in my life, and I wish I had arranged for supervision and prescriptions for most of it instead trying to rely on self control.

Modafinil does not help with motivation... even ADD meds (I don't have the hyperactivity) don't really make me or help me do stuff that I am opposed to, but distraction / chaos is definitely not a reason anymore for avoiding stuff, and when I do get started on tasks, it flows more naturally and at normal energy level than it used to.

Some people respond better to methylphenidate and others to dexamph.. but those two are most effective for ADHD/ADD.. However trying them does not actually tell you that you have it.

Depending on where you live, getting a short-term MPH or dex script might even be relatively easy (I hear it is in the US), even if you are only a partial match for the criteria for having ADHD... you could at the very least try your GP and explain that you are having issues and that you would like to try meds for a definite period, or for occasions / for the purpose you mentioned. Maybe he won't refer you to a shrink for a full evaluation.

Of course it all kind of depends on whether the stress you are getting from distractions and lack of motivation is normal/reasonable or if it is from real attention issues. Continuous distraction causes a constant low-level indecisiveness that can make tasks exhausting to keep up...
But its also possible you just have a lot of pressure and there might be other reasons why you consider stims..

Hard for other people to say what is enough suffering / pain / problems to remedy it. Exhaust other possibilities / explanations first... if not, then I guess it's serious enough.

 

[riper33]

When young I was just as chaotic and absent-minded, but I managed to cope so it was never considered seriously... took a real hard second look to see it, but in retrospect I had considerable attention issues back then, but compensated with intelligence and support from parent, to avoid real problem with functioning.

This does describe me pretty well actually. And I've had a feeling that I might be ADHD, but I didn't give it much thought back then. I'm in the US. Should I talk to my primary care physician regarding this? How to go about that? Do I call him and ask for an appointment because I want to get screened for ADHD?

EDIT: I was just looking at amph/dexamph and dexmethyhlphenidate. I can't take those because I have an over active thyroid and that would cause a problem. Such a warning is not given for methylphenidate however.

 

[Solipsis]

Such a warning is not given for methylphenidate however.

It is though, and dexmethylphenidate is nothing other than the primarily active isomer that makes up half of regular methylphenidate.

That's unfortunate.. I assume it was confirmed with blood works and everything, the hyperthyroidism?

 

[riper33]

Yes. Just 2 months ago. I was rapidly losing weight, had no appetite (cannabis really helps me eat), was unable to focus, had increased anxiety and almost depression. I take 30mg methimazole everyday and it's getting better. Thankfully it doesn't interact with any psychedelics. Other than the surge in nausea when I take it along with some psych in the morning. Made me throw up again recently.

 

[pofacedhoe]

I don't blame them for not banning caffeine (it's dirty but not particularly dangerous like actual stims)

i disagree, it plays a huge role in the behaviour of people in power and as such is questionable. its not a drug of peace . may not damage the health of the individual but for society it definitely is bad. it makes opiates a million times more juicy and therefore harder to control just look at america

because i used to have it and feel crazy and now i dont my life feels sane and happy. its endemic and it makes society more aggressive generally hence people love it for competitive spirit but for the soul and long term decision making to ensure humanities survival it falls short so consistently

its making our world ever more "be awake everyone else is..."

 

[Solipsis]

Maybe but if you also suppose that people will stimulate themselves no matter what, and always find something... is caffeine the worst one?

Hmm amph is much less jittery - would it be better if legal instead? But I don't see the influence on decision making of people in power - and I have no idea what kind of decisions they would make it they were tired. What do you base your conviction on?

 

[psy997]

But I don't see the influence on decision making of people in power - and I have no idea what kind of decisions they would make it they were tired. What do you base your conviction on?

He's speaking in regards to the effects of a stimulated population, not stimulated government.

 

[Solipsis]

What did I say differently that suggests I'm missing the point? Behavior and decision-making go hand in hand and we both use the term 'people in power'...