Feeding 2C-B to psych-virgin housemates and a few questions about it...

[riper33]

Sundays make sense too.

We tried 2C-B yesterday, but it went far from ideal. For 2-3 hours, no one could feel shit. I was gonna redose, but I saw your comment and decided against it. One of my housemates, because this did not hit him, dropped acid (Do they share cross tolerance? It didn't seem like he was hit with the full 100ug). I vaped a lot of weed and finally saw pretty visuals, but it didn't feel like 20mg dose. Even the last time I took 25mg, I didn't really see much till I vaped a lot of weed over it.

The guy who dropped acid seemed to be having a really good time till I slept. The night sky was clear and there were lots of stars. We spent a lot of time just staring at patterns in the sky, he was laughing a lot, I had music playing which he seemed to enjoy a lot, so not a bad time overall. I'll see them when they wake up now, but I'm disappointed with the 2C-B.

I cannot even find reliable info for 2C-B tolerance. How soon can I try it out again, by myself, without complex social situations clouding my judgement of the trip? This was all Friday night. Sunday night sound good?

EDIT: Psychonaut wiki says tolerance does not build immediately and there are many instances of people getting high days in a row. Can I try again tonight even?

 

[Tranced]

I've always found 2c-b very gentle, and most people love it. However, just the other month I had somebody think his reality was a TV show that I was directing. That was off 22mg~. He was fine afterwards but I can tell he's still a bit suspicious of me.

Once I realised my MDMA honeymoon was over I started taking 2c-b in clubs. It was definitely more reflective and introspective than just taking MDMA pills. I'd start pondering if my dancing was weird or if I was too quiet. Other times I'd think I was better than everyone and everyone on MDMA looked weird. Then again, at times, it was just perfect. I always handled it though. You can never know with psychs. But I don't discourage them.

Funny annecdote: One time I was at the Ministry of Sound in London to see Sasha playing an absolutely storming progressive house set.

We were quite drunk before hand and took a standard else of 2c-b. Next thing you know me and my friend find each other and ask what the fucks going on. I was convinced we were at a gay club in Scotland (I'm not gay and it was Prog in London), and that it was playing playing very cheesy commercial trance, then my friend explained where we were. All these gay charvers seemed to be doing dramatically weird dances and seemed way too happy.

We just had to leave, it was too weird; and for added effect, just as Sasha played my mates favourite tune, sunscreen - perfect motion (boys own mix).

We're not homophobic by the way, but if you understand the difference between London/Prog/Sasha and your typical UK (Scottish) club/gay chavs/very cheesy trance, then you might be able to gauge how deleririous we were.

Case in point: don't get drunk before hand. It's incredibly odd.

 

[riper33]

So it's been an hour since I snorted some 8mg this morning. I would call this my first 2C-B experience because I wasn't really able to think during the previous 2.

I had 75mg of cannabis oil around 9am. At around 10am I started feeling the THC and decided to fuck it and snort some 2C-B. I believed psychonaut wiki in that tolerance doesn't set right away, and I'm inclined to think they are right. I broke a 20mg capsule, separated 8mg and insufflated it using a $10 bill. Cheap, I know. It doesn't burn right fucking away. For a few seconds after snorting I was wondering what the fuss is about and then the burn hit me. It wasn't very painful, but it was persistent and very annoying.

In 10 minutes I got brighter colours, gentle drifting etc. I had some good breakfast. Appetite was perfect because the THC is also hitting me now. Then I set out for a walk in the park. Everything is very colourful. More so than notice on LSD. The colours are soft and appealing rather than bright and striking like with LSD. Unlike MDMA, I couldn't get myself to lose inhibition and get myself to lie down on the grass with headphones when there were people all around. I tried, but found it uncomfortable and soon got up. There was a great sense of wonder about the place. I was walking in circles around and in between trees staring at the branches and the sky through them. Headspace was mainly focused on how this is finally 2C-B that's hit me and how wonderful this experience is. Subtle ans easy going.

That got me thinking that us not feeling the 2C-B last night was us not trying. With this one, it seems easy to mask the effects of psychedlia with a general sense of well being and happiness at lower doses. I remember the girl once came back from outside and she was like the clouds are so wonderful and started describing the colours and shit. I asked if she was feeling it hit, and she said no. We vaped weed and she was surprised and pleased at how mellow the vaping high was compared to smoking. I think it has more to do with weed amplifying the subtle 2C-B headspace than it being a difference of vaping or smoking. I still don't know how she didn't see visuals like I was seeing though.

If not for the pain, I think 2C-B would've been an even more popular psychedelic because snorting is like 0 to full on psychedelia in 30 minutes. And it's so easy going, I can almost turn it on or off at will. And even with the pain, this isn't really a bad option. You gotta hold it together for 15-20 minutes slowly breathing in and out of that nostril. For reference I have 2C-B HCl, which is supposed to hurt less, right? I still don't know if I have it in me to snort the other 12mg I have lying. I know I will love the effects, but I don't want to take much more annoying pain than I got with 8mg. Maybe I'll just dissolve it in water and drink it.

"I've always found 2c-b very gentle, and most people love it. However, just the other month I had somebody think his reality was a TV show that I was directing. That was off 22mg~. He was fine afterwards but I can tell he's still a bit suspicious of me."

I think this has a lot to do with set and setting. Maybe even more so than psychs like LSD and shrooms. The guy possibly just didn't have it together at that time.

Also yesterday, I did get drunk before hand. I drank a beer before the 2C-B hit me, and that got me very confused as to what I was feeling. Nothing like the delirium of a gay club though lol.

 

[Solipsis]

A few things...

- Yes there is cross-tolerance between LSD and 2C-B
- Waiting two days between trips is not enough to get the full effect again, however tolerance is lower if the first trip was not intense but it is relatively high if you very recently took a psychedelic like your friend dropping the LSD. - Relatively speaking, snorting 2C-B is intense, usually more psychedelic I'd say, and more likely to overcome tolerance.
- There is also something like setting-based tolerance, which is the situation which can mask or potentiate effects. Also trying something like this for the first time can often be unusual in terms of having to get used to the effects. But it's hard to rely on this - some people happen to react strongly right away...

So, trying so often with not much time in between will lower your chances of success if you keep trying... granted, if you or friends only got mild effect it may not count as much for tolerance, but it makes your reaction all the more uncertain. If you keep trying it will also make it unclear how strongly you react to what doses since you don't really know if it is the tolerance acting up or not.

Ideally you'd wait about 5 days, otherwise you'd have to take high enough doses but if the tolerance ends up being less of an issue you can 'overdose' (even if physically benign). So I think the more you push this the more unpredictable you are making a success on the 4th.
For these reasons it's just not really possible to hurry up the process and learn how to handle 2C-B in the course of a few days to be ready for one special occasion, or well you could but it would involve taking more and more risk by having to take larger doses in order to combat tolerance that may be weak or strong... becoming more unpredictable the more contradicting and complicating factors you bring into the picture. If it was as simple as with alcohol where you can just redose until at the desired level of effect, people wouldn't bother with the careful and slow titration.

 

[riper33]

I have npt tried redosing yet, so cannot comment on that, but as far as tolerance goes, I am inclined to believe the psychonaut wiki. As even the snorting was coupled with cannabis, I wanted the unfiltered 2C-B experience. So, Sunday morning, I had something like 35mg. I was expecting tolerance and a weak product to give me just some effects, but I was floored. The come up was fast and intense. Along with my thyroid medication that also induces nausea, I threw up. My first time throwing up on a psych.

There was also a lot of anxiety till I threw up. It was already way more visual than I expected. I would compare it 200ug LSD visually, but with the headspace of 100ug. I sat at the porch and row of houses on the opposite side of the street would not sit straight. The ground was wobbling and breathing, and grass was growing and shrinking. The movements were softer than LSD. Everything was. The colours were very very bright and at times I was thinking, "I don't know what to do with so many colours". After throwing up, I just lay down on my bed with music and got lost in psychedlia for an hour. This was from T+1 to T+2 hours. I wanted to get up for a walk, but couldn't get myself to. The body load was very intense. Even when I finally did get up, I stumbled.

Finally, I found myself able to take a walk in the park. Thankfully, there was no one there. I could shed my inhibitions and lied down on the grass. Sense of touch was MDMA level heightened, and everything was just the softest, smoothest thing to feel. The visuals were still intense, but not as much as they were an hour ago. The headspace was also lovey dovey like MDMA. I remember thinking of this housemates I recently got to know, and my mind was telling what great friends they are. I spent 2 hours lazing in bliss in the park.

Then I returned, made some pasta and had a video conference with my parents while eating them. I was very comfortably able to talk. Got lost in my head a few times, but it was a good talk overall. Not possible on even 100ug LSD. I then kicked the trip back up with weed, watched a movie, TV, masturbated etc. Residual effects stayed with me till I slept at night, though weed had much to do with keeping things rolling.

Overall, I think I got at least a 30mg experience even though I had dosed 25mg 36 hours ago, and 8mg snorted 24 hours ago. I'm not dosing today, cause I've had enough for the time being, but I really don't think there is much tolerance developed. Also, 2C-B seems to show it's true power only at doses >30mg. 25mg really felt weak, and without weed it almost acts as 50-60mg of MDMA. Barely noticeable, but a general sense of beauty, wonder, and well being.

I'm not dosing this for another 2 weeks now, and then I'll try out 30mg to see how tolerance less 30mg feels like. May be even tolerance is person dependent and since I haven't used this much, I didn't develop it. I really did not expect to be hit by the brick last morning. It was fun though. I was so glad to be finally feeling the effects in full swing. And I cannot imagine how someone would have it in them to drop 100mg of this. I'd go up to 50mg once, but don't think I can take any more.

 

[drseltsam]

I would disagree with Solipsis, although I think he is one of the most educated person in this forum. You should wait for much longer than 5 days. I guess the physical harm is it that much of an issue with 2C-B but you should give your mind some time to rest.

 

[riper33]

I asked how soon would tolerance for 2C-B dissipate and he was just advising me on the minimum time in between doses to feel full effects. I think 5 days is more than enough for that considering I tripped thrice in 3 days.

Of course all harm reduction practices should be taken into account and I literally abused 2C-B over this long weekend. It's back to 2 week breaks now.

 

[Solipsis]

I would disagree with Solipsis, although I think he is one of the most educated person in this forum. You should wait for much longer than 5 days. I guess the physical harm is it that much of an issue with 2C-B but you should give your mind some time to rest.

thnx, but I guess you're right. Tolerance gradually drops off, how long you should wait depends on how much reduced effect you are willing to afford.

Tripping only every few months or once a year is much more special, waiting for 2 weeks is better than one. The 5-7 days I suggest are common practice and IMO to avoid real disappointment that people regularly get if they trip with even less time in between.

Possibly some softer psychedelics (including 2C-B) produce a little less serious tolerance, especially if there is less full on tripping.. while highly potent and efficacious psychedelics might produce more marked tolerance. Not sure if that can simply be accounted for by hardcore psychedelics just having a much higher tendency to produce strong experiences, or if it is also correlated relatively speaking. Additionally, the shorter acting the psychedelic the less tolerance you may also expect - probably a factor in why something like DMT doesn't produce that much tolerance, although during the hour or so of afterglow there is tachyphylaxis: very acute tolerance.

In my opinion mushrooms or LSD or heavier psychedelics definitely urge us to give our mind a break to integrate the experiences.. 2C-B can be very emotional and aesthetic / tactile, but it does not jar me on such a deep level that I need a lot of time to recouperate.

Anyway 2 weeks is a good idea, but I agree that it can be shorter or longer depending on the specific drug and how heavily it is dosed, as well as your general mindset.

Abuse or not riper, being able to trip multiple times in a row still isn't really normal - but it is very possible that the likelihood of tolerance is less strict compared to some other psychedelics... but that doesn't mean that anyone should rely on it or assume that 2C-B doesn't really produce tolerance.
Especially if you achieve a powerful, intense / impressive psychedelic trip on one day, you should generally assume that if you are impatient and only wait mere days, a second one after that is far too likely to be disappointing, not always perhaps... but you can't keep topping them.

On the long run it's also a shame to ruin the novelty by being impatient.. stretch it out and it will stay interesting and worthwhile a lot longer, and it is also more responsible and psychologically healthy.

 

[drseltsam]

Possibly some softer psychedelics (including 2C-B) [...]
In my opinion mushrooms or LSD or heavier psychedelics definitely urge us to give our mind a break to integrate the experiences.. 2C-B can be very emotional and aesthetic / tactile, but it does not jar me on such a deep level that I need a lot of time to recouperate.

Again, as much as I respect you I think you should be more careful with what you state. Many people here, such as the creator of this thread, use drugs very carelessly.

It is very hard to say what effects 2C-B has as we know so little. The acute neurotoxicity *seems* to be low but I still do not think this substance is harmless. You are presenting the hints yourself: tactile enhancements. What does this mean? That certain parts of your brain are more active than usual. What will it do when you do this every 2 weeks for a longer period of time? I do not know the answer and I am not aware of any studies in this field. Same goes for the other effects on the mind: it is very hard to say what this does to people.

 

[riper33]

Many people here, such as the creator of this thread, use drugs very carelessly.

I know I need to learn a lot, but I used to think I'm pretty careful in what and how I use it. This 3 day 2C-B binge is the first time I've taken a psychedelic twice in one week. I really do not plan on repeating such behavior. I did that because I barely felt any effects the first two times. I wouldn't have dosed the next day otherwise. I would still like to get better at using psychs the right way as I was discussing with Solipsis over previous posts on this same thread. If you have any particular points as to how I can be more careful with my usage, I'd be glad to hear them and improve.

 

[Solipsis]

I'd like to get a few things straight

- Me saying that my personal experience with 2C-B is that I have less problems integrating profound existential or paradigm-shattering experiences simply because I don't have such extreme states of consciousness with it, is not saying it's either harmless or harmful, I was just commenting on riper mentioning having such difficulties with things like frequent LSD use. I simply stated I have much less issues like that with 2C-B, there is nothing to agree or disagree with - it is my experience.

- And lots of talk about tolerance is not the same as justifying frequent use or abuse with any drug either... it is a discussion on reduced effect from tolerance, regardless of whether it is wise to dose 2C-B often.

- But now that you mention 2C-B risks, of course it should be used with care... and nobody should get the idea that you should just dose it as often as you like, or as often as your tolerance allows. But on the other hand, it has been known for decades and has been sold quasi-legally in smartshops in my country in the 90s along with 2C-T-2 and 2C-T-7. They were banned, but not because anything bad ever happened especially not with 2C-B (2C-T-7 can be dangerous if not used right). 2C-I is kind of known for its propensity to produce HPPD, and 2C-B should be taken with care for that reason... also the regular rules apply to responsibly using basically any psychedelic.
But the reasons for that are very general, not because there is any reason to believe it is particularly harmful acutely or chronically, aside from the risks that come with the abuse of any psychedelic (again HPPD, higher risk of mental issues, not integrating trips properly, for me: losing healthy skeptic thinking and becoming 'inappropriately' open-minded, some immunomodulating effects with some of them like 2C-X though not serious but it can possibly influence sensitivity or resistance to getting sick, like a common could you otherwise might have resisted, or perhaps the opposite: healing more quickly, we only have anecdotal evidence so it's too hard to really say how much of a factor it is).
Tactile enhancement is a poor argument for suspecting 2C-B, it's basically a wild guess along the lines of "nothing is for free". And no, almost no drug can be taken with indefinite repetition... but 2C-B has been around for a long time and is not really associated with truly worrisome dangers, don't know of any case studies or it ever being linked to an illness etc - so just applying the general rules should be fine. No need to overdramatize, a real concern and real argument is needed why extra precautions should be taken, for example with 2C-T-7 or NBOMe compounds which do raise concerns.

I don't think anyone here is arguing that you should carelessly use these drugs and - not sure about everyone else - but I personally did not recommend taking 2C-B with only days in between.. no reason why it would be actually dangerous, but it's not wise either. However in comparison 2C-B is quite benign.

 

[drseltsam]

Goedenavond Solipsis,

thanks for your very detailed explanation I think we are pretty much on the same page, just that you saying "Ideally you'd wait about 5 days" was perhaps easy to misunderstand.
I also understand your rationale why you think 2C-B ist not too bad physically but honestly this is just anecdotal evidence. I am not aware of any systematic study on the health effects of 2C-B. It is pretty clear that 2C-B will not kill you if you are not stupid but for the other change it is really hard to say what it does without studies. Perhaps one day, in a much better world, there will be people who conduct such a study

riper33,

I would strongly suggest not combining drugs and making breaks for at least 1-2 month between usage for something like 2C-B. For other stuff like mushrooms, LSD or MDMA I would strongly advice for at least 3 months breaks. Meaning if you took any of them, do not take anything for 3 months.

 

[riper33]

Dude, 3 fucking months!!?

The way I see it, there is no evidence that using these substances cause major problems if used reasonably frequently. I wouldn't do MDMA twice in 3 months because I know my brain needs that time to get serotonin levels back up. But 3 months for LSD or shrooms? Damn, that's not happening. I would refrain if like MDMA, there is clear evidence of damage, but otherwise, I'd rather err on the riskier side of caution.

I study-work-research for the week and this my way of unwinding during the weekend. Maybe once I mature a bit, I can hold my usage down to once a month or so, but right now, I don't really see a point. I am also very friendless here, with not many activities I can do without spending a lot of money I don't have. Psychs make my weekend go by slower, make it better, and are really cheap. Less than $5 for a cracking weekend? Why would I not do that? They also make little hikes so much better and keep my mood pleasantly alleviated throughout the week. I'm still trying my best to better integrate this use in regular life and the long weekend was a major anomaly in 3 months of my psych usage. I'm not saying I'm some ideal user, but I don't think I've been abusing drugs either.

Also, I don't combine drugs. Just cannabis during the come down of a psychedelic, but I'm past the point I call cannabis a drug. I use it more like a daily supplement. Maybe that's a bit too excess, but again I see no harm in doing it. Why not vape 0.1-0.2g cannabis every evening if it makes my meals, my tv time, my music and my sleep better?

The only other time I combined drugs was when I took 2C-B on the tail end of an MDMA experience. I wouldn't even have acquired any 2C-B, but PiHKAL says that 2C-B after the comedown of MDMA can be very therapeutic and needs to be further experimented on. That's why I got 2C-B in the first place.

And well, sorry, but if careful use demands 3 month breaks, then for now, I'd rather be careless. If you have a more concrete reason for taking bigger breaks rather than just the "we don't know what happens", I'd unhappily adjust accordingly. I don't want to get permanently fucked up over any drug, but (from anecdotal evidence) I feel that is a very rare possibility if I use them just once or twice a fortnight.

 

[yepyepwoah]

I have tripped every week for long periods. Sometimes a week off to make it two. After a while it sorta self regulates, like "fuck I just do jot really wanna trip now" and I go a month or more.

If you wanna do it, do it. Try not to go nuts in the process, and you should be good. The returns may be increasingly diminishing, you prolly wont be enveloped in lght, one with everything, every weekend, but fuck it.

 

[Solipsis]

Goedenavond Solipsis,

thanks for your very detailed explanation I think we are pretty much on the same page, just that you saying "Ideally you'd wait about 5 days" was perhaps easy to misunderstand.
I also understand your rationale why you think 2C-B ist not too bad physically but honestly this is just anecdotal evidence. I am not aware of any systematic study on the health effects of 2C-B. It is pretty clear that 2C-B will not kill you if you are not stupid but for the other change it is really hard to say what it does without studies. Perhaps one day, in a much better world, there will be people who conduct such a study

riper33,

I would strongly suggest not combining drugs and making breaks for at least 1-2 month between usage for something like 2C-B. For other stuff like mushrooms, LSD or MDMA I would strongly advice for at least 3 months breaks. Meaning if you took any of them, do not take anything for 3 months.

Yeah ideally 5 days meant at least 5 days, not ideal in general - the context was impatience..

As for the dangers of 2C-B: nobody could ever really argue against being careful and leaving a lot of time in between trips, if that feels right to you you should do it and its great HR... but suggesting that I am giving irresponsible advice is another thing. It boils down to whether your perspective is that 2C-B is "innocent until proven guilty" or "guilty until proven innocent".
No, 2C-B isn't really studied properly and other psychedelics only to limited extent either, and you cannot draw conclusions on 2C-B safety from say LSD or even the analogous mescaline... and I know what anecdotal evidence means, however it is not really fair to shrug off their entire history of use. It's not unreasonable to expect that if compounds like these bore very significant health effects, at least some of them would eventually get associated and suspected since the entire world is a public study, it's just extremely chaotic, but also the largest sample size we know. So a fair question is how significant risks are, if people have abused these compounds and we have not really seen anything considerably more serious than reported.

A warning is smart to give, just like we should remember that all drug use carries risk, but I don't buy the rationale that after such a long time of use and the scarce evidence we do have like meta-studies on the mental health correlations with LSD use suggest that psychedelics like these are quite benign and agonizing 5HT2A is at most expected to eventually affect higher consciousness and perception (HPPD in the latter case). Never heard of tactile problems as a sort of variant on HPPD. If the pharmacology is more complex, other issues may arise that may be part of side effect and what makes some psychedelics atypical.

So IMO there is some burden of evidence for the both our perspectives: there need to be more studies, but you also would need to make your concerns more concrete and valid... if not, then it would be that much harder to formulate a study that would investigate your concerns.

Correct this is a HR forum, and no not everyone here adheres too strictly to all safety precautions, but I don't believe it's right to suggest that people doing say 2C-B once every few weeks is reckless. As for weekly use, I do not recommend it to keep up for a year like I have, not at all - but it should be fine to take 2C-B a few times with not a whole lot of time in between - like a week - if you generally wait longer.

Some people however, who are predisposed to certain issues like HPPD / delusions / serious anxiety, may be less tolerant of chronic effects that are more subtle in neurotypicals.

This thread covers 2C-B side effects and after effects: http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=398829

 

[riper33]

Thanks for linking that thread. People seem to have a pretty positive opinion of regular 2C-B use. I'm not getting more though. This was never meant to be a substance I would stick to like LSD or MDMA. I have something around 75mg left which I will split in 2 doses after which I don't think I will ever feel like getting 2C-B again. Would rather get something I haven't tried before.

I did 2CB every friday night for 6 weeks, then a few random weeks following that when I could get it for a while. I never had a bad come down ever other then the tired joint/muscle body feeling. I felt better in those 2 months then I've ever felt in my life, after each experience something new would come into my life and Ive never forgotten it. I wish I still felt like that but the memory remains. I never noticed feeling cracked out at all, no head fuck or anything like it. Didnt even notice any tolerence to be honest. I could die happy if I could try it just one more time.

Oh and I made myself an account on www.chemdiary.com. It seems like a pretty effective tool to track and moderate drug use. Also it would be nice to go over the little notes you can leave for each trip say 5 years later.

 

[MSK]

I personally hate 2C-x. Would prefer LSD or a tryptamine anyday, even back on the times I was still a newbie. Too much stimulation and not very much psychedelia is a bad trip for me. It's like a low dose of acid, I hate beeing on the doors of something awesome but not beeing able to open that door

 

[riper33]

Same here dude. I'd rather do LSD over 2C-B any day. Nothing beats 100ug LSD for me. I enjoy the higher doses, but it doesn't stay relaxing anymore and on most weekends, I just want to chill and not figure the meaning of life, the universe and everything for 8 hours.

2C-B for me felt like just a chemical to have fun with. I didn't get too much stimulation, the visuals were beautiful (do not smoothly integrate with the environment like LSD visuals though), the headspace was very MDMA like so it's very difficult to feel bad about anything, and the velvetty touch it gives you is wonderful. However, using it to have a psychedelic experience is not it's optimum use imo.

 

[MSK]

Same here dude. I'd rather do LSD over 2C-B any day. Nothing beats 100ug LSD for me. I enjoy the higher doses, but it doesn't stay relaxing anymore and on most weekends, I just want to chill and not figure the meaning of life, the universe and everything for 8 hours.

2C-B for me felt like just a chemical to have fun with. I didn't get too much stimulation, the visuals were beautiful (do not smoothly integrate with the environment like LSD visuals though), the headspace was very MDMA like so it's very difficult to feel bad about anything, and the velvetty touch it gives you is wonderful. However, using it to have a psychedelic experience is not it's optimum use imo.

The only way I can think on a nice use for this one is for sex. I remember a lot of kinky sex with an exgirlfriend with 2C-E, 2C-B or 2C-I and GHB

 

[drseltsam]

MSK, does 2C-B make you more kinky than usual?