Exposing Children to Nudism/Naturism Inappropriate/Dangerous?

[SpiralusSancti]

O, yeah, check age limit for sex in European countries. Maybe some will be shocked, but it’s sure as fuck not as shocking as sick fucks in USA who bother kids with LGBTAQP+ shit.

 

[xtcgrrrl]

I live in a city that has a large, very accessible clothing optional beach and people go there in droves in the summertime. It is one of the most populated beaches in the summertime in all of Canada. There are literally thousands of nude people, as well as clothed.

The thing people need to realize is, if someone wants to sexualize your body, they will do it no matter if you are fully clothed or nude. There are parts of the world where women are completely covered from head to toe, and their ankle suddenly being exposed causes sexual desire in men. I sexualize men all the time when I check them out, looking at their body parts through their clothing and imagining what they must be like naked. When they actually are naked, there's just more to look at, but I may be at a nude beach and not sexualizing men whatsoever because my mind just isn't there. I usually only sexualize men I'm attracted to and that doesn't change, whether they are fully clothed or not. And nobody is having sex on the beach or doing sexual things. Imagine that.

The human form in of itself is not sexual, unless the person is engaged in a sexualized act. But the body in space is not sexual, it's just a body. It's the gaze of the observer that determines the perspective about the value of that body, whether it's a sexual object, an object of art, an object of biology, etc. Sometimes when I'm at the nude beach, it makes me think about how humans are just animals, animals with a specific culture. In those cases the human body becomes an object of anthropology for me. There are many ways to look at it. And that's the point I'm trying to make here. What it represents changes based on the gaze of the viewer.

There are always children at the nude beach, and they themselves are nude. It's innocent and there is nothing wrong with it. Growing up, I showered with my mom or my dad when I was little. Were they "sexualizing" me? No. We were just cleaning ourselves and they were teaching me how. Plus it saves time to shower with me, than having to draw a bath later and wait for me to separately clean myself.

Consider that in many parts of the world, it's taboo for men to wear tight swim shorts like speedos where you can see their bulge. Or that in places in Asia it's taboo for men to even have their shirts off. Meanwhile in places like Saudi Arabia, women have to wear a full burka to go swimming.

The taboos around the human body are totally arbitrary and cultural. Spending time at a nude beach has shed so much light on my own values and biases about the human body. It also demystifies The body so that it's no longer only being exposed under special circumstances, like art, or porn, or the mass media. It's just nude bodies of people living their daily life while they're at a beach. You see the full range of body types, the hot ones, the unattractive ones, the young ones, the old ones. You see the full spectrum, to the point that everyone just blurs together and nudity is not a special thing anymore. Only the context makes it special, like if you meet someone special that you're attracted to, suddenly that particular nude body is an attractive body. But maybe if you just saw them walking around and didn't know them, they would blend in with all the other naked bodies. It becomes readily apparent that our trivial biases about the body are both personal and also a bunch of bullshit. There's nothing so special about any individual one body that it deserves elevation or shame.

I guess the best way to really bring this topic home, is to think about nude statues like the Statue of David. They are inanimate objects and not even living people, yet people still project all kinds of values onto them. Some people think that children shouldn't even see those statues, while other people consider them art. Meanwhile they are just slabs of rock, technically.

Then you join topics like this one where people are asking if it's appropriate for children to be around nude adults, and it's hard to wrap your mind around, after you've seen a bajillion nude bodies of all types in a public space. I guess it really depends on the context. I wouldn't expose a child to a stripper straddling a pole, but I'd have no problem bringing them to a nude beach.

This is my favorite perspective, here. It is through the eye of the beholder that the human body is sexualized; the human body is not, in itself, a sexual object.

 

[xtcgrrrl]

I fail to see how children being around flopping dicks and pussies out in the open helps THEIR view of their bodies. And for the record most nudists and people preaching the body positive movement would do good with a bit of shame, its always guys with tiny dicks and their land whale wives, its easier to be " body positive" than it is to put down the quarter pounders and get on a treadmill.

You are bringing YOUR OWN perspective to this. I can tell you with authority that children under the age of 10 do not usually look at a naked human body and think sexual thoughts. (Source: I have children).

Furthermore, the idea that fat people are disgusting is likewise a cultural perspective. In the past, plump women were seen as desirable; this perspective shows up in our art, for one thing.

Additionally, there are lots of people who are “overweight” who were just born with genes for that sort of thing. My irl best friend eats healthier than I do and she did CrossFit but she’s still on the heavy side, because that runs in her family. She’s definitely healthier than me (and probably you too!)

 

[MuertaMan]

You are bringing YOUR OWN perspective to this. I can tell you with authority that children under the age of 10 do not usually look at a naked human body and think sexual thoughts. (Source: I have children).

Furthermore, the idea that fat people are disgusting is likewise a cultural perspective. In the past, plump women were seen as desirable; this perspective shows up in our art, for one thing.

Additionally, there are lots of people who are “overweight” who were just born with genes for that sort of thing. My irl best friend eats healthier than I do and she did CrossFit but she’s still on the heavy side, because that runs in her family. She’s definitely healthier than me (and probably you too!)

Hate to break it to you but your best friend eats healthy IN FRONT OF YOU and probably doesn't exercise at all and of course I bring MY PERSPECTIVE into it who the hell elses would it be? Everyone who comments on anything in life brings their own perspective thats how thinking works and Im more than happy I didn't grow up around naked adults and frankly I view anyone championing for being able to nude around nude children to be a bit suspicious. I think you put that hippie dippie shit first and how the child feels about it second which is seflish and gross.

 

[alasdairm]

Hate to break it to you but your best friend eats healthy IN FRONT OF YOU and probably doesn't exercise at all

don't be that guy, guy...

you think you know her best friend better than she does? even just implying that is idiotic.

stick to what you know.

alasdair

 

[nepalnt21]

he was wearing his underwear, you could see he had a dick or a buldge in his underwear. you can see women have breasts beneath their shirts. i don't really see a difference.. do you think that is bad?.. i can see how you would think so. i kind of did for a while... people wear speedos at the beach. i don't see it much different than exposing children to nudity. you can tell the difference between a man and a women. idk.

i mean, the way it sounded was like your dad was doing it on purpose, which is a bit creeperton.

maybe it was just the way you put it?

i don't think we should introduce shame of the body, but then there's also going out of your way to exhibit a bulge to a kid... which... is creepy.

 

[alasdairm]

So she can mock me and tell me she knows her friend is healthier than me huh?

two wrongs don't make a right.

if you can show me where i said that, i'll leave bluelight forever.

i'll save you the time. you can't. so i won't

alasdair

 

[xtcgrrrl]

So she can mock me and tell me she knows her friend is healthier than me huh? When she clearly knows I posted in a thread I have serious health problems right now (non of which related to being fat) and weaponized my honesty and used it to mock me? Nah I think I'll be "that guy" if I want to and if I were going to take advice it wouldn't be from a virtue signaling SJW

Lmaooo. The reason I said that she’s DEFINITELY healthier than you is because she isn’t a drug user. At all. Which, by definition, makes her healthier, even leaving aside her healthy lifestyle. And, for the record, I didn’t see the post you’re referring to here…paranoid much??

 

[MsDiz]

I have just edited and deleted posts which were rude and off topic.

Stay on topic in the thread and do not be rude in your replies please.

 

[foodcrisis]

i mean, the way it sounded was like your dad was doing it on purpose, which is a bit creeperton.

maybe it was just the way you put it?

i don't think we should introduce shame of the body, but then there's also going out of your way to exhibit a bulge to a kid... which... is creepy.

i personally found it to be creepy at the time, but i think about it now, we had a german shepard male with a huge ass dick. what is that supposed to be men dogs have dicks and women dogs don't, but people don't have dicks? i got two "Wtf" emblem comment things because of my post... all i'm saying is my father used to sleep in his underwear, if my sister saw him in the morning going to shower or walking around the house in general maybe she would wake him up or whatever, he would be in his underwear, there would be a bulge like any male wearing underwear, i didn't write he had an errection or go out of his way to point out his dick. i'm not really commenting at nepalnt21, more mal3violent... i don't think what i write is that hard to read. i write as simple as possible. i can think of some other posters that write more confusing than me, i won't name them. i dunno. no big deal. i even kind of felt like my father was a creep at the time, but when i think back about it, kids have to learn about the other sex at some point. i don't think my sister seeing my father in her underwear hurt her, and i don't think kids going to nudist beaches or whatever is bad. everybody must've been naked before they invented clothes.

 

[xtcgrrrl]

i personally found it to be creepy at the time, but i think about it now, we had a german shepard male with a huge ass dick. what is that supposed to be men dogs have dicks and women dogs don't, but people don't have dicks? i got two "Wtf" emblem comment things because of my post... all i'm saying is my father used to sleep in his underwear, if my sister saw him in the morning going to shower or walking around the house in general maybe she would wake him up or whatever, he would be in his underwear, there would be a bulge like any male wearing underwear, i didn't write he had an errection or go out of his way to point out his dick. i'm not really commenting at nepalnt21, more mal3violent... i don't think what i write is that hard to read. i write as simple as possible. i can think of some other posters that write more confusing than me, i won't name them. i dunno. no big deal. i even kind of felt like my father was a creep at the time, but when i think back about it, kids have to learn about the other sex at some point. i don't think my sister seeing my father in her underwear hurt her, and i don't think kids going to nudist beaches or whatever is bad. everybody must've been naked before they invented clothes.

My ex-FIL used to walk around in his bedroom naked, and he’d forget to close the door. More than once, I caught a glimpse of him (he’s NOT an attractive man so it was like but it’s his house so whatever.) We lived with my ex husband’s parents for most of my marriage so I used to be concerned about my children, as they were very small at the time, and I know they saw him a few times. I would ask my ex MIL to talk to him about it and she said she did but nothing changed. I don’t think my kids were very much harmed by it (they were WAY more traumatized by all the yelling and drama in that house! Kids are very sensitive to vibes like that) so I feel like if a household is calm and peaceful, that’s more important to their mental health

 

[Phobos]

Still no harm done right? Getting horny as a teen for seeing tits isn’t wrong in any way.

I didn't feel it was wrong, just annoying.

I still think what happened to you, and you can bet, to a lot of teens in similar situation (and for sure adults for sure too) is way more harmless to developing mind than sitting at your pc jerking of to some plastic fake ass stupid and stylized “sex”.

I guess like with most things, the less you are exposed to something, it the more you are sensitive to it.
And as you said if you watch porn but never see naked women NOT having sex, I can see how you might be training your mind to immediately think that any non fully clothed woman is obviously demanding to be approached with sexual advances.
Which is a small step away from thinking that any woman that you think is sexually attractive is asking for the same.

 

[mal3volent]

i personally found it to be creepy at the time, but i think about it now, we had a german shepard male with a huge ass dick. what is that supposed to be men dogs have dicks and women dogs don't, but people don't have dicks? i got two "Wtf" emblem comment things because of my post... all i'm saying is my father used to sleep in his underwear, if my sister saw him in the morning going to shower or walking around the house in general maybe she would wake him up or whatever, he would be in his underwear, there would be a bulge like any male wearing underwear, i didn't write he had an errection or go out of his way to point out his dick. i'm not really commenting at nepalnt21, more mal3violent... i don't think what i write is that hard to read. i write as simple as possible. i can think of some other posters that write more confusing than me, i won't name them. i dunno. no big deal. i even kind of felt like my father was a creep at the time, but when i think back about it, kids have to learn about the other sex at some point. i don't think my sister seeing my father in her underwear hurt her, and i don't think kids going to nudist beaches or whatever is bad. everybody must've been naked before they invented clothes.

you said your dad wore his underwear around your baby sister in order to show her the difference between men and women. And that you yourself thought he was a perv at the time. Plenty of dads wear underwear around their kids, who cares, but you are the one that made these odd statements that imply there was something weird going on. Don't try to turn it around on me.

 

[sunday.bird]

you aren't ever going to get an unbiased opinion on this forum or at least one that is representative of society at large

There's no such thing as an unbiased opinion when it comes to stuff like this. We all have different influences.

I feel as though my opinion is backed by common sense and the experiences of countless others

My efforts to examine your logic in the drag story time thread (and I suspect in this thread) just lead to a dead end. You spent 20+ pages avoiding explaining your position. I realize you don't accept that as reality. Maybe it isn't reality, but that's the best I can make out of the fog when I squint. I take this into account - that I could be wrong - with every discussion I enter.

I'm happy with the drag story time thread to examine what exactly is sexual about a man in a dress with makeup and a wig reading non-sexual stories to children. Also, literally nobody (including yourself) replied to my repeated comments about women wearing sexualized clothing reading stories to kids. Nobody is outraged about that. Look at how sexualized young female (and male) popstars are. Nobody here seems to care about that.

A disproportionate amount of hate seems to be aimed specifically at blokes who are probably gay wearing women's clothes.

no one here can tell you definitively how to feel about this topic

I don't want anyone to tell me how I feel. I moved the thread here from CEPS because I honestly wanted to leave BL after some of the comments directed at me in the drag thread. Moving the thread to P&S helped me remember that this forum doesn't revolve around the dozen or so (largely right wing) regulars that troll CEPS.

I like biased opinions. I don't give a fuck what mainstream society thinks.

Not to mention, the demographic here is unquestionably going to skew towards the carefree hippy vibe.

Good. Those are my peeps.

As is the case in this thread, there are going to be many stories told of happy memories and positive experiences. Those who have differing thoughts will be inclined to abstain either because they don't want to share their negative experiences or because they don't want to be labeled as uncultured prudes.

You're going to considerable lengths to discredit some of the opinions expressed here, but - with this particular point - I agree and I take that into account... but (at the same time) I'm not going to assume that something is definitely happening if there's no evidence of it.

What you're saying here could be applied to any environment.

Also keep in mind SLR in particular is full of people enthusiastically discussing "dangerous" sexual fantasies, 12 year old boys having sex with donkeys, infant children masturbating, etc.

The thread is in P&S partly for that reason, but also because nudity isn't inherently sexual and nudism isn't (necessarily) a fetish.

The way I generally approach shit is to think of all the potential risks and all the potential rewards.

Me, too.

What's the value of exposing your child to that environment?

I don't know where to begin answering that question because the value is so vast, IMO. There is nowhere else in Australia (or the world, probably) that has the same sense of community and openness. Children being raised in the suburbs or - worse - in a city are being raised around miserable people who don't give a fuck about anyone or anything.

I think you're specifically asking about the value of exposing my child to nudism. I'll answer this in a sec.

The things others have mentioned like body positivity and such, are there other ways you could help nurture that other than having them get naked around a huge group of strangers?

I didn't "get my kid naked" around strangers. She had a conversation or two with a nudist that was camped next to us. She wasn't naked. He was.

The only time she was naked for a prolonged period of time (I think) was when she did a Holi colour ceremony and then walked back to the tent nude.

Why is it such a priority to include them

It's not a priority to include them. I do see a lot of value normalizing the human form from an early age, but it's not particularly important to me. It's not high on my priority list. If the festival stopped being clothing optional, I wouldn't lose any sleep over it and I wouldn't seek out other places that happen to be clothing optional.

rather than erring on the side of caution and waiting until they're older and more capable of making informed decisions?

I will explain the value of nudity now, but - to be fair - can you explain the threat?

Like I said, I'm with her 24 hours a day. So: what is going to happen to her? Like what - specifically - is the threat? I still don't understand.

...

Most adults never shed the body shame stuff in their lives. I don't have the stats on that, but I know it's true because I've known shitloads of people who've gone through the liberating process of being socially naked around others for the first time. There is almost always significant baggage. People are self-conscious. We hate on ourselves in so many different ways, not just about our bodies.

There are people that grow up without this baggage. This helps them sexually later in life and it helps them in terms of general confidence and psychological wellbeing. (Again, I don't have studies or anything to back this up. It just seems obvious to me. But, I am crazy. So who knows?)

 

[sunday.bird]

I fail to see how children being around flopping dicks and pussies out in the open helps THEIR view of their bodies. And for the record most nudists and people preaching the body positive movement would do good with a bit of shame, its always guys with tiny dicks and their land whale wives, its easier to be " body positive" than it is to put down the quarter pounders and get on a treadmill.

The majority of women who go naked at Confest are young hippy girls with perky tits and perfect bodies. The majority of men are hot hippy guys who are fit AF and have big dicks. There are older ladies sometimes and overweight women. There are also plenty of middle aged dudes with varying dick sizes.

People I've known who go to nudist beaches described pretty much what you said. Never been to one so I don't know but they're also supposed to be a bit of a sausage fest.

Body positivity applies to everyone. I'm slim and fit and I look young for my age I think, but I still have insecurities...

I shouldn't be insecure.

We're all going to get old one day and sag and wrinkle.

Being 100% confident being naked around other people and not seeing them as sexual objects even though you can see their genitals, that's part of the way towards enlightenment. If you can't see that - with respect - I don't think you are looking in the right places.

 

[ColoradoOpiateGirl]

As a massage therapist, I see and touch partially naked bodies all day. There has to be a healthy balance. Modesty and respect for all people. Especially people who need protecting AND body confidence the most: kids.

This thread is titled: "Exposing Children to Nudism/Naturism -Inappropriate/Dangerous?"

As a mother, NO I would NOT actively take my daughter to a nude beach. I believe when she is an adult and if that is something that interests her, she can go for it. I also, however, will encourage self love and body acceptance. We are all naked in front of each other sometimes in our home and it's NBD.

I told her it's OKAY to touch her privates when she is alone. Pretty simple. Not in public, not on camera, not in front of others lol. That's normal.

In short, YES exposing your children to stranger's nude bodies intentionally i.e nude beach IS inappropriate. Not necessarily dangerous. But children can't consent. They don't need to see that to be comfortable with nudity.

Seeing friends, family members and classmates naked while changing, locker rooms and just people in public these days is enough and healthy.

My unpopular opinion as a mother is yes, it is inappropriate to expose children who cannot consent to stranger's nudism. Normal sex education and normal nudity they will encounter should be enough.

 

[SpiralusSancti]

I'm happy with the drag story time thread to examine what exactly is sexual about a man in a dress with makeup and a wig reading non-sexual stories to children. Also, literally nobody (including yourself) replied to my repeated comments about women wearing sexualized clothing reading stories to kids. Nobody is outraged about that. Look at how sexualized young female (and male) popstars are. Nobody here seems to care about that.

A disproportionate amount of hate seems to be aimed specifically at blokes who are probably gay wearing women's clothes.

Can’t speak for others but imho it isn’t even needed to point out to any sane person that average example of pop-star aimed to younger public obviously isn’t a good thing nor they are good roll-models. Drag story time and things like that isn’t moving in better direction compared to that, but just the opposite and is providing kids with even worse roll-models.
I don’t see many people on BL who support banning abortion, who want to abolish gay rights, who aren’t for liberalization of many things and so on. Strong stance against one specific controversial issue doesn’t mean they are extreme right-winged trolls.

 

[arrall]

I would venture a guess that children that grew up around nudity and it was explained to them properly are probably more well adjusted than kids that got told some fairy tale about the human anatomy. Or were shamed when they asked their Parents what those things were on a woman's chest and were told they were balloons. Or that a penis was a hairy hot dog.

The reason that so many kids grow up ashamed of their bodies and not understanding the human anatomy is because their parents told them too many Santa Claus and Tooth Fairy stories.

Nurse Ratched hit the nail on the head here.

Children going to places accompanied by their parents/guardians where non-sexualized nudity is present is probably not going to be damaging.
Repressing a child's curiosity about the human body and a teenager's sexuality is the actual source of a significant amount of trauma present in the world today.

 

[Cheshire_Kat]

I grew up on a farm in the 1940's and knew about "the birds and the bees" from the environment of nature all around me. Children used to skinny dip at the "crick" with absolutely no concern from the adults. There were Amish families living nearby but they simply did not participate; they just kept to themselves and lived their lives separate but at peace.

So glad we have so much "progress" in the world, don't ya know ...

 

[kiely]

I grew up on a farm in the 1940's and knew about "the birds and the bees" from the environment of nature all around me. Children used to skinny dip at the "crick" with absolutely no concern from the adults. There were Amish families living nearby but they simply did not participate; they just kept to themselves and lived their lives separate but at peace.

So glad we have so much "progress" in the world, don't ya know ...

Everything in moderation, right.
There is nothing wrong with nudity. That is perfectly natural and normal.

We all just have to be aware of being violated and exploited. And now maybe more often than not.

Beautiful comment though ! So engaged.