Exposing Children to Nudism/Naturism Inappropriate/Dangerous?

[nepalnt21]

i really have no idea whether or not it is 'harmful' (though i am confused as to how or why it would be harmful at all), but i am not happy that my family and society conditioned me to be so ashamed of my own body. i even find myself hiding my nudity from my kids, not out of a logical choice but out of that shame which was conditioned into me. kinda like how i'm an atheist but still have leftover illogical fears from the religious teachings indoctrination.

 

[swilow]

I agree and disagree. Men are more sexual but is that natural or is that something we condition?

It's both, but driven strongly by biology. There are evolutionary reasons why male and female have different sex drives and procreative styles. For all of our evolutionary history the cost to a woman for getting pregnant was 9 months of heightened interpersonal risk followed by years raising a child, while for men it could come at no cost at all, or at least a significantly reduced one . This fact plays out as men being generally more eager for sex, women being much more choosy about who they do it with. Despite our move into modernity, i think most of us would acknowledge that this sexual dynamic largely holds true even today. This doesn't say anything about whether this fact is good or bad, and it's not immutable either, but we don't slough off evolved behaviours easily. We're still mainly the same animal we were 150,000 years ago.

BTW, confest is great. I haven't been since I was a teenager but have great memories of the times I went. First wild acid trip, somehow ended up riding a tandem bike with this old wizard man around the festival site. I recall finding the nudity both fascinating and alarming, mainly cos I was a teenage boy.

 

[alasdairm]

i think the best judge of whether it's appropriate for your kids is you, bird.

to me, it's a little odd and unhealthy to immediately and automatically equate nakedness with sex/porn/etc. the way people did in the cep&s thread.

calmer heads seem to be prevailing here.

alasdair

 

[SpiralusSancti]

I was exposed to nudism and didn’t mind watching boobies and now I’m on BL
for real, I don’t see how being on a normal nudist beach could have harmed me more than Playboy

 

[xtcgrrrl]

@negrogesic

I agree and disagree. Men are more sexual but is that natural or is that something we condition?

If you give women a totally safe space where they aren't going to be judged as a slut or whatever, they're just as freaky and horny as men IMO. I'm into some pretty kinky shit and every single woman I've opened up to has been just as kinky.

From what I gather from my experiences talking to ladies (and studies/opinion polls, etc) women are often unsatisfied - relative to men - because sex is socially male-centric. This influences sexual motivation in women which influences our perception of "how sexual" the female gender is.

Women have less shame in terms of nudity and more shame in terms of sex, I think.

My daughter slaps her vagina. I was surprised when she started doing this, but (having done some research) it is actually a normal developmental thing. Kids of all ages (and genders) masturbate.

Dads are supposed to be terrified of their teenage daughters having sex but relatively indifferent when it comes to their sons. This must have an effect, as you say.

There's an enormous amount of subconscious shit we absorb from the moment we're born.



Even your sentence^ would have an effect on boys and girls if the happen to read it.

We constantly reinforce the idea that males are more sexual.

Fortunately, we are breaking down that sort of thinking and women are becoming more confident with their sexuality.



I think it has a hugely positive impact.

The kids that grew up in this festival are among the most confident and well adjusted kids I've ever met.

Confest - Australia's leading Alternative Lifestyle Festival

Australia's leading Alternative Lifestyle Festival

confest.org.au

Women are taught (by society, even if not by their parents) from an early age that their bodies/sexual feelings are things to be ashamed of. Really wish it wasn’t so; it does so much psychological damage. That’s why so many women have a complicated relationship with sex, and often wind up having unfulfilling sex lives. Or, the reverse, they utilize their bodies as a means to get what they want, whether that’s money, security, or praise and validation.

When I got older and more secure in myself, my sex drive soared! Also I got off all the psych meds that were suppressing it, but a great deal of it was confidence. I would venture to say that I have a higher sex drive than a lot of men out there. (Thank god I have a partner who can match me in this respect!) I strongly suspect that if women were raised in a society where they were TAUGHT to be confident in themselves and comfortable with their bodies, the way I am right now would be the normal rather than the exception, even for younger women.

I remember touching myself when I was 4 or 5. I would put my hand in my underwear when I was put to bed and I’d play with myself. There was nothing sexual about it, I had no concept of sex back then, it just felt good. I’d do it a while then fall asleep (I didn’t orgasm until MUCH later.) I think most kids do this. My middle child used to put her hands in her crotch, under her clothes, until quite late. I had to gently tell her she should only do that at home, as it’s inappropriate to do in public. And to wash her hands before and after touching that body part, so she doesn’t give herself an infection. She’s always had sensory issues (she has EXTREME ADHD, and possibly also very mild autism.) so she uses tactile sensory input to self-soothe, such as a blanket she likes to rub her face on in a repetitive motion, a soft “dolly” with yarn hair that she likes to feel, and she twirls her hair, like me. So I believe the genital touching was just another form of this; a comfort thing.

That festival looks AMAZING I really wish I could go to it but it’s so far there probably wouldn’t be a similar fest over here, Americans are far too repressed for that. We were settled by the Puritans (and some people like to act like we’re STILL Puritans )

Bird, I don’t think taking your daughter to this will harm her at all. Rather the opposite; I think it’ll be beneficial. It’ll teach her that bodies are natural things, nothing to be ashamed of. She may grow up to be a far more confident person for it.

One more point I want to make: Europeans are often far less repressed than us; they take their children to nude beaches in France, and nobody bats an eye!

 

[SpiralusSancti]

And woman being topples at most beaches is ok. Also you really don’t have to go to really deserted and far away places to be ok getting totally naked, in fact as soon you move away from crowded beaches it’s usually totally ok.

 

[Foreigner]

I live in a city that has a large, very accessible clothing optional beach and people go there in droves in the summertime. It is one of the most populated beaches in the summertime in all of Canada. There are literally thousands of nude people, as well as clothed.

The thing people need to realize is, if someone wants to sexualize your body, they will do it no matter if you are fully clothed or nude. There are parts of the world where women are completely covered from head to toe, and their ankle suddenly being exposed causes sexual desire in men. I sexualize men all the time when I check them out, looking at their body parts through their clothing and imagining what they must be like naked. When they actually are naked, there's just more to look at, but I may be at a nude beach and not sexualizing men whatsoever because my mind just isn't there. I usually only sexualize men I'm attracted to and that doesn't change, whether they are fully clothed or not. And nobody is having sex on the beach or doing sexual things. Imagine that.

The human form in of itself is not sexual, unless the person is engaged in a sexualized act. But the body in space is not sexual, it's just a body. It's the gaze of the observer that determines the perspective about the value of that body, whether it's a sexual object, an object of art, an object of biology, etc. Sometimes when I'm at the nude beach, it makes me think about how humans are just animals, animals with a specific culture. In those cases the human body becomes an object of anthropology for me. There are many ways to look at it. And that's the point I'm trying to make here. What it represents changes based on the gaze of the viewer.

There are always children at the nude beach, and they themselves are nude. It's innocent and there is nothing wrong with it. Growing up, I showered with my mom or my dad when I was little. Were they "sexualizing" me? No. We were just cleaning ourselves and they were teaching me how. Plus it saves time to shower with me, than having to draw a bath later and wait for me to separately clean myself.

Consider that in many parts of the world, it's taboo for men to wear tight swim shorts like speedos where you can see their bulge. Or that in places in Asia it's taboo for men to even have their shirts off. Meanwhile in places like Saudi Arabia, women have to wear a full burka to go swimming.

The taboos around the human body are totally arbitrary and cultural. Spending time at a nude beach has shed so much light on my own values and biases about the human body. It also demystifies The body so that it's no longer only being exposed under special circumstances, like art, or porn, or the mass media. It's just nude bodies of people living their daily life while they're at a beach. You see the full range of body types, the hot ones, the unattractive ones, the young ones, the old ones. You see the full spectrum, to the point that everyone just blurs together and nudity is not a special thing anymore. Only the context makes it special, like if you meet someone special that you're attracted to, suddenly that particular nude body is an attractive body. But maybe if you just saw them walking around and didn't know them, they would blend in with all the other naked bodies. It becomes readily apparent that our trivial biases about the body are both personal and also a bunch of bullshit. There's nothing so special about any individual one body that it deserves elevation or shame.

I guess the best way to really bring this topic home, is to think about nude statues like the Statue of David. They are inanimate objects and not even living people, yet people still project all kinds of values onto them. Some people think that children shouldn't even see those statues, while other people consider them art. Meanwhile they are just slabs of rock, technically.

Then you join topics like this one where people are asking if it's appropriate for children to be around nude adults, and it's hard to wrap your mind around, after you've seen a bajillion nude bodies of all types in a public space. I guess it really depends on the context. I wouldn't expose a child to a stripper straddling a pole, but I'd have no problem bringing them to a nude beach.

 

[MuertaMan]

i really have no idea whether or not it is 'harmful' (though i am confused as to how or why it would be harmful at all), but i am not happy that my family and society conditioned me to be so ashamed of my own body. i even find myself hiding my nudity from my kids, not out of a logical choice but out of that shame which was conditioned into me. kinda like how i'm an atheist but still have leftover illogical fears from the religious teachings indoctrination.

You should be "hiding" nudity from your kids, theres a reason people recoil from seeing family members naked, no one wants to see it "shame" or not

 

[mal3volent]

@sunday.bird , I've come to the conclusion that you aren't ever going to get an unbiased opinion on this forum or at least one that is representative of society at large. I for one am pretty biased because of shit that has happened to me. I admit that. I feel as though my opinion is backed by common sense and the experiences of countless others, but no one here can tell you definitively how to feel about this topic because it is so dependent on each individual's past, where they're from, etc.

Not to mention, the demographic here is unquestionably going to skew towards the carefree hippy vibe. As is the case in this thread, there are going to be many stories told of happy memories and positive experiences. Those who have differing thoughts will be inclined to abstain either because they don't want to share their negative experiences or because they don't want to be labeled as uncultured prudes.

(Also keep in mind SLR in particular is full of people enthusiastically discussing "dangerous" sexual fantasies, 12 year old boys having sex with donkeys, infant children masturbating, etc. )

The way I generally approach shit is to think of all the potential risks and all the potential rewards. What's the value of exposing your child to that environment? The things others have mentioned like body positivity and such, are there other ways you could help nurture that other than having them get naked around a huge group of strangers? i think the answer is obviously yes. Why is it such a priority to include them, rather than erring on the side of caution and waiting until they're older and more capable of making informed decisions? Is it that imperative?

 

[MuertaMan]

@sunday.bird
The way I generally approach shit is to think of all the potential risks and all the potential rewards. What's the value of exposing your child to that environment? The things others have mentioned like body positivity and such, are there other ways you could help nurture that other than having them get naked around a huge group of strangers? i think the answer is obviously yes. Why is it such a priority to include them, rather than erring on the side of caution and waiting until they're older and more capable of making informed decisions? Is it that imperative?

Thats a bingo and I view anyone pushing his "naturalist" agenda through a lens of suspicion, Id rather be cautious and wrong than too trusting.

 

[Foreigner]

You should be "hiding" nudity from your kids, theres a reason people recoil from seeing family members naked, no one wants to see it "shame" or not

This is just one cultural attitude. What about fathers and sons who sauna together in Sweden, or go to the baths together in Japan? Mothers and daughters do that too. In some places it's also co-ed. What about public change rooms, should little boys not be allowed in them to get changed for swimming because they might see nude adult men?

I think if you live in a culture that values modesty, then exposing children to parental nudity is abhorrent, while in other cultures it's no big deal. The problem I have with modest cultures is that because they only see nudity when sex happens, they associate all nudity with sex, and therefore any other kind of nudity is shamed as being lewd. And the problem that I have with immodest cultures is that they can be tasteless, classless and crass lol.

Growing up, I partook in a lot of sports with only boys, and eventually other men. I found being exposed to male bodies part of the education of what it means to be male and also helped me mature into my own body. It made me feel normal in my own skin instead of constantly questioning if every little mark or bump on my body was normal.

 

[MuertaMan]

This is just one cultural attitude. What about fathers and sons who sauna together in Sweden, or go to the baths together in Japan? Mothers and daughters do that too. In some places it's also co-ed. What about public change rooms, should little boys not be allowed in them to get changed for swimming because they might see nude adult men?

I think if you live in a culture that values modesty, then exposing children to parental nudity is abhorrent, while in other cultures it's no big deal. The problem I have with modest cultures is that because they only see nudity when sex happens, they associate all nudity with sex, and therefore any other kind of nudity is shamed as being lewd. And the problem that I have with immodest cultures is that they can be tasteless, classless and crass lol.

Growing up, I partook in a lot of sports with only boys, and eventually other men. I found being exposed to male bodies part of the education of what it means to be male and also helped me mature into my own body. It made me feel normal in my own skin instead of constantly questioning if every little mark or bump on my body was normal.

Swedish will also tell you that pickled herring tastes good and the Japanese have used panty machines on the street and fantasize about having sex with octopus so I take what they do as being normal with a grain of salt.

 

[nepalnt21]

fantasizing about having sex with an octopus? i mean, it's weird... but i wouldn't classify it as immoral. i mean, where's the victim? it's also HIGHLY unlikely to culminate in real acts, to my mind... but i have never even thought about or been introduced to the concept, although i HAVE danced with the octopuses in my head while on one very powerful psychedelic amphetamine.

 

[mal3volent]

my father used to walk around the house in his tighty whitey underwear in front of my baby sister all while she grew up. i thought he was kind of a perv at the time, but i guess he was just letting her know the difference between men and women.

your dad walked around in his underwear to teach his daughter "the difference between men and women" ? What the fuck does that mean?

 

[foodcrisis]

your dad walked around in his underwear to teach his daughter "the difference between men and women" ? What the fuck does that mean?

he was wearing his underwear, you could see he had a dick or a buldge in his underwear. you can see women have breasts beneath their shirts. i don't really see a difference.. do you think that is bad?.. i can see how you would think so. i kind of did for a while... people wear speedos at the beach. i don't see it much different than exposing children to nudity. you can tell the difference between a man and a women. idk.

 

[swilow]

Women are taught (by society, even if not by their parents) from an early age that their bodies/sexual feelings are things to be ashamed of. Really wish it wasn’t so; it does so much psychological damage. That’s why so many women have a complicated relationship with sex, and often wind up having unfulfilling sex lives. Or, the reverse, they utilize their bodies as a means to get what they want, whether that’s money, security, or praise and validation.

I sort of worry about what we are doing to young men these days, with concepts such as "toxic masculinity" and the "male gaze". As your own experiences testify to, I think we demonise innate sexual behaviours at our own peril. Not to say that male sexuality doesn't have some dark facets and boys/men certainly need to be taught how to safely and respectfully channel their lustiness, but I don't think the male sex drive is going to wilt or politely recede because of social disapproval. It seems like we didn't learn much from centuries of men policing female sexuality...

 

[Phobos]

And woman being topples at most beaches is ok. Also you really don’t have to go to really deserted and far away places to be ok getting totally naked, in fact as soon you move away from crowded beaches it’s usually totally ok.

I remember seeing topless women at the beach over 20 years ago (South Italy), and as a teenager the only issue I had with it was that it produced unwanted sexual thoughts and erections, as in I knew I wasn't attracted to those women and that they didn't mean to seduce me, it's just that not being used to it and the hormones were too much for me not to have those reactions.
Wasn't tripping too much on it but it was mildly embarassing.

I think it was good in a sense as I realised I needed to learn to control thoughts and erections which took some time but at least I realised that it was up to me to work on myself rather than expecting other people to change their behaviour.

Maybe if I had been exposed to nudity from a young age I wouldn't have blinked for some tits at the beach.

 

[ageingpartyfiend]

You should be "hiding" nudity from your kids

Thats right - but only if you want to teach your kids that their body is something to be ashamed of

We've seen exactly where that shame can lead and it's never to anywhere good.

 

[MuertaMan]

Thats right - but only if you want to teach your kids that their body is something to be ashamed of

We've seen exactly where that shame can lead and it's never to anywhere good.

I fail to see how children being around flopping dicks and pussies out in the open helps THEIR view of their bodies. And for the record most nudists and people preaching the body positive movement would do good with a bit of shame, its always guys with tiny dicks and their land whale wives, its easier to be " body positive" than it is to put down the quarter pounders and get on a treadmill.

 

[SpiralusSancti]

I remember seeing topless women at the beach over 20 years ago (South Italy), and as a teenager the only issue I had with it was that it produced unwanted sexual thoughts and erections, as in I knew I wasn't attracted to those women and that they didn't mean to seduce me, it's just that not being used to it and the hormones were too much for me not to have those reactions.
Wasn't tripping too much on it but it was mildly embarassing.

I think it was good in a sense as I realised I needed to learn to control thoughts and erections which took some time but at least I realised that it was up to me to work on myself rather than expecting other people to change their behaviour.

Maybe if I had been exposed to nudity from a young age I wouldn't have blinked for some tits at the beach.

Still no harm done right? Getting horny as a teen for seeing tits isn’t wrong in any way. I still think what happened to you, and you can bet, to a lot of teens in similar situation (and for sure adults for sure too) is way more harmless to developing mind than sitting at your pc jerking of to some plastic fake ass stupid and stylized “sex”.

Same as here people aren’t so stressed out about so much things surrounding sexuality. And we don’t have stupid things like cops posing like hookers or hookers being bothered by cops, even where it isn’t technically legal. We don’t put sexy teacher to jail (well she’ll get fired probably) cuz she seduced or was seduced by someone 16 year old and such things. A lot more laid back approach yet we don’t have so many transitioning nor almost any people who would even just say it’s ok to have sex with kids or age is a choice or whatever (well NL had some of those who wanted to lower age limit and shit but it ofc didn’t get far, as for most other Europe countries, well such people wouldn’t last very long).