There's no such thing as an unbiased opinion when it comes to stuff like this. We all have different influences.
Thats why after I said unbiased opinion I went on to say an opinion representative of the general public. I agree we all have different influences, i said that myself.
My efforts to examine your logic in the drag story time thread (and I suspect in this thread) just lead to a dead end. You spent 20+ pages avoiding explaining your position. I realize you don't accept that as reality. Maybe it isn't reality, but that's the best I can make out of the fog when I squint. I take this into account - that I could be wrong - with every discussion I enter.
I've made my position crystal clear, and I've explained it over and over again. If you've found yourself at a dead end perhaps it's something to do with your own mental barriers not mine. So you're right, it's not at all reality that I've been avoiding anything. It's good that you take into account that you could be wrong -- because you are. Your willingness to accept being wrong doesn't change the fact that in this case you
are wrong.
Also, literally nobody (including yourself) replied to my repeated comments about women wearing sexualized clothing reading stories to kids. Nobody is outraged about that. Look at how sexualized young female (and male) popstars are. Nobody here seems to care about that.
People do care about that. There has been outrage about it for decades now. This all comes down to bad parental choices. It's up to you to decide what your child is and isn't exposed to, to the best of your ability. These days it's pretty much out of your control what pop stars, movies, shows, etc they see. But taking them to a nudist festival or a drag event IS very much up to you.
A disproportionate amount of hate seems to be aimed specifically at blokes who are probably gay wearing women's clothes.
Here is a wager
@alasdairm likes to propose: find me one example where I've ever expressed hate towards "blokes who are probably gay wearing women's clothes" and I'll leave BL forever. I was progressive before it was cool. I do not give a fuck what consenting adults do to themselves or with each other.
I don't want anyone to tell me how I feel. I moved the thread here from CEPS because I honestly wanted to leave BL after some of the comments directed at me in the drag thread. Moving the thread to P&S helped me remember that this forum doesn't revolve around the dozen or so (largely right wing) regulars that troll CEPS.
I like biased opinions. I don't give a fuck what mainstream society thinks.
So what can be the point of this thread then, other than to reinforce your own beliefs? If you "like biased opinions", don't care what society thinks, and so on, I think all you're doing here is wasting everyone's time. Take your pat on the ass you've received here and keep doing what you're doing. Why are you attempting to debate with me? You have your reassurance now. Echo chamber achieved.
Good. Those are my peeps.
Right on.
You're going to considerable lengths to discredit some of the opinions expressed here, but - with this particular point - I agree and I take that into account... but (at the same time) I'm not going to assume that something is definitely happening if there's no evidence of it.
What you're saying here could be applied to any environment.
Not trying to discredit anything. Just putting shit in context.
The thread is in P&S partly for that reason, but also because nudity isn't inherently sexual and nudism isn't (necessarily) a fetish.
Again, I've never said either of those things.
I don't know where to begin answering that question because the value is so vast, IMO. There is nowhere else in Australia (or the world, probably) that has the same sense of community and openness. Children being raised in the suburbs or - worse - in a city are being raised around miserable people who don't give a fuck about anyone or anything.
I think you're specifically asking about the value of exposing my child to nudism. I'll answer this in a sec.
Yes, that is specifically what I'm asking. If you find openness and community with your fellow nudists, I think that's fantastic. You named the thread "Exposing children to nudism inappropriate/dangerous?" so I figured it was obvious that everything I said was being analyzed through that lens.
I didn't "get my kid naked" around strangers. She had a conversation or two with a nudist that was camped next to us. She wasn't naked. He was.
The only time she was naked for a prolonged period of time (I think) was when she did a Holi colour ceremony and then walked back to the tent nude.
Okay... but you didn't answer the question. If you are a fellow risk/reward enthusiast, you must think there is some kind of benefit to taking your child with you to these events rather than not. So what is it? What can be learned there that hundreds of millions of other children have had to do without?
It's not a priority to include them. I do see a lot of value normalizing the human form from an early age, but it's not particularly important to me. It's not high on my priority list. If the festival stopped being clothing optional, I wouldn't lose any sleep over it and I wouldn't seek out other places that happen to be clothing optional.
So what are we even talking about then? If it isn't a priority that you include them then why would you? It's like you're trying to have it both ways here. There's some kind of majestic, rare, life altering benefit to experiencing this event, but then again, you wouldn't lose any sleep if she missed out on it? I don't think that makes any sense whatsoever.
I will explain the value of nudity now, but - to be fair - can you explain the threat?
Like I said, I'm with her 24 hours a day. So: what is going to happen to her? Like what - specifically - is the threat? I still don't understand.
...
Most adults never shed the body shame stuff in their lives. I don't have the stats on that, but I know it's true because I've known shitloads of people who've gone through the liberating process of being socially naked around others for the first time. There is almost always significant baggage. People are self-conscious. We hate on ourselves in so many different ways, not just about our bodies.
There are people that grow up without this baggage. This helps them sexually later in life and it helps them in terms of general confidence and psychological wellbeing. (Again, I don't have studies or anything to back this up. It just seems obvious to me. But, I am crazy. So who knows?)
With respect, you aren't saying anything new here. You are assuming that most people have this baggage... okay, let's say I agree with you they do-- you still aren't explaining to me "the value of nudity". You can't just say negative body image bad...child at nudist event good... case closed.
What specifically are the threats? Well, I would say just those that naturally spring to mind when one thinks about a child being naked around other naked people. But there I go again just assuming that's a bad thing.
Do whatever you feel is right, I suppose.
