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Enlightenment

“Enlightenment is a paradoxical phenomenon. You need to be committed to become enlightened and to do whatever is necessary to make it happen. But at the same time you can not force enlightenment to happen by sheer will. It is like the situation with happiness: you can not force happiness to happen, but you can create the right circumstances for happiness to happen."

- Swami Dhyan Giten
 
"There are very few human beings who receive the truth, complete and staggering, by instant illumination. Most of them acquire it fragment by fragment, on a small scale, by successive developments, cellularly, like a laborious mosaic."

Anais Nin
 
The ten obstacles which prevent people from attaining the supreme liberation, according to Buddha:

1. The belief in the "ego"
2. Doubt
3. The belief in the efficiency of rites and ceremonies
4. Sensual desires
5. Anger
6. The wish to live in a world less coarse than our own
7. The wish to live in a world more subtle than our own
8. Pride
9. Agitation
10. Ignorance
 
Ninae said:
The ten obstacles which prevent people from attaining the supreme liberation, according to Buddha:

1. The belief in the "ego"
2. Doubt
3. The belief in the efficiency of rites and ceremonies
4. Sensual desires
5. Anger
6. The wish to live in a world less coarse than our own
7. The wish to live in a world more subtle than our own
8. Pride
9. Agitation
10. Ignorance
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I can't comment much on any other points, and many of which I agree with, but doubt? I would equate doubt with critical thinking, and I can't see how critical thinking can be seen as an obstacle or any kind of negative thing. Of course, as long as it's reasonable. Doubting everything is not right either, but blind belief is misleading too. Healthy level of critical thinking is the basis for becoming an independent and not brainwashed adult, or one of the requirements anyway. Every person has to think for themselves, or so I think at least. No concept/idea/belief should be immune to doubt or critical thinking, whatever you want to call it.
 
I think by doubt he means not believing it's possible or you can do it, which might be the main obstacle after all, not that you shouldn't doubt teachers and doctrines, etc.

Another of his quotes was: “There are only two mistakes one can make along the road to truth; not going all the way, and not starting.”

I also think it can relate to a knowing or realisation that lies above cognition (the super conscious mind). The rational mind is below the level of the spirit, not the final end. Not that we should be sub-rational, but you can get above it, although that's something many don't believe.
 
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belligerent drunk said:
I can't comment much on any other points, and many of which I agree with, but doubt? I would equate doubt with critical thinking, and I can't see how critical thinking can be seen as an obstacle or any kind of negative thing. Of course, as long as it's reasonable. Doubting everything is not right either, but blind belief is misleading too. Healthy level of critical thinking is the basis for becoming an independent and not brainwashed adult, or one of the requirements anyway. Every person has to think for themselves, or so I think at least. No concept/idea/belief should be immune to doubt or critical thinking, whatever you want to call it.
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That's not how the Buddha defines doubt, and that's a bad translation anyway. Healthy inquiry is part of Buddhism (I'm not a Buddhist btw). Many people doubt as an ego defense, rather than a genuine inquiry. The ego wants to assert itself at all costs, by sabotaging clear vision of the subtle-mind through various methods. One of those methods is doubting. Because Buddhism furnishes the user with all of the tools and exercises necessary to directly observe and perceive almost all of its precepts, people who doubt without experiencing are usually just foils and are suffering from an attachment and self-created illusion. There's a difference between discerning and doubting. Discernment is earnest in truth seeking, where as doubt is merely denial. You employ different faculties when you discern, rather than reject.
 
Foreigner said:
Discernment is earnest in truth seeking, where as doubt is merely denial.
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Doubt isn't denial, its uncertainty. Its being unsure. Denial itself is very different as certainty is implicit in denial.
 
I think doubt can also be a form of rejection or denial. Like, someone can hold the position there is nothing to yoga or meditation, when there is a lot to indicate there is. The things Buddha talk about aren't necessarily different, even if they are less researched or well-founded, at this point.
 
Ninae said:
I think doubt can also be a form of rejection or denial. Like, someone can hold the position there is nothing to yoga or meditation, when there is a lot to indicate there is.
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No, again, that sounds like certainty and doubt is not certain.

"a feeling of uncertainty or lack of conviction."

For me, doubt is a constant thing and it almost should be for all of us creatures of subjectivity.

Semantics.
 
swilow said:
Doubt isn't denial, its uncertainty. Its being unsure. Denial itself is very different as certainty is implicit in denial.
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It you're attached to your doubts rather than suspending them in order to be offered methods of direct experiencing, then that's denial.

Being unsure means you don't know either way. Again, this could turn to attachment, or you could take your uncertainty with you into a practice.

If being unsure, or doubting, becomes avoidance, then it's attachment.
 
Good post, thanks for clarifying.. For me, doubt is default but I am always trying to learn and gain certainty. I agree, doubt shouldn't be the end of the story. But, imo, overly rapid acceptance/belief has its own dangers.
 
There is also that you have to shift through a lot of dross to get to the gold.

There's no way you're not going to be led down some blind allies, especially when it has been made so confusing for us, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't start or give up.

You do learn over time if you're persistent, you start seeing recurring themes and patterns, and verify things more for yourself.
 
swilow said:
But, imo, overly rapid acceptance/belief has its own dangers.
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Agreed. Anything that asks you to totally release critical thinking should be approached carefully.

As Ninae said... sometimes you have to deal with non-sense to get at the gold. I've experienced that. For some reason, I've never rejected or accepted religion, I dive in and discern what is useful and then bail out. I can always go to the brink of almost becoming a believer and then something in me retracts. I don't know what that is.

To know a system you really have to become the system, or come close to it. It's almost like a magician creating their own illusion, but being able to step out of it when the time is right, without succumbing to their own magic. And if you step out at the right moment you take a lot of wisdom with you, like having earned another way of viewing the One, another piece that completes the picture just that bit more. But this is kind of like spiritual bungee jumping and I know it's not for everyone. Some people like to dip their toes in and leave it at that. Most don't attempt the transition at all.

At least with drugs the experience has a guaranteed ending, which is maybe why some people go that route. There is a measure of control. It's different if you delve into a deep practice of a system and then go through an initiatory process where you temporarily forget what is real and what isn't. It's all on you to find your anchor again, and pull yourself along with the gold back out.
 
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Most all glittery things that are drawing us towards them are traps.

Is Enlightenment something that once you catch it you have it and a billion consolation prizes for life?

We all have moments of Enlightenment. Enlightenment is not static and can not be bottled to share with others or reserved for future use. As soon as you categorize it or make it a thing it turns into mist and heads away.

The only thing you can hold onto as far as enlightenment is that you can choose to be open to its return, by which I mean its return in a novel way with new implications. And it can not be compelled. No forceful act of will ever brings on enlightenment. You can not choose or study up to be enlightened. Sometimes though, a passive openess brings its return.
 
There is an initiation process into higher levels of consciousness and spiritual awareness that has been classically reserved for the few, but right now is more accessible to the many.
 
"The whole of Buddhism is simply this: There is a mental state so happy, so glorious, that all the rest of life is worthless compared to it, a pearl of great price to buy which a wise man willingly sells all that he has; this state can be achieved."
 
It's easier for me to understand the meaning of the word doubt used in this context as cynicism. It's like the voice of the negative inner dialogue that tells me "you will never learn to do this properly, why bother?" when I'm trying to meditate.

IMHO, the problem with LSD is you can't be done before you are ready. I've known many people that ended up suffering from paranoid delusions of grandeur due to acid.
 
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