I dunno, I've done a bit of what I consider inner work and its what has lead me to this outlook. I've tried to make eye contact with god- I've been desperate to, at times- I've seen little that is anything like what people describe. Perhaps I am on a lower level, or perhaps these other people are imagining things. God knows (ha) the human imagination is utterly astounding in what it can conjecture.
Hard to say. We were all ultimately created by God, but the degree to which we are aware of God and work directly with God depends on the lessons and trials we have setup for ourselves, combined with how we choose to exercise our free will. I can't comment on your level, that's beyond my knowing. For me, the inner work involves purifying and healing wounds and false egos, so that I am only living from my inner virtue. That's not enlightenment, but living as one's true self is what God intended for you, and makes life less about suffering -- perhaps.
Yet. We've barely scratched the surface of what DNA is, or what scientific exploration can present us. Spiritual seekers have existed for at least 10,000 years and yet nothing has really been presented that everyone agrees upon, that could be called a singular, objective truth. In terms of explaining the universe and reality, I don't think spirituality has been able to do this... Scientific enquiry has bought about many more truths than the thousands of years of spritual exploration have. But I don't neccesarily want to derail this thread with the science vs spirit debate. The two can coexist, its just that one is actually useful.
You're talking about knowledge and proofs, whereas I'm talking about process. The vast diversity of DNA types among humans facilitates the many different kinds of bodies that spirits can choose / be assigned to. The whole point of entering a physical envelope is to learn about something, based on one's current level. It's necessary for you to forget, in order to learn. It's like saying that everyone has been in grade 6 for 10,000 years, so why have they not yet told us what's at the university post-doctorate level? It's where humanity is at, as a whole, and also where individuals tend to be at. We can at least agree that the overwhelming majority of humans are not enlightened. But what you're asking for is agreement instead of understanding that there are various levels and various workshops. Humanity will never agree, at its current level.
The differences between parent and child has a few explanations, namely that a child is the emergence of a single entity based upon the combined chromosomes of two other individuals and completely unique in that sense. Factor in environment, changing social structures, and there really is no need to introduce reincarnation or past lives or god. None of these things is that useful an explanation IMO as each idea raises billions of questions. I like questions, but I don't neccesarily like recursive dilemma's that always end up being based upon faith.
Your premise is equally based on faith. There's no chromosomal evidence to explain what I mentioned, you're just assuming there is and claiming that science hasn't found it yet. You're inserting doubt based on various plausible ideas, but doubt is not proof. I do agree though, DNA could hypothetically explain part of it, if it ever comes to that.
Using logic takes me somewhere totally different. Logically, one would think that our lifes purpose would be rather clear- it would be illogical to send us into a lesson and yet not tell us what the lesson was or what the end-point was, or even that we were in a lesson.
It would be the purest form of learning. How could you focus on a lesson if you remember your past hundreds of lives?
It may not be totally intentional though. Matter is limited, spirit is not.
I don't have all the answers. I'm sure in the spirit world, things make a lot more sense, in a way that's beyond the ability of an organic brain to understand.
What use is the idea of a purpose or agenda in our lives if we have no way of being certain what it is? If we had a clear purpose, would it not be self-evident? Why is it so obscure? When you say 'lesson', in what sense?
I've already answered this question.
It's obscure for you, it may not be as obscure for others. Ultimately, it has a level of obscurity for everyone, regardless, because that's what the material envelope does. The levels of knowing may depend on one's trials and expiations, and the work they are here to accomplish.
Do you think that situations are engineered for you to learn from, specifically?
No. Every little thing is not pre-determined. There can be accidents, misfortunes, and premature abortions. You are given a task and free will to carry it out or not. You rise up or you descend, but neither state has to be permanent. If the lesson is too hard, you design a different one, with God's help and approval. You are given helpers and clues in your corporeal life to help you stay on track.
The degree of challenge depends on the degree of danger you are also willing to accept. If you're born among murderers then your challenge is to overcome those lower tendencies, and if you do you may advance to higher purity. You could of course be murdered, or become a murderer yourself. Such is free will. Or maybe you're a higher level being who was born among murderers to help them elevate. Hard to say.
There is no pre-destination. You enter this life like you would travel to a foreign land. It has danger but progressive potentials. The risk is always that you will succumb to things that throw you off your path or tempt you to engage in activities you'll have to atone for later. The gain is that you overcome the dangers and evolve on a soul level.
How would situations be presented to you that do not transgress the physical laws that are objectively true in the universe? Or do these lessons manifest by utilising the same laws that govern all phenomena?
They're not presented to you, you choose them. You are attracted to people and things based on sympathy, like attracts like. The spiritual influences guiding your choices and limitations are honed by the spirit. You ARE the spirit moving around Earth, as a physical body. All your faculties, wisdom, and potential are an outpouring of the spirit made physical, through its choices in life... until you grow to the point that you resume where you left off in the previous life.
But its not clear, at all. If something is guiding evolution- what an asshole! :D
We are all evolving towards perfection, on a spiritual level. That involves lessons, trials and expiations which, on the superficial, look unfair, but in the spirit world have a different quality. This life is so temporary and material appearances have no meaning beyond the grave.
Anyway, if you say it is clear- in what sense? There does not seem to be an obvious goal of evolution, besides the propogation of the species. Or if you have read the soul-crushing book by Richard Dawkins 'The Selfish Gene', evolution is solely about the replication of random pieces of protein-based code. I don't like the idea at all, but my likes and dislikes are clearly meaningless to the universe.
Dawkins doesn't resonate with the truth for me. If I was a 100% materialist it would make perfect sense, but I'm not.
If this planet were obliterated, spirits would just choose another planet to be born on. But because the goal is perfection, and God is benevolent, Earth has the potential to become a paradise through our spiritual trials and expiations. Each person that evolves on the spirit level can in turn help humanity.
If you look at humanity now vs. just 1000 years ago, I'd say we've made progress.
I'm going to repost this quote from Schopenhauer and see what you think
Those kinds of mistakes just don't happen, and their appearance is based on lower level understandings. People are always trying to explain their suffering through complex ideologies, when the simplest answer is always right in front of their faces: they chose them and they have the free will to choose to rise above them, through whatever it takes. If they don't, then oh well... more lifetimes to come. If they succumb to their trials because they're too hard, then the next life will be planned differently.
That's one fo the truest things I've read. Rather than being swamped by the bleakness of it, I see it as liberating. Reality is neutral and valueless land upon which we can do what we will- or not. Ultimately, our suffering means nothing to the universe, I wonder if it should therefore mean nothing to ourselves.
Depends on the person, I suppose. To me, suffering has educational value. I don't choose suffering, but when it happens I question its origins, especially if I suspect that chosen suffering is taken place.
Neutral principles have mental usefulness, if you're dealing with mind and need to neutralize discursive thoughts. That's why I love Daoism and Buddhism, they cut right through the bullshit. In doing so, you may realize your inner virtue, and then get on with your real path in life. However, neutral discourses can also be avoidance and escapism from dealing with deeper problems and trials. If you're too busy pretending the universe is all one thing and we're all one, and everything is neutral, then you may be denying your own human level experience -- because not everything is neutral. You have preferences and things which make you feel good, or open your heart, or pursue paths. If that binary didn't exist then material or spiritual evolution would be impossible.
In talking about neutrality, you are being purely intellectual, and not much else. Your physical body will tell you what is true and what is not, regardless of what your monkey mind theorizes about it. Do your path and feel good, resist your path or take the wrong path and you'll suffer. Pretty elementary.
I look forward to that day
Me too!
I hope you don't mind all my questions- they are honest questions- and I ask them because you have clearly spent along time, if not your entire life, pondering these things. I'm always open to being convinced. I have had experiences that I cannot explain too-yet.
I love your questions, and they're good questions. I don't think it's about convincing people, it's just about where people are at. No point in fighting over it. I don't have all the answers. The more I learn the more I realize I'm just an infant.
Whether or not I can explain this succinctly to you has little bearing on either of our life paths, unless of course the exercise points us to some inner truth about ourselves... then that may be purposeful.
If I was to posit a deity or a guide and you were to ask me where it is, I would say that we are living within it. I think there IS something deeper ocurring within our universe that has given rise to the structure we see; the potentiality that the universe's formation has bought about. I wouldn't worship such a thing, I believe it to be utterly indifferent and impersonal, but I do feel in awe of the structure we live within. I also believe that our universe exists within a deeper structure- perhaps it continues infinitely, who knows. A delight to consider though.
It's not hard to experience aspects of monism. We can do it through drugs, meditation, and other practices. This is how we know that God must be a thing. Then we go about the task of defining what God is, our relationship to it, etc. The nature of God is beyond our comprehension because we are imperfect. Our paths of learning are about purification, understanding, and perfecting ourselves. We were created by God and therefore God dwells within us, as us, but we are not God.
What I do know is that God is always benevolent, and through that lens it becomes somewhat clearer why things are the way they are. And I say that as someone who has been through extreme suffering, torture to the point of almost dying. I still believe God is good, and we are in the workshop of perfecting ourselves to the point that we no longer have to be reborn as humans, that we can progress to "post-doctorate level" through other existences, and truly merge with the One.
Our current configuration as material humans makes it very difficult to see through the duality, and that is by design.
