eating hash
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SWIM Had A Dream
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Yes thc needs to become decarboxylated before it will be active orally, this reaction happens readily at around 160f and gives off co2 as a byproduct. Hash if it is black, is likely already decarboxylated. Have fun buckaroo
Helpful link off site
http://michiganmedicalmarijuana.org/topic/35900-the-importance-of-decarboxylation-in-edible-making/
MJ doesn't get enough credit in the PD subthread for its entheogenic qualities, and relatively benign side effects IMO...tho it does get a lot of credit for making me wake up and eat Cheetos in my sleep
Helpful link off site
http://michiganmedicalmarijuana.org/topic/35900-the-importance-of-decarboxylation-in-edible-making/
MJ doesn't get enough credit in the PD subthread for its entheogenic qualities, and relatively benign side effects IMO...tho it does get a lot of credit for making me wake up and eat Cheetos in my sleep
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I don't know for certain but my guess would be that a few things are coming into play as to why you are getting stoned.
the first being that THC is not the only substance in weed that gets you stoned, and i'm not sure at all about this but I think that THC is the only one that is not active when in plant form or needs to be decarboxylated.(Could be completely wrong about that tho...)
The second is how the hash was made. If it is bubble hash then it was made by using cold water to break off the THC and what not from the plant material- again not sure about this but I think this would serve as a decarbing method.
Does anyone know if blasting(making wax) serves to decarb the bud?
the first being that THC is not the only substance in weed that gets you stoned, and i'm not sure at all about this but I think that THC is the only one that is not active when in plant form or needs to be decarboxylated.(Could be completely wrong about that tho...)
The second is how the hash was made. If it is bubble hash then it was made by using cold water to break off the THC and what not from the plant material- again not sure about this but I think this would serve as a decarbing method.
Does anyone know if blasting(making wax) serves to decarb the bud?
SWIM Had A Dream
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While thc will decarb at room temp EVENTUALLY, the reaction occurs more readily with heat. Butane extractions will not decarb thc by itself. Only heat, pressure and time will unless there is a chemical catalyst
Ok so alcohol would be considered a chemcial catalyst i'm guessing since you can use it to activate the thc..? And not butane because butane uses the cold to freeze it off?
SWIM Had A Dream
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Alcohol will not decarb on its own examples of decarboxy"layse" catalysts (enzymes) listed on the wiki below
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decarboxylase#undefined
Eating half of a gram of hash (depending on quality) is aprox 250mg-400mg thc. Most of this thc was prob not active as it sounds you are describing cold water hash. But, depending on age, thc also degrades into CBN which is active orally and quite sedative indeed.
If even 25% of THCa were converted or degraded, you would have a potent medical dose in your belly
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decarboxylase#undefined
Eating half of a gram of hash (depending on quality) is aprox 250mg-400mg thc. Most of this thc was prob not active as it sounds you are describing cold water hash. But, depending on age, thc also degrades into CBN which is active orally and quite sedative indeed.
If even 25% of THCa were converted or degraded, you would have a potent medical dose in your belly
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It needs to be heated to convert. Because our internal temperatures do not get high enough any THCA will not be converted and have the non-psychoactive effect it hash. Unless your bud has been put into the oven to convert the THCa to THC or combusted/vaporized at the right temperature you will not be medicating with THC, but mainly the other alkaloids in the plant.
I am sure a cold soak alcohol tincture would be high in THCa while a higher tempurature soak extract would end up converting some and having a higher THC content. Cooking pot into butter isn't just to release the alkaloids into the soluble fats, but to also convert the THCa to THC without further breaking it down into something like CBN.
Hope this helps
I am sure a cold soak alcohol tincture would be high in THCa while a higher tempurature soak extract would end up converting some and having a higher THC content. Cooking pot into butter isn't just to release the alkaloids into the soluble fats, but to also convert the THCa to THC without further breaking it down into something like CBN.
Hope this helps
This is totally inaccurate. Heat speeds up the process but it occurs naturally over time. When you get high on hash by eating it raw you're getting high on THC that has naturally decarbed. You're also wasting a lot of hash, because you could be decarbing the rest with heat and making it much more bioavailable by cooking it into a fat. Your body only absorbs a fraction of the cannabinoids of raw hash.
DrGreenthumb
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I'm not sure how much truth there is in the 'heating thc' thing, heating it too much could degrade or vaporise it. You don't need much heat, if any at all, it probably happens in the drying process. As long as the plants were mature when harvested that process could have happened on the plant.
THCa seems to possibly have some benefits too, maybe it's easier to absorb orally & active too, I'm not sure if many people know, since its so unstable.
Eating plain raw hash works, tastes good too as long as it's good hash (it's a good way to quickly assess the quality of hash without getting too wreaked too, just put a crumb on your tongue), but it's not as strong, you're wasting some because it's hard to absorb.
Hash yoghurt always worked great for me, I'd just heat some crumbled hash & oil or butter mixture (usually on a spoon), but only use just enough heat for the hash to dissolve, then mix it into a yoghurt, always works. Works a lot better than just eating hash on it's own, or any other kind of edible I've tried, but I think it just makes it easier to absorb because it's mixed with milk & fat, it can be part of an emulsion.
SWIM: expecting all hash to be 50-80% THC is wildly optimistic, that's the best of the best hash, real top quality stuff that melts & boils quickly if it goes near a flame, top of the menu in the best Amsterdam coffeeshop stuff sometimes gets to 50-60%. Extracted oil/wax/jelly, homemade ice-hash or absolutely legendary traditional hash like temple ball or caramellos are the only ones that get above 50%. Most 'good hash' is more like 20-30%. If smoking that amount in one go doesn't floor you, then why would eating it? It's easy to build a tolerance. I ate a gram of some top quality morrocan hash, on my way back from Amsterdam, I'd estimate it was 40%+, it was fresh 'full-melt' quality dry hash, 'Tornado', that worked & got me really nicely stoned, but I'd guess it was only half the effect I'd get from smoking it or putting it in a yoghurt (which would've been far too intense for an enjoyable plane journey).
I guess somebody needs to dissolve some fresh ice hash in cold vodka or something, test it out. It's possible to make good ice hash from fresh wet leaves & you're making the hash in ice water. You'll need to be really careful & quick though.
I just found some data from a proper research chemical supplier (no, you can't get it, proper scientific place), who sell pure THCa, here is their data on it...
THCa seems to possibly have some benefits too, maybe it's easier to absorb orally & active too, I'm not sure if many people know, since its so unstable.
Eating plain raw hash works, tastes good too as long as it's good hash (it's a good way to quickly assess the quality of hash without getting too wreaked too, just put a crumb on your tongue), but it's not as strong, you're wasting some because it's hard to absorb.
Hash yoghurt always worked great for me, I'd just heat some crumbled hash & oil or butter mixture (usually on a spoon), but only use just enough heat for the hash to dissolve, then mix it into a yoghurt, always works. Works a lot better than just eating hash on it's own, or any other kind of edible I've tried, but I think it just makes it easier to absorb because it's mixed with milk & fat, it can be part of an emulsion.
SWIM: expecting all hash to be 50-80% THC is wildly optimistic, that's the best of the best hash, real top quality stuff that melts & boils quickly if it goes near a flame, top of the menu in the best Amsterdam coffeeshop stuff sometimes gets to 50-60%. Extracted oil/wax/jelly, homemade ice-hash or absolutely legendary traditional hash like temple ball or caramellos are the only ones that get above 50%. Most 'good hash' is more like 20-30%. If smoking that amount in one go doesn't floor you, then why would eating it? It's easy to build a tolerance. I ate a gram of some top quality morrocan hash, on my way back from Amsterdam, I'd estimate it was 40%+, it was fresh 'full-melt' quality dry hash, 'Tornado', that worked & got me really nicely stoned, but I'd guess it was only half the effect I'd get from smoking it or putting it in a yoghurt (which would've been far too intense for an enjoyable plane journey).
I guess somebody needs to dissolve some fresh ice hash in cold vodka or something, test it out. It's possible to make good ice hash from fresh wet leaves & you're making the hash in ice water. You'll need to be really careful & quick though.
I just found some data from a proper research chemical supplier (no, you can't get it, proper scientific place), who sell pure THCa, here is their data on it...
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Decarboxylation is a well known and scientifically proven process. If you heat too high or too long you can destroy cannabinoids, sure. So don't heat too high or too long.
DrGreenthumb
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I know, but THCa is really unstable, it's already happened before you get hash in most cases. It's a myth that there's any of it left in any decent hash or even bud that you can buy. You'd need to handle it extremely carefully & have it really fresh off the plant, before it's even dried to have any THCa left in your cannabis without any intentional heating at all & it probably happens on the plant before harvest. It's stable for 4 days at room temperature, in the dark, so myth busted, most hash already wont have THCa without heating it. It might not even be a bad thing if there was some THCa.
A little heat helps the hash dissolve in some butter though, take it away from the heat before the butter starts to boil or burn & then mix it with some dairy product, like a small sweetened yoghurt, eat it on an empty stomach. Don't cook it too long or at too high temperature, or cook it in anything big or it loses effectiveness. It's almost as easy to make a hash yoghurt as just eating plain hash, but it's way more effective.
If you're eating raw hash then make sure you chew it up really good, really grind it with your teeth before swallowing & drink some full cream milk or alcohol with it (small amounts). You have to chew it so much not to waste any that it'd be easier to just mix a yoghurt most of the time. It's probably not going to work well if you try swallowing a block of hard hash like a pill, but eating hash works, no need to get the baking stuff out.
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DrGreenthumb
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Yes, I'm saying decarbing hash already happened before you think about cooking it, 99% of the time. Even most dried bud is going to be fully decarbed. It'd need to be frozen, fresh off the plant & in the dark, a plant that was harvested exactly on the right day, kept cool, etc, for there to be much THCa. You'd need to be so careful it's not realistic to expect THCa in any cannabis, unless it was some kind of lab experiment purposely set out to get it. Scientists find storing & transporting the pure chemical difficult without it degrading to THC. I'm really not sure that anybody knows if it's psychoactive or not either, it might be better than THC for all we know.
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Are you aware your opinion is counter to established science? That people have taken cured weed and determined the quantities of THCA and THC before and after decarb? When you're saying something contrary to prevailing opinion I'd expect some proof. I personally have a lot of experience with decarbing, having experimented with different temperatures and times. I can say from experience it makes a huge difference.
Regardless of decarbing, the human body won't absorb straight hash well at all. Drinking or eating a fat with it helps but is still wasteful. Cooking weed into a fat (or allowing it to sit in a fat for a long time) increases bioavailability dramatically. Unless you're swimming in hash and can't be bothered why would you intentionally waste it?
Lol what? It's well known it's not psychoactive.
Look, this isn't some mysterious shit. It's very well understood by science and the information isn't hard to find. If you're going to be making these kinds of claims you might want to read up on it.
Regardless of decarbing, the human body won't absorb straight hash well at all. Drinking or eating a fat with it helps but is still wasteful. Cooking weed into a fat (or allowing it to sit in a fat for a long time) increases bioavailability dramatically. Unless you're swimming in hash and can't be bothered why would you intentionally waste it?
Lol what? It's well known it's not psychoactive.
Look, this isn't some mysterious shit. It's very well understood by science and the information isn't hard to find. If you're going to be making these kinds of claims you might want to read up on it.
DrGreenthumb
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What quantities, where? All I've seen was an often repeated internet myth with very little science behind it, nobody ever gives sources. It goes totally against my experience of 20 years daily cannabis abuse & many other people who successfully got 'stoned as fuck' from eating hash too.
It's really not mysterious, eat hash & you get high, cooking it is unnecessary. Dissolving it in oil & mixing it with something fairly small, doing it quickly without much heat works best, it aids digestion, but you still get pretty high without doing that. It vaporises at normal oven temperatures. Trust me, I've got 20 years experience. It's possible to be totally wreaked out of your mind for a whole day off a little yoghurt with 1g of really good hash, or 2g of not so good hash, or 3.5g of pretty average hash will turn hardened smokers green & make them ill for hours (these are doses for people with a tolerance, used to smoking twice that in a day, and just basic commercial import hash, polm or afghan). It's just as strong as smoking it if you do it right, maybe stronger & it lasts longer, but the effects can be more dreamy & sedating. If you cook it in something too hot or for too long you will lose all your thc. If it's something too big or if you have a full stomach then it'll dilute it. Small yoghurts with hash just diluted in a small spoon of cooking oil or butter are the best way to get really high, without alcohol, it doesn't even matter if there are a few small bits left undissolved. Cooking it too hot or too long & losing your stuff is a bigger danger than not cooking it. Just a few seconds with a lighter under a spoon is all that's needed & don't get the lighter too close or you'll boil the thc off.
Dissolving it in strong alcohol will work too, but it's strong enough without a load of booze.
There's one study from 2005? I knew more about eating hash 10 years before that & the internet is often wrong.
http://www.lycaeum.org/nepenthes/Ludlow/THE/index.html
Eat a gram or two of good hash & come back a couple of hours later to tell me I'm right, if you still know what a computer is at that stage, it works. Half a gram will get most people 'stoned like fuck' without any cooking at all, stoned like you'd just smoked it all as fast as you could, only more sedating & long lasting.
It's really not mysterious, eat hash & you get high, cooking it is unnecessary. Dissolving it in oil & mixing it with something fairly small, doing it quickly without much heat works best, it aids digestion, but you still get pretty high without doing that. It vaporises at normal oven temperatures. Trust me, I've got 20 years experience. It's possible to be totally wreaked out of your mind for a whole day off a little yoghurt with 1g of really good hash, or 2g of not so good hash, or 3.5g of pretty average hash will turn hardened smokers green & make them ill for hours (these are doses for people with a tolerance, used to smoking twice that in a day, and just basic commercial import hash, polm or afghan). It's just as strong as smoking it if you do it right, maybe stronger & it lasts longer, but the effects can be more dreamy & sedating. If you cook it in something too hot or for too long you will lose all your thc. If it's something too big or if you have a full stomach then it'll dilute it. Small yoghurts with hash just diluted in a small spoon of cooking oil or butter are the best way to get really high, without alcohol, it doesn't even matter if there are a few small bits left undissolved. Cooking it too hot or too long & losing your stuff is a bigger danger than not cooking it. Just a few seconds with a lighter under a spoon is all that's needed & don't get the lighter too close or you'll boil the thc off.
Dissolving it in strong alcohol will work too, but it's strong enough without a load of booze.
There's one study from 2005? I knew more about eating hash 10 years before that & the internet is often wrong.
http://www.lycaeum.org/nepenthes/Ludlow/THE/index.html
Eat a gram or two of good hash & come back a couple of hours later to tell me I'm right, if you still know what a computer is at that stage, it works. Half a gram will get most people 'stoned like fuck' without any cooking at all, stoned like you'd just smoked it all as fast as you could, only more sedating & long lasting.
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w01fg4ng
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^^ You really should read the rest of your sources and attempt to understand them. You are misunderstanding the fact that Δ9-THCA is highly unstable ONLY when it is synthesized alone. When it is on the plant it is "very stable".
"Δ9-THCA is highly unstable, decarboxylating readily to form Δ9-THC in air at room temperature. However, in vivo, Δ9-THCA is very stable. In fresh plant material, about 90% of the Δ9-THC obtained from Cannabis sativa is available as Δ9-THCA (Jung et al., 2009)."
Another thing you are probably not understanding is that many of the processes (including The Hashish Eater) in making hash involve some sort of heating before it ever gets in your hands. No, it's not completely necessary, but it will be weak if you don't do it.
Have you ever made green dragon (everclear+bud) without "decarbing"? It SUCKS!
"Δ9-THCA is highly unstable, decarboxylating readily to form Δ9-THC in air at room temperature. However, in vivo, Δ9-THCA is very stable. In fresh plant material, about 90% of the Δ9-THC obtained from Cannabis sativa is available as Δ9-THCA (Jung et al., 2009)."
Another thing you are probably not understanding is that many of the processes (including The Hashish Eater) in making hash involve some sort of heating before it ever gets in your hands. No, it's not completely necessary, but it will be weak if you don't do it.
Have you ever made green dragon (everclear+bud) without "decarbing"? It SUCKS!