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☛ Official ☚ [DXM Subthread] Pure Powder / DXM HBr

Hmmmm. So you want to increase it's bioavailability for a more marketable drug given the expenditure to selling cost.

Buddy, I thought of that first, fool! But no, I do not know any methods to increase it's bioavailability.

Oh, this reminds me. If you sell pure DXM hbr powder to people in capsule form, can you be legally in trouble for this?
 
Why do we think DXM HBr has low bioavailability, and that this low bioavailability is because of its formulation? If DXM has low bioavailability, I would have thought this was because of its high CYP2D6 affinity.
 
Bliz0r, I'm not sure whether bioavailable was the right word. Basically, I was looking for advice on what I can do to dissolve DXM and increasing the speed which it passes into my bloodstream and decrease these effects:

* slow absorption in the GI tract, reducing the "peak" and increasing
the DXM/DXO ratio, with subsequent enhanced activity at sigma
receptors and dysphoria
* delayed onset time, leading some people to redose prematurely (and
overdose)
* prolonged periods of intoxication and hangovers
* potentially increased risk of neurotoxicity

I have tried bombing the DXM (wrapping up the powder in a rolling paper than swallowing it) a few times. The DXM will still be hitting me after T+4:00. What I want is a peak!

Taking the advice from the PEG article, I've done a little experiment as I could not find these 'liquid caps' in a few pharmacies in the UK. Here is my experiment:

1. Mix 400mg of DXM HBr with PEG-6 containing toothpaste. Mix it all up til there is no DXM HBr left.
2. Put all of this toothpaste mix into half a cup of water.
3. This is shorter than I thought....Drink!

I haven't got round to drinking it yet, I'll let you know how it goes.

Can anyone verify my science?
 
Sounds dubious to me... I wouldn't have though that they'd be enough PEG in the toothpaste (though I'm probably wrong)

One thing that I am quite positive is wrong is "slow absorption in the GI tract [which increases] the DXM/DXO ratio, with subsequent enhanced activity at sigma
receptors and dysphoria." Slower absorption should increase that ratio, which is what you want, as DXM is the more sigma specific ligand, while DXO is more NMDA specific.

To increase absorption rate, you could try having with some fats and with carbonated beverages.
 
I doubt solubilizing it is the problem. Most likely slow/poor oral absorption and low bioavailability has to do with DXM's pKa being somewhere around 9.
 
My brains not working... if it's got a pKa of 9, that means that it becomes neutral at the slightly alkaline pH of 9?
 
A pKa of 9 means that at pH 9 it exists in a 1:1 ratio of ionized to unionized species.
 
Yeah, that's what I though... so like MDMA, and Meth, their pKa's are like 9.8-10... and they're absorbed fine... and for them, only like, one atom in a thousand should be unionic, vs one in 100 for DXM... right?
 
Yup, if those pKa's are correct then there should be an order of magnitude or two of difference in the ratios of species between amphetamine, mdma, etc. and DXM. However amphetamines tend to have an order of magnitude or two smaller dosage compared to DXM. Not to mention I'm sure they have much higher binding affinities, and most likely some better membrane permeability.

Still my previous statement was too much of a generalization, as I'm sure that other factors such as high enzyme affinity do play a role as well. However, I'm quite confident that pKa also plays an integral role as well.
 
*Shrug* I don't really know too much about pharmacokinetics.

I would have thought Log Ps were more important here... I'm sure there should be some calculation which takes into account the Log Ps of the acidic and basic forms, and the ratio of the two due to the difference between pKa and pH, and caclculates the average logP...
 
Further experiments with other people confirmed that DXM HBr is not readily absorbed by the GI tract.

I've made a preparation that makes DXM highly bioavailable with a reliable and consistent (fast) onset:

Mix 25 - 50ml of hard alcohol (it's going to taste putrid no matter what), a "bump" of PEG-6000 (about 20-30mg I guess, I'll weigh it next time) with your desired dose of DXM HBr.

It will taste awful, I warn you. Don't use too much PEG, you will vomit, a lot.

Next time I'll try making a gel with water + PEG and dissolving the DXM into that then packing it into gel caps. Anything to avoid the awful taste of PEG and DXM...

[Looking back on my toothpaste idea makes me cringe. How could I have been so thoughtless?]
 
EpicureanDream said:
Further experiments with other people confirmed that DXM HBr is not readily absorbed by the GI tract.

I've made a preparation that makes DXM highly bioavailable with a reliable and consistent (fast) onset:

Mix 25 - 50ml of hard alcohol (it's going to taste putrid no matter what), a "bump" of PEG-6000 (about 20-30mg I guess, I'll weigh it next time) with your desired dose of DXM HBr.

It will taste awful, I warn you. Don't use too much PEG, you will vomit, a lot.

Next time I'll try making a gel with water + PEG and dissolving the DXM into that then packing it into gel caps. Anything to avoid the awful taste of PEG and DXM...

[Looking back on my toothpaste idea makes me cringe. How could I have been so thoughtless?]
Click to expand...

I've read it's PEG-400 not 6,000 :)
 
"Grapefruit juice increased the bioavailability and absorption, in addition to the excretion of dextromethorphan and its metabolites. Eleven healthy volunteers took dextromethorphan hydrobromide (Balminil DM(R)) 30 mg followed by 200 mL of water on days 1, 3 and 5, grapefruit juice (Minute Maid 100% pure frozen concentrated in one part diluted with three parts of water) on day 2, and seville orange juice on day 4. Spot urine sample were obtained before and after dextromethorphan administration. Investigators examined the effect of grapefruit juice on the activities of cytochrome P450 2D6 (CYP2D6), CYP3A, and P-glycoprotein and the resulting effect on the pharmacokinetics of dextromethorphan. Statistical significance was defined as P < 0.05. The 8-hour post dextromethorphan urine sample shows dextromethorphan bioavailability (0.54 with grapefruit juice versus 0.10 with water) and total percent excreted ( 14.1 +/- 6.3 with grapefruit juice versus 4.04 +/- 5.0 with water) increased significantly with the administration of grapefruit juice. Differences in dextromethorphan excretion were determined to be dependent on the individual's metabolizing phenotype. Two subjects reported drowsiness with the increased dextromethorphan exposure (Di Marco et al, 2002)."

grapefruit juice, here i come
 
[DXM Subthread] Pure Powder / DXM Hbr

well I just wanted to warn people about pure dxm hbr powder: it sucks, don't buy any. I mean I love dxm OTC pills (great high !!!) but pure powder has a very different effect, nasty and unpleasant
(probably the oils in otc pills and syrup do influence the absorption rate , changing the trip ina good way).
If I find a way to make the pure powder pleasant I let you know, but honestly I doubt it (makes me more deliriant than dissociated, and there's almost no ophoria, when there's a wonderful ophoria and dissociative effect with otc pills)
Also I heard there were several overdoses with internet supplied pure DXM HBr powder (maybe the reason it's so unpleasant is just that internet supplied dxm is bad quality)
 
wow, I always thought the powder would make a better, cleaner trip without all the thickening agents in syrups/pills.
 
you have to take it with peg-400 aka 2 gelcaps of robogels


seriously people research :|
 
Umm I dont think pure dxm is nasty, toxic, deliraint. I will say the duration is shorter but the high is more intense and euphoric. Maybe some people got toxic impure dxm or more likely they acted irresponsibly and took way to much. I not sure why your reacting this to it. It might be u got a bad source or it just was a bad time maybe cause it came on to fast for your liking. Just a thought but your report is interesting none the less. If you dont mind try it again and see what happens. Maybe if your ready for the rush and are in a good mood it might go better. Again just a thought but please report more details on the first experience if nothing else.
 
I tried OTC gellcaps at 900mg almost 6 times and it was always a wonderful trip (and absolutely NO side effects).
I tried pure powder at 400mg the first time, and 600mg the second time and each time I had the same deliriant/toxic side effects...and I have to say that I took it with 2 tablespoons of otc dxm cough syrup (containing PEG) to help with absorption but it didn't change anything to the nasty effects.
I got this powder from a now closed well known internet supplier (directly chemically named if you get what I mean) and I have a very bad feeling about it's toxicity, so if you have some dxm from this batch, be careful.
 
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I agree, pure powder does suck. I had a bunch of it once and all the trips sucked in comparison to RoboMaxCough, which happens to be the BEST way to take DXM...

Powder always made me more nauseous, I dunno the trips just sucked in comparison. Just more "fucked up" feeling and less trippy dissociativeness.

Subdefy is, I'm sure, right about the PEG thing. Might as well just get robomaxcough it's already in there. Tastes yummy too.
 
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