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Does anyone else support animal research?

i mean, do you really think that by pumping a room full of rats with chemicals you are getting any healthier? are your children better off??
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Yes, I know it has helped...the drugs for cancer cures, the vaccines we have to prevent many diseases, these were all helped by animal research.
 
It depends on the animal IMHO.... wait, hear me out. I would turn a blind eye to rats because they have been repsonsible for millions of human deaths over the centuries and they are not in danger of becoming extinct (I admit I'm not terribly happy with the theory there but anyway...). Monkeys, on the other hand.... If they are treated humanely, and there is no alternative, and the research results in saving lives, maybe. Whatever the context it should not involve profit, and it should not be normalised as much as it is. What I mean by normalised is that it is accepted and taken for granted that it is our right. It should remain a somewhat hot potato, and should eventually become obsolete (that might be a pipe dream).
 
justsomeguy said:
is the objectification, confinement, subjegation, and destruction of animals ethical?
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Do you eat meat or dairy products?
 
justsomeguy, although I may not agree with all your viewpoints I do appreciate your point of view. It is the animal activists that have driven the scientific community towards more humane practices. The activists seem to have separated into two different groups: animal rights advocates and animal welfare advocates. Animal rights advocates believe that animals should never be used for any human advancement in any way shape or form. Animal rights activists tend to be more extreme. These are usually the PETA people that claim that the current chicken industry is just as bad as the holocaust (I swear, this IS what they are claiming).

Animal welfare advocates realize that there is a necessity to using animals in research but they tend to be against things like cosmetic testing. They strive to make the animal welfare aspect their main goal.

Neural_Shock, I thought you brought up a great point by mentioning profit. In a perfect world, we would not be doing science for profit but instead doing it for mankind. Unfortunately, profit drives everything. I see profit as a double edged sword because the need to put a product into market drives the research forward at breakneck speeds which means greater advancement to science and patients on the receiving end.

On the other hand, profit can also drive scientists to use less humane means to cut costs (like crowding animals in cages, etc). Luckily, people like myself and fizzygirl take into account the animal's welfare.
 
If not for monkey vivisections you or your children might have polio right now... we don't live in an ideal world, sometimes things have to be done that are less than ideal or pleasant. If it means sacrificing some monkeys or rats so that potentially millions can live healthier lives, then its worth it.
 
yes i eat meat!!

//gets embarrased

but, i didn't eat any today.

**jerry blunted**

how do we explain this to the monkeys?

is it simply in the fact that we can't talk to monkeys, and they can't talk to us, that we can sacrifice them for polio destruction and saving human lives?
 
is it simply in the fact that we can't talk to monkeys, and they can't talk to us, that we can sacrifice them for polio destruction and saving human lives?
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Uh, I'd say it's more the fact that they're monkeys, not people.

'Common-sense' morality says that animals are less deserving of rights or protection than people. If you want to argue that they're equivalent -- that we ought to extend the same rights to them as to people, or that we should not kill any animals even if it will save human lives -- then it would seem the burden is upon you to argue why we should treat them the same.


One thing many people don't realize is how few experiments are done on animals like monkeys now. It's incredibly difficult to get approval to do primate research, not to mention very expensive; and so researchers only use them when absolutely necessary. eg, in Britain:

84% of animal research used rats or mice
7% - fish
5% - birds
less than 1% - dogs, cats, horses, monkeys combined


If you want to reduce animal suffering, I'd say there are far better places to start. I don't know how many rats and mice are killed by poison, traps, etc, compared to those used in research, but I suspect the numbers are comparable -- and those deaths are probably significantly more unpleasant than being knocked by a shot of ketamine+xylazine, like the ones I've seen in neuro labs were.

Vegetarianism seems like a much more logical place to start -- if it's wrong to kill a bunch of rats in the course of lifesaving medical research, certainly it's far worse to kill a ton of cows and chickens just cause you like the way they taste.
 
Those pics pretty much said it all.
I support some testing in circumstances where the tests are not cruel.
And I NEVER, EVER support testing of animals for cosmetic purposes.
I mean, obviously, testing new drugs that could possibly be a cure for cancer is not the same as testing a new brand of mascara. Sometimes the cosmetic testing is the most cruel of them all.
I think humans should be tested on instead of animals, too.
But no, that would be "cruel" right?
*sigh*

P.S. My name is Andi, not Deja. :)
 
Those pictures looked pretty old to me, you'd be hard pressed to find a lab like that nowadays, there are VERY strict guidelines and an enforcement agency to keep it clean, so to speak.

Humans ARE experimented on, but they are a later stage if the animal trials are successful.

I would love to be able to explain to the chimpanzees why we had to sacrifice them, but obviously that is impossible. Would you prefer we still had polio, it is a pretty nasty disease? If you or someone you loved had it I'm sure you'd be alright with the monkey sacrifice, not because it is something we should be happy about or do without thought, but because it was necessary and ultimately productive.

As far as cosmetics testing, I don't think anyone here said they support it and I'd be willing to bet that applies to most of the scientific community as well.
 
yes, i've decided its difficult to argue for animal testing prohibition when topics are brought up like cancer research polio, and other allopathic disease prevention.

:)
 
Justsomeguy- I really appreciate your aversion to doing anything to cause harm to animals. I completely understand why you don't like the idea, and I really don't either, it's just that we don't have anything better at this point.

I sympathize greatly with animal rights activists even when I don't agree with all their positions. I do eat meat, but I consider it a sacrifice the animal made to me, and I do my best to be mindful of the fact that my very existence imperils the existence of other beings. That is why I feel obligated to try and do some good with my life rather than just focus on my own goals.

As time goes on I believe we'll come to see animals as more like us than different, there are some very major differences between humans and animals, but every year it seems like they are shrinking as we come to understand more and more about the world.

Still, the for the benefit of the many some sacrifices must be made. I think it is up to us to be as mindful as possible about when and why these sacrifices are made, and to honor and respect those animals who do suffer and die for our continued existence and health.
 
(this is justsomeguy)

how similar are these statements: "either we experiement on all these animals over here, or you got polio"

and

"either we use all these black slaves to work our cotton fields, or you go without clothing"
 
^ real

And um..no...if a family member got Polio, I would still not be supportive of cruel animal research.
I would be sad that they got sick. Period.
 
(this is justsomeguy)

how similar are these statements: "either we experiement on all these animals over here, or you got polio"

and

"either we use all these black slaves to work our cotton fields, or you go without clothing"
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Only grammatically. Argument by word-substitution generally doesn't work very well. eg, consider:

"Stem cell research using aborted embryos should be legal, or we won't be able to cure Parkinson's or MS."

"Parents should be able to sell their childrens' organs, or we won't have enough transplant donors."
 
The difference with the slavery issue is that you don't HAVE to use slaves to pick cotton. However, you HAVE to use living organisms to experiment on for medical science. It is a pretty nasty but unfortunately unavoidable situation.

The alternatives (computer modelling, in vitro, etc.) just don't cut it. Besides I didn't say you specifically WOULD get polio, only that millions of other people definitely would. It used to be a real serious disease, now it is nonexistent. I'm sure if you got out a medical textbook there would be dozens of similar circumstances.

What do you think we should do instead of animal research? If there was a viable option I would agree with it. But to the best of my knowledge there isn't one.
 
^So we stopped one disease. Others will always come along.
I watched my Grandmother die of cancer and I still don't support animal research. I mean, it isn't on the top of my list of things to fight or anything, but don't try and tell me that I would support it if I new it would save people. I think people have done enough harm to this planet (more than any animal) and have NO right to do that to other creatures that live here. We have way to big of an ego as a whole human race, and we think that we own this planet. I disagree. And I don't care if there is no other option. We should do what we can without being cruel. And if we can't do it without being cruel, oh well.
 
Mynameisnotdeja- Well, you can think that if you want, but most people would choose the path that leaves them with medicine, and for good reason.

And its not just one disease, its almost ALL the diseases we have treatments for.
 
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