doctor wants to put me on some sort of ssri!!

[tylerwashere]

I was diagnosed with secondary bi-polar disorder and manic depression a few months ago. I was prescribed paxil and it really helped me alot, i would almost say "life changing". He started me on 20mg and after 3 weeks my whole outlook changed. but then after about a month the effects started to wear off. Then I changed doctors (for insurance reasons) and he has put me on zoloft and clonazepam ) love benzos) for my anxiety attacks. Hopefully it works well too.

SSRIs dont work for everyone, doctors just prescribe it for everything. I recommend getting a second opinion before starting with it. It isnt something you'll know if it works right away, it takes awhile. not to be taken too lightly...

 

[Mercury (Hg)]

So my nurse practicioner says that I may benefit fit from some sort of SSRI. For anxietyand just to generally improve my life outlook.

she is giving me a choice of celexa, prozac, or paxil.

How is this going to effect my psychedelic explorations. I can pretty much just forget about the 2c's, mdma, and methylone huh?

Thet tryptamines should still work though right? Anyone with expierence please chime in.

They do not alter your outlook on life. They just make you indifferent to it.

I might still have depressed-like thoughts, but there's none of the negative emotions or feelings usually associated with it. Makes me feel kind of empty though.

Avoid them, unless you feel it's absolutely necessary. And I mean absolutely.

 

[Mercury (Hg)]

There's no way to prove it, but I have a sneaking suspicion that many people treated with SSRIs experience an improvement in their depressive symptoms despite the treatment rather than because of it.

Pure speculation based on nothing. False.

I'm also sure there are many people who are helped by them; but not enough to warrant such widespread use in clinical practice. Even judging by the data published by their manufacturers, they are only incidentally more effective than placebo at relieving symptoms of depression.

False. Given a non-incidental depression, S_RI's are a godsend.

People don't usually develop symptoms of depression randomly without cause.

That's what S_RIs are for. The keyword is "usually."

Usually there are a multitude of lifestyle and environmental factors contributing to their problem. Most people can be cured by consulting a nutritionist, exercising, meditating, and abstaining from habits like smoking and drug use.

True.

Even if you're being treated clinically for depression with SSRIs, its still highly advisable to work hard at removing the root cause of your symptoms through these other avenues as well. To neglect doing so would be foolish.

True.

There aren't any magic pills out there: as human beings we're clever enough to affect consistent non-lethal changes in our biochemistry through the use of selective agents, and in certain specific contexts the effects of this biochemical perturbation can be seen as favorable. Don't buy into the pharm company marketing bullshit about "disorders" and cures and all that crap. There isn't a single disorder in the Diagnostic & Statistical Manual with a demonstrated, known cause; in fact, the disorders are literally voted into existence by majority consensus rather than by clinical observation.

Partially inaccurate, especially the last statement. Psychology is still a relatively new field. I don't agree with much of it (I've taken a course in college), but it is a start.

Clinical psychiatry is no more scientific than throwing darts. Its a carefully orchestrated smoke-and-mirrors act to deceive an unhappy and naive population. Psychiatry is fundamentally the practice of applying force and coercion to change human behavior-- its self-appointed status as "medicine" is nothing more than marketing and jive.

Partially inaccurate. Calling it nothing more than "marketing and jive" is delusional and paranoid.

I didn't mean to go off on a rant here, my main message is just to take responsibility for your own health and put in effort to recover balance in your life. Doctors can be helpful sometimes; but like any group claiming to hold the cure for the pains inherent to the human condition, they should be treated with a healthy dose of skepticism and analysis.

True.

 

[tylerwashere]

Clinical psychiatry is no more scientific than throwing darts. Its a carefully orchestrated smoke-and-mirrors act to deceive an unhappy and naive population. Psychiatry is fundamentally the practice of applying force and coercion to change human behavior-- its self-appointed status as "medicine" is nothing more than marketing and jive.

I agree with a few things you said there, but this part sounds a little like a conspiracy theory to me. My anxiety and depression were becoming unbearable. After taking Paxil it really started to help me alot. It changed my lifestyle for sure in a positive way.
If you don't mind me asking have you ever had any experience with psychological problems of any kind? Depression for example?

 

[Roger&Me]

Pure speculation based on nothing. False.

I prefaced the statement by stating that there is absolutely no way to prove such a notion, its neither true nor false. Simply my opinion.

alse. Given a non-incidental depression, S_RI's are a godsend.

Like I stated, I know they are a godsend for some people. They can be a valuable tool to have in the toolbox to use when necessary, but the prescribing methods employed by the psychiatric profession regarding SSRIs are absurd. They prescribe them readily to a much larger portion of the population than requires them, and in most instances they are now being prescribed off-label for conditions that they haven't been proven effective in treating.

That's what S_RIs are for. The keyword is "usually."

Agreed completely. My point is that greater measures should be taken to expose the root cause of a patient's depression before resorting to SSRIs, and this is not common practice within the psychiatric profession. Common practice is to resort to SSRI treatment as the primary treatment option.

Partially inaccurate, especially the last statement. Psychology is still a relatively new field. I don't agree with much of it (I've taken a course in college), but it is a start.

I don't really know how to respond to that statement other than to suggest you research the APA's process for revision of the DSM. They plainly state that the disorders in the DSM are included based upon peer consensus. You can call it whatever you like, but the process bears no relation to medical science. Psychiatry involves the categorization of symptoms only, and does not rely on the observation of actual physical pathology. There has never been a conclusive study proving the suggested biochemical mechanism for any disorder listed in the DSM.

Calling it nothing more than "marketing and jive" is delusional and paranoid.

Have you ever studied the history of psychiatry?

It is a profession that has consistently violated human rights since its inception. Benjamin Rush, the man whose silhouette graces the official seal of the APA wrote prolifically about methods of systematic torture to be applied to mental patients. These methods included dunking the "patient"'s head in a tub of ice-water while simultaneously firing cannons in close proximity.

The concept of "mental health" as its commonly understood today, is a fairly recent development. It was essentially a business decision; pathologizing a significant portion of the population is much more lucrative than dealing exclusively with seriously troubled individuals who genuinely require treatment.

My anxiety and depression were becoming unbearable. After taking Paxil it really started to help me alot. It changed my lifestyle for sure in a positive way.

I'm glad you found the treatments effective.

I want to make it clear that I'm not judging anyone's choices here. I'm providing a generalized critique of a very powerful and lucrative industry that I believe should be more closely scrutinized.

I have never denied the necessity of psychiatry, I've merely suggested that certain deeply-ingrained mindsets within the profession are potentially dangerous and the general population should demand a greater degree of accountability for psychiatric negligence.

If you don't mind me asking have you ever had any experience with psychological problems of any kind? Depression for example?

Since the age of 11, I have been diagnosed with 4 separate psychiatric disorders. I have been under the care of 4 different psychiatrists. My last psychiatric appointment was on the 20th of February.

Additionally, I've been hospitalized (read:incarcerated) in a psychiatric hospital against my will. When I was admitted to the ward, I was completely honest and informed them I had consumed a large amount of xanax and alcohol within the past few hours (which was the cause of my lunatic behavior). They then proceeded to forcibly administer me sizable doses of librium and seroquel: clearly an extremely dangerous combination that could have killed me! When I attempted to explain the danger of the combination, I was told that if I continued to "deny treatment" I would be restrained and administered the medications via injection. Luckily I didn't die, but my respiration became so shallow that I had to be transported on a stretcher to another wing of the facility for observation and administered both oxygen and an IV for hydration.

Despite regaining complete lucidity well within the first 24 hour period of hospitalization (shortly after their murderous drug cocktail wore off, incidentally 8)), I was kept in the ward for almost 6 days, and in those 6 days I spent a grand total of about 20 minutes in consultation with a doctor. I was denied visitation from my family and threatened with solitary confinement and forced drugging when I became distressed by the overtly inhumane treatment. Despite my initial near-fatal reaction, they continued to administer me seroquel and librium. The nurses were rude, unhelpful, and uncommunicative. I conversed with the doctors in a lucid and congenial manner, clearly demonstrated myself to be a sane and conscientious individual-- and yet was still held against my will for 6 days, without even being informed of an official diagnosis.

The story only gets worse when my family and I consulted attorneys regarding taking legal action against the facility and were informed that there was very little possible legal recourse in these types of matters, especially in the state where I reside.

I didn't mean to go off on all that, but perhaps it will provide some context as to why I feel the way I do about the psychiatric profession. It does harm people, I have both experienced it first hand and seen it happen to others. My only advice is to give careful consideration to the matter before seeking psychiatric treatment, because psychiatric diagnosis is one of the few things in our society that can totally strip you of basically all your legal rights.

 

[Roger&Me]

this part sounds a little like a conspiracy theory to me.

Sorry for spewing TLDR everywhere, but I really need to emphasize that I'm no conspiracy theorist.

There aren't any conspiracies in the psychiatric community, as they have no reason to conspire. They don't keep any secrets about their flawed methods: all of my beliefs on the matter were formed as a result of direct observation and information obtained from psychiatrists themselves.

Additionally, I'm a scientist-- or at least I will be one soon when I graduate and hopefully go on to do some post-graduate work-- and thus I'm intimately familiar with the scientific methodology, and the common trait that the sciences all share is conspicuously lacking in psychiatry: its hypotheses are untestable, and they consistently fail to produce repeatable results of any kind.

That doesn't qualify as science, it cannot qualify as science. It lacks the most fundamental property of science! Thus you can understand how I become easily perturbed by the status it enjoys within society as legitimate medical science. At best, its just speculation. Theories that are not only unproven, but unprovable-- at least by means of the instrumentation we have available today.

Even strict physiological medicine isn't quite science-- but it usually comes extremely close, which I respect immensely. Psychiatry, however, doesn't even attempt to fit itself within the scientific paradigm: they simply act "sciencey" and use long words and jargon to appear legitimate.

Their drug-studies are obviously bogus, as they readily admit there is no objective criteria by which to evaluate a "mental disorder". Its not like administering a diabetic test subject insulin and then subsequently evaluating their blood glucose content to determine a concrete logical and mathematical correlation. Psychiatric studies rely on completely subjective criteria. You cannot rely on the content of those studies to demonstrate anything, their very basis is fallacious.

Haha I'm gunna stop typing now, as I know I've said my piece a few times over now. I'm not asking anyone to agree with me, just to consider what I've said and look into the matter yourself before buying into their theories.

 

[dragonslayer428]

I too was a bit put off by how so many people here basically said "there is absolutely no reason to take ssri's" fuck that, if you really need them they can truly help.

I totally agree. Unless you've been clinically depressed or have an anxiety disorder (not just anxiety), then don't knock SSRI's. They saved my life and know many others that wouldn't be able to function properly without them.

 

[theemptycanvas]

To the OP, SSRI's are pretty powerful drugs and if you're experiencing depression that isn't making your life livable, then I would say that there are better routes, like CBT.

I do realize in the end that they are all chemicals and have different modes of action. But I am one of those people who constantly goes from "mind over matter" to "some people are just imbalanced." I think it might be a mix of both in the end though. The first time I went to a psychiatrist, I knew it was complete bullshit and that it's so easy to be misdiagnosed with a condition you don't even have in the first place.

In life, I think it's necessary to feel pain and suffering, this is how we determine what we like and don't like. It seems that many of my close friends who either take second genoration anti-psychotics or a commonly prescribed SSRI have a void in them that they always talk to me about. The void is that drive to aspire to be someone and not just work your whole life through and die. If you're constantly in the middle and don't feel extreme happiness or sadness (we all suffer), then there is a certain level of content where you feel alright about anything and this I think clouds the soul into what it really means to "know thyself."

Now I could be wrong about this and this could turn out to be completely irreverent, but I see a certain amount of truth in this. In other countries, you don't see medication like this prescribed as much (although it is rising). What did people do before they had psychiatric treatment system? I think there is a link between what we perceive to be mental illness and creativity. In America, we don't value creative thinking as much as we do efficiency. I don't see think as a conspiracy theory, but it does make sense sociologically and it's why I stopped taking Adderall when I started to learn about the history of treating "ADHD" and depression. I am sure in one respect, I do have ADHD but in another maybe we just can't keep up with this overly demanding life style that adds up to almost nothing.

I wont argue about how SSRIs have saved life's, because they have. One thing though that I learned in a couple of my undergrad courses about anti-depressants and they're medical use is that they should be used in conjunction with therapy to train the mind with different modes of thinking instead of just using a drug to feel better.

 

[Roger&Me]

Yeah ADHD is a glaring example of something being really wrong in society. What kind of society finds it appropriate to drug children as young as 5 years old with amphetamines, just so they don't piss their teachers off at school?

edit-- LOL this train has officially left the tracks, sorry 'bout that guys.

 

[theemptycanvas]

Yeah ADHD is a glaring example of something being really wrong in society. What kind of society finds it appropriate to drug children as young as 5 years old with amphetamines, just so they don't piss their teachers off at school?

edit-- LOL this train has officially left the tracks, sorry 'bout that guys.

Better yet, what kid wants to sit in class for 7-8 hours a day and then do homework for another 3-4 or maybe more? What it comes down to for me is doing work that is increasingly unrewarding to me, and taking a pill that makes it rewarding. That was one of the factors in making me change. Sorry to get a little off topic there!

 

[B9]

People don't usually develop symptoms of depression randomly without cause. Usually there are a multitude of lifestyle and environmental factors contributing to their problem. Most people can be cured by consulting a nutritionist, exercising, meditating, and abstaining from habits like smoking and drug use.

The big difference is that it's so much easier to pop a pill & then just get on with your life I think that's the big appeal to most folks. Nutrition is good - exercise & meditation are better still ( unless you're starving to death in some third world country which we'll assume you're not coz you're reading a PC screen) - BUT that takes time & effort & there is no instant reward - trust me on this latter point - the lack of instant reward can be a huge hurdle for the long term drug user to overcome & TBVH even the intermittent use of drugs doesn't help one achieve the long term goal. If the way you live your life fucks your head then change the way you live your life I suppose.
However I can only speak for myself AD meds have helped people I know & not helped others.

Right I'll be off to change my life the wholesome way & leave you drug fiends to argue ceaselessly about the length of string beans - I may post a definitive answer to that question at some point in future - so stay tuned to expand your mind :D

 

[Teotzlcoatl]

Yeah ADHD is a glaring example of something being really wrong in society. What kind of society finds it appropriate to drug children as young as 5 years old with amphetamines, just so they don't piss their teachers off at school?

I'm seeing some potential for you guys after all

good post!!!

 

[Delta-9-THC]

Exactly. When you are depressed it can be hard to motivate yourself to get out of bed let alone to make significant lifestyle changes like exercising and eating healthy. Which is why many people go with the meds without exhausting these other healthier options first. The problem is that a lot of psychiatrists facilitate this by being incredibly liberal in scripting powerful ADs to anyone who comes in their office.

 

[Mercury (Hg)]

Exactly. When you are depressed it can be hard to motivate yourself to get out of bed let alone to make significant lifestyle changes like exercising and eating healthy. Which is why many people go with the meds without exhausting these other healthier options. The problem is that a lot of psychiatrists facilitate this by being incredibly liberal in scripting powerful ADs to anyone who comes in their office.

Those who are truly in need of antidepressents can't be helped any other way.

The same doctor that prescribed me Venlafaxine told my friend to "smoke pot" every once in a while. The difference between us, is, I'm unstable, regardless of anything that may be happening in my life, whereas he's experiencing his parents divorcing.

 

[Delta-9-THC]

I completely understand that. I wasn't trying to say otherwise.

 

[chaosbydesign]

SAMe/TMG increases endogenous DMT, which helps put the sparkle back in life, I believe low levels of DMT can be a major factor in some forms of depression, especially for the personality type that seeks and enjoys 'peak experiences' of the type often offered by psychedelics.

Hmm, I've never thought of that before. I've been depressed (I may have something like bipolar, but I am not diagnosed with it... not that I'm sure that matters anyway : p) and tripping always seems to help me a lot. Melatonin helps too, probably just because it's a tryptamine and leads to increased DMT production. I tried taking St. John's Wort for a brief period of time a couple years ago, but it didn't seem to do anything. Perhaps I could have low levels of DMT.

Thank you, I'll have to read up on this now. :]]

 

[permastoned]

mirtazapine isn't an ssri

MDMA won't work

Psychedelics will all work but you will need to take more, and the empathogenic ones (2C-B etc) will not be empathogenic anymore.

Amphetamines will work.

 

[Cornishman]

Related reading -
Drug induced depression and SSRI's: http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=486388

 

[csrpj]

fact is, some people are better off with SSRIs, but, there's are much better options to start with first!

my doc wants me to go on SSRIs as well, but i'm exploring other options. everything i know just makes me feel wrong about taking it.

samE is an option. i'm actually on my second second week, and i'm liking it!

for a more serous antidepressant/anti-anxiety agent, i will start agomelatine in the near future.

 

[Anon85]

Those who are truly in need of antidepressents can't be helped any other way.

The same doctor that prescribed me Venlafaxine told my friend to "smoke pot" every once in a while. The difference between us, is, I'm unstable, regardless of anything that may be happening in my life, whereas he's experiencing his parents divorcing.

I agree and your example is a night & day difference, SSRI's in your case may work very well for you (Don't know your history) but careless to prescribe for your friend.

Some people don't totally grasp real depression, having a bad day/week/month is a joke for someone with real depression.

SSRI's are over prescribed and handed out like candy in America, this is the negative response you will get from people in general about them. It's a serious drug for a serious problem that can't be solved via any other means.