Opioids Do you think 90% of your opiate(heroin,oxys,meth,subs) wds are just in your head??

[Brian242]

Hell. No.

 

[macd610]

That somebody should be strapped to a bed and given 3x/day shots of diacetyl morphine for two months, and then try some meditation and see how far that gets them.

/thread

This Is probably sick, but I can't help but laugh when I picture this actually taking place....strapping someone to a bed, shooting them up with drugs 3 * a day then suddenly kicking them out after 2 months and telling them to go meditate....Haha!
I understand the point of this post completely, it's just comical to picture for some reason

 

[BlueHues]

^they can do that shit to me anytime they want! You don't have to strap me to the bed I'll just come back 3x a day!

 

[roundnround]

I don't know if this has anything to do with it, but you mentioned shooting up...Keep in mind I have NOTHING against that, but it's not something I have ever done. I assume that ROA hits alot harder and faster than taking pain meds by mouth?
In addition, while I realize I am physically dependent on my meds, I take them for chronic pain. So when I run out, I have a whole lot of physical pain to deal with on top of the pain of withdrawals...maybe it's just due to the fact that it takes awhile to get the "regular" amount of the drug into my system?
Who knows...again, this is not something that happens all the time. When it does happen though, it's awful.

i completely understand what you mean and it happens to me almost monthly.. im a pain patient and my dose wasnt enough so instead of telling my dr and out of fear of flagging myself as a pill seeker... i decided to pop a few more a day yada yada... it always takes me a few days to "get right" i think it might have to do with the fact that my dr mentioned before he never wants me to be at a level 10 pain cuz its hard to remedy it.. kinda like once im back in pain it takes more to get me out of pain... i wonder if instead if on your 1st day back on if u took the equivalent of 3 days doses in one day for the 1st day if that would speed things along to u feeling normal faster? i think it has to do with having to have a certain level of it in our system basically whether it be built up to that or instantaneous... as far as withdrawls things i have noticed.. if i find out i can get some i instantly feel somewhat better to the point that i have "scored" from a friend yet waited til the next day to dose instead of that night because so much of the mental torture was already over with... also my withdraws do in fact get easier every time without a doubt... 1st time i almost went to the emergency room convinced i was going to die from with withdrawl and didnt care if my dr said otherwise... now a days i live thru it (i think it has a lot to do with my initial theraputic dose was generous and i was getting high and as my tolerance built up i dont get high now anyways so im not missing much) i have definitely found that tramadol does wonders for withdrawl from killing every single physical symptom to most mental ones as well... i think the tramadol ssri is what does it for me its like im in pain but im less pissed off that im in pain which helps a lot believe it or not... ps i thought i ran out and did a tramadol/tizanidine day then found 8 i hid on myself lol im gonna try to see if i can go tl thurs without taking a roxi 15.. ive never abstained from them while i had them so its kind of a mental game im playing ... we'll see how that goes

 

[tokenname]

This Is probably sick, but I can't help but laugh when I picture this actually taking place....strapping someone to a bed, shooting them up with drugs 3 * a day then suddenly kicking them out after 2 months and telling them to go meditate....Haha!
I understand the point of this post completely, it's just comical to picture for some reason

you're both sick.
but +1.

 

[Choosing_Positive]

I also think that is very strange (to the guy who said that it takes him three days to get well). In my experience, it can sometimes take me a half hour so after shooting heroin to feel totally well if I was very sick when I did it because my body was jsut so out of wack that it cant instantly go back to normal. But three days? How can that be?

I know what he is talking about, you take your last pills, the wd"s come on and you make it a week (feeling shitty the whole week cuz the pills have had time to build up in your system, through oral ROA), and you get your script, it can take three days no prob for those pills to build back up in your system, to where you feel "normal."

It is different with heroin, which has a short half-life compared to a lot of other opiates, that combined with the ROA of choice for most heroin users, creates a serious roller coaster, sick and well, "ride...."

 

[EEhouseEE]

Many things in this world are just "in your head" the mind is a powerful thing...can make you create problems out of nothing.....but i mean in case of withdrawal its def both physical and mental...what kind of question is this haha...?

 

[macd610]

I know what he is talking about, you take your last pills, the wd"s come on and you make it a week (feeling shitty the whole week cuz the pills have had time to build up in your system, through oral ROA), and you get your script, it can take three days no prob for those pills to build back up in your system, to where you feel "normal."

It is different with heroin, which has a short half-life compared to a lot of other opiates, that combined with the ROA of choice for most heroin users, creates a serious roller coaster, sick and well, "ride...."

Not that it matters, but I am a girl...I hate by username, wish I could change it lol
Thanks for the recent posts, by the way.
Cat

 

[Wolfmans_BrothEr]

There is a substantial mental component but it's pointless to attempt to quantify that because it varies substantially between individuals.

For most people, the more times they withdraw, the worse the Withdrawals get regardless of if that is disproportionate to their use - it's basic classical conditioning: the more times you experience aversive stimuli, the more you will become afraid of it so your fear will make the physical symptoms worse and worse over time .

With that said, just because there's a substantial mental component doesn't mean you can just will away the symptoms (or rather the severity of them) any more than Pavlov's dogs can choose not to salivate at the sound of a bell. You are training yourself to have worse and worse withdrawals.

On top of this, the more mentally addicted you become, the more you try to convince yourself you HAVE to use. This is done through many forms of rationalization, one of which is convincing yourself that the withdrawal will be worse than it is so you will be too afraid to stop and this fear physically makes the withdrawal worse. You often see this in people who withdraw after single uses long after being physically dependent - they haven't used enough to become dependent again but they trigger their fear of withdrawal as well as their addictive processes trying to convince them to keep using.

I think he hit it right on the head, I came home after being clean for three months, used kratom of all things when I got back, and woke up in w.d the next day

I also feel that wd is somewhat mental because i find if I start some sort of activity (depending on what it is) alot of my symptoms will seem to disappear while I'm busy, but come back when I sit in front of the tv. Also if I have dope on hand, I won't feel nearly as bad because I know I can get high immediately if I start feeling like shit, allowing me to hold off

The mind is a crazy thing

 

[Cane2theLeft]

^ I was always the same way with anything I was dependent on - if I was low on cigarettes or quitting, I would be fine if I had a couple or even just one and I could abstain and go days or weeks but as soon as I smoked that last one, all of the sudden I couldn't get it out of my head.

I have friends who are the opposite though (which seems more common in addicts) where if they have it on hand, they can not NOT take it and are not at ease just knowing it's available to them and they have to dispose of that availability to have any shot at abstinence.

I think that's a really interesting disparity in personality styles between a lot of substance users.

 

[macd610]

^ I was always the same way with anything I was dependent on - if I was low on cigarettes or quitting, I would be fine if I had a couple or even just one and I could abstain and go days or weeks but as soon as I smoked that last one, all of the sudden I couldn't get it out of my head.

I have friends who are the opposite though (which seems more common in addicts) where if they have it on hand, they can not NOT take it and are not at ease just knowing it's available to them and they have to dispose of that availability to have any shot at abstinence.

I think that's a really interesting disparity in personality styles between a lot of substance users.

I agree, Cane. The first drug I became physically dependent on was hydrocodone. When my addiction got to its height I remember taking more than I really wanted or needed, praying for them to be gone somewhere inside. But once they were I'd totally flipped out.
I think that this thread has is stablished the point that there is a most definite physical side of withdrawal that cannot be denied.
At The same time, I need to stop being so defensive whenever anybody brings up the psychological aspect, because they're definitely is much of that involved. The difficult part may be due to the fact that there are so many varying, conflicting things going on in this area...
I've had a bit much, sorry if this makes no sense

 

[Wolfmans_BrothEr]

I have friends who are the opposite though (which seems more common in addicts) where if they have it on hand, they can not NOT take it and are not at ease just knowing it's available to them and they have to dispose of that availability to have any shot at abstinence.

What I'm saying is if I already had it on hand, I can usually go a few hours in the morning or etc before taking it, simply because I know if it ever become unbearable I can relieve myself whenever I want. However I do agree with simply knowing the drug is easily available, I highly doubt I could stay clean unless I have absolutely no means of buying it or getting there to obtain it

That's always the way I got clean off opiates was either losing all my connects and money and not being able to get it no matter how badly I wanted it, or going to a place where I knew no one and couldn't obtain my doc. The temptation of knowing its readily accessible is often too much to handle.

For example I spent the summer getting clean in Maine, and while I would occasionally think about getting high, in the back of my mind I knew there was no real way to pick up, so that part of my brain sorta shut off. On the day I came home, even on the bus ride, I found myself craving opioids, even feeling slight w.d symptoms as u mentioned before

 

[PinK~cloud]

They're definitely real and present, but I'm a firm believer in the power of the mind over body. As one person stated in another thread, how many times have we thought we were in acute withdrawal only 6 hours since a dose?
Mindset has a lot to do with PAWS IMO.

 

[Crazyeighths]

IME the physical aspects are inevitable, but the mental properties have an exponentiating effect. For instance, early on in my use (before I knew much about opiate withdrawals) when I ran out of dope I obviously craved more, but the physical aspects I marked up to having the flu or some sort of sickness unrelated to the dope. Once I knew what the reason for the sickness was, it got ten times worse. The drugs were all I could focus on and the w/ds became unbearable. The power of attention is not something to be underestimated, despite the inescapable nature or the w/ds

 

[mrflowers00]

it's all in your head or brain to be exact you feel bad due to chemical imbalances in your brain and it just overall just not working right

 

[tackyspiral]

It's not mostly in your head; piloerection, high blood pressure, etc. are clear physical differences that you can't simply mentally reverse.

the detox i was at actually accused me of faking my high blood pressure while i was withdrawing
idiots its not possible to do that
my hand would twitch super bad whenev they took my blood pressure

 

[Mr.Scagnattie]

I so wish to God or whoever/whatever is up there... that it was all in my head. Because If I could have shut off my puking blood, shaking, seizing, and writhing... I would have. God knows I tried. The psychial is the psychial. In a serious addiction.. you're so sick for the first week that you can't even think "this might be mental"... You can't even get out of bed to walk three feet...

 

[diver]

I'm not sure whether what I'm about to say has been said or not, 'cause I haven't read the entire thread.
For myself, sleep is a very precarious thing, even under ideal conditions. When opioid WDs are thrown into the mix, sleep becomes an impossibility. That original angst is mental, but the overall effect of lack of sleep isn't mental, particularly when it's for more than one night... From there it tends to snowball til it becomes pure hell. Then it reaches the point where sleep dep is a bigger issue than the physical symptoms of whe WDs.
So IME the mental component of W/Ds becomes physical after a few days, just because of the insomnia element.

 

[XThexXTank]

Yeah I think a lot of its in yer head. Can't say I got much exp with withdrawl but a few weeks ago I blew 1200 on pills in just 2 weeks cut cold turkey and didn't get sick. I mean I was eatn them like a motherfucker up to 7 30s a day but the only thing after I stopped was got some chills and shaking that's about it and the want to do more.

If you get yer mind off the drugs than its a whole lot easier.

 

[Mr.Scagnattie]

Yeah I think a lot of its in yer head. Can't say I got much exp with withdrawl but a few weeks ago I blew 1200 on pills in just 2 weeks cut cold turkey and didn't get sick. I mean I was eatn them like a motherfucker up to 7 30s a day but the only thing after I stopped was got some chills and shaking that's about it and the want to do more.

If you get yer mind off the drugs than its a whole lot easier.

Sorry, but you can't compare the "withdrawal" from a 2 week pill habit to something like the kick from a years long heroin addiction... It's not even in the same ball park..